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Video Game Industry Thread: February part II is done, go to the next thread

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Posts

  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    I think Steam does a good job of advertising games. I'm not sure why piracy wouldn't work effectively as used sales if they are as common as developers claim.
    If you want a better comparison: AC Rev is still on Steam's top seller lists, but no where to be seen on console top seller lists.
    AC Rev had a 50 percent off sale early in the month. Steam has shown that sales can increase sales after the sale is over. The steam best seller list usually is mostly titles with a strong fanbase like Terraria, recently release games, the really fucking huge games like Call of Duty, or games involved in a sale.

    There was also that recent bug where some people could get a bazillion AC Rev coupons by logging in and out over and over again. I imagine that helped.

  • UltimanecatUltimanecat Registered User regular
    As someone who is joining the armed services and likely will be stationed in various boring places with no or spotty internet access, I find the idea of needing any sort of connection to play games sort of dickish.

    Not like fighting forces are an astoundingly huge demographic, but I'm pretty sure video and computer games are some of the most popular ways to pass the time while serving.

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  • EVOLEVOL Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    I'm going to be really interested in how people will react to not being able to play PS3 PSN shit on the PS4.

    Hooo boy, I don't know if it'd actually hurt the PS4's sales in the long run since the average consumer will probably not care enough, but there'd be tons of rage over that. I would be one of said ragers.

  • SponkSponk boglinus minimus Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    You know, I get the complaints about the whole pay-to-sort-of-play thing. That's pretty shitty.

    But I'm not sure I get the complaints about how things are unlockable anyway. Even if they are long and grindy. Especially in light of numerous games where folks complain about how damned easy everything is.


    Oh, and this is the direction games are headed in. So enjoy!

    Because they're SOOOO DIFFICULT. Never mind that they're not, people who don't even play the game say they are!

    They're not? Have you played it? How much time did it take you to unlock one course?

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  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    Nintendo has never really worried about the used market. People pretty much keep their games forever and the prices never go anywhere. Half the time I'm not even sure its due to any quality, so much as people are just used to it being 'how it is' and acting accordingly. I mean I recently sold off my copy of Mario Kart DS and I think I still got 20$ for it.

    lmao excuse me? This is how you can tell that gamers today did not experience the NES days and/or have short memories. Nintendo never worried about the used market? The same nintendo which tried to make the sales of used games illegal in the US routinely throughout the 80's? The same Nintendo which dreamed up satellaview as a method which would permanently remove the option for resale? The same Nintendo which, as recently as 2009, claimed that their customers don't like used games, and that it's in their best interest that Nintendo negate the possibility of someone "accidentally" buying a used game?

    Ha!

  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Nintendo has never really worried about the used market. People pretty much keep their games forever and the prices never go anywhere. Half the time I'm not even sure its due to any quality, so much as people are just used to it being 'how it is' and acting accordingly. I mean I recently sold off my copy of Mario Kart DS and I think I still got 20$ for it.

    Hah, I actually got $30 for mine.
    Brainiac 8 wrote: »
    Xenoblade Chronicles review...I forgot this was out next week. I can't wait!

    http://www.gametrailers.com/video/review-xenoblade-chronicles/728548

    Oh yeah, I still need to preorder that. Maybe I'll do it tonight.

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  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    I'm going to be really interested in how people will react to not being able to play PS3 PSN shit on the PS4.

    Digital sales, good for the industry! Huzzah!

    Seriously though, Sony won't care, and I doubt they reimberse. Like I've said many times, you don't own the digital code, so if it's not bc, and Sony won't work with you...hey, it's their right, you're just renting the code for as long as they let you!

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  • Lindsey LohanLindsey Lohan Registered User regular
    I would be pretty ticked at anti-used game stuff as well. I would imagine as ticked as we are as consumers there would be some pretty intense meetings w/ a console maker and Gamestop if that were to happen as well. I get that Sony/MS want to reduce what they see as a loss, but if it comes at the expense of relationships/promotions from the biggest specialty retailer of games I think they'd back down a bit.

    Do you really want every Gamestop employee telling every mom/dad out buying a new console that the WiiU is the better console because it allows you to trade in games your kids get bored of? That's exactly what Gamestop would do if the PS4/720 have anti-used game measures in place.

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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    vsove wrote: »
    You know, my game collection this current generation is significantly larger than my game collection in any previous generation. Losing backwards compatibility would suck - particularly since I imagine that'll mean no backwards compatibility with the PS2 or PSX games, either. And I really don't want to have to keep multiple consoles setup. I only have so many shelves on my entertainment center.

    Or, and I know I'm probably in the minority here, you could:

    A. Buy fewer games.
    B. Play the games you do buy.
    C. Move on when the industry does.

  • vsovevsove ....also yes. Registered User regular
    vsove wrote: »
    You know, my game collection this current generation is significantly larger than my game collection in any previous generation. Losing backwards compatibility would suck - particularly since I imagine that'll mean no backwards compatibility with the PS2 or PSX games, either. And I really don't want to have to keep multiple consoles setup. I only have so many shelves on my entertainment center.

    Or, and I know I'm probably in the minority here, you could:

    A. Buy fewer games.
    B. Play the games you do buy.
    C. Move on when the industry does.

    I do play the games I buy. And I like to go back and play older games too - Demon's Souls, for example, and both Dead Rising games. Or, going further back, I'll sometimes put Amplitude in because, hey, it's a non-plastic instrument rhythm game and I enjoy it tremendously.

    I really don't think the desire to continue playing these games is unreasonable.

    WATCH THIS SPACE.
  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Here we go!
    Media Create Sales: Week 12, 2012 (Mar 19 - Mar 25)

    01./00. [3DS] Kid Icarus: Uprising <ACT> (Nintendo) {2012.03.22} (¥5.800) - 132.526 / NEW
    02./00. [PSP] Black Panther 2: Yakuza Ashura Chapter <ADV> (Sega) {2012.03.22} (¥6.279) - 104.937 / NEW
    03./01. [NDS] Pokemon + Nobunaga's Ambition <SLG> (Pokemon Co.) {2012.03.17} (¥5.800) - 65.046 / 237.073 (-62%)
    04./00. [PS3] Devil May Cry HD Collection <ACT> (Capcom) {2012.03.22} (¥4.990) - 43.791 / NEW
    05./00. [PS3] Ninja Gaiden 3 # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2012.03.22} (¥8.190) - 29.797 / NEW
    06./00. [PS3] Attouteki Yuugi: Mugen Souls # <RPG> (Compile Heart) {2012.03.22} (¥7.329) - 23.004 / NEW
    07./09. [3DS] Monster Hunter 3G # <ACT> (Capcom) {2011.12.10} (¥5.800) - 22.402 / 1.337.122 (+32%)
    08./08. [3DS] Mario Kart 7 <RCE> (Nintendo) {2011.12.01} (¥4.800) - 20.890 / 1.601.979 (+22%)
    09./11. [3DS] Super Mario 3D Land # <ACT> (Nintendo) {2011.11.03} (¥4.800) - 20.305 / 1.439.760 (+29%)
    10./02. [PSP] Shining Blade <RPG> (Sega) {2012.03.15} (¥6.279) - 19.032 / 141.289 (-84%)
    11./00. [PSP] Hakuoki: Bakumatsu Musou Roku # <ADV> (Idea Factory) {2012.03.22} (¥6.090) - 17.817 / NEW
    12./10. [3DS] Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games <SPT> (Nintendo) {2012.03.01} (¥4.800) - 16.731 / 99.656 (+3%)
    13./04. [PS3] One Piece: Pirate Warriors # <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games) {2012.03.01} (¥8.190) - 16.243 / 796.751 (-53%)
    14./00. [PSP] Fairy Tail: Zelef Kakusei <ACT> (Konami) {2012.03.22} (¥5.800) - 15.377 / NEW
    15./06. [3DS] Hatsune Miku and Future Stars: Project Mirai # <ACT> (Sega) {2012.03.08} (¥6.090) - 11.334 / 116.351 (-38%)
    16./12. [3DS] Harvest Moon: The Land of Origin <SLG> (Marvelous AQL) {2012.02.23} (¥5.040) - 9.889 / 147.106 (-20%)
    17./00. [PSV] Little Busters! Converted Edition <ADV> (Prototype) {2012.03.22} (¥6.090) - 8.372 / NEW
    18./03. [PSP] Puella Magi Madoka Magica Portable # <RPG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2012.03.15} (¥6.480) - 8.138 / 70.546 (-87%)
    19./00. [PSP] Hanaoni: Yume no Tsudzuki # <ADV> (Idea Factory) {2012.03.22} (¥6.090) - 8.023 / NEW
    20./00. [PS3] Do Love Me Seriously! R <ADV> (Minato Station) {2012.03.22} (¥8.190) - 6.834 / NEW


    Top 20

    3DS - 7
    PSP - 6
    PS3 - 5
    NDS - 1
    PSV - 1

    HARDWARE

    Code:
    |System | This Week | Last Week | Last Year | YTD | Last YTD | LTD |
    | 3DS | 94.011 | 64.017 | 50.710 | 1.118.524 | 792.954 | 5.400.667 |
    | PS3 | 25.750 | 27.900 | 28.973 | 396.851 | 355.171 | 8.033.236 |
    | PSP # | 19.875 | 18.633 | 51.095 | 259.618 | 584.585 | 18.989.002 |
    | PSV | 10.302 | 10.021 | | 190.399 | | 630.385 |
    | WII | 9.270 | 8.127 | 11.808 | 150.875 | 208.918 | 12.314.096 |
    | NDS # | 1.836 | 1.470 | 19.094 | 26.781 | 311.042 | 32.835.267 |
    | PS2 | 1.333 | 1.165 | 1.862 | 13.365 | 21.746 | 21.787.472 |
    | 360 | 1.084 | 1.145 | 1.963 | 16.859 | 30.026 | 1.552.904 |
    | ALL | 163.461 | 132.478 | 165.505 | 2.173.272 | 2.304.442 | 101.543.029 |
    | DSiLL | 1.058 | 853 | 9.760 | 15.362 | 160.938 | 2.309.681 |
    | DSi | 778 | 617 | 8.604 | 11.419 | 134.713 | 5.845.469 |
    | PSP | 19.875 | 18.633 | 50.479 | 259.618 | 571.782 | 18.813.015 |

    Wow at Kid Icarus, and it seems to have bumped the system too. Vita still holding at 10k, when will it finally bite the bullet and drop below?

    Edit: Also the holy trinity are all back in the top ten after SM3DL dropped out last week.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    I really do wonder if BC, at least for downloadable stuff, is becoming a bigger deal now that smartphones have trained people to be able to run their older crap on their newer phones. Not to mention that the 3DS and Vita are BC with games tied to individual accounts. And there's the psychological factor -- "well, I might not be able to play the PS2 game on the PS3, but at least I own it."

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • EVOLEVOL Registered User regular
    Good to see KI doing well. I was a bit worried that it's performance would be middling.

    And Vita actually bumped up by 300 units? /the end is nigh

  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    Once you get past the controls and find a scheme that works for you, KI is an intense, content rich action game. Good lord does this game have content. The only questions is what it all means for the next Super Smash Brothers. I can only fathom.

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  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    edited March 2012
    If Sony doesn't get Motorstorm Arctic Edge (And to a lesser extent Hot Shots Tennis) back onto the PSN store by the end of the summer, I'm done with 'em. There's a handful of games left that I'd like to purchase for my PSP Go but past that I don't think they'll be getting any more of my money.

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  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Registered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    Once you get past the controls and find a scheme that works for you, KI is an intense, content rich action game. Good lord does this game have content. The only questions is what it all means for the next Super Smash Brothers. I can only fathom.

    Sakurai is one of those developers that just can't stop himself from adding everything plus ten kitchen sinks into his games. SSBB was loaded with content, and even then it had more.

    Kid Icarus is the same, just stuffed with stuff to do and see. I mean even his achievement grid, it's huge, and when you get to a certain point, you find out that it's not the only one, as you suddenly unlock ANOTHER HUGE achievement grid.

    The next Smash Bros is going to be crazy, and I can't wait. 8->

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  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Brainiac 8 wrote: »
    Cantido wrote: »
    Once you get past the controls and find a scheme that works for you, KI is an intense, content rich action game. Good lord does this game have content. The only questions is what it all means for the next Super Smash Brothers. I can only fathom.

    Sakurai is one of those developers that just can't stop himself from adding everything plus ten kitchen sinks into his games. SSBB was loaded with content, and even then it had more.

    Kid Icarus is the same, just stuffed with stuff to do and see. I mean even his achievement grid, it's huge, and when you get to a certain point, you find out that it's not the only one, as you suddenly unlock ANOTHER HUGE achievement grid.

    The next Smash Bros is going to be crazy, and I can't wait. 8->

    This so called Sakurai person. I like him. Forever. He should be a consultant for Borderlands 2. Then that game will destroy the universe.

    Cantido on
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  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    vsove wrote: »
    You know, my game collection this current generation is significantly larger than my game collection in any previous generation. Losing backwards compatibility would suck - particularly since I imagine that'll mean no backwards compatibility with the PS2 or PSX games, either. And I really don't want to have to keep multiple consoles setup. I only have so many shelves on my entertainment center.

    Or, and I know I'm probably in the minority here, you could:

    A. Buy fewer games.
    B. Play the games you do buy.
    C. Move on when the industry does.

    You really think it's unreasonable to ask for the option to play the games I've given the industry thousands of dollars for over this generation?

    The fact that Sony slapped PS2 owners in the face by removing PS2 compatibility from the PS3 still stings for a lot of people. It made people who spent hundreds or thousands of dollars on a large PS2 library feel completely insulted, and there was no need for it.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    Nintendo has never really worried about the used market. People pretty much keep their games forever and the prices never go anywhere. Half the time I'm not even sure its due to any quality, so much as people are just used to it being 'how it is' and acting accordingly. I mean I recently sold off my copy of Mario Kart DS and I think I still got 20$ for it.

    lmao excuse me? This is how you can tell that gamers today did not experience the NES days and/or have short memories. Nintendo never worried about the used market? The same nintendo which tried to make the sales of used games illegal in the US routinely throughout the 80's? The same Nintendo which dreamed up satellaview as a method which would permanently remove the option for resale? The same Nintendo which, as recently as 2009, claimed that their customers don't like used games, and that it's in their best interest that Nintendo negate the possibility of someone "accidentally" buying a used game?

    Ha!

    I'm sorry, should I have prefaced that with, 'Since the advent of the modern era'? Because I mean, if we want to go all the way back, then Mario isn't even a nintendo exclusive franchise omgomg!!!111111

    Ancient history matters very little in any modern context, almost all the people involved are out of the picture and almost every piece of bureaucracy from that era is more or less gone.

    I can't find any mention of wanting to negate used games, there is this:
    "We just think it's a bad idea," insists NoA president Reggie Fils-Aime

    Nintendo of America's Reggie Fils-Aime has said the company does not believe second hand game sales are in the best interest of consumers.

    He said that consumers prefer brand new products, and claimed that sales of second hand goods in other entertainment mediums has not been successful.

    "We don’t believe used games are in the best interest of the consumer" Fils-Aime told Venture Beat.

    "We have products that consumers want to hold onto. They want to play all of the levels of a Zelda game and unlock all of the levels. A game like Personal Trainer Cooking has a long life."

    He continued: "Describe another form of entertainment that has a vibrant used goods market. Used books have never taken off. You don’t see businesses selling used music CDs or used DVDs. Why? The consumer likes having a brand-new experience and reliving it over and over again. If you create the right type of experience, that also happens in videogames."

    Fils-Aime suggested that some retailers can't make the second hand business model work, despite trying to copy competitors who have made it successful.

    "We just think it’s a bad idea," he insisted. "The one retailer that has a substantial business in this has figured out a way that is effective for the consumer.

    "That’s tough for other retailers experimenting with this, in part because their employees don’t have the expertise in this market."

    But that's also Reggie, you might as well stick him up there on the same platform as Kevin Butler, as he's mostly just some kind of PR figurehead with a cute title most of the time. The things he usually says are 90% bullshit. Tempered with HYPE

  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    Actually there was a need for it. Sony has lost more money on the PS3 then any other venture they have made in their history in the console market. They needed to get PS3's costs down as quickly as possible, and removing the PS2 parts was a good start.

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  • Lindsey LohanLindsey Lohan Registered User regular
    I think it's really important to find a way to have backwards compatibility this round. Last gen to this gen is a pretty big jump if you have a HD TV set. I really doubt the next generation jump is going to feel quite so substantial. Even if a game in HD looks twice as good as something like Uncharted will the general public jump on that console and give up their past library that look as good as this generation does?

    People tolerated the PS2 compatibility going away because by then they had moved on to how awesome HD games looked - I wonder without that major technical advance in place if people will be as understanding.

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  • Linespider5Linespider5 You could have just sent a thank you note. Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    vsove wrote: »
    You know, my game collection this current generation is significantly larger than my game collection in any previous generation. Losing backwards compatibility would suck - particularly since I imagine that'll mean no backwards compatibility with the PS2 or PSX games, either. And I really don't want to have to keep multiple consoles setup. I only have so many shelves on my entertainment center.

    Or, and I know I'm probably in the minority here, you could:

    A. Buy fewer games.
    B. Play the games you do buy.
    C. Move on when the industry does.

    You really think it's unreasonable to ask for the option to play the games I've given the industry thousands of dollars for over this generation?

    The fact that Sony slapped PS2 owners in the face by removing PS2 compatibility from the PS3 still stings for a lot of people. It made people who spent hundreds or thousands of dollars on a large PS2 library feel completely insulted, and there was no need for it.

    Not to mention that those initial PS3s were rife with disc drive issues and such. A lot of people who had the original PS3 ended up replacing it with a newer model anyway, so they didn't even get to keep the feature they paid for.

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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    vsove wrote: »
    vsove wrote: »
    You know, my game collection this current generation is significantly larger than my game collection in any previous generation. Losing backwards compatibility would suck - particularly since I imagine that'll mean no backwards compatibility with the PS2 or PSX games, either. And I really don't want to have to keep multiple consoles setup. I only have so many shelves on my entertainment center.

    Or, and I know I'm probably in the minority here, you could:

    A. Buy fewer games.
    B. Play the games you do buy.
    C. Move on when the industry does.

    I do play the games I buy. And I like to go back and play older games too - Demon's Souls, for example, and both Dead Rising games. Or, going further back, I'll sometimes put Amplitude in because, hey, it's a non-plastic instrument rhythm game and I enjoy it tremendously.

    I really don't think the desire to continue playing these games is unreasonable.

    You said yourself you have more games this generation than you did the last one. Theoretically, you could end up with more games the next generation, right? If you accumulate new games for whatever the current generation is, then you will simply have less time for the older games. Period.

    So, what now? Do you take, say, 10% of the current gen games and put them aside as 'must-replay' for the next gen? Do you really think you'll find yourself playing these older games on such a consistent basis that you can't live without BC or having the older console connected all the time? Would it be such a hassle in your life to take that PS2 and put it in the closet until you get that hankering to play a game that is ten years old...in between all the sweetness of all those new gen games you're playing, of course.

    No. It's not unreasonable. But the sacrifice you might make in the face of no BC is hardly the most inconvenient fucking thing you'll ever have to face.

    However, if you're going to make the argument that you still play older games, how about you not name three of four from the current generation that you apparently play all the time. It's not such a burden if you already have the systems set up, is it?
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    You really think it's unreasonable to ask for the option to play the games I've given the industry thousands of dollars for over this generation?

    The fact that Sony slapped PS2 owners in the face by removing PS2 compatibility from the PS3 still stings for a lot of people. It made people who spent hundreds or thousands of dollars on a large PS2 library feel completely insulted, and there was no need for it.

    Really? Slap in the face? The potential to have spent all that money and gotten enjoyment at the time is a slap in the face when you can no longer play them on the new hardware? Really?

    You really want to insist that you wasted your money on the games you bought just because the new consoles can't play them? And that is more reasonable?

    Okay then. Hope things work out for you.

  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    vsove wrote: »
    You know, my game collection this current generation is significantly larger than my game collection in any previous generation. Losing backwards compatibility would suck - particularly since I imagine that'll mean no backwards compatibility with the PS2 or PSX games, either. And I really don't want to have to keep multiple consoles setup. I only have so many shelves on my entertainment center.

    Or, and I know I'm probably in the minority here, you could:

    A. Buy fewer games.
    B. Play the games you do buy.
    C. Move on when the industry does.

    You really think it's unreasonable to ask for the option to play the games I've given the industry thousands of dollars for over this generation?

    The fact that Sony slapped PS2 owners in the face by removing PS2 compatibility from the PS3 still stings for a lot of people. It made people who spent hundreds or thousands of dollars on a large PS2 library feel completely insulted, and there was no need for it.

    My still regulary used NES/SNES agree that you can move on with the industry without completely abandoning what came before. Heck, I missed the N64/Gamecube entirely as I only owned PS/PS2 during those generations, so the bc and VC on the Wii has allowed me to play gems/classics that I missed on both systems. Plus when the WiiU releases, all of the Wii Remotes I've spent money on will work with the system as will the hundreds of dollars worth of Wii games I own.

    BC is a very good thing and a plus with a new system, especially since most new systems have a huge draught at the start of it. When I first got my PS2, for the first six months of the system I mostly played PS1 games on it.

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  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    vsove wrote: »
    You know, my game collection this current generation is significantly larger than my game collection in any previous generation. Losing backwards compatibility would suck - particularly since I imagine that'll mean no backwards compatibility with the PS2 or PSX games, either. And I really don't want to have to keep multiple consoles setup. I only have so many shelves on my entertainment center.

    Or, and I know I'm probably in the minority here, you could:

    A. Buy fewer games.
    B. Play the games you do buy.
    C. Move on when the industry does.

    HA

    The industry isn't full of money grubbing dicks you're just playing games wrong!

  • AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    vsove wrote: »
    You know, my game collection this current generation is significantly larger than my game collection in any previous generation. Losing backwards compatibility would suck - particularly since I imagine that'll mean no backwards compatibility with the PS2 or PSX games, either. And I really don't want to have to keep multiple consoles setup. I only have so many shelves on my entertainment center.

    Or, and I know I'm probably in the minority here, you could:

    A. Buy fewer games.
    B. Play the games you do buy.
    C. Move on when the industry does.

    You really think it's unreasonable to ask for the option to play the games I've given the industry thousands of dollars for over this generation?

    The fact that Sony slapped PS2 owners in the face by removing PS2 compatibility from the PS3 still stings for a lot of people. It made people who spent hundreds or thousands of dollars on a large PS2 library feel completely insulted, and there was no need for it.

    Arguably, the industry allows you to keep playing those games on the system it's designed for. Backward compatibility has always been added value. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for it, but I understand platform holders not wanting to go through the hurdles of making it happen, especially if Sony's next system uses more standard architecture.

    I believe the PS3 originally did backwards compatibility by dropping a PS2 inside the system. That adds to the cost. Removing it makes a cheaper system. On software backwards compatibility, Sony saves the costs of paying internal developers to work on making old software backwards compatible one-by-one or building a whole emulator within the new system.

    I understand the desire, but I'm just not sure platform holders believe it makes good business sense outside of engendering customer loyalty. Loyalty, which while a good thing, cannot be translated directly into sales numbers.

    EDIT: Santa is saying it in his blunt manner, but yes, ultimately the games you have now will still work on the consoles they were designed for. The fact they you need to keep the old consoles is a quality-of-life issues I agree, but I'm not sure the platform holders are toying with forgoing backwards-compatibility out of malice. My guess is it's a cost-cutting measure. I do find it interesting that we decry higher prices (in the 3DS/Vita case), but are unwilling to lose features to reach a lower MSRP.

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  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    vsove wrote: »
    EVOL wrote: »
    If the protection against used game sales really happens, how big do you think the backlash will be? I know that Korea's going to be fucking livid, but what about other territories?

    Unfortunately, I think you'll see a vocal minority outraged, while the majority of the public will just shrug and carry on as always. The fact is that most people aren't likely to get up in arms about it - they'll be mildly inconvenienced, sure, and will probably show some irritation towards a Gamestop employee or something, but at the end of the day they'll just shrug and buy games brand new.

    I may be wrong - I hope I am, because while, as a developer, I would rather people buy games new, as a consumer I think it's a little too far.

    Used games typically sell for like $5 less unless the game is ass-old anyway

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    vsove wrote: »
    EVOL wrote: »
    If the protection against used game sales really happens, how big do you think the backlash will be? I know that Korea's going to be fucking livid, but what about other territories?

    Unfortunately, I think you'll see a vocal minority outraged, while the majority of the public will just shrug and carry on as always. The fact is that most people aren't likely to get up in arms about it - they'll be mildly inconvenienced, sure, and will probably show some irritation towards a Gamestop employee or something, but at the end of the day they'll just shrug and buy games brand new.

    I may be wrong - I hope I am, because while, as a developer, I would rather people buy games new, as a consumer I think it's a little too far.

    Used games typically sell for like $5 less unless the game is ass-old anyway

    ...or you shop at places other than GameStop.

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  • AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    On the used games side, while I dislike the idea of removing the ability to play used games, in practice I don't actually buy any used games anymore. Between Steam and sales are Amazon/Best Buy/Newegg/etc I generally get games for cheaper anyways. I do fear that not every online marketplace will be as generous with sales as Steam. I also fear that no used will have publishers keeping the prices of games higher for longer, whereas used sales at GameStop (seemingly) drive prices lower quicker. That last fear particularly becomes noticeable for older titles on Steam, Xbox Live, or PlayStation Network, which are generally priced at twice what you can regularly find those same games for on Ebay, Craigslist, or at GameStop.

    Essentially, competition between retailers (Amazon/Best Buy/NewEgg or Steam/GOG/Impulse) drives prices down. Move that into a model where all games comes from a single source, and prices stay higher longer because consumers have no alternative.

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  • AllforceAllforce Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    vsove wrote: »
    EVOL wrote: »
    If the protection against used game sales really happens, how big do you think the backlash will be? I know that Korea's going to be fucking livid, but what about other territories?

    Unfortunately, I think you'll see a vocal minority outraged, while the majority of the public will just shrug and carry on as always. The fact is that most people aren't likely to get up in arms about it - they'll be mildly inconvenienced, sure, and will probably show some irritation towards a Gamestop employee or something, but at the end of the day they'll just shrug and buy games brand new.

    I may be wrong - I hope I am, because while, as a developer, I would rather people buy games new, as a consumer I think it's a little too far.

    Used games typically sell for like $5 less at Gamestop unless the game is ass-old anyway

    Fixed that for you, the Internet has used sales that are WAY better on newer games, just FYI.

    Allforce on
  • JihadJesusJihadJesus Registered User regular
    The PS4/720 going with built always on/no used DRM bullshit is about the only thing that would convince me to stick with Nintendo next gen. Fuck that shit so hard.

    I really, really doubt they're actually that stupid, though.

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  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Registered User regular
    I generally only buy used if it's the only way to grab the game. Mostly when I buy a game for a classic system. For modern games though, I usually just wait until a killer deal or the game drops in price.

    Very rarely do we have to pay full price for a new game if we are patient enough to wait a bit. Heck I got Kid Icarus at launch for ten dollars cheaper than MSRP because Best Buy did a release sale on it.

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  • vsovevsove ....also yes. Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    vsove wrote: »
    vsove wrote: »
    You know, my game collection this current generation is significantly larger than my game collection in any previous generation. Losing backwards compatibility would suck - particularly since I imagine that'll mean no backwards compatibility with the PS2 or PSX games, either. And I really don't want to have to keep multiple consoles setup. I only have so many shelves on my entertainment center.

    Or, and I know I'm probably in the minority here, you could:

    A. Buy fewer games.
    B. Play the games you do buy.
    C. Move on when the industry does.

    I do play the games I buy. And I like to go back and play older games too - Demon's Souls, for example, and both Dead Rising games. Or, going further back, I'll sometimes put Amplitude in because, hey, it's a non-plastic instrument rhythm game and I enjoy it tremendously.

    I really don't think the desire to continue playing these games is unreasonable.

    You said yourself you have more games this generation than you did the last one. Theoretically, you could end up with more games the next generation, right? If you accumulate new games for whatever the current generation is, then you will simply have less time for the older games. Period.

    So, what now? Do you take, say, 10% of the current gen games and put them aside as 'must-replay' for the next gen? Do you really think you'll find yourself playing these older games on such a consistent basis that you can't live without BC or having the older console connected all the time? Would it be such a hassle in your life to take that PS2 and put it in the closet until you get that hankering to play a game that is ten years old...in between all the sweetness of all those new gen games you're playing, of course.

    No. It's not unreasonable. But the sacrifice you might make in the face of no BC is hardly the most inconvenient fucking thing you'll ever have to face.

    However, if you're going to make the argument that you still play older games, how about you not name three of four from the current generation that you apparently play all the time. It's not such a burden if you already have the systems set up, is it?

    When we're talking about a theoretical next generation, I'm quite comfortable naming older current-gen games that I still play on a regular basis - because they will become relevant in a new generation that lacks backwards compatibility. But you want examples of older games I still play? Alright - Xenosaga. Odin Sphere. Fatal Frame. GTA: San Andreas.

    I'm sorry that this is such a difficult concept for you to understand. Some of us would enjoy being able to just put our old games in a new system and not deal with hassle beyond that. I rarely have time to game anyways, and I don't particularly want to fiddle around with cables and the like every time I do, especially since my setup is such that it's extra inconvenient to do so. I'm not saying 'OH MY GOD IT'S THE WORST THING EVER', I'm just saying 'hey, from a convenience perspective, this kind of sucks.' It's not going to make me avoid buying a next gen console, but I'm allowed to express my dislike of an inconvenience.

    But hey. Why bother engaging in discussion when it's apparently far easier to simply act like an ass and reduce the entire argument to 'OH NO INCONVENIENCE HOW WILL YOU EVER SURVIVE'.

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  • BartholamueBartholamue Registered User regular
    vsove wrote: »
    EVOL wrote: »
    If the protection against used game sales really happens, how big do you think the backlash will be? I know that Korea's going to be fucking livid, but what about other territories?

    Unfortunately, I think you'll see a vocal minority outraged, while the majority of the public will just shrug and carry on as always. The fact is that most people aren't likely to get up in arms about it - they'll be mildly inconvenienced, sure, and will probably show some irritation towards a Gamestop employee or something, but at the end of the day they'll just shrug and buy games brand new.

    I may be wrong - I hope I am, because while, as a developer, I would rather people buy games new, as a consumer I think it's a little too far.

    Used games typically sell for like $5 less unless the game is ass-old anyway

    It really depends on where you're looking. I mean, Gamestop may sell used games at $5 less, but if you go to pawn shops or used game stores, they may sell them for a lot less.

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  • DiarmuidDiarmuid Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    When I was passing by my local (now closed) GAME store earlier, I noticed something was going on in there. I didn't think it was this though:

    http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/irish-game-protestors-explain-their-demands/093505
    The protestors staging sit-in protests at a number of GAME’s closed Irish stores have released a statement clarifying their demands.

    As we know, the disagreement hinges on GAME and PwC’s unwillingness to pay sacked workers for the remainder of their contract, owed holiday time or redundancy.

    The group say they will continue their protest until PwC amends its decision.

    The statement in full:


    As of the 26th of March, GAME have told all employees in the Republic of Ireland that they are being made redundant.

    The company have appointed administrators PricewaterhouseCoopers in the UK to look after the stores that are being closed in the UK but they have failed to appoint an administrator to the business in the Republic of Ireland.

    We have only been told to make a claim to the state for our statutory redundancy entitlements, a process which we have not been offered any support with and which we understand will take over a year to complete while GAME and PricewaterhouseCoopers walk away from any responsibility or liability in the Republic of Ireland, even whilst they have asked us to remove all company assets back to the UK, which we believe puts them out of reach of any Irish creditors.

    We believe GAME and PricewaterhouseCoopers are making us a burden on the Irish state and the Irish tax payer, whilst avoiding their responsibilities. Employees have not been given any of the paperwork or the information required to claim redundancy from the state. We were instead given information about UK redundancy procedures. We were informed that we would not be paid redundancy or any statutory or contractual notice period or any outstanding annual leave.

    GAME and PricewaterhouseCoopers is still trading as a going concern in the UK and we feel that they should pay us our wages and entitlements we are due including statutory notice and redundancy payments rather than forcing us to spend a year our families do not have claiming our entitlements from the Irish state and tax payers.

    GAME and PricewaterhouseCoopers can expedite there payments and allow staff to pay their mortgages and feed their families without having to wait as much as 16 months for their just entitlements.

    We, the employees of GAME Ireland, believe the way we are being treated is wholly unfair and unjust. We are now sitting in our stores as a form of protest until GAME and PricewaterhouseCoopers address our concerns.

    Diarmuid on
  • vsovevsove ....also yes. Registered User regular
    vsove wrote: »
    EVOL wrote: »
    If the protection against used game sales really happens, how big do you think the backlash will be? I know that Korea's going to be fucking livid, but what about other territories?

    Unfortunately, I think you'll see a vocal minority outraged, while the majority of the public will just shrug and carry on as always. The fact is that most people aren't likely to get up in arms about it - they'll be mildly inconvenienced, sure, and will probably show some irritation towards a Gamestop employee or something, but at the end of the day they'll just shrug and buy games brand new.

    I may be wrong - I hope I am, because while, as a developer, I would rather people buy games new, as a consumer I think it's a little too far.

    Used games typically sell for like $5 less unless the game is ass-old anyway

    It really depends on where you're looking. I mean, Gamestop may sell used games at $5 less, but if you go to pawn shops or used game stores, they may sell them for a lot less.

    Yeah, that was going to be my argument - but I think where there's going to be the most backlash is not the 'can't buy used games anymore', but rather the 'can't resell my used games anymore'. In the former case, the most common situation is that the consumer will lose out on a 5-10$ savings, since the bulk of used sales are soon after a game launches. In the latter, however, you're losing out on the ability to get money for games you no longer play - and I think that's where the backlash will inevitably come from.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    I'll come right out and say it -- as much as it inconveniences us tech nerds, BC in general hasn't been proven to be that much of an influence in system buying. When Sony removed it from the PS3, sales actually went up. Wii sales don't appear to have suffered with its removal either (the Wii boom ended well before BC was taken out). Yeah, I prefer having BC, and it's really convenient for me too. But it doesn't seem to have been an essential feature.

    I do wonder if BC for digitally-bought stuff will be more of an issue, though.

    And again, as much as we pooh-pooh the $5 used game savings Gamestop offers, the general public goes ape for it.

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  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Registered User regular
    That reminds me, I may need to search out and buy an extra old school Wii before they are all gone. Especially since it's my only way of playing GC games. D:

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  • vsovevsove ....also yes. Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    I'll come right out and say it -- as much as it inconveniences us tech nerds, BC in general hasn't been proven to be that much of an influence in system buying. When Sony removed it from the PS3, sales actually went up. Wii sales don't appear to have suffered with its removal either (the Wii boom ended well before BC was taken out). Yeah, I prefer having BC, and it's really convenient for me too. But it doesn't seem to have been an essential feature.

    I do wonder if BC for digitally-bought stuff will be more of an issue, though.

    And again, as much as we pooh-pooh the $5 used game savings Gamestop offers, the general public goes ape for it.

    Oh, I don't expect that most people will care. My argument was, at no point, 'OH MY GOD IF THEY TAKE IT OUT EVERYONE WILL HATE THEM'. It was 'well, that sucks, it's a feature I enjoy.' Which wasn't an unreasonable position to take, I assumed.

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  • Ragnar DragonfyreRagnar Dragonfyre Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    vsove wrote: »
    You know, my game collection this current generation is significantly larger than my game collection in any previous generation. Losing backwards compatibility would suck - particularly since I imagine that'll mean no backwards compatibility with the PS2 or PSX games, either. And I really don't want to have to keep multiple consoles setup. I only have so many shelves on my entertainment center.

    Or, and I know I'm probably in the minority here, you could:

    A. Buy fewer games.
    B. Play the games you do buy.
    C. Move on when the industry does.

    You really think it's unreasonable to ask for the option to play the games I've given the industry thousands of dollars for over this generation?

    The fact that Sony slapped PS2 owners in the face by removing PS2 compatibility from the PS3 still stings for a lot of people. It made people who spent hundreds or thousands of dollars on a large PS2 library feel completely insulted, and there was no need for it.

    Yeah, when this generation came about, I bought a 360 over a PS3 despite having a PSX and PS2 for exactly this reason and more. Sony treated it's consumers like crap and made shit hardware that failed far too often (I'm on my 4th PS2 and had my PSX repaired once). Ironically, I chose the console with the highest failure rate.

    Regardless, when the next generation hits I'll be looking at a lot of things before I decide which console to support initially. Looking at my massive library of 360 games, I'm seriously going to want to fire Microsoft out of a cannon if there's no BC support on their next console. Backwards compatibility could really sway my opinion.

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