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Strength.Training.Guile. [Mass Effect].The Special Tasks Group needs you.USE SPOILER TAGS
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in fairness
the krogan aren't "supposed" to have such an absurdly high level of population growth
they only naturally give birth to so many because the vast majority of offspring would be killed by the hazards of Tuchanka
the uplift made that stop happening, and the genophage is just an artificial substitute for the natural culling that krogans evolved to go under
arguably, even ignoring the galaxy at large, a cured krogan would eventually kill themselves with overpopulation. Part of the reason they expanded so aggressively was because Tuchanka couldn't even begin to support their numbers anymore.
Let me tell you about video games. Let me tell you about Homestuck
STEAM ID
As usual, though, Salarians could only understand the scientific aspects. From a purely statistical standpoint, the Krogan species still has the capability to sustain itself even with current genophage birth rates. But this is only when you don't take into consideration the social and ethical ramifications, and how the Krogan responded to the genophage. A fully unified species could have probably lived with the genophage, but the Krogan were never really a unified species to begin with. All the genophage from a social and cultural perspective was amplify all the negative aspects of Krogan nature and fragment them further.
They aren't being genocided
by that time one would hope his and eve's influence would have benefited the krogan enough that they would realize that going back to barbarism would only harm them in the long run
Granted, you can't be sure, but I'd rather side with ethics than eugenics.
the overwhelming majority of their children die before they carry them to term because of a disease that was designed to destroy their ability to reproduce
how the fuck is that not genocide?
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Academically.
The above is eugenics, genocide would be rounding up not only the litter of birth but also their mother, father, uncle, etc. and destroying them by hand.
Splitting hairs, but there is a hair to split.
They kind of are, though. You see Wrex fighting against it, but Wrex is an incredible exception to the Krogan species, quite literally centuries ahead of his time. By introducing something like the genophage to an already volatile species, it just makes the genocide a slow acting one.
It's not just the genophage that's killing them, but it's the genophage, in addition to Krogan not being able to socially evolve on their own terms with so many outside influences acting upon them, most of which actually inciting them towards violence. Mordin even outright says this. Not enough consideration was given to the possible ramifications of either the uplifting or the genophage. It might not be the only cause of the genocide, but the Salarian race is absolutely directly responsible for the plight of the Krogan race.
because the math says the number of live births (or successful hatchings?) is the same as it was before krogan were uplifted, and they were already becoming resistant to it at one point so it's reasonable to assume they will again develop resistance
Hopefully after they've had a cultural shift and dropping asteroids on planets is no longer the krogan version if a picnic in the park
not everyone agrees with that definition but there you go
I feel that it is genocide, albeit without the intention to fully exterminate the Krogan
Let me tell you about video games. Let me tell you about Homestuck
not that it might not still be true, just saying
Well yeah, but that's because most of them are suicidally depressed death seekers.
well I'm glad you can tell the difference between actively murdering children and passively allowing them to die by the Billions, capitol "B", from a disease that was designed to destroy their entire culture
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Pretty much. She also goes onto say that many Krogan (especially females) find such dishonor in not being able to birth, that they just wander out in the wastes until they die of exhaustion. The social impact of the genophage is just as harmful as the medical symptoms, but it's still because of the genophage.
Are you actually offended? Or are you still soap-boxing? I'd like to introduce you to a concept called Devil's Advocate.
Alt:
Shepard says this almost verbatim in ME2 and Mordin explains it wasn't designed to destroy the Krogan. It was there to preserve them.
Intent is very important when determining if something is genocidal.
were they suicidally depressed death-seekers back when millions of krogan died every day to thresher maw/klixen/varren attacks?
Let me tell you about video games. Let me tell you about Homestuck
Well the genophage has been described as a few things during the games
Sometimes it's described as stillborn children. Sometimes it's described as Krogan being unable to actually get pregnant and so on. The Genophage has been forced sterilization, forced abortion, and quite a few placed in between.
does it result in stillbirths or no pregnancies at all, do krogan give live birth or lay eggs, etc.
but seriously though the genophage was developed to save the galaxy from the krogan and maintained to save the krogan from the galaxy, the krogan are having trouble Dealing With It because they are a prey species that has evolved to be selfish and shortsighted, and it is an awkward solution but it is better than the krogan undergoing a population explosion and swarming over every available planet they can and probably undergoing a significant population collapse once resources run out
For Mordin's part, yes. Mordin despises any casualties he finds unnecessary.
But people like the Dalatrass seem to think Krogan extinction via the genophage and division would be the cleanest way of the "Krogan problem" solving itself.
Why else would they have
yeah, there's a lot of ways to rationalize genocide
the best of them is saying that it is for their own good
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tuchanka
sabotaging the shroud doesn't result in exterminating the krogan? It just maintains the genophage
also just because many salarians agree with the genophage for the wrong reasons doesn't mean that it's not in everyone's best interest
Let me tell you about video games. Let me tell you about Homestuck
You realize how desperate the Krogan rebellions were right? It was escalating into a conflict in which one race would have probably wiped out the other anyway.
The Turians were not winning conventionally, they held the line, but it was the genophage that ended the war. Read the codex entries.
From the codex: "The Genophage does not reduce fertility, but offspring viability."
So, the former.
Like, I am not saying what happened to them was good. But I am saying that they forced the Salarians and the Turians to use the 'phage, he alternative would have been the Krogan killing and enslaving them all, probably.
you really can't compare it to any kind of human genocide
considering that there isn't any group of humans that are biologically designed to constantly withstand losing the vast majority of their offspring
Let me tell you about video games. Let me tell you about Homestuck
the Salarians could have killed them
it would, as Mordin says, have been easy
but they made the Genophage because they didn't want to destroy the Krogan, just remove them as a threat
The uplifting was a mistake to begin with, and while the genophage may have been the "right" solution to the problem, it was a problem caused by Salarian's in the first place.
And judging by Sur Kesh, they seemed to have learned fuck all from the experience.
You are adorable.
Aren't you? Aren't you?
I think with Wrex and Eve there is a high chance that a cured krogan wouldn't repeat the mistakes of the rebellions
however
unless they manage to tightly regulate breeding or something, they're going to end up overpopulating any planet they colonize, and pretty much the only possible results of that are keeping their numbers down with constant civil war or ultimately expanding to other planets and restarting the war
Neither of those options are better than the genophage
the ideal solution is for Wrex and Eve to unite an uncured Tuchanka and find ways to rebuild the civilization with the genophage. Again, the primary problem the krogan have is that they're not interested in putting in the work necessary to rebuild, not that they don't have a high enough birth rate to allow them to.
Let me tell you about video games. Let me tell you about Homestuck
A female can have roughly 1,000 kids in a year. Drastically reducing that number doesn't sound so bad when they don't have the environment to curb those numbers naturally.
yeah
uplifting them in the first place was wrong, and while the genophage is morally dubious it's the best possible solution to that mistake.
of course the uplift was in response to the rachni, so you could make the argument that the rachni were too powerful to do anything but kill them by fucking over the krogan
but all the details on that sort of thing are vague so you can't really make a value judgment there
Let me tell you about video games. Let me tell you about Homestuck
I guess I'll just add everyone from the op list to my origin friends list? Is there a better way to do that?
Quite not, just not really in a mood to really argue against soap-boxing.
I find being lightly trollish carries the most weight in those situations, anyway.