This actually sounds to me like a vision infusion by the parent company. They want a competitor to Vindictus and feel the easiest way to do it would be for rework a game in progress.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
But uh, wtf? This does not bode well at all. A year in development and all of a sudden it's going to be a completely different game? Expect people to jump ship soon and a nearly completely new team going ahead to make a new game from the ground up using only the art assets left behind.
I think one of the more interesting things in that article is Cryptic basically admitting their cash shop model has diminishing returns, with the implication that the Western method of chopping up all the in-game content to sell back to you piecemeal along with a bunch of "un-cripple your game client" fees is not a sustainable model.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
To be fair, in Champions Online (the superhero Cryptic game) they've shaped up a bit since having to reform for PW (which is a low bar, given Atari, but whatev). A lot of stuff in the cash shop is still one time buy and you get it forever (costume sets, transform items that let you act like strong versions of mobs as long as you are in PvE, reskins of travel powers and some content, ect ect), BUT they are finally churning enough of it out each month that even those who get stipends can't possibly buy it all, and I know personally a good chunk of lifetimers that still give them money via those cash shop items.
Now this has caused some bitching by a few outspoken individuals since they don't get the vast majority of things being added to the game for free despite the lifetime, wheras most of it they got prior to F2P (not all of it though, they had a few things in the cash shop prior, just not nearly as much). There are occasionally big releases which everyone gets for free (which are actually well done compared to their launch work) but then queue bitching because the free people get the same thing as subbers and lifers get at no cost. It's a dumb complaint but I do understand, it's like buying a VIP card and then everyone else being allowed into your lounge for free; course if they didn't get it, you'd have instances of people grouping up for content only to have a "PLEASE BUY THIS CONTENT" sign pop up when they tried to go in, though I don't think I've seen a single template toon in any of my high level instance runs ever. Freeform (if you sub you are allowed to choose the powers you want, templates are just that, you have to be all one thing with a few variations) tends to find the content easy, template has issues due to lack of defenses or damage wheras freeform can take both.
OH, on the subject of "what is appropriate in the cash shop" and community reactions to it, long rambling CO gossip:
I did get a good laugh when one of the "regular" posters in the forums who had been around since back at launch got mega pissed that free accounts were not allowed to use freeform toons period, including locking out characters that are freeform when you unsub (templates are still available of course). Made a giant thread where he showed his complete lack of common sense (he had basically been in a giant meltdown spiral ever since a few months after release until he reached an astounding level of bitter vet syndrome a little bit at a time) since the only two things a sub grants a player is a stipend and the ability to use freeforms. Hell, he even admitted in the thread that if he could buy a freeform slot to use unsubbed, he'd never sub again, and he thought ten dollars was a reasonable price for getting everything the game had to offer for free. By the end he was effectively going "either give me everything for free or I'm not paying". When people started outright calling him retarded the thread got locked, so he jumped in game on his now-silver account and spammed the main city chat (which is linked accross instances, so 90% of the game population was treated to this crap) with the same thread arguments that got the same result. A bunch of people were calling for abusing the "report as spam" function to take away his ability to talk, and he shut up abruptly after that.
Anyways, reason I brought it up is the problem with western markets is they don't want to touch anything in the cash shops unless it's a permenent upgrade. Grindy asian MMOs where you can take years to hit the cap make +XP items look good, but in the U.S. if it takes more than a month to hit level cap for those trying to go fast, it's "an asian grind" and nobody will touch it.
Diminishing returns is not exactly tantalizing from a business perspective, but I'm not sure they have any other option. Just spew out things to buy as fast as they can to deal with it.
Oh and as far as neverwinter goes I'm suprised this happened instead of the license just getting yanked leaving it dead in the water. That could still happen of course, and all they would be left with is a generic fantasy MMO (generic because it copies the D&D formula! Ironic if that happens). Cryptic doesn't have the greatest amount of luck nor do they do themselves any favors most of the time, but I honestly don't think the crystal ball is of any help here. Hell it could end up as an FPS down the line at this rate, who the hell knows.
Yeah it doesn't bode well, but Astale is right in that Champions Online did shape up eventually and we really can't use a crystal ball here. It could be "doom and fail", it could "kittens and rainbows", it could be somewhere in between. We just don't know yet.
I am with you on that. I just want NWN 3. And honestly, 4th ed is really a good choice for a game, its very well balanced between classes and their powers.
Icewind Dale 3 is more likely than a new Neverwinter Nights game.
And yes, it is pretty much criminal that nobody has made a decent tile-based 4e tactics game yet.
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ArchonexNo hard feelings, right?Registered Userregular
edited October 2011
That sound you heard? It was the sound of the entire fanbase suddenly dropping the game like it was a grenade and running away.
Seriously. What the hell? There's no greater a shift in focus midway through development I can think of, from going from "open ended RPG with development tools you can use to create your own settings" to "another shitty 3rd person action focused Monster Hunter ripoff".
This is why you use unique titles, and not rebrand other games to fit your model. This thing is going to bomb so hard at release if this is where they're taking it.
Edit: Even when the Marvel MMO became Champions, it still didn't swap entire genres. Seriously. What the fuck. Who thought that would be a good idea?
Yeah, if you're going F2P or any variation of that, you HAVE to plan for it from the beginning. See: Guild Wars. Switching midway between is almost always a bad, bad idea.
That's really a shame too. I was excited about this.
Replacing a tactical user-driven content MMO with a venerable lineage (in spirit at least) with another shallow action cash shop game is just tragic. I console myself with the knowledge that it probably was going to suck in the first place.
I think one of the more interesting things in that article is Cryptic basically admitting their cash shop model has diminishing returns, with the implication that the Western method of chopping up all the in-game content to sell back to you piecemeal along with a bunch of "un-cripple your game client" fees is not a sustainable model.
Asian cash shop games are utilizing the same model, it's just more subtle. Try playing Dragon Nest without any cash inventory upgrades as they fill you up with hundreds of magical geegaws that you need to upgrade any item or skill. You'll quickly go insane, even with muling and auctioning (limited auction slots per week unless you cash shop more), in short order.
That's not the issue at all, if you followed the game it wasn't a tactical rpg ever. Was never going to be. Nobody cares.
The issue is the fact that it's 1) Cryptic and 2) they're switching entire genres and dropping the "big" feature (tileset creation whatever blah blah) in part or more likely whole because the "new" genre doesn't work with that. Now, you can recover from doing something that drastic. But Cryptic? Doubt they can, given their track record. They'd be better off dropping it and just working on the MMOs they have instead.
ryptic is putting just as much effort into character customization as you find in other titles from the studio, and user-generated content is similarly being integrated from the ground up. The UGC system promises to be deeply integrated with the game as a whole. We were shown a preliminary version of the game's "landing page," which allows players to view trending player-made content, queue for dungeons, schedule events, and so forth.
Classes&abilities:
While the final class list has yet to be released, the classes are more finely divided from the usual Dungeons & Dragons setup. You don't just play a Wizard or a Rogue; you play a Control Wizard or a Stealth Rogue or an Archery Ranger or something similar. They're builds evocative of certain common playstyles with classes; your Control Wizard doesn't share the abilities of other types of Wizard.
More to the point, there's no pile of abilities to use at any given time. Players have access to a primary and secondary attack, two "special" attacks with short cooldowns, and an ability that has to be charged via Action Points before being unleashed. You also get one last Utility ability such as a quick dodge, a shield block, and so forth... and that's it.
I'm afraid that the bolded has really killed all the hype for me.
It just sounds like a re-skinned Champions Online to me.
It even has a double-tap "dodge" like STO:
My utility ability allowed me to blink about with a short-range teleport, which worked quite intuitively as I double-tapped a direction.
DunxcoShould get a suitNever skips breakfastRegistered Userregular
I did like the look of the video Vamen looked. It looks fun, going to be weird putting on my Darksiders/Zelda hat to play an MMO at my computer. That's what it looks like to me: I love Darksiders and Zelda so converting it to an MMO format sounds interesting.
Good to see them still plugging the Foundry feature, too.
Hmm can't access game related sites here at work, can someone give a TLDR version pls? I just watched the interview with the devs at PAX and it looks really sweet.
But for goose's sake, someone just needs to give us a D&D : Tactics game already. 4e would make the jump so easily.
Throw in a campaign editor and the ability to play with friends (via internet and same console) and you have yourself a good game.
I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. You can even sell DLC very easily . Start with the PH1 classes and races. Release PH2 later for $10 etc. Sell campaigns for a few dollars Premade campaign for levels 1-3 3$. 1-20 $20. As long as the length of the campaigns is true to 4e. (like the weeks I've gotten out of the premade lvl 7-10 campaign my group is still working on.) Then have a community and campaign editor so that people can release their own. You would even have people releasing episodes etc. (Hell release your premade campaigns in episode at $3 a pop for a few levels at a time)
This thing would be a cash cow. You just leverage all the lore and writing you're already doing for table top D&D.
EDIT: My thought is that these campaigns are designed to go from encounter to encounter with just enough story telling in between. Nothing like Baldur's gate but just be a good story.
No raids
No/little PvP (not that this matters in a D&D game so no big deal).
I shall give cryptic a chance with this game, maybe their third time will be a success?
SquiddyBiscuit on
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Great ScottKing of Wishful ThinkingParagon City, RIRegistered Userregular
This looks promising. The screens look too good, but that's a nice thing since I'm sure video cards will get ever-faster and they have some forward-looking graphics targets. 4th Edition would make for a great MMO base... assuming that they don't dumb it down even more (somehow).
I'm mildly concerned about Cryptic's involvement, but then again STO turned out allright.
Posts
Shocking.
This actually sounds to me like a vision infusion by the parent company. They want a competitor to Vindictus and feel the easiest way to do it would be for rework a game in progress.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I'll seriously consider setting some fools house on fire if they turn this into some F2P, Cryptic garbage.
But uh, wtf? This does not bode well at all. A year in development and all of a sudden it's going to be a completely different game? Expect people to jump ship soon and a nearly completely new team going ahead to make a new game from the ground up using only the art assets left behind.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
Now this has caused some bitching by a few outspoken individuals since they don't get the vast majority of things being added to the game for free despite the lifetime, wheras most of it they got prior to F2P (not all of it though, they had a few things in the cash shop prior, just not nearly as much). There are occasionally big releases which everyone gets for free (which are actually well done compared to their launch work) but then queue bitching because the free people get the same thing as subbers and lifers get at no cost. It's a dumb complaint but I do understand, it's like buying a VIP card and then everyone else being allowed into your lounge for free; course if they didn't get it, you'd have instances of people grouping up for content only to have a "PLEASE BUY THIS CONTENT" sign pop up when they tried to go in, though I don't think I've seen a single template toon in any of my high level instance runs ever. Freeform (if you sub you are allowed to choose the powers you want, templates are just that, you have to be all one thing with a few variations) tends to find the content easy, template has issues due to lack of defenses or damage wheras freeform can take both.
OH, on the subject of "what is appropriate in the cash shop" and community reactions to it, long rambling CO gossip:
I did get a good laugh when one of the "regular" posters in the forums who had been around since back at launch got mega pissed that free accounts were not allowed to use freeform toons period, including locking out characters that are freeform when you unsub (templates are still available of course). Made a giant thread where he showed his complete lack of common sense (he had basically been in a giant meltdown spiral ever since a few months after release until he reached an astounding level of bitter vet syndrome a little bit at a time) since the only two things a sub grants a player is a stipend and the ability to use freeforms. Hell, he even admitted in the thread that if he could buy a freeform slot to use unsubbed, he'd never sub again, and he thought ten dollars was a reasonable price for getting everything the game had to offer for free. By the end he was effectively going "either give me everything for free or I'm not paying". When people started outright calling him retarded the thread got locked, so he jumped in game on his now-silver account and spammed the main city chat (which is linked accross instances, so 90% of the game population was treated to this crap) with the same thread arguments that got the same result. A bunch of people were calling for abusing the "report as spam" function to take away his ability to talk, and he shut up abruptly after that.
Anyways, reason I brought it up is the problem with western markets is they don't want to touch anything in the cash shops unless it's a permenent upgrade. Grindy asian MMOs where you can take years to hit the cap make +XP items look good, but in the U.S. if it takes more than a month to hit level cap for those trying to go fast, it's "an asian grind" and nobody will touch it.
Diminishing returns is not exactly tantalizing from a business perspective, but I'm not sure they have any other option. Just spew out things to buy as fast as they can to deal with it.
Oh and as far as neverwinter goes I'm suprised this happened instead of the license just getting yanked leaving it dead in the water. That could still happen of course, and all they would be left with is a generic fantasy MMO (generic because it copies the D&D formula! Ironic if that happens). Cryptic doesn't have the greatest amount of luck nor do they do themselves any favors most of the time, but I honestly don't think the crystal ball is of any help here. Hell it could end up as an FPS down the line at this rate, who the hell knows.
But for goose's sake, someone just needs to give us a D&D : Tactics game already. 4e would make the jump so easily.
I am with you on that. I just want NWN 3. And honestly, 4th ed is really a good choice for a game, its very well balanced between classes and their powers.
And yes, it is pretty much criminal that nobody has made a decent tile-based 4e tactics game yet.
Seriously. What the hell? There's no greater a shift in focus midway through development I can think of, from going from "open ended RPG with development tools you can use to create your own settings" to "another shitty 3rd person action focused Monster Hunter ripoff".
This is why you use unique titles, and not rebrand other games to fit your model. This thing is going to bomb so hard at release if this is where they're taking it.
Edit: Even when the Marvel MMO became Champions, it still didn't swap entire genres. Seriously. What the fuck. Who thought that would be a good idea?
That's really a shame too. I was excited about this.
Replacing a tactical user-driven content MMO with a venerable lineage (in spirit at least) with another shallow action cash shop game is just tragic. I console myself with the knowledge that it probably was going to suck in the first place.
Asian cash shop games are utilizing the same model, it's just more subtle. Try playing Dragon Nest without any cash inventory upgrades as they fill you up with hundreds of magical geegaws that you need to upgrade any item or skill. You'll quickly go insane, even with muling and auctioning (limited auction slots per week unless you cash shop more), in short order.
Oh man. Imagine a Fire Emblem type game running off 4e...
I hope someone with the capacity to make it happen is paying attention.
I'm only hiding behind a chest height wall, though. I haven't reached the next country yet.
Little did I know that it would be this soul crushingly bad.
Still looking forward to a nice IWD3 someday.
Did you not read the announcement on the nigh-complete-180 in the game's direction?
http://pc.ign.com/articles/119/1198498p1.html
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
The issue is the fact that it's 1) Cryptic and 2) they're switching entire genres and dropping the "big" feature (tileset creation whatever blah blah) in part or more likely whole because the "new" genre doesn't work with that. Now, you can recover from doing something that drastic. But Cryptic? Doubt they can, given their track record. They'd be better off dropping it and just working on the MMOs they have instead.
Someone needs to get slapped for this.
Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
Check the Facebook game I think WotC is making.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
massively.joystiq.com/2012/04/06/pax-east-2012-cryptic-shows-new-neverwinter-trailer/
Looking forward towards hands-on impressions from PAX
Makes it all feel better after work.
Foundry:
Classes&abilities:
I'm afraid that the bolded has really killed all the hype for me.
It just sounds like a re-skinned Champions Online to me.
It even has a double-tap "dodge" like STO:
Terrible sound and not a great interviewer, but you can see the gameplay.
Good to see them still plugging the Foundry feature, too.
still wouldn't mind session based quests, like Vindictus or Monster Hunter though. actually enjoy that
Throw in a campaign editor and the ability to play with friends (via internet and same console) and you have yourself a good game.
I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. You can even sell DLC very easily . Start with the PH1 classes and races. Release PH2 later for $10 etc. Sell campaigns for a few dollars Premade campaign for levels 1-3 3$. 1-20 $20. As long as the length of the campaigns is true to 4e. (like the weeks I've gotten out of the premade lvl 7-10 campaign my group is still working on.) Then have a community and campaign editor so that people can release their own. You would even have people releasing episodes etc. (Hell release your premade campaigns in episode at $3 a pop for a few levels at a time)
This thing would be a cash cow. You just leverage all the lore and writing you're already doing for table top D&D.
EDIT: My thought is that these campaigns are designed to go from encounter to encounter with just enough story telling in between. Nothing like Baldur's gate but just be a good story.
3DS FC: 5086-1134-6451
Shiny Code: 3837
What new stuff I got it from it:
No raids
No/little PvP (not that this matters in a D&D game so no big deal).
I shall give cryptic a chance with this game, maybe their third time will be a success?
I'm mildly concerned about Cryptic's involvement, but then again STO turned out allright.
http://www.elecplay.com/all/spotlight/neverwinter-mmo-early-look-video/
I guess I gave it like, 6 years.