[Chat], and the world [chats] with you; [Brainstorm], and you [brainstorm] alone.

ElJeffe · April 2012

I poked around regarding exclusivity and the consensus seemed to be that: first, failure to grant exclusivity will rarely cause an agent to just reject you entirely, but rather they might just not get back to you as quickly; and second, that anywhere between 2-4 weeks is reasonable when you're talking about a partial request.

I wound up offering him 3 weeks. I was going to do two, but then I realized how cool it would be to be two degrees of separation from Bjork (who apparently has written a book).

geardrops · April 2012

ElJeffe wrote: »

I got my first partial request! Like, by an agent! Who reads books! Assuming my research is correct! Woo!

I've heard everything from "omg grant exclusives" to "fuck people who asks for exclusives" (I think it was Janet Reid who was saying that latter one? sounds like her).

Frankly, from what I've read, a 2-4 week exclusivity window is a fair trade. If they can't sit they ass down to read your novel in a month then obviously you're not a huge priority. Don't hold up your career because some agent who may not even sign you is picky. Good analogy I've heard is to think of it like dating: "Hey, I might want to date you, but can you hang on and not date anybody else while I spend six months figuring it out?" Giving them a little time is valid, because if they're passionate and really want that exclusive, they'll jump on it, and a month is plenty of time.

My two cents

And CONGRATULATIONS!!

ETA -- Oh, I missed your second post where you gave 3 weeks. WELL FINE THEN. GUESS I LOOK LIKE AN ASS NOW, HUH >.>

Traikan · April 2012

Excellent elaboration, liquiddark, thanks.

You obviously know a lot about acting and directing, are there any books (especially on the latter) you'd recommend I read?

liquiddark · April 2012

Uta Hagen's book Respect for Acting is a landmark distillation of realistic acting, so definitely try to find a copy. Directing is a different fish. I've asked on facebook for suggestions, I'll let you know what I get back.

I learned most of what I know by doing theatre and a little bit of film and by taking classes. Theatre classes can sometimes be very cheap without being terrible. Working on a show can help too. There's always a need for people to do crew work, and you can get exposure to the whole process by doing so.

It can also be fun to do a bit of background work in TV and film. If you hook the right project they might let you stay on set while they do setups and even character scenes. It all helps understand your options.

ElJeffe · April 2012

geardrops wrote: »

ETA -- Oh, I missed your second post where you gave 3 weeks. WELL FINE THEN. GUESS I LOOK LIKE AN ASS NOW, HUH >.>

SUCH AN ASS

HANG YOUR HEAD IN SHAME

Actually, your post helped me think "OMIGOD DID I FUCK THIS UP" significantly less.

geardrops · April 2012

ElJeffe wrote: »

geardrops wrote: »

ETA -- Oh, I missed your second post where you gave 3 weeks. WELL FINE THEN. GUESS I LOOK LIKE AN ASS NOW, HUH >.>

SUCH AN ASS

HANG YOUR HEAD IN SHAME

Actually, your post helped me think "OMIGOD DID I FUCK THIS UP" significantly less.

I CAN NEVER SHOW MY FACE AROUND HERE AGAIN. I MUST LEAVE AND CREATE A NEW LIFE ELSEWHERE.

Glad I could be some help <3

MKR · April 2012

I made up a landing page for my fancy new ebook: http://historyoftheinternet.mkronline.com/

WP multisite is handy. :rotate:

Wank · April 2012

publicadoooo !

sold a scifi flash for a piddling amount of money and that 0.6 story is going up on kill author in June

ElJeffe · April 2012

Snazzy, Wank.

Hey, whatever happened with that agent who was looking over Babel and/or Clockwork? Any word?

Wank · April 2012

That particular agent did not dig Clockwork. And I'm still just not wanting to do work on Babel, I don't like it enough. Right now Clockwork is floating with a different agent, waiting with fingers crossed.

Harrier · April 2012

How many agents do you guys submit stories to at a time?

I've been picking out some specific agents based on their likes and prior representation, but to a smaller extent I'm also applying a bit of buckshot.

Wank · April 2012

I sent off to ten, specifically looking for interest in my genre. That's so far netted four rejections, one partial, and five no-replys.

VanityPants · April 2012

I also send off in batches of ten. After sending ten, I allow for a little bit of time between going into the next set so I can get a feel for how the query is doing and adjust it if I need to.

ElJeffe · April 2012

I was sending off one or two every so often. I currently have eight or so out there, one of which requested a partial. The rest are all no-responses, which I think is pretty standard for emailed queries; they don't respond unless they're interested.

I'm taking a break from sending out new queries until I get closer to the end of the exclusivity window for this one guy, then I'll drop another ten or so. No sense getting a bunch of interest just so I can tell them, "Neener, you have to wait now!"

VanityPants · April 2012

I really, really do dislike the "no response means no" thing, too.

I hate to complain, but is it REALLY that hard to at least send a form letter? I hate form letters, but I understand the necessity of them with so many queries going around and it's still better and more considerate than dead air.

geardrops · April 2012

VanityPants wrote: »

I really, really do dislike the "no response means no" thing, too.

I hate to complain, but is it REALLY that hard to at least send a form letter? I hate form letters, but I understand the necessity of them with so many queries going around and it's still better and more considerate than dead air.

I've heard agents say stuff like "Well when I respond I get nasty emails so forget that" and "I'm too busy" but seriously, weak sauce. Set up some sort of automated rejection sender thing. It's not hard. Hell, even Google has canned responses.

VanityPants · April 2012

geardrops wrote: »

VanityPants wrote: »

I really, really do dislike the "no response means no" thing, too.

I hate to complain, but is it REALLY that hard to at least send a form letter? I hate form letters, but I understand the necessity of them with so many queries going around and it's still better and more considerate than dead air.

I've heard agents say stuff like "Well when I respond I get nasty emails so forget that" and "I'm too busy" but seriously, weak sauce. Set up some sort of automated rejection sender thing. It's not hard. Hell, even Google has canned responses.

Yeah, this is what I don't understand, it's not like sending out a form rejection is going to drastically slow anything down. The reason form rejections exist is so that they'll take up next to no time and make things easy! I just don't get it and it can be more than a little frustrating.

ElJeffe · April 2012

I'm not sure what an agent's inbox looks like, but if they're getting something like 100 queries per day, and rejecting 98 of them straight away, I can see even sending off 98 form emails taking a decent chunk of time.

I accept it as the cost of doing email business. It is exceptionally easy and inexpensive for me to send out dozens of queries, the caveat being that I will not receive a response if it's negative. Most agents I've looked into will respond with a form letter if you use a snail mail query (provided you include a SASE), so if I really need to see that many rejections, I can stop doing things digitally.

Given that my default assumption on any submission of anything to anyone is that I will be rejected, it doesn't make much difference to me. The mental chain goes something like, "Okay, sent out a query -> It will be rejected -> I want a sandwich -> Okay, let's send out another query."

Magell · April 2012

The real problem is the fact that they don't send a rejection letter, and there is not set time of response to know that they have rejected it.

VanityPants · April 2012

Yeah, SOME places say "No response means no and we respond within 2 months," with other places they leave out that detail and there's no telling how long you should wait before you assume the thing is rejected.

Edit: I really wish agencies would use something similar to what most big magazines use for fiction subs now. You just plug in your email and submission number and the page lists if your thing is still under review or rejection. Then you don't even need to send an email! It'll never happen, but it's a nice thought.

Amalia · April 2012

I am totally okay with no response means no when it's got a window of time within which I will hear from them. Then I can check you off my list and it isn't just hanging around out there -- or when an agent posts what the oldest query is left in their inbox, too, "caught up on all queries sent before x/x/xxxx" is totally awesome. The open ended stuff makes me a little bit crazy.

ElJeffe · April 2012

Things like AgentTracker help take a lot of the guesswork out of that. Or just a little Google-fu. I research every agent I query, and usually in the course of that research I get an idea for what their expected response time is.

geardrops · April 2012

Is it just me or did TWB disappear from the main forumses page?

tapeslinger · April 2012

It's there on mine...

Quoth · April 2012

We really need to get a new rules thread up. Can we start compiling rules here or something?

VanityPants · April 2012

Rule #1: VanityPants is king.

BEAST! · April 2012

i had a wayback link to the rules at one point but i'm not sure where that went..hmmm

Quoth · April 2012

If you can find that, it would be awesome. Every link I found was dead.

BEAST! · April 2012

http://www.mkronline.com/twbrules.html

There. I found the original post I'd had linking to the google cache of it and realized that mkr had made a copy of it for the day that google removed it from cache. Which happened long ago I'm sure.

mkr has saved the day, i am just the one that realized it!

MKR · April 2012

I remember seeing that while cleaning out my site. I thought it would be good to keep it around just in case.

ElJeffe · April 2012

You know how when you come up with a story you have this one scene that just sort of contains your entire theme, distilled into a couple thousand words? (Okay, well that's what I do, anyway.) I love when you're writing your tale and you get to that scene and it just goes exactly as you imagined and you get this little rush. It's like getting to that really wicked loop in your favorite roller coaster.

It helps when your protagonist is a crazy fucking bitch, because crazy people are so fun to write.

Magell · April 2012

In my stories it's usually the action set piece that is tons of fun to write. I love getting to that moment. I haven't done it in a while though, I keep getting caught in the unplanned parts before that and ruining the story, or having bad planning to get there.

liquiddark · April 2012

Now we just have to stake out a sacrifice and wait for the indifferent gods to appear.

zenpotato · April 2012

I'm okay with the "no response means no" thing. I mean, I prefer a response. It's nice, and provides some closure. But responding, even a form response, takes a bunch of time. And the agent/market doesn't owe me that. Responding to me isn't their business. Taking care of their current clients is, and if I were to become a client, I would want my agent's time spent on my work, not spending 30-60 minutes a sending form rejections.

Anyways, getting back in the saddle. Resurrecting a comic script with a WWI horror theme. I've got weekly skype meetings set up with my artist, and this train is a-rollin'. Or the van's a-rockin'. Either way... no knocking.

ElJeffe · April 2012

liquiddark wrote: »

Now we just have to stake out a sacrifice and wait for the indifferent gods to appear.

It took me a bit to figure out what you were referencing, and the interim was very confusing, since what you just said sounds a lot like one of the central themes of my book. Unless you are talking about my book, in which case why are you psychic.

Quoth · April 2012

Today is a good day to feel like a terrible writer and gripe about how crappy writers have multiple books so why can't I?

liquiddark · April 2012

I am only psychic for minor celebrities and petty gods. But those bastards are filthy.

Harrier · April 2012

So there's a writer's conference being held near Dallas. It's going to have workshops and speakers and editors and agents. As my efforts to craft a successful query letter have been frustrating, I thought I might attend and try to pitch my book in person. Not to mention get some advice on the business from published authors.

Has anyone been to one of these before?

Quoth · April 2012

I haven't been, but a friend of mine had great success pitching that way. She's a lawyer so she's a great communicator in person.

VanityPants · April 2012

I've never been to one, but I desperately want to. I've heard a lot of success stories from people pitching at conferences, and even if that doesn't work out, it's a good chance to meet people, make connections and maybe even learn something. If you've got the opportunity to go, it can't hurt.

Penny Arcade

[Chat], and the world [chats] with you; [Brainstorm], and you [brainstorm] alone.

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