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Let's talk Japan

2

Posts

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck NONSTOP INFINITE CLIMAX POSTING you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    morninglord thats exactly how studios like, say, rockstar north work in the uk

    theyd never recoup their costs on the domestic british market...

    obF2Wuw.png
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    I read through all those articles an it's definitely interesting. I looked up AKB48 and wow...It's like if Menudo had the full lineup at the same time. Why are there so many of them? Why does the music sound dated?

  • bloodyroarxxbloodyroarxx Registered User regular
    Just my 2 cents on the issue and just really about Square Enix, I really don't understand how they are in business.

    Between stuff like HD towns being too expensive to create when asked about them not being in FF13 to the insane ongoing 6 years of development for Versus 13 and the debacle what is the 1.0 release of FF14. It becomes clear that:

    A) They are a terribly mismanaged company internally

    B) They have spread Tetsuya Normura too thin (weather by SE's hand or his own) since Versus 13 was announced in 2006 he has been involved with 14 games including directing and cowriting 5 of them (6 if you count KH:coded and RE-coded as individuals).

    They say things like a FF7 remake would be too costly, almost makes ZERO sence to me considering aside from some expansions of the script to incorporate some of the additions to the universe since its release, and a re translation for the west there isn't much creative work to be done. Its all just recreating the old assets in higher fidelity, its such a easily lucrative project for them its not funny they could literally farm it out to any company weather it be Tri-ace or Tose or hell even a studio in the west. its just programming and asset creation.

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    morninglord thats exactly how studios like, say, rockstar north work in the uk

    theyd never recoup their costs on the domestic british market...

    Well there are always exceptions and outliers. I don't think you are going to find many examples equivelant to rockstar's brands and situations in many countries.

    Morninglord on
    Location: Sydney, Australia
    My Dark Souls 2 Diary Day 6 and 7 Updated
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    morninglord thats exactly how studios like, say, rockstar north work in the uk

    theyd never recoup their costs on the domestic british market...

    Well there are always exceptions and outliers. I don't think you are going to find many examples equivelant to rockstar's brands in many countries.

    His point alludes to something I was getting at where Western publishers view the entire round-eye world as a domestic market.

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    mrt144 wrote: »
    morninglord thats exactly how studios like, say, rockstar north work in the uk

    theyd never recoup their costs on the domestic british market...

    Well there are always exceptions and outliers. I don't think you are going to find many examples equivelant to rockstar's brands in many countries.

    His point alludes to something I was getting at where Western publishers view the entire round-eye world as a domestic market.

    I don't disagree with your points btw. I wasn't bringing it up as a counter to anyone. I just wanted to discuss it because I see it a lot.
    Rather than restricting it to country I guess I should have said culture.
    While culturally different in many ways, gaming wise asia and western cultural spheres have more than enough similarities that they don't need to specifically make them for westerners. We aren't all that different, not enough that they need to go out of their way. What happens that fosters this impression is seeing the niche games for the subgroups that have a large share of the buying power in japan. And you don't often see those come over.

    Morninglord on
    Location: Sydney, Australia
    My Dark Souls 2 Diary Day 6 and 7 Updated
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    mrt144 wrote: »
    morninglord thats exactly how studios like, say, rockstar north work in the uk

    theyd never recoup their costs on the domestic british market...

    Well there are always exceptions and outliers. I don't think you are going to find many examples equivelant to rockstar's brands in many countries.

    His point alludes to something I was getting at where Western publishers view the entire round-eye world as a domestic market.

    I think this is because western POP* culture is much more homogenous than eastern culture. Due in large part to the United State's largest export being media.

    *POP culture, not culture in general

    TheSonicRetard on
  • RohanRohan Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Outside of Nintendo, who appear to have worldwide appeal, Japan's games have never really appealed to me. I was never a big fan of anime, which definitely had an impact on my gaming tastes. Anime didn't exist in Ireland until the release of Akira, and I was nonplussed by it. While I've come to appreciate some anime, such as Miyazaki's work and shows like K-On!, my flatmates watch stuff like One Piece and I'm always left scratching my head as to why they like it. As such, Japanese software in general doesn't really appeal to me. I have played a few Final Fantasy games, but am forever confused why most of the guys look so female. The first games in the series I encountered were VII and VIII, and the game mechanics did not impress me in the slightest - they were basically the same games as the old AD&D games I played on my C64 back in 1991, just dressed up with prettier graphics and cgi sequences. I liked VIII in the end, but VII with it's comically-proportioned characters never grew on me.

    It's just as well that I didn't have a PS2 because a massive portion of it's library appear to be Japanese games. When a Danish friend of ours came to live here a few years ago, she brought her original model PS3 with her along with her PS2 collection. As she didn't have a television for a few months, she kept the PS3 in our apartment and would call down to use it. I remember my flat-mate (who felt much the same way I did) and I scratching our heads at the Japanese-origin games. I tried a few, but I remember them being difficult to get into or understand. I'm sure that if I had the time to spend with them, I would have found a few gems and really enjoyed them, but as it was they had weirdly long names such as Ar Tonelico - Melody of MetaFalica or something like that, and next to the European and American titles they held no real interest. Even Japanese games that I do like, such as Final Fantasy VIII or Shenmue are weirdly user-unfriendly at times - FFVIII's junctioning system, along with everything else to do with those menus, are something I could never use properly. Every time I played VIII I would skip through the tutorials as quickly as possible, and missed out on so much as a result. Continuing with VIII, having to draw magic out of monsters? Fuck. That. This weird insistence on using such odd magical systems is one plodding aspect of JRPG's that could use a good culling.

    I remember when Sega purchased The Creative Assembly, and fearing for the life of my beloved Total War creators. Sega have made some really bad business decisions over the years, as evidenced by their exit from the console market (though the Dreamcast was great), the decline of their arcade business and Sega America's jettisoning of all but a few developers only a few weeks ago. Sega and The Creative Assembly don't mix well in my mind, and the recent bad news has not instilled any confidence in me. I think it is a shame that the Japanese industry has suffered so much this past generation, but it really wouldn't affect me too much.

    Unless Nintendo dies.

    Rohan on
    ...and I thought of how all those people died, and what a good death that is. That nobody can blame you for it, because everyone else died along with you, and it is the fault of none, save those who did the killing.

    Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I wouldn't say pop culture is necessarily homogenous. I'd more say what is crafted here is homogenous. It's all sort of...samey...in a lot of ways.

    Morninglord on
    Location: Sydney, Australia
    My Dark Souls 2 Diary Day 6 and 7 Updated
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    Rohan wrote: »
    Outside of Nintendo, who appear to have worldwide appeal, Japan's games have never really appealed to me. I was never a big fan of anime, which definitely had an impact on my gaming tastes. Anime didn't exist in Ireland until the release of Akira, and I was nonplussed by it. While I've come to appreciate some anime, such as Miyazaki's work and shows like K-On!, my flatmates watch stuff like One Piece and I'm always left scratching my head as to why they like it. As such, Japanese software in general doesn't really appeal to me. I have played a few Final Fantasy games, but am forever confused why most of the guys look so female. The first games in the series I encountered were VII and VIII, and the game mechanics did not impress me in the slightest - they were basically the same games as the old AD&D games I played on my C64 back in 1991, just dressed up with prettier graphics and cgi sequences. I liked VIII in the end, but VII with it's comically-proportioned characters never grew on me.

    It's just as well that I didn't have a PS2 because a massive portion of it's library appear to be Japanese games. When a Danish friend of ours came to live here a few years ago, she brought her original model PS3 with her along with her PS2 collection. As she didn't have a television for a few months, she kept the PS3 in our apartment and would call down to use it. I remember my flat-mate (who felt much the same way I did) and I scratching our heads at the Japanese-origin games. I tried a few, but I remember them being difficult to get into or understand. I'm sure that if I had the time to spend with them, I would have found a few gems and really enjoyed them, but as it was they had weirdly long names such as Ar Tonelico - Melody of MetaFalica or something like that, and next to the European and American titles they held no real interest. Even Japanese games that I do like, such as Final Fantasy VIII or Shenmue are weirdly user-unfriendly at times - FFVIII's junctioning system, along with everything else to do with those menus, are something I could never use properly. Every time I played VIII I would skip through the tutorials as quickly as possible, and missed out on so much as a result. Continuing with VIII, having to draw magic out of monsters? Fuck. That. This weird insistence on using such odd magical systems is one plodding aspect of JRPG's that could use a good culling.

    I remember when Sega purchased The Creative Assembly, and fearing for the life of my beloved Total War creators. Sega have made some really bad business decisions over the years, as evidenced by their exit from the console market (though the Dreamcast was great), the decline of their arcade business and Sega America's jettisoning of all but a few developers only a few weeks ago. Sega and The Creative Assembly don't mix well in my mind, and the recent bad news has not instilled any confidence in me. I think it is a shame that the Japanese industry has suffered so much this past generation, but it really wouldn't affect me too much.

    Unless Nintendo dies.

    My gaming history has been from all over. I've played both eastern and western games as long as I've played games period. For every memory I have playing Wonderboy, I have another memory playing Toejam & Earl. For every memory I have of playing Street Fighter 2, there's another memory of me playing Mortal Kombat. I fondly remember the output of Red Entertainment with games like Gates of Thunder, the same way i fondly remember the output of Epic Megagames with games like Jazz Jackrabbit.

    I've always been fairly region agnostic - I've lived in the Us my whole life, but a huge portion of my collection was either released in europe exclusively or japan exclusively. In truth, I consume games from all over, and I don't really like seeing any one region struggle.

  • DusdaDusda is ashamed of this post Registered User regular
    I don't really see why modern JRPG's can't be more accessible. Look at Chrono Trigger. It has tons of weird esoteric crap in it (Nagette Bromide!) yet somehow everyone loves it, because it makes sense and doesn't waste your time.

    Just don't use a bunch of convoluted terminology to make things look more complicated than they really are (FFXIII, every SRPG, nearly every crafting system ever), don't take forever to get started (Kingdom Hearts, Tactics Ogre, Persona series), and refrain from stupid titles (Final Fantasy XIII Duodecim 012 Madeupword Freedom United 6). While you're at it, make secondary world building stuff an optional affair (See Mass Effect), and hire a proper editor that knows how to make a goddamn love story scene not take ten minutes (FFXIII, Snow and whatshername).

    Seriously, if they would just cut the bullshit and do some decent editing, the genre would be much more bearable. Then just do some decent marketing, and people over here might just hear about it. None of this is difficult.

    There is no reason these games need to be so incoherent and overwrought. I mean, people give Kojima a lot of shit for his overindulgence (and he deserves it), but at least he has the good sense to start a game with a bang.

    and this sig. and this blog..
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    mrt144 wrote: »
    morninglord thats exactly how studios like, say, rockstar north work in the uk

    theyd never recoup their costs on the domestic british market...

    Well there are always exceptions and outliers. I don't think you are going to find many examples equivelant to rockstar's brands in many countries.

    His point alludes to something I was getting at where Western publishers view the entire round-eye world as a domestic market.

    I don't disagree with your points btw. I wasn't bringing it up as a counter to anyone. I just wanted to discuss it because I see it a lot.
    Rather than restricting it to country I guess I should have said culture.
    While culturally different in many ways, gaming wise asia and western cultural spheres have more than enough similarities that they don't need to specifically make them for westerners. We aren't all that different, not enough that they need to go out of their way. What happens that fosters this impression is seeing the niche games for the subgroups that have a large share of the buying power in japan. And you don't often see those come over.

    Well, I think if we reverse the question, of "Why is Japan struggling to produce international gaming hits like yesteryear" to "Why is the west still unable to enter the market in Japan in any meaningful way" I think the cultural divide is greater than you could imagine. What is it about western games that doesn't appeal to the Japanese game consumer? Is it the platform? Is it the genre? Is it the aesthetic? Is it the subject matter? Is it the difficulty of localization?

    To me, the constant failure of the west to capitalize on games in Japan reveals the baseline of cross cultural gaming pollination available. That Japan is now focusing on more fragmented segments that don't cross pollinate well at all seems like a new development that can really only be reconciled by the publishers and powers that be in Japan's gaming sphere. It isn't to say that they have to make stuff specifically for western audiences, but that there are countless westerners with cash in hand wanting games in a 90s-2000s japanese pastiche that simply aren't being produced en masse anymore.

    mrt144 on
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    mrt144 wrote: »
    "Why is the west still unable to enter the market in Japan in any meaningful way"

    Because the general population don't have the money to buy such games like westerners as was already explained and the titles we send over there don't appeal to the niche groups that have most of the buying power. No really. That's the reason. Economic differences, not cultural ones. That question has been answered and done.
    The link is in the op if you want more information.

    Morninglord on
    Location: Sydney, Australia
    My Dark Souls 2 Diary Day 6 and 7 Updated
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • AkilaeAkilae Registered User regular
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Well, I think if we reverse the question, of "Why is Japan struggling to produce international gaming hits like yesteryear" to "Why is the west still unable to enter the market in Japan in any meaningful way" I think the cultural divide is greater than you could imagine. What is it about western games that doesn't appeal to the Japanese game consumer? Is it the platform? Is it the genre? Is it the aesthetic? Is it the subject matter? Is it the difficulty of localization?

    Would YOU want to play Power DoLLS, Princess Maker, Super Robot Taisen, Onechanbara, Nobunaga's Ambition, or Romance of the Three Kingdoms?

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Akilae wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Well, I think if we reverse the question, of "Why is Japan struggling to produce international gaming hits like yesteryear" to "Why is the west still unable to enter the market in Japan in any meaningful way" I think the cultural divide is greater than you could imagine. What is it about western games that doesn't appeal to the Japanese game consumer? Is it the platform? Is it the genre? Is it the aesthetic? Is it the subject matter? Is it the difficulty of localization?

    Would YOU want to play Power DoLLS, Princess Maker, Super Robot Taisen, Onechanbara, Nobunaga's Ambition, or Romance of the Three Kingdoms?

    They're all meant for the three niche groups that hold the majority of the buying power in japan and are not an appropriate comparison to make when speaking of the general japanese population.

    I think that some choice parts of that link need to be in the op because it's getting ignored even though it answers these questions.

    The majority of japanese people don't buy video games period. They can't afford them. They used to be able to. This is the answer to the changes over time and the reason that highly general western blockbuster games can't make an impact. Even if they like them, they cannot buy them. The ones who can buy them will not because they're not interested since they're only buying products to keep their social standing in their subculture.

    Morninglord on
    Location: Sydney, Australia
    My Dark Souls 2 Diary Day 6 and 7 Updated
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    mrt144 wrote: »
    "Why is the west still unable to enter the market in Japan in any meaningful way"

    Because the general population don't have the money to buy such games like westerners as was already explained and the titles we send over there don't appeal to the niche groups that have most of the buying power. No really. That's the reason. Economic differences, not cultural ones. That question has been answered and done.
    The link is in the op if you want more information.

    When the general population had greater purchasing power when did it purchase Western games?

  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Akilae wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Well, I think if we reverse the question, of "Why is Japan struggling to produce international gaming hits like yesteryear" to "Why is the west still unable to enter the market in Japan in any meaningful way" I think the cultural divide is greater than you could imagine. What is it about western games that doesn't appeal to the Japanese game consumer? Is it the platform? Is it the genre? Is it the aesthetic? Is it the subject matter? Is it the difficulty of localization?

    Would YOU want to play Power DoLLS, Princess Maker, Super Robot Taisen, Onechanbara, Nobunaga's Ambition, or Romance of the Three Kingdoms?

    They're all meant for the three niche groups that hold the majority of the buying power in japan and are not an appropriate comparison to make when speaking of the general japanese population.

    I think that some choice parts of that link need to be in the op because it's getting ignored even though it answers these questions.

    The majority of japanese people don't buy video games period. They can't afford them. They used to be able to. This is the answer to the changes over time and the reason that highly general western blockbuster games can't make an impact. Even if they like them, they cannot buy them. The ones who can buy them will not because they're not interested since they're only buying products to keep their social standing in their subculture.

    When you say they can't afford them, what does that mean? Like, 4899 Yen is a large sum of money that one couldn't afford in 1 month?

    mrt144 on
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    mrt144 wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    "Why is the west still unable to enter the market in Japan in any meaningful way"

    Because the general population don't have the money to buy such games like westerners as was already explained and the titles we send over there don't appeal to the niche groups that have most of the buying power. No really. That's the reason. Economic differences, not cultural ones. That question has been answered and done.
    The link is in the op if you want more information.

    When the general population had greater purchasing power when did it purchase Western games?

    When the general population had greater purchasing power, console western games didn't exist in the numbers they did today. But, yes, japanese people bought western blockbusters brought over to Japan. Toejam & Earl, for example, sold well in Japan. So did Sonic Spinball.

    There was a topic a few days ago about JRPGs vs WRPGs, where people were honestly trying to call WIzardry a "JRPG" because japan latched onto that series more-so than the general population in the US, and has produced more clones throughout history.

    And to the person who said Chrono Trigger was a big hit - it was a relatively big hit, yes. It's well regarded, and had a big campaign behind it for the time. Yet, compared to big hits today, and even big hits of the time, it was not a monster game in terms of sales.

    That the DS port didn't set the sales charts on fire should show just how niche even the best regarded games in the genre are. Outside of the megahit FFVII, no JRPG has really broken through to the general gaming crowd that buys stuff like Mass Effect to the tune of tens of millions.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    I actually favor a lot of "smaller" Japanese publishers--for example, my favorite Japanese publisher, SNK, easily among my favorite publishes anywhere.

    I don't think it's worth discounting since if I discounted smaller American or British publishers and developers, that would get rid of a lot of my favorites on that end either. *shrug*

    There's a gap, I guess. Despite being treated as the Second Coming of Jesus here, Uncharted isn't exactly setting Japan on fire, and that's one of the more popular major western franchises to breakthrough over there, along with AC, right? Bioware, for example, to the best of my knowledge is a medium-size blip that is very hit or miss. Sound familiar? *cough*SE*cough*

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote: »
    I actually favor a lot of "smaller" Japanese publishers--for example, my favorite Japanese publisher, SNK, easily among my favorite publishes anywhere.

    I don't think it's worth discounting since if I discounted smaller American or British publishers and developers, that would get rid of a lot of my favorites on that end either. *shrug*

    There's a gap, I guess. Despite being treated as the Second Coming of Jesus here, Uncharted isn't exactly setting Japan on fire, and that's one of the more popular major western franchises to breakthrough over there, along with AC, right? Bioware, for example, to the best of my knowledge is a medium-size blip that is very hit or miss. Sound familiar? *cough*SE*cough*

    As has been said many times in this topic alone, the majority of japanese people don't buy video games period. Using a game like Uncharted as an analogue to Square-Enix's output is glossing over the very real trends that dominate japanese media consumption.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck NONSTOP INFINITE CLIMAX POSTING you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    ive always wondered if the japanese gaming community is rude about japanese gamers who primarily prefer western games

    the japanese equivalent of weeaboo

    obF2Wuw.png
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    mrt144 wrote: »
    When you say they can't afford them, what does that mean? Like, 4899 Yen is a large sum of money that one couldn't afford in 1 month?

    Not necessarily that they can't afford them as in, 5000 yen is too much money, but rather that japan is in a deep recession right now and most people in japan don't spend money period. This is a massive problem pervading japan at the moment.

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    ive always wondered if the japanese gaming community is rude about japanese gamers who primarily prefer western games

    the japanese equivalent of weeaboo

    There is a prominent saying in japan amongst the otaku crowd: "yoge kusoge" which means, "western game, shit game." There is a very snobby atmosphere amongst the niche groups about western games.

    But that is not the general perception of the masses, only those niches.

  • interrobanginterrobang kawaii as  hellRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    ive always wondered if the japanese gaming community is rude about japanese gamers who primarily prefer western games

    the japanese equivalent of weeaboo
    Spoiler:

    interrobang on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Synthesis wrote: »
    I actually favor a lot of "smaller" Japanese publishers--for example, my favorite Japanese publisher, SNK, easily among my favorite publishes anywhere.

    I don't think it's worth discounting since if I discounted smaller American or British publishers and developers, that would get rid of a lot of my favorites on that end either. *shrug*

    There's a gap, I guess. Despite being treated as the Second Coming of Jesus here, Uncharted isn't exactly setting Japan on fire, and that's one of the more popular major western franchises to breakthrough over there, along with AC, right? Bioware, for example, to the best of my knowledge is a medium-size blip that is very hit or miss. Sound familiar? *cough*SE*cough*

    As has been said many times in this topic alone, the majority of japanese people don't buy video games period. Using a game like Uncharted as an analogue to Square-Enix's output is glossing over the very real trends that dominate japanese media consumption.

    True, I meant that in comparitive terms among the gaming community that does exist and does buy games. It's the only thing I can personally reference.

    Honestly, I'm not exactly convinced a majority of Americans--313 million of them--buy games either. Certainly not by anything we'd call "regularly". I mean, there's the spending capability, but that's because the current economic norm allows for Americans to have more family-level debt than the rest of the world (possible combined), part of which which can go to buying video games. Personally, I don't think we're terribly indicative of America's population as a whole (god knows every internet forum has that problem).
    ive always wondered if the japanese gaming community is rude about japanese gamers who primarily prefer western games

    the japanese equivalent of weeaboo

    When I was in Yokohama, I was one. So, there was at least one at some point. But I was a foreign national.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote: »
    I actually favor a lot of "smaller" Japanese publishers--for example, my favorite Japanese publisher, SNK, easily among my favorite publishes anywhere.

    I don't think it's worth discounting since if I discounted smaller American or British publishers and developers, that would get rid of a lot of my favorites on that end either. *shrug*

    There's a gap, I guess. Despite being treated as the Second Coming of Jesus here, Uncharted isn't exactly setting Japan on fire, and that's one of the more popular major western franchises to breakthrough over there, along with AC, right? Bioware, for example, to the best of my knowledge is a medium-size blip that is very hit or miss. Sound familiar? *cough*SE*cough*

    As has been said many times in this topic alone, the majority of japanese people don't buy video games period. Using a game like Uncharted as an analogue to Square-Enix's output is glossing over the very real trends that dominate japanese media consumption.

    True, I meant that in comparitive terms among the gaming community that does exist and does buy games. It's the only thing I can personally reference.

    Honestly, I'm not exactly convinced a majority of Americans--313 million of them--buy games either. Certainly not by anything we'd call "regularly".
    ive always wondered if the japanese gaming community is rude about japanese gamers who primarily prefer western games

    the japanese equivalent of weeaboo

    When I was in Yokohama, I was one. So, there was at least one at some point. But I was a foreign national.

    The latest neilsen report on video games found that 70% of Americans buy and play video games today.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote: »
    I actually favor a lot of "smaller" Japanese publishers--for example, my favorite Japanese publisher, SNK, easily among my favorite publishes anywhere.

    I don't think it's worth discounting since if I discounted smaller American or British publishers and developers, that would get rid of a lot of my favorites on that end either. *shrug*

    There's a gap, I guess. Despite being treated as the Second Coming of Jesus here, Uncharted isn't exactly setting Japan on fire, and that's one of the more popular major western franchises to breakthrough over there, along with AC, right? Bioware, for example, to the best of my knowledge is a medium-size blip that is very hit or miss. Sound familiar? *cough*SE*cough*

    As has been said many times in this topic alone, the majority of japanese people don't buy video games period. Using a game like Uncharted as an analogue to Square-Enix's output is glossing over the very real trends that dominate japanese media consumption.

    True, I meant that in comparitive terms among the gaming community that does exist and does buy games. It's the only thing I can personally reference.

    Honestly, I'm not exactly convinced a majority of Americans--313 million of them--buy games either. Certainly not by anything we'd call "regularly".
    ive always wondered if the japanese gaming community is rude about japanese gamers who primarily prefer western games

    the japanese equivalent of weeaboo

    When I was in Yokohama, I was one. So, there was at least one at some point. But I was a foreign national.

    The latest neilsen report on video games found that 70% of Americans buy and play video games today.

    Really? I stand correcting, if that's accurate. Can you supply a link, I'd like to see how that was calculated, and if it accounts for smart phone games separately from handhelds, consoles and PCs.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    mrt144 wrote: »
    When you say they can't afford them, what does that mean? Like, 4899 Yen is a large sum of money that one couldn't afford in 1 month?

    Not necessarily that they can't afford them as in, 5000 yen is too much money, but rather that japan is in a deep recession right now and most people in japan don't spend money period. This is a massive problem pervading japan at the moment.

    Well yeah, but the propensity for not spending money has been a way of life for how long? I think we're just seeing the extreme conclusion of cultural and economic trends in Japan.


  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    exactly

    i want to know if that subculture exists, and are they as reviled as the weeaboos

    At the very least, I wonder if they're as reviled as "nerds" are here (here being where I am anyway).

    God knows it's a social pariah here, even in a major college town.

    EDIT: Fixed for weird ass board behavior putting a later post before an earlier one.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck NONSTOP INFINITE CLIMAX POSTING you must go on i cant go on ill go onRegistered User regular
    exactly

    i want to know if that subculture exists, and are they as reviled as the weeaboos

    obF2Wuw.png
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote: »
    I actually favor a lot of "smaller" Japanese publishers--for example, my favorite Japanese publisher, SNK, easily among my favorite publishes anywhere.

    I don't think it's worth discounting since if I discounted smaller American or British publishers and developers, that would get rid of a lot of my favorites on that end either. *shrug*

    There's a gap, I guess. Despite being treated as the Second Coming of Jesus here, Uncharted isn't exactly setting Japan on fire, and that's one of the more popular major western franchises to breakthrough over there, along with AC, right? Bioware, for example, to the best of my knowledge is a medium-size blip that is very hit or miss. Sound familiar? *cough*SE*cough*

    As has been said many times in this topic alone, the majority of japanese people don't buy video games period. Using a game like Uncharted as an analogue to Square-Enix's output is glossing over the very real trends that dominate japanese media consumption.

    True, I meant that in comparitive terms among the gaming community that does exist and does buy games. It's the only thing I can personally reference.

    Honestly, I'm not exactly convinced a majority of Americans--313 million of them--buy games either. Certainly not by anything we'd call "regularly".
    ive always wondered if the japanese gaming community is rude about japanese gamers who primarily prefer western games

    the japanese equivalent of weeaboo

    When I was in Yokohama, I was one. So, there was at least one at some point. But I was a foreign national.

    The latest neilsen report on video games found that 70% of Americans buy and play video games today.

    70% of americans or american households? because households is totally believable.

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    mrt144 wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    When you say they can't afford them, what does that mean? Like, 4899 Yen is a large sum of money that one couldn't afford in 1 month?

    Not necessarily that they can't afford them as in, 5000 yen is too much money, but rather that japan is in a deep recession right now and most people in japan don't spend money period. This is a massive problem pervading japan at the moment.

    Well yeah, but the propensity for not spending money has been a way of life for how long? I think we're just seeing the extreme conclusion of cultural and economic trends in Japan.


    It might historically be a way of life, but the 70's, 80's, and 90's certainly did not adhere to that norm. At the minimum, you can say Japan went through a 20 year period where they were not stingy with their consumer spending.

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote: »
    I actually favor a lot of "smaller" Japanese publishers--for example, my favorite Japanese publisher, SNK, easily among my favorite publishes anywhere.

    I don't think it's worth discounting since if I discounted smaller American or British publishers and developers, that would get rid of a lot of my favorites on that end either. *shrug*

    There's a gap, I guess. Despite being treated as the Second Coming of Jesus here, Uncharted isn't exactly setting Japan on fire, and that's one of the more popular major western franchises to breakthrough over there, along with AC, right? Bioware, for example, to the best of my knowledge is a medium-size blip that is very hit or miss. Sound familiar? *cough*SE*cough*

    As has been said many times in this topic alone, the majority of japanese people don't buy video games period. Using a game like Uncharted as an analogue to Square-Enix's output is glossing over the very real trends that dominate japanese media consumption.

    True, I meant that in comparitive terms among the gaming community that does exist and does buy games. It's the only thing I can personally reference.

    Honestly, I'm not exactly convinced a majority of Americans--313 million of them--buy games either. Certainly not by anything we'd call "regularly".
    ive always wondered if the japanese gaming community is rude about japanese gamers who primarily prefer western games

    the japanese equivalent of weeaboo

    When I was in Yokohama, I was one. So, there was at least one at some point. But I was a foreign national.

    The latest neilsen report on video games found that 70% of Americans buy and play video games today.

    70% of americans or american households? because households is totally believable.


    70% of Americans:

    http://www.military.com/entertainment/games/game-news/70-percent-of-americans-play-video-games

    And I'm sorry, this is from 2008. I'd imagine the number has dipped a bit, but it should be largely the same. I remember seeing a similarly shocking report a while back that went something like 1-in-X number of Americans identify themselves as a Gamer, where X was a single digit number.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    It is (not incorrectly) also lumping in PC gaming as well.

    Under that kind of qualification, I wouldn't be surprised if 70% (or 80%) of the population of Taiwan played video games in some form. Not applicable to Japan, of course, because I don't think MMOs are as popular there by comparison.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    exactly

    i want to know if that subculture exists, and are they as reviled as the weeaboos

    there is definitely a subculture in japan that is yo-crazy (yo being a prefix for anything western, yoryori, for example, being western food). There are entire districts in japan set on emulating a typical western city.

    I don't think they're reviled, though. Japan has, since they first made contact with the western world, viewed themselves as a western nation living in the east. You can see this reflected through art from the time period where they made western contact, where they began drawing themselves with more western features, even when other asians were drawn with typical asian features in the same paintings and drawings. Japan, especially since the 1950's following post-WWII occupation, has sought to emulate western culture.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote: »
    It is (not incorrectly) also lumping in PC gaming as well.

    Under that kind of qualification, I wouldn't be surprised if 70% (or 80%) of the population of Taiwan played video games in some form. Not applicable to Japan, of course, because I don't think MMOs are as popular there by comparison.

    That would be because PCs in general are not popular in japan. The personal computer never really took off in japan, unlike europe where Atari and Commodore dominated until Windows came about, and the US where the IBM clone essentially WAS PC gaming until the same happened. Japan has had periods where niche computers became dominant - the MSX, the PC-88, the Sharp x68k, etc - but no single computer format ever really took hold, and today PC gaming is an incredible niche in japan. Most people access the internet in japan not via a computer, but from their mobile devices. That also explains why certain features of the PS3, Wii, 3DS, and especially the Vita are there - they're intended to be a major part of how japan gets online period.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    exactly

    i want to know if that subculture exists, and are they as reviled as the weeaboos

    there is definitely a subculture in japan that is yo-crazy (yo being a prefix for anything western, yoryoori, for example, being western food). There are entire districts in japan set on emulating a typical western city.

    I don't think they're reviled, though. Japan has, since they first made contact with the western world, viewed themselves as a western nation living in the east. You can see this reflected through art from the time period where they made western contact, where they began drawing themselves with more western features, even when other asians were drawn with typical asian features in the same paintings and drawings. Japan, especially since the 1950's following post-WWII occupation, has sought to emulate western culture.

    Though it's not a nation-changing thing, as a consequence of cosmopolitan culture and demographics (immigrants, particularly 'western' ones, including Australians are concentrated heavily in Yokohama and elsewhere in Kanto), you get a small number overwhelmingly Anglosphere-neighborhoods. And a consequence of urbanization is that it would literally be impossible never to interact with this communities in some particular way, even if you didn't live in Yamate, if you were one of the tens of millions of people in nearby wards.

    This happens in Taiwan regularly (and I want to say South Korea, though that's more of a military thing), which has way smaller Anglophone communities than big Japanese cities of the same size (made more evident by being even more urbanized than Japan).

    Of course, you'll also get lots of small cities with no Anglophones living in them period. Some distance away.
    Synthesis wrote: »
    It is (not incorrectly) also lumping in PC gaming as well.

    Under that kind of qualification, I wouldn't be surprised if 70% (or 80%) of the population of Taiwan played video games in some form. Not applicable to Japan, of course, because I don't think MMOs are as popular there by comparison.

    That would be because PCs in general are not popular in japan. The personal computer never really took off in japan, unlike europe where Atari and Commodore dominated until Windows came about, and the US where the IBM clone essentially WAS PC gaming until the same happened. Japan has had periods where niche computers became dominant - the MSX, the PC-88, the Sharp x68k, etc - but no single computer format ever really took hold, and today PC gaming is an incredible niche in japan. Most people access the internet in japan not via a computer, but from their mobile devices. That also explains why certain features of the PS3, Wii, 3DS, and especially the Vita are there - they're intended to be a major part of how japan gets online period.

    The same could be said about phone games in the US until quite recently (we very recently passed the point of more smart phones than feature phones, if I'm remembering correctly). I wouldn't be surprised if phone games were still more popular in Japan, but that may be a past trend. I'd love to see some numbers on that.

    Also, minor nitpick but it is worth considering--70% of Americans play video games. Not buy. Inevitably there will be more players than buyers, unless we somehow switched over to a Gamestop-based economy. The article actually says very little about actually purchasing, but that's understandably harder to calculate, except that multiple-console owning percentages are "low" (still higher than I expected). I'd be really surprised if 158 million* Americans regularly bought video games (or even irregularly), but I could be wrong--the played numbers surprised me too.

    *Fewer in 2008, of course, and I'm pretty sure Americans have less disposable income now than they did then.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    And to the person who said Chrono Trigger was a big hit - it was a relatively big hit, yes. It's well regarded, and had a big campaign behind it for the time. Yet, compared to big hits today, and even big hits of the time, it was not a monster game in terms of sales.

    That the DS port didn't set the sales charts on fire should show just how niche even the best regarded games in the genre are.

    It's surprising that the DS port sold anything at all considering how expensive it was for a port ($40 for a SNES port with a few minor changes whereas plenty of brand new RPGs sell for less on the system).
    Outside of the megahit FFVII, no JRPG has really broken through to the general gaming crowd that buys stuff like Mass Effect to the tune of tens of millions.

    Pokemon says hi. One of the best selling series of all time and its gameplay is as standard JRPG fare as they come.

    Also, you're overestimating how well Mass Effect sells. From 2007-2011, the entire series combined had only sold 7+ million copies worldwide (http://www.examiner.com/video-game-in-national/mass-effect-series-sales-total-over-7-million ). Assuming even sales split between the first two games that's like 3-4 million a piece worldwide. Good sales, but I daresay FFXIII (and many other high profile JRPGs) sold better in the US (and definitely sold better worldwide).

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    The mass effect games have diminishing sales - not everyone who played ME1 played ME2, and with each iteration the barrier to entry becomes higher because they're a direct continuation of a single story. FFXIII was the 13th installment of a long running, highly regarded series, whose entries are independent of one another. Not really the same.

    And I'd love to see some sales figures to back up the claim that FFXIII sold more in the US than the mass effect series. Because I remember it being still born at launch.

    EDIT: As for pokemon... really? You're going to ignore all the fluff with the series - the trading cards, the anime, the movies, the toys, everything auxillary to the games themselves which drove the sales of said series, and pretend that it's testament to JRPGs global influence?

    I'd say Pokemon's success, couple with Skylander's, shows that anything marketed to exploit children can be successful.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    Mass Effect has sold about 10 million over the entire series. FF XIII sold 6.65. So no, FFXIII hasn't sold more than the entire ME series. . .but you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who says FF XIII is the loser in this comparison.

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
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