Vanilla Forums has been nominated for a second time in the CMS Critic "Critic's Choice" awards, and we need your vote! Read more here, and then do the thing (please).
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

League of Legends: This is apparently the NOT buggy version of the patch.

24567100

Posts

  • CarnarvonCarnarvon Registered User regular
    Mahnmut wrote: »
    Dear thread,

    I'm level 17. When can I start jungling?

    Depends on the champion. Malph and WW can jungle from pre-20 very well, while the Mundos and Rivens are worth pretty much fuck-all pre-30.

    I'd wait to level 20 and pick up some AD reds and quints, armor yellows, with choice blues.

  • SpectrumSpectrum Super High-School Level ??? Hope's Peak AcademyRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Mahnmut wrote: »
    Dear thread,

    I'm level 17. When can I start jungling?
    Level 20, get Tier 3 runes. You can run every non-marginal jungler at that point

    Flat AD reds, flat armor yellows, your choices blues (typically flat cdr or some type of MR), AD quints

    That will work for pretty much every bruiser jungler in the game, even if not exactly what a given character wants. If you have extra IP, go Flat AS reds and arpen quints for Cho/Mundo.

    Spectrum on
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    We need more bros for SR.
    HOUN JOIN US (and then we'll shave later).

    Sorry bro, already shaved. Also, going out now. I'll hit you up later.

    Steam: DigitalArcanist | PSN: DigitalArcanist | NNID: DigitalArcanist | Backloggery: Houn
  • programjunkieprogramjunkie Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Mahnmut wrote: »
    Dear thread,

    I'm level 17. When can I start jungling?

    Now. Make sure you have armor pen reds, armor yellows (tier 1 is fine), and use warwick. Grab a longsword + hp pot and level WQQEQ for abilities. You'll be slower than level 30, but that's fine since everyone else will last hit less effectively than a level 30, and people tend to push out more, making ganks easier.

    Edit to add:
    Goumindong wrote: »
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    If you get a kill early, blow abilities to push the wave out to their tower asap, then b. You lose less CS from backing, come back into lane with a big advantage and maximize the disadvantage from farming.

    Yes, this is a thing that can happen.

    Is it enough to encourage aggression in this game? Obviously not.

    Why would it? If you lose the engagement the other person does the same to you and you are way behind.

    The game in terms of risk is symmetric since each team can go in at the same time (so even if there is an advantage in initiating you have to risk getting initiated on to initiate)

    The only way you could really make aggression matter more would be if dying and killing didn't get you as much. Dying in lane would not set you back and so killing in lane can't give you an advantage.

    Ironically this means that in order to enable aggression in the early game you would have to set it up so that aggression did not matter. You might as well farm (since engaging won't get you anything)

    But if we have a game like that then why do we have an early game at all, why not just put champions at level 18 and team fight it out until one team wins?

    This only applies if there is a 50/50 chance of dying. If rewards/penalties are equal, if you can win 75% of fights, aggression is the correct strategy as you'll come out ahead.

    The problem is, playing defensively bottom is too powerful. It's harder to initiate a fight to the death than to avoid one, so the only way to win a kill lane is to outskill your opponents.

    programjunkie on
  • TommattTommatt Registered User regular
    Mahnmut wrote: »
    Dear thread,

    I'm level 17. When can I start jungling?

    Probably now with armor yellows.

    Nunu and WW can jungle from level 1 with no runes.

    111813113553.png
    360 GT Tommatt
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    If you get a kill early, blow abilities to push the wave out to their tower asap, then b. You lose less CS from backing, come back into lane with a big advantage and maximize the disadvantage from farming.

    Yes, this is a thing that can happen.

    Is it enough to encourage aggression in this game? Obviously not.

    Why would it? If you lose the engagement the other person does the same to you and you are way behind.

    The game in terms of risk is symmetric since each team can go in at the same time (so even if there is an advantage in initiating you have to risk getting initiated on to initiate)

    The only way you could really make aggression matter more would be if dying and killing didn't get you as much. Dying in lane would not set you back and so killing in lane can't give you an advantage.

    Ironically this means that in order to enable aggression in the early game you would have to set it up so that aggression did not matter. You might as well farm (since engaging won't get you anything)

    But if we have a game like that then why do we have an early game at all, why not just put champions at level 18 and team fight it out until one team wins?

    The game is not symmetric, since people are picking different strategies and compositions to go. Most of the lack of aggression stuff is based in a hatred of in lane passivity so let's just look at that part of the game.

    You can simply make being aggressive more rewarding without making it symmetric. Make trading more beneficial for the person initiating the fights in lanes, if the player dies first but still manages to kill the other player, make it so dead champions gain less benefit from a kill in terms of gold/exp.

    The essential problem is that being safe and farming is almost always the better decision than being aggressive and going for the throat. Top and bottom lanes seem to be examples of this.

    ChaosHat.com - Twitter - Twitch Stream - Steam: ChaosHat - 3DS: 5215-0009-1949
    SC2: ChaosHat.444 ggtracker
  • CarnarvonCarnarvon Registered User regular
    hahahaha this game

    i love shen so much

  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Now that we're talking about it, when can Shyvana start jungling, and what are suggestions for it? I'm 15 myself, and have her, but don't use her much since whenever I pick her everyone seems to instantly assume I'll be jungling with her.

    Drascin on
    Steam ID: <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/id/Drascin">Drascin</a>
  • ArikadoArikado Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    Wow, CLG just going nuts on v8.

    3DS: 5112-3515-8441 | PSN: Nezandy | XBL: Arikado PA | BNet: Arikado#1153 | Steam | Twitter
  • CarnarvonCarnarvon Registered User regular
    Drascin wrote: »
    Now that we're talking about it, when can Shyvana start jungling, and what are suggestions for it? I'm 15 myself, and have her, but don't use her much since whenever I pick her everyone seems to instantly assume I'll be jungling with her.

    Don't let anyone tell you Shyvana is a bad top lane. Or middle.

    As for the jungle, you should be fine at level 20 so long as you go cloth+pots with the standard armor yellows.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    The game is not symmetric, since people are picking different strategies and compositions to go. Most of the lack of aggression stuff is based in a hatred of in lane passivity so let's just look at that part of the game.

    You can simply make being aggressive more rewarding without making it symmetric. Make trading more beneficial for the person initiating the fights in lanes, if the player dies first but still manages to kill the other player, make it so dead champions gain less benefit from a kill in terms of gold/exp.

    The essential problem is that being safe and farming is almost always the better decision than being aggressive and going for the throat. Top and bottom lanes seem to be examples of this.

    The game is symmetric with respect to aggression. If it were not symmetric you would be suggesting that one side has an advantage in aggression in the entire game.

    If there is a clear bonus to aggressing and one side has an advantage to aggressing then why are we playing this game? Whichever team as the advantage in early aggression wins the game. GG lets go home at char select.(edit: not to mention that if the other team has such an advantage you tend to play more passively)

    But of course that is not true. If you aggress you risk all those things that you gain from aggressing. And, in order to aggress, you must put yourself in a situation where you may be engaged upon.

    You cannot make aggression "worth more" and expect it to happen. This has been seen in every competitive computer game ever made.

    EDIT:

    ROUND 1: GLG in 20 minute surrender

    Goumindong on
    wbBv3fj.png
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    The game is not symmetric, since people are picking different strategies and compositions to go. Most of the lack of aggression stuff is based in a hatred of in lane passivity so let's just look at that part of the game.

    You can simply make being aggressive more rewarding without making it symmetric. Make trading more beneficial for the person initiating the fights in lanes, if the player dies first but still manages to kill the other player, make it so dead champions gain less benefit from a kill in terms of gold/exp.

    The essential problem is that being safe and farming is almost always the better decision than being aggressive and going for the throat. Top and bottom lanes seem to be examples of this.

    The game is symmetric with respect to aggression. If it were not symmetric you would be suggesting that one side has an advantage in aggression in the entire game.

    If there is a clear bonus to aggressing and one side has an advantage to aggressing then why are we playing this game? Whichever team as the advantage in early aggression wins the game. GG lets go home at char select.

    But of course that is not true. If you aggress you risk all those things that you gain from aggressing. And, in order to aggress, you must put yourself in a situation where you may be engaged upon.

    I literally have no idea what you're arguing for anymore.

    ChaosHat.com - Twitter - Twitch Stream - Steam: ChaosHat - 3DS: 5215-0009-1949
    SC2: ChaosHat.444 ggtracker
  • CarnarvonCarnarvon Registered User regular
    holy shit they surrendered

  • TrusTrus Registered User regular
    Arikado wrote: »
    Wow, CLG just going nuts on v8.
    Spoiler:

    qFN53.png
  • Future BluesFuture Blues Registered User
    edited April 2012
    zerg rush wrote: »
    Oh, thanks for reminding me, Carn.
    I'm tired of people bitching about Dignitas running that awesome support team.
    Pointed out before, playing for money is like being caught in a street fight. You fight to win, not for show. It's not UFC. There are no 'rules'...well, not once you're in-game, that is.
    Wouldn't you play your most OP champ to win money? And if you think that composition is such BS, then why not ban part of it? Are you more worried about losing to a support team, or Udyr and Ree Sin?

    I think there are different sentiments.

    I consider Dignitas awesome for coming up with a new strategy that wins. Woo dignitas.
    I do not want to ever play or play against that strategy. Riot plz nerf that shit asap.

    It's already trickling down. My second game today was Soraka mid, Mundo jungle and Sona bot with Trist. This was a 5s queue in blind pick, but yeah, it's already happening.

    Future Blues on
    Xbox Live: No Reply
    Steam: Jacobontap
    LoL: FutureBlues
  • zerg rushzerg rush Registered User regular
    Spectrum wrote: »
    Mahnmut wrote: »
    Dear thread,

    I'm level 17. When can I start jungling?
    Level 20, get Tier 3 runes. You can run every non-marginal jungler at that point

    Flat AD reds, flat armor yellows, your choices blues (typically flat cdr or some type of MR), AD quints

    That will work for pretty much every bruiser jungler in the game, even if not exactly what a given character wants. If you have extra IP, go Flat AS reds and arpen quints for Cho/Mundo.

    Flat AS reds tend to math out as superior on most junglers. Also, I'd recommend scaling blues for a jungle, since they tend to be better than flats by the time you get use of them (barring fiddle/karthus jungle).

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    This only applies if there is a 50/50 chance of dying. If rewards/penalties are equal, if you can win 75% of fights, aggression is the correct strategy as you'll come out ahead.

    The problem is, playing defensively bottom is too powerful. It's harder to initiate a fight to the death than to avoid one, so the only way to win a kill lane is to outskill your opponents.

    If you have a 75% chance of winning a fight, why will the other guy put themselves in a position to fight?

    A: They will not.

    If they cannot avoid the fight then we aren't really playing a game anyone wants to play. Because whomever has the advantage simply initiates and wins, snowballs, gg 20 minute surrender.

    wbBv3fj.png
  • programjunkieprogramjunkie Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »

    But of course that is not true. If you aggress you risk all those things that you gain from aggressing. And, in order to aggress, you must put yourself in a situation where you may be engaged upon.

    You cannot make aggression "worth more" and expect it to happen. This has been seen in every competitive computer game ever made.

    This isn't even slightly accurate. In team deathmatch, people run into enemies all the time, despite the fact that winning said battle is equally beneficial to both parties, and yet, in LOL, people often avoid to fight to the death bottom lane. Why do you think that is?

  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    zerg rush wrote: »
    Oh, thanks for reminding me, Carn.
    I'm tired of people bitching about Dignitas running that awesome support team.
    Pointed out before, playing for money is like being caught in a street fight. You fight to win, not for show. It's not UFC. There are no 'rules'...well, not once you're in-game, that is.
    Wouldn't you play your most OP champ to win money? And if you think that composition is such BS, then why not ban part of it? Are you more worried about losing to a support team, or Udyr and Ree Sin?

    I think there are different sentiments.

    I consider Dignitas awesome for coming up with a new strategy that wins. Woo dignitas.
    I do not want to ever play or play against that strategy. Riot plz nerf that shit asap.

    It's already trickling down. My second game today was Soraka mid, Mundo jungle and Sona bot with Trist. This was a 5s queue in blind pick, but yeah, it's already happening.

    and only 2 weeks ago people were dodging because I wanted to mid soraka.
    screw you dolphin, screw you whale.

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »

    But of course that is not true. If you aggress you risk all those things that you gain from aggressing. And, in order to aggress, you must put yourself in a situation where you may be engaged upon.

    You cannot make aggression "worth more" and expect it to happen. This has been seen in every competitive computer game ever made.

    This isn't even slightly accurate. In team deathmatch, people run into enemies all the time, despite the fact that winning said battle is equally beneficial to both parties, and yet, in LOL, people often avoid to fight to the death bottom lane. Why do you think that is?

    "In team deathmatch"

    wbBv3fj.png
  • FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    evilthecat wrote: »
    zerg rush wrote: »
    Oh, thanks for reminding me, Carn.
    I'm tired of people bitching about Dignitas running that awesome support team.
    Pointed out before, playing for money is like being caught in a street fight. You fight to win, not for show. It's not UFC. There are no 'rules'...well, not once you're in-game, that is.
    Wouldn't you play your most OP champ to win money? And if you think that composition is such BS, then why not ban part of it? Are you more worried about losing to a support team, or Udyr and Ree Sin?

    I think there are different sentiments.

    I consider Dignitas awesome for coming up with a new strategy that wins. Woo dignitas.
    I do not want to ever play or play against that strategy. Riot plz nerf that shit asap.

    It's already trickling down. My second game today was Soraka mid, Mundo jungle and Sona bot with Trist. This was a 5s queue in blind pick, but yeah, it's already happening.

    and only 2 weeks ago people were dodging because I wanted to mid soraka.
    screw you dolphin, screw you whale.

    Saying MID SORAKA OR FEED tend to do that.

    SC2EU/US: Frozenzen.437 Steam: Frozenzen
  • Hargaad of OmnarHargaad of Omnar Registered User regular
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    Carnarvon wrote: »
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    Carnarvon wrote: »
    I'm gonna sum up every single passivity argument.

    "I want the game to be more aggressive with more kills. Damage is too low, and sustain is too high."

    If you increase damage, people will play more passively because there is more risk involved in trades.

    If you decrease sustain, people will play more passively because there is more risk involved in trades.

    The problem here is risk.

    People are only going to risk so much to gain an advantage, and trying to get kills in LoL is extremely risky business. If I get into a situation (a 1v1, 2v1, 3v3, etc) and lose, not only am I not going to be able to win that situation the next time it comes up, I'm going to lose other situation because they're 300-1500 gold up on us now, and they get to take whatever resource we were fighting over.

    Now, if you reduce the risk for dying, you'll also end up reducing the benefits for killing (eg reducing respawn timers or gold for kills). A good example of this kind of game is a FPS, lots of kills and aggression with few penalties for death.

    If you really want to increase aggression, you'd have to increase the penalties for not being aggressive. How to do that is up to someone else to think about.

    Reduce CS gold, increase champion kill gold/assist gold. Make it so if someone dies to a tower/minions and there isn't a champion within X radius of the death then they only get assist gold, so an aggressor wins a tower dive even if he trades kills. You need to make killing people more powerful than farming kills. Right now if you kill someone, then lose a ton of health and have to back, you pretty much just broke even because of all the CS you lost in the time you spent killing someone, going back, and returning to lane.

    Well, if you kill someone and then have to go back to base, that's only 8 seconds for recall plus two seconds to run to a bush. If their respawn timer is above 10 seconds, you'll be at lane faster with your 300g and experience bonus.

    I feel like I'm the only person who likes the game where it is.

    The point isn't necessarily the exact numbers, but more so that if you had just spent the time farming the lane and getting all the CS for that duration, you'd be at roughly the same spot except with zero risk.

    This game is ALL about the "exact numbers"! If it isn't, then remove the death timer for the first 20 minutes. At 20 minutes, you can surrender, or deal with a death timer.
    And with your "reduce CS gold, increase champ kill gold/assist gold" comment, don't forget the timing. I think it's like...10 seconds? Ten seconds after a champion attacks you, they no longer get assist credit.
    I think tower diving is what it is, because that's what it should be. If you're going to get aggressive for that kill, then you need to understand the risk you're taking. If you don't want to risk losing the trade, then don't do it, or take down the tower ASAP so you have more room to chase.
    You make it sound like there's no aggression being made early game. There's ton of opportunities for early aggression. Just because you see the pros play passive, or play with passive people a lot doesn't mean the game needs to be changed. The people need to change.

    Star Wars (2 separate links)
    Yelling at butts will never NOT be funny. Thanks, Psy!
    Also, Abby is awesome. Keep up with TLH because it's the tits!

    I love League of Legends, but seriously...fuck you, Teemo.
  • KogumaKoguma Registered User regular
    Trus wrote: »
    Arikado wrote: »
    Wow, CLG just going nuts on v8.
    Spoiler:

    Pretty much.

    LoL NA: Kog, K0G D1/challenger/master IDK ANYMORE
    You can see me here playing stuff: http://www.twitchtv/mynameiskog
  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    Frozenzen wrote: »
    evilthecat wrote: »
    zerg rush wrote: »
    Oh, thanks for reminding me, Carn.
    I'm tired of people bitching about Dignitas running that awesome support team.
    Pointed out before, playing for money is like being caught in a street fight. You fight to win, not for show. It's not UFC. There are no 'rules'...well, not once you're in-game, that is.
    Wouldn't you play your most OP champ to win money? And if you think that composition is such BS, then why not ban part of it? Are you more worried about losing to a support team, or Udyr and Ree Sin?

    I think there are different sentiments.

    I consider Dignitas awesome for coming up with a new strategy that wins. Woo dignitas.
    I do not want to ever play or play against that strategy. Riot plz nerf that shit asap.

    It's already trickling down. My second game today was Soraka mid, Mundo jungle and Sona bot with Trist. This was a 5s queue in blind pick, but yeah, it's already happening.

    and only 2 weeks ago people were dodging because I wanted to mid soraka.
    screw you dolphin, screw you whale.

    Saying MID SORAKA OR FEED tend to do that.

    Says Mr. "Veigar bot or afk"!

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Registered User regular
    Listen, I'm not the one who even complained about the passivity in the game to begin with. I'm just saying that there are ways to increase aggression in this game to make it more passive, and those ways aren't "omg nerf sustain" or "make healing better so I can be more aggressive safely." I think the game is fine as is.

    Also, "just because you see the pros play passive" is literally the only thing that matters. I don't care how other people play or how the game plays at lower levels, the only thing worth balancing around is at the very tip top of the game, and if things are bad there, then it needs to be fixed.

    ChaosHat.com - Twitter - Twitch Stream - Steam: ChaosHat - 3DS: 5215-0009-1949
    SC2: ChaosHat.444 ggtracker
  • programjunkieprogramjunkie Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »

    But of course that is not true. If you aggress you risk all those things that you gain from aggressing. And, in order to aggress, you must put yourself in a situation where you may be engaged upon.

    You cannot make aggression "worth more" and expect it to happen. This has been seen in every competitive computer game ever made.

    This isn't even slightly accurate. In team deathmatch, people run into enemies all the time, despite the fact that winning said battle is equally beneficial to both parties, and yet, in LOL, people often avoid to fight to the death bottom lane. Why do you think that is?

    "In team deathmatch"

    Are you intentionally missing the point? My point is you can change the way the game works, and then people will change how they play the game. This isn't even in contention, Dominion is the same game, in a different mode, which people play vastly differently.

    Similarly, you can "force" people to play more aggressively by changing the rule set for summoner's rift a bit to encourage aggressive play over passive CS farming.
    This game is ALL about the "exact numbers"! If it isn't, then remove the death timer for the first 20 minutes. At 20 minutes, you can surrender, or deal with a death timer.
    And with your "reduce CS gold, increase champ kill gold/assist gold" comment, don't forget the timing. I think it's like...10 seconds? Ten seconds after a champion attacks you, they no longer get assist credit.
    I think tower diving is what it is, because that's what it should be. If you're going to get aggressive for that kill, then you need to understand the risk you're taking. If you don't want to risk losing the trade, then don't do it, or take down the tower ASAP so you have more room to chase.
    You make it sound like there's no aggression being made early game. There's ton of opportunities for early aggression. Just because you see the pros play passive, or play with passive people a lot doesn't mean the game needs to be changed. The people need to change.

    It's mostly a game engine issue. I used to tower dive every match as WW back when Flash popped projectiles, because you could negate ~400 damage of tower shots using it properly (one shot in air, one shot lost due to outranging tower) that you need to take now if you tower dive. I still want to tower dive, I just cannot do it successfully anymore. Similar examples exist for other abilities that could be slightly changed to encourage more aggression in play. I agree some players are part of it, but much of it is a reaction to the game rules as they stand.

    programjunkie on
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Registered User regular
    Similarly, you can "force" people to play more aggressively by changing the rule set for summoner's rift a bit to encourage aggressive play over passive CS farming.

    This is exactly my point. Nerfing sustain into the ground isn't going to make people more aggressive. You have to hit people where it hurts...the gold purse. Change how gold is gained in the game and make it stronger in respect to being aggressive, and people will be more aggressive.

    People are saying "oh, well you can get way ahead if you kill someone and blah blah." Obviously, not ahead enough.

    ChaosHat.com - Twitter - Twitch Stream - Steam: ChaosHat - 3DS: 5215-0009-1949
    SC2: ChaosHat.444 ggtracker
  • CarnarvonCarnarvon Registered User regular
    zerg rush wrote: »
    Spectrum wrote: »
    Mahnmut wrote: »
    Dear thread,

    I'm level 17. When can I start jungling?
    Level 20, get Tier 3 runes. You can run every non-marginal jungler at that point

    Flat AD reds, flat armor yellows, your choices blues (typically flat cdr or some type of MR), AD quints

    That will work for pretty much every bruiser jungler in the game, even if not exactly what a given character wants. If you have extra IP, go Flat AS reds and arpen quints for Cho/Mundo.

    Flat AS reds tend to math out as superior on most junglers. Also, I'd recommend scaling blues for a jungle, since they tend to be better than flats by the time you get use of them (barring fiddle/karthus jungle).

    Depends on if your champ has AD scaling or an AS steroid. Warwick wants AD because he has that huge AS buff, and he has no problems clearing buffs, so stacking Armor Pen is a waste because it has no effect on small camps. Shyvana and Skarner want AD for Burnout scaling. Malph, Alitstar, GP, and others want AS.

    You can never go wrong with AD, but AS isn't great on anything but junglers.

  • TracerBulletTracerBullet Registered User regular
    Lee Sin is great.

    And I have the best avatar on this page of the thread. That just needed to be said.

    Spoiler:
  • interrobanginterrobang kawaii as  hellRegistered User regular
    i'm gonna laugh so fucking hard if v8 runs the dignitas comp and wins this game

    fake edit: whoop nevermind

  • KayKay What we need... Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered User regular
    Ah. I have an AD/armour/cdr page for Riven and Lee Sinn, and an AD/armour/AS page for Skarner. Every jungler I play regularly either scales with AD, or has a good AS buff.

    ew9y0DD.png
    3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
  • TehSlothTehSloth Looking for a girl who hates everything that I hate Except meRegistered User regular
    Carnarvon wrote: »
    zerg rush wrote: »
    Spectrum wrote: »
    Mahnmut wrote: »
    Dear thread,

    I'm level 17. When can I start jungling?
    Level 20, get Tier 3 runes. You can run every non-marginal jungler at that point

    Flat AD reds, flat armor yellows, your choices blues (typically flat cdr or some type of MR), AD quints

    That will work for pretty much every bruiser jungler in the game, even if not exactly what a given character wants. If you have extra IP, go Flat AS reds and arpen quints for Cho/Mundo.

    Flat AS reds tend to math out as superior on most junglers. Also, I'd recommend scaling blues for a jungle, since they tend to be better than flats by the time you get use of them (barring fiddle/karthus jungle).

    Depends on if your champ has AD scaling or an AS steroid. Warwick wants AD because he has that huge AS buff, and he has no problems clearing buffs, so stacking Armor Pen is a waste because it has no effect on small camps. Shyvana and Skarner want AD for Burnout scaling. Malph, Alitstar, GP, and others want AS.

    You can never go wrong with AD, but AS isn't great on anything but junglers.

    Are AD marks better on WW? I thought you wanted AS to complement your passive, but I'm a baddie so that could be totally wrong. I'm sure the difference is mostly insignificant.

    FC: 1993-7778-8872 PSN: TehSloth Xbox: SlothTeh
  • CarnarvonCarnarvon Registered User regular
    TehSloth wrote: »
    Carnarvon wrote: »
    zerg rush wrote: »
    Spectrum wrote: »
    Mahnmut wrote: »
    Dear thread,

    I'm level 17. When can I start jungling?
    Level 20, get Tier 3 runes. You can run every non-marginal jungler at that point

    Flat AD reds, flat armor yellows, your choices blues (typically flat cdr or some type of MR), AD quints

    That will work for pretty much every bruiser jungler in the game, even if not exactly what a given character wants. If you have extra IP, go Flat AS reds and arpen quints for Cho/Mundo.

    Flat AS reds tend to math out as superior on most junglers. Also, I'd recommend scaling blues for a jungle, since they tend to be better than flats by the time you get use of them (barring fiddle/karthus jungle).

    Depends on if your champ has AD scaling or an AS steroid. Warwick wants AD because he has that huge AS buff, and he has no problems clearing buffs, so stacking Armor Pen is a waste because it has no effect on small camps. Shyvana and Skarner want AD for Burnout scaling. Malph, Alitstar, GP, and others want AS.

    You can never go wrong with AD, but AS isn't great on anything but junglers.

    Are AD marks better on WW? I thought you wanted AS to complement your passive, but I'm a baddie so that could be totally wrong. I'm sure the difference is mostly insignificant.

    WW's W scales better with AD than with more AS. The difference is ~10 seconds longer getting to level 4, so it isn't a huuuuge deal, but it is significant.

  • EchoEcho staring is caring Super Moderator, Moderator mod
  • KayKay What we need... Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered User regular
    So the PA-special champ's splash art reminds me a little of Raziel from Soul Reaver crossed with DEVIL MAN from that awful manga/anime from the eighties.

    Check it out.

    ew9y0DD.png
    3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
  • TrusTrus Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I see this tournament as as competition for 1st and 4th. Quite frankly if someone other than CLG/Dig/SM win it's a huge upset since they are the 3 teams that are doing this full time. EG and v8 all have other commitments that have to take precedence over LoL (school in most cases) so they just aren't getting the practice that the other teams are. Tree and Takashi have to be getting close to graduating from college so I'll be interested in seeing if they decide to go full time (and if it will be with v8 since I'm pretty sure their "sponsorship" is basically nothing)

    edit: I know aAa is at the tournament also but ehhhhh

    Trus on
    qFN53.png
  • MahnmutMahnmut Registered User regular
    Mahnmut wrote: »
    Dear thread,

    I'm level 17. When can I start jungling?

    Now. Make sure you have armor pen reds, armor yellows (tier 1 is fine), and use warwick. Grab a longsword + hp pot and level WQQEQ for abilities. You'll be slower than level 30, but that's fine since everyone else will last hit less effectively than a level 30, and people tend to push out more, making ganks easier.

    Thanks all! I'm eager to add this role to my stable, because my normal blind pick teams usually lack junglers almost as often as they lack tanks or support (which, I'm increasingly reluctant to play straight support in solo queue).

    Steam/LoL: Jericho89
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Registered User regular
    Avatar and sig now appropriately awesome enough to be seen next to the OP.

    ChaosHat.com - Twitter - Twitch Stream - Steam: ChaosHat - 3DS: 5215-0009-1949
    SC2: ChaosHat.444 ggtracker
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular

    Are you intentionally missing the point? My point is you can change the way the game works, and then people will change how they play the game. This isn't even in contention, Dominion is the same game, in a different mode, which people play vastly differently.

    Similarly, you can "force" people to play more aggressively by changing the rule set for summoner's rift a bit to encourage aggressive play over passive CS farming.

    There are some "slight" differences between SR and Dominion that changes how things work and without changing the entirety of SR we won't be changing that dynamic.

    The dynamic of a passive farming SR is created because you cant win the game until you're strong enough to push their team and their towers down. Such the advantage is never to be strong at the start, but to be strong later. It doesn't matter what team you take you can't win the game before creeps spawn. This dynamic is not present in Dominion. If the other team AFK's you can take the necessary win conditions as soon as you get onto the field.

    Thus when we think of aggression in the early/mid game (where there is little aggression) it cannot be "fixed" in these manners. If you make CSing less valuable you're just going to make it easier to come back after losing a lane. It won't make people stop CS'ing because CSing is a corner solution(well, pretty much). Never Stop Farming... Win.

    It wont make people more aggressive because the benefits of winning a fight will always be the same as the risks of losing a fight(specifically a gold advantage later). It wont make people take more risks, also because killing other champions is also a corner solution. No one gives up free kills voluntarily.

    wbBv3fj.png
  • interrobanginterrobang kawaii as  hellRegistered User regular
    i'm so glad dan is casting these games

    it's been really rough listening to rivington

This discussion has been closed.