My landlord hasn't paid the gas bill in ages and now I have no hot water

Veretas · April 2012

Yeah, I think the thread title speaks for itself. I just got home today to a notice plastered on my door saying that a ridiculously large sum of money was due today otherwise they would shut off the gas heating.

They have shut off the gas heating.

I have tried contacting my landlord several times but it just goes to voicemail. My roommates have done the same to no avail and I'm getting worried the electricity and internet will soon be next.

I'm gonna have to take a shower at the office tomorrow and probably stay at a hotel for at least this weekend.

Is there anything I can do to get the gas back without having to go through my landlord? More importantly, is there anything I can do to report this guy?

Edit: To clarify, I live in the Bellevue area in Washington.

Ruckus · April 2012

Post your location so people know what jurisdiction to base their advice on, but my first suggestion would be to contact whatever body in your local or state government regulates or advocates for rental properties.

JebusUD · April 2012

Everywhere landlords must provide livable conditions. At the very least im sure you will be able to get this off the rent. Likely they will be required to pay for a place for you to stay.

DoctorArch · April 2012

We also need some specifics. Do you have a contract with your landlord stipulating that he pays for the heat?

DoctorArch · April 2012

And here are the RCWs for the Landlord-Tenant Act.

Deebaser · April 2012

internet?
Are you sure that's in the lease?

Veretas · April 2012

Oh yeah I guess I should be more specific

Technically there is no written lease. Yes I know I am retarded.

DoctorArch · April 2012

Technically, the law states the landlord must provide the capability of heat (i.e., the physical connections and heating appliances), but leaves the discussion of who pays for the heat up to the landlord & tenant.

Are your names on the utility bills, or are the bills under the landlord's name?

Veretas · April 2012

The bills are under his name. At least this gas one is.

DoctorArch · April 2012

If the gas bills were in his name they are his responsibility. However, tomorrow I would call up the gas company yourself, explain the situation, and start up a new account for the residence. They will go after him for the unpaid bill, not you, and as a renter you should not be punished for his irresponsibility.

As for the other bills, check into them asap. Personally, after this kind of crap from a landlord I would also start looking for a new place to live.

Druhim · April 2012

Sorry Veretas, but you have no lease agreement so you're on pretty shaky ground to be making complaints against someone you don't actually have a lease with. That's not to say you don't have any rights at all, but you're going to have a very hard time getting anywhere with this. Your best bet is to move ASAP and once you find a place to rent, make absolutely sure you read and sign a lease agreement.

Veretas · April 2012

Druhim wrote: »

Sorry Veretas, but you have no lease agreement so you're on pretty shaky ground to be making complaints against someone you don't actually have a lease with. That's not to say you don't have any rights at all, but you're going to have a very hard time getting anywhere with this. Your best bet is to move ASAP and once you find a place to rent, make absolutely sure you read and sign a lease agreement.

Yup, looks like that's gonna have to be the case.

Well hopefully the bill will at least get paid and I get a little breathing room on finding the right place.

Thanks for the help guys.

V1m · April 2012

If the landlord isn't paying bills and has gone to ground then I wouldn't make any important plans that are founded on your getting your security deposit back from him. Take preventative action now or be prepared to write that money off.

It's not impossible that the gas company (or, rather, their collection agency) might not try to get you to pay that bill if they can't find the landlord. Even if you tell them to get lost, that sort of thing can end up on your credit info and cause you trouble later. I don't know about US law, but I would observe that, hypothetically, withholding your rent for a few days might be an effective way to encourage him to get in touch with you - or to secure your money, whichever. Maybe leave him a message along the lines of "In order to protect my situation, I will be paying the rent into a seperate account until it accumulates to the value of my security deposit plus the outstanding utility bills, where the money will remain until such time as you contact me with a written assurance that I will receive my full security deposit and will be definitely excluded from any liability for outstanding utility charges against the property."

Enc · April 2012

Veretas wrote: »

Druhim wrote: »

Sorry Veretas, but you have no lease agreement so you're on pretty shaky ground to be making complaints against someone you don't actually have a lease with. That's not to say you don't have any rights at all, but you're going to have a very hard time getting anywhere with this. Your best bet is to move ASAP and once you find a place to rent, make absolutely sure you read and sign a lease agreement.

Yup, looks like that's gonna have to be the case.

Well hopefully the bill will at least get paid and I get a little breathing room on finding the right place.

Thanks for the help guys.

The good news is, since you don't have a lease, you can bail whenever you want. Go find someplace today and don't pay another dime to your landlord.

Eat it You Nasty Pig. · April 2012

Landlords are obligated to keep rented spaces livable; this is true whether there's a written lease or not. If you have not already paid rent for the time since the service was shut off, I would not pay.

That being said if there is no lease, your recourse aside from withholding rent for the period in question is basically 'move out.' You might be able to recover 30 days worth of water/heat payments if you were paying rent and made the utility payments in lieu of your landlord doing it (depends on jurisdiction IANAL etc), but 1) it's probably not worth your time to try and 2) it sounds like you'll have to pay more than that to get the service reactivated at this point anyway.

bowen · April 2012

V1m wrote: »

If the landlord isn't paying bills and has gone to ground then I wouldn't make any important plans that are founded on your getting your security deposit back from him. Take preventative action now or be prepared to write that money off.

It's not impossible that the gas company (or, rather, their collection agency) might not try to get you to pay that bill if they can't find the landlord. Even if you tell them to get lost, that sort of thing can end up on your credit info and cause you trouble later. I don't know about US law, but I would observe that, hypothetically, withholding your rent for a few days might be an effective way to encourage him to get in touch with you - or to secure your money, whichever. Maybe leave him a message along the lines of "In order to protect my situation, I will be paying the rent into a seperate account until it accumulates to the value of my security deposit plus the outstanding utility bills, where the money will remain until such time as you contact me with a written assurance that I will receive my full security deposit and will be definitely excluded from any liability for outstanding utility charges against the property."

The landlord should've deposited it in his name for interest and he should have a slip that shows which bank it's from... assuming he's doing it right. Which I doubt. It wouldn't hurt to call up the bank, if there is one, and make sure that only you can take out the security deposit now that you know he might be in financial troubles.

Druhim · April 2012

I don't see how Seattle City Light could go after Veretas at all. And I live in Seattle and have dealt with them before. The only way I could see them being able to go after him would be if the bill were in his name, which it wasn't. And since there's not even a lease, they can't even take that angle on him even if that's a channel they could normally pursue.

bowen · April 2012

Yeah they can't come after him for anything really.

Enc · April 2012

Yep, throw your stuff in a box and walk away as soon as you can. If your landlord has stopped paying, it's likely that he is out of money or no longer interested in upkeep of the property whatsoever, neither are good for you.

illig · April 2012

look up your local tenant laws... many places allow the tenant to make vital repairs and then deduct the total from the rent.... in NYC that works for providing heat/hot water as well.

Vanguard · April 2012

Regardless of your leaseless situation, you can still report him for providing unlivable spaces. Since you're in a city, you most certainly have some ordinance requiring the minimum standards of habitability, among which are heat and hot water (unless you yourself pay heat and hot water, which you don't).

The good news is that you can stop paying rent while looking for a new place. He wants his rent money? You want your hot water.

Druhim · April 2012

Yes, technically he can report his landlord. But without a lease, it's also going to be time consuming and possibly even cost him money to try and prove he's a tenant. He doesn't have time or money to spare. So it's not really worth pursuing for a dubious outcome that may come out in his favor months later. It's not like he can just call a number and whammo they'll turn the power back on and go after his landlord.

bowen · April 2012

I would assume if it came down to it having a set of keys and having mail delivered there would be enough, and showing that scumbag landlord cashed checks would just be icing on the cake.

Pull bank statements.

Druhim · April 2012

I'm not saying he can't prove it, but it's not going to be a matter of just calling a number and faxing some paperwork and a couple of days later his power is back on. It will likely take at least a month or two before the city starts any action against the landlord. And even that would just mean they start looking into it, maybe send the owner of the house a notice. That still doesn't mean he necessarily has power again. He does not have that kind of time. There's a difference between technically having a right, and actually asserting that right and getting what you're due. The latter typically takes significant time and even possibly money.

bowen · April 2012

Yeah you're right, the turnover on that is probably at least a month. I don't know how resilient they are to someone being really annoying about it and calling every hour.

Probably better to just move if he doesn't answer a call in the next day or two.

Draygo · April 2012

By reading the op, something may have happened to the landlord in question. If the landlord died/was hospitalized it could explain the situation.

If he is just being a dead-beat thats another thing. I would spend a little more effort than just calling him. I'm sure he collects payment somehow so at least attempt to find his whereabouts.

And I would withhold rent while looking for another place to stay, at minimum that should get his attention.

override367 · April 2012

Withholding rent is a tactic I've used in the past to phenomenal success with landlords who decide to be shitty. Sure they can start eviction on you, but they have to actually emerge from the shadows to do so

When I was little our landlord tried to evict us once because my mom didn't pay rent for this very issue, the heat wouldn't work even though the gas bill was paid up. He sent no one to fix it and took my mom to court to evict her after the 30 days were up. She had copies of written correspondence with him and photos of ice on the inside of the windows and the judge awarded her a pretty penny from him, enough to move to a new place.

GnomeTank · April 2012

Yeah, with no lease, you're actually not in a terrible position, because you can just withhold rent and walk away. I still recommend getting a lease though. It legitimizes the contract of your housing stay, and gives you some baseline expectation of the situation being mostly above board.

Dr. Frenchenstein · April 2012

Be careful withholding rent, technically, you aren't allowed to do that. if you are planning on staying (which i wouldn't) you can make your complaint to a judge and he can allow you to hold it in an escrow account until the issue is fixed. I'm pretty sure that takes a while though, and i'm not sure if you get any compensation for having to live with the problem for however long.

you are better off just blowing that pop stand. Only issue there is, you will lose your deposit, if he has one.

Also, i thought cities couldn't turn off vital utilities? or is that only in extreme weather? like, if this happened in the dead of winter or something?

Druhim · April 2012

Seattle City Light absolutely can legally shut off power for non-payment.

Enc · April 2012

Dr. Frenchenstein wrote: »

Be careful withholding rent, technically, you aren't allowed to do that. if you are planning on staying (which i wouldn't) you can make your complaint to a judge and he can allow you to hold it in an escrow account until the issue is fixed. I'm pretty sure that takes a while though, and i'm not sure if you get any compensation for having to live with the problem for however long.

you are better off just blowing that pop stand. Only issue there is, you will lose your deposit, if he has one.

Also, i thought cities couldn't turn off vital utilities? or is that only in extreme weather? like, if this happened in the dead of winter or something?

He is probably allowed to withhold rent in this situation as there is no contract or lease binding him to doing so. If the landlord raises a verbal agreement, he can also use that to indicate that he landlord holds the responsibility to detail out where his utility checks have been going. The path to find out for sure would be to track down the rights and expectations of renters/landlords for your state, county, and municipal area (as they can vary by all hree) and see what rights are clearly stated for verbal agreements.

The path he should do is walk away, as I think everyone has stated.

Penny Arcade

My landlord hasn't paid the gas bill in ages and now I have no hot water

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