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The Generational Issue

1235717

Posts

  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    shryke wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Yeah, and also the 80s seems like the time when anti-soviet propaganda was really at it's peak. Anyone who watched rocky 4 as a kid and took it seriously must have had a really warped view of the world.

    Ha, so true. Even in the late '80s, which would have been when I saw it, it was still a thing that was taken seriously. Prior to the fall of the Wall, it really was "serious business," and it's hard for me to understand that there are people who never really lived (in any cognizant manner) under that. It was definitely a whole different flavor of "ever-present enemy" than terrorists.

    It doesn't even work with terrorists for many I think. Maybe for the kids born mid-to-late 90s who won't remember a time before 9/11.

    Growing up in the 90s, there WERE no existential threats to "our way of life". The very concept is odd.

    That's why all the movies in the nineties were about aliens and meteors. They had to make up a threat.

    Cantido on
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  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard Registered User regular
    Edd wrote: »
    Well, we can make them once the boomers die. As it is they basically have a majority vote, that's how ridiculous that generation is. So, no, taxing them and such isn't even moderately feasible. Those kinds of things just wouldn't pass in the current political climate.

    Basically as said before, basically just have to watch our own asses and maybe fix things down the line when we can.

    I have no problem helping a generation or two behind me have a better country to grow up in. frankly I know I'm pretty much already fucked to mediocrity, lower middle class at best. gotta have a transitional generation occasionally, I guess. Hah.

    Didn't the boomers have a fuckton of babies? Do we not outnumber them?
    And I'd gladly vote for some younger people to get them into the government, but none run. Hell, Gen-Xers are barely getting into office now.

    Quite a few of the freshman Tea Party Congressmen were Gen Xers, no?

    Exactly my point. I don't think (I have no real proof offhand, sorry, just speculation and vague recollection) that there has been much of a presence of even the Gen-Xers until pretty recently. It would take more time than I have now, but I would gladly go through the last several congresses and get the average from them.

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  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Gen X is not on our side.

    I'm a Gen-Xer (born in 1977) and I'm much more on the side of the Millenials than the Boomers. Maybe I hang out with a younger crowd, or I don't "count" as a young Gen-Xer, I dunno. I am old enough to remember being told the exact same stuff you folks were told, particular vis-a-vis a university education, and watching when that fell apart. My parents are Boomers and were pretty explicit about the whole go to college, get a BA, land a good job thing (for my mom this meant the Federal civil service here in Canada). I remember watching all those jobs dry up under the last round of austerity we went through in the mid 1990s (and hey, weren't we supposed to be coming OUT of those austerity measures around now, after running budget surpluses for years? Nope, it's time for round 2).

    I guess where I lucked out is that I kind of squeaked in at the last point where you could afford to change directions and it wasn't like one wrong move at 18 had you working for minimum wage your whole life (which is to say I was in a BA at one point, saw my friends graduate into call center jobs, struck out on my own and came back and did a Computer Science degree instead), and my parents don't buy into a lot of the Boomer values and so weren't leveraged to the hilt themselves and have helped me out. I also cynical enough that I've gone back to do an MBA. I will say, though, the problem is not just Boomers and Gen-Xers. My classes are full of Millenials (since my school will take MBA candidates with no work experience, some are like 23-24) and it is damned disturbing hearing a Boomer professor extol the virtues of Ayn Rand, having the Millenial students gobble it up, and probably being the only person in the room who has both read the book (because I know the professor hasn't, or at least hasn't read Atlas Shrugged) and has enough real world experience to realize what complete crap that worldview is.

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  • SkyGheNeSkyGheNe Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Yeah, the Cold War... Its so weird to think that something that seems to permanent as the Soviet Union would just crumble into the wind.

    Its why I never bought into the whole War on Terror. Even in his wildest dreams Osama could never match the real spine chilling terror of 3000 nuclear missiles.

    He didn't need 3,000 nuclear missiles to fundamentally change the way we travel and handle security - and the executive powers that spawned from it. In some people's cases - the way they live on a regular basis.

    SkyGheNe on
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  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    I am from the tail end of the Gen X'ers I guess, having been born in 1978. I remember the USSR being the big scary boogie man, I vaguely remember the Star Wars defense program even. I also grew up in San Antonio, TX, which is a military town if ever there was one. I very clearly remember a guy I went to high school with having the goal of getting into politics so he could sell his vote to the highest bidder (so wish I was joking). To my great shame I was a supporter of Conservative political views until a few years after college graduation in 2001. The past decade or so has really opened my eyes, though, and I'm far more of a liberal than I used to be. I think part of the problem was that it was hammered into my head over and over again that "Communism is the enemy, Capitalism is the only right way to live."

    It's not impossible to change your point of view on things like that, but it isn't usually something that comes easily. I used to watch that horrible Lou Dobbs show on CNN where he constantly railed against illegal immigrants, and I think that was one of the catalysts I had for re-examining my beliefs. The first few times I saw the show I was real gung-ho about the crap he was spewing, but the more I heard it the more I just had to investigate his claims for myself, and the more I realized he was an idiot. I sometimes fear I am running into the same problems again with the more liberal beliefs I hold now, so I try to investigate claims by both sides. I hope I am successful.

    Hrm, rambling point aside, if you can get Gen X'ers like myself to really examine their beliefs and research into what has been going on the past 40 years, I think you can get many people around my age to realize where their anger should be directed.

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  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    I am not completely sure. I believe that the Boo
    SkyGheNe wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Yeah, the Cold War... Its so weird to think that something that seems to permanent as the Soviet Union would just crumble into the wind.

    Its why I never bought into the whole War on Terror. Even in his wildest dreams Osama could never match the real spine chilling terror of 3000 nuclear missiles.

    He didn't need 3,000 nuclear missiles to fundamentally change the way we travel and handle security - and the executive powers that spawned from it. In some people's cases - the way they live on a regular basis.

    Yes, things have changed, but over a bullshit guy that spent most of his time hiding in a mansion somewhere and plots made up out of thin air. The changes are self-imposed and mostly bullshit.

    I am not as afraid of getting caught in a potential terrorist attack as I was that one of the 3000 missiles would go off by accident and blow the entire planet to kingdom come. That was actually more likely.

    Communicating from the last of the Babylon Stations.
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    If by some miracle our generation produces and raises children, I wonder if they're grow up to become a new round of Boomers.

    Cantido on
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  • HacksawHacksaw J Duggan Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    More likely they're going to grow up as denizens of a Post Apocalyptic wasteland a la The Road Warrior.

  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    I was thinking about making a thread on the Marriage, Divorce, and Birth Rates, but it all boils down to the same situation covered here.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/27/birth-rate-too-poor-to-have-kids_n_1382110.html?ref=business&ir=Business

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  • HacksawHacksaw J Duggan Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Kids cost money. Most people in our generation don't have money. Ergo, dot dot dot.

  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    US still has a positive growth rate because of immigration

  • LilnoobsLilnoobs Alpha Queue Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    Kids cost money. Most people in our generation don't have money. Ergo, dot dot dot.

    Not all of it is economics. Look at the populations that are growing in the US; they are relatively poorer than "millenials" (since the generation terms really only apply to mainstream--white--american culture) yet are having lots of childhood.

    I think it's a combination of economics and education; millenials think they need money in order to raise kids properly, those in poverty don't really have that issue because they just have kids and aren't educated. I think this should lead to some interesting demographics in the future, "tomorrow children" and all that.

    Lilnoobs on
  • BamelinBamelin Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    shryke wrote: »
    Gen X is not on our side.

    I'm a Gen-Xer (born in 1977) and I'm much more on the side of the Millenials than the Boomers. Maybe I hang out with a younger crowd, or I don't "count" as a young Gen-Xer, I dunno. I am old enough to remember being told the exact same stuff you folks were told, particular vis-a-vis a university education, and watching when that fell apart. My parents are Boomers and were pretty explicit about the whole go to college, get a BA, land a good job thing (for my mom this meant the Federal civil service here in Canada). I remember watching all those jobs dry up under the last round of austerity we went through in the mid 1990s (and hey, weren't we supposed to be coming OUT of those austerity measures around now, after running budget surpluses for years? Nope, it's time for round 2).

    I guess where I lucked out is that I kind of squeaked in at the last point where you could afford to change directions and it wasn't like one wrong move at 18 had you working for minimum wage your whole life (which is to say I was in a BA at one point, saw my friends graduate into call center jobs, struck out on my own and came back and did a Computer Science degree instead), and my parents don't buy into a lot of the Boomer values and so weren't leveraged to the hilt themselves and have helped me out. I also cynical enough that I've gone back to do an MBA. I will say, though, the problem is not just Boomers and Gen-Xers. My classes are full of Millenials (since my school will take MBA candidates with no work experience, some are like 23-24) and it is damned disturbing hearing a Boomer professor extol the virtues of Ayn Rand, having the Millenial students gobble it up, and probably being the only person in the room who has both read the book (because I know the professor hasn't, or at least hasn't read Atlas Shrugged) and has enough real world experience to realize what complete crap that worldview is.

    I was born in 76 ... also feel alot closer to Millennials than boomers. I also got screwed while in school ... a very conservative provincial government (Harris government) was in power in Ontario in the 90's and cut the avenue I was obtaining my student loans forcing me to drop out.

    I always felt that they got the dates somewhat wrong when defining generations. My older brother born in 72 listened to Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, etc, while most of my friends and me were listening to either alternative or very early mainstream hip hop (Young MC, Salt and Pepper, Fresh Prince, Rob Bass etc). I like the "Nintendo Generation" title for my generation better ... kids born between 75 - 82 were the first of a very technically literate generation to come. I will say though that Gen X as a whole "understood" the internet even though it hit (I define "hit" by windows 95), cultural mainstream in the late 90's. Most of Gen X was just finishing college when the internet age hit hard, and had our 20's to adjust to new social realities.

    Generation X was the first to experience "global outsourcing/downsizing" we were the first generation to realize that we were going to be screwed by the boomers in terms of employment opportunities ... there is a reason we were considered to "hate authority" and have a pretty apathetic outlook on life in general. My early 20's (96 - 2000) global outsourcing had just become "a thing", and the old axiom of working at one company for life was falling apart.

    One thing about Gen X'ers I've noted is that we tend to have a very mercenary work style ... that's a product of having to compete against boomers and the global economy, combined with growing up through our formative years in a world without social media and sharing. At the same time late Gen X'ers are young enough to understand social media and how it will affect the workplace. This puts us in an interesting position ... old enough to be seen as "experienced" by boomers but young enough to still be seen to have "fresh" ideas (ie. we "understand" millenials and their goshdarned twitters). The job market still isn't easy for us but Gen X'ers as a whole are going to be (and are currently really) the next group to inherit positions of management being vacated by boomers. With that said, in our 20's things were pretty shitty for Gen X'ers too. We're only doing abit better than Millenials right now by merit of being slightly older, and having the advantage of being the generation that will inherit Boomer's better paying positions. And even then we're STILL waiting for those fuckers to retire.

    I've worked in a few corporate positions now and one thing I've noticed is that there are two distinct workplace cultures -- the old school boomer workplace (those organizations with senior positions all loaded with boomers), and Millenial companies -- generally startups and tech companies filled with a young vibrant workforce and usually headed up by a Young Gen X'er. Boomer companies suck. Petty politics, everyone's in it for themselves, people will backstab and cut your throat, it's pretty much dog eat dog. Millennial companies on the other hand are usually awesome. Generally teamwork oriented companies, where a failure or success of one is seen as a failure or success of a department (unlike boomer companies where one guy gets scapegoated or elevated) ... millennial companies also tend to value work life balance over boomer companies work 12 hour days.

    *shrug*

    Having seen how Millennial's roll compared to how Boomers roll, I'll take the Millennial Gen in a heart beat. Which I suppose is very Gen X of me as Gen X typically is always looking for the best deal to get ourselves ahead. Millennials offer a far better deal than boomers.






    Bamelin on
  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    I wouldn't mind a fucked up work/life balance if I could have salaryman job security and assurance.

  • BamelinBamelin Registered User regular
    Bagginses wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind a fucked up work/life balance if I could have salaryman job security and assurance.

    Job security is a thing of the past even if you DO currently have a "good" job right now ... and regardless of whether the company respects work life balance or not. Your always one corporate downsizing away from the Employment Insurance office at a boomer company, or one "our funding got cut" at a millennial organization.

    I'm being abit flippant, it's not always that black and white, but the bottom line (to me) is to try to find a place that is going to fit best with your personal lifestyle and work ethic. With that said, I'm on Employment Insurance right now and if it were close to running out I'd be taking the first thing that comes along too.

  • BamelinBamelin Registered User regular
    One other thing I'll say ... I was just old enough at the end of the 90's to realize what was happening with the dot com boom, but not old enough to hop on the train.

    Right now, this present day? It's the dot com boom all over again, this time covering web 2.0 and social media. There are ALOT of opportunities to make money particularly in the start up sector where venture companies are throwing money at start ups. Many startups are willing to hire somebody right out of college into a senior position (relatively speaking) although the pay may be shit compared to corporate. So that's something to consider if you live in a big city that has a tech culture. And if your start up should happen to go big/get sold and you hold stock options ....

    The gravy train is back in the station, there ARE opportunities out there even for Millennials too. For those of you in Canada check out: http://jobs.startupnorth.ca/

  • RaekreuRaekreu Registered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    More likely they're going to grow up as denizens of a Post Apocalyptic wasteland a la The Road Warrior.
    Preparing for the future in 4 simple steps:
    Step 1: Invest in guns, leather loincloths, and mohawk gel
    Step 2: Wait for collapse of society
    Step 3: Laugh all the way to the...oh wait, society collapsed
    Step 4: God dammit

  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    Bamelin wrote: »
    One other thing I'll say ... I was just old enough at the end of the 90's to realize what was happening with the dot com boom, but not old enough to hop on the train.

    Right now, this present day? It's the dot com boom all over again, this time covering web 2.0 and social media. There are ALOT of opportunities to make money particularly in the start up sector where venture companies are throwing money at start ups. Many startups are willing to hire somebody right out of college into a senior position (relatively speaking) although the pay may be shit compared to corporate. So that's something to consider if you live in a big city that has a tech culture. And if your start up should happen to go big/get sold and you hold stock options ....

    The gravy train is back in the station, there ARE opportunities out there even for Millennials too. For those of you in Canada check out: http://jobs.startupnorth.ca/

    No doubt. This is what I'm trying now. There's no way I'm waiting for active duty working at a Wal Mart when I have a tech degree and secret clearance.

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  • DeebaserDeebaser Alpha Teemo Fake Board GamerRegistered User regular
    "get a job at a soon to be successful startup" is a plan like "bet your paycheck on black" is a plan.


  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    Deebaser wrote: »
    "get a job at a soon to be successful startup" is a plan like "bet your paycheck on black" is a plan.


    I know right? People act like 90% of startups aren't failures or something and end up with people working without even getting paid oft times.

  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    Deebaser wrote: »
    "get a job at a soon to be successful startup" is a plan like "bet your paycheck on black" is a plan.


    But, but, you're always supposed to bet on black!

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  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    Deebaser wrote: »
    "get a job at a soon to be successful startup" is a plan like "bet your paycheck on black" is a plan.


    I know right? People act like 90% of startups aren't failures or something and end up with people working without even getting paid oft times.

    I daresay you have significantly better odds betting on black than betting on being in a successful startup. You should still not do use either of these things as your sole plan for the future.

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    FFXIV - Ruby Heliconia
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    chrisnl wrote: »
    Deebaser wrote: »
    "get a job at a soon to be successful startup" is a plan like "bet your paycheck on black" is a plan.


    I know right? People act like 90% of startups aren't failures or something and end up with people working without even getting paid oft times.

    I daresay you have significantly better odds betting on black than betting on being in a successful startup. You should still not do use either of these things as your sole plan for the future.

    Yeah, I should add that this isn't my long term goal, it's short term. I want to work somewhere meaningful while waiting for Active Duty to begin.

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  • Magus`Magus` Registered User regular
    My mom is recovering from some minor surgery and her mom and sister are visiting. They tell me I'm not looking hard enough to find a job.. when my mom also doesn't have one, but poor her, I guess?

  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    Magus` wrote: »
    My mom is recovering from some minor surgery and her mom and sister are visiting. They tell me I'm not looking hard enough to find a job.. when my mom also doesn't have one, but poor her, I guess?

    You have a penis. And to be a man you must have both money, and a penis.

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  • Magus`Magus` Registered User regular
    They're also doing the 'you need to respect your mom more cause she's your mom' thing older people do. It annoys me.

  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    Magus` wrote: »
    My mom is recovering from some minor surgery and her mom and sister are visiting. They tell me I'm not looking hard enough to find a job.. when my mom also doesn't have one, but poor her, I guess?

    You have a penis. And to be a man you must have both money, and a penis.

    I hope you enjoy wallowing in your heteronormative stereotypes you monster.

    Lh96QHG.png
  • Fallout2manFallout2man Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Magus` wrote: »
    They're also doing the 'you need to respect your mom more cause she's your mom' thing older people do. It annoys me.

    This is why I keep a good 300 miles from my parents. The last time those words were uttered it ended in my Dad choking me because I called out that bullshit. It's got to be one of all of about four times that man's even appeared in my life other than to walk past my line of vision silently. One-sided "automatic" respect for people makes my blood boil. I will show contempt for it, even in the face of physical violence.

    Fallout2man on
    On Ignorance:
    Kana wrote:
    If the best you can come up with against someone who's patently ignorant is to yell back at him, "Yeah? Well there's BOOKS, and they say you're WRONG!"

    Then honestly you're not coming out of this looking great either.
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    I count myself lucky in this regard. My mom struggled when she was starting out, and my family was pretty poor when I was born. My mom has always been sympathetic when I've been having difficulties, and she's the least 'entitled' person I know.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • Magus`Magus` Registered User regular
    My grandma is paying all my mom's bills and helping her pay off debt due to the massive fuck ups she's done over her life. Where as I'm 'entitled' to anything except a boot-straps-ish lecture.

  • DelzhandDelzhand motivated battle programmerRegistered User regular
    Al_wat wrote: »
    The problem is you're too eager to work.

    The corporate world needs just the right kind of lazy asshole.

    I honestly have no idea how an entire generation of people whose success is almost wholly ascribable to entitlements and unscrupulous tax laws can be so fixated on bootstraps.

    It's like all of them look around at the gaping interiors of their McMansions bought with their earnings as an auto mechanic or steel millwright and say, "Yeah, this about right. I worked hard for this."

    "You don't know what hard work is, you just type on a computer all day"

    jk0Btsj.png
  • CasualCasual worst polygamist Registered User regular
    Magus` wrote: »
    My mom is recovering from some minor surgery and her mom and sister are visiting. They tell me I'm not looking hard enough to find a job.. when my mom also doesn't have one, but poor her, I guess?

    You young people don't know real hardship something something bootstraps et cetera, ad nauseum...

    It's the bullshit they were raised on, and you know what they say about old dogs.

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Magus` wrote: »
    My mom is recovering from some minor surgery and her mom and sister are visiting. They tell me I'm not looking hard enough to find a job.. when my mom also doesn't have one, but poor her, I guess?

    You young people don't know real hardship something something bootstraps et cetera, ad nauseum...

    It's the bullshit they were raised on, and you know what they say about old dogs.

    They should be taken out back and Ol' Yeller'd? :D

    And really, you can teach old dogs new tricks.

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  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Delzhand wrote: »
    "You don't know what hard work is, you just type on a computer all day"

    It's only okay when they type on a computer all day:
    http://www.hulu.com/watch/42615/saturday-night-live-night-school-musical
    I hope you enjoy wallowing in your heteronormative stereotypes you monster.

    For those who didn't know the reference.
    Spoiler:

    Cantido on
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  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Al_wat wrote: »
    The problem is you're too eager to work.

    The corporate world needs just the right kind of lazy asshole.

    I honestly have no idea how an entire generation of people whose success is almost wholly ascribable to entitlements and unscrupulous tax laws can be so fixated on bootstraps.

    It's like all of them look around at the gaping interiors of their McMansions bought with their earnings as an auto mechanic or steel millwright and say, "Yeah, this about right. I worked hard for this."

    "You don't know what hard work is, you just type on a computer all day"

    I'm not that old and I say that to people

    :P

  • CasualCasual worst polygamist Registered User regular
    Al_wat wrote: »
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Al_wat wrote: »
    The problem is you're too eager to work.

    The corporate world needs just the right kind of lazy asshole.

    I honestly have no idea how an entire generation of people whose success is almost wholly ascribable to entitlements and unscrupulous tax laws can be so fixated on bootstraps.

    It's like all of them look around at the gaping interiors of their McMansions bought with their earnings as an auto mechanic or steel millwright and say, "Yeah, this about right. I worked hard for this."

    "You don't know what hard work is, you just type on a computer all day"

    I'm not that old and I say that to people

    :P

    Fuck you buddy. Eyestrain inconveniences literally billions of Americans every day.

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    Well, to be fair

    typing on a computer all day sure beats the hell out of digging a ditch all day.

  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    Well, to be fair

    typing on a computer all day sure beats the hell out of digging a ditch all day.

    Depends on whether or not you earn minimum wage and how many ditches you have to dig compared to how much meaningless data you have to crunch. Comparing the salaries/hours of a ditch digger in 1960 and a data entry worker today would probably not make modern jobs look good.

    Your puny weapons are useless against me
  • CasualCasual worst polygamist Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    RT800 wrote: »
    Well, to be fair

    typing on a computer all day sure beats the hell out of digging a ditch all day.

    Depends on whether or not you earn minimum wage and how many ditches you have to dig compared to how much meaningless data you have to crunch. Comparing the salaries/hours of a ditch digger in 1960 and a data entry worker today would probably not make modern jobs look good.

    As a guy working a low paid data entry job I can tell you that is the gospel truth. The tedium is physically exausting, I come home each night and all I want to do is go to bed.

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
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