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The Workshop - Tips, Tricks, and Theory

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Posts

  • liquiddarkliquiddark Odd magpie St. John's, NLRegistered User regular
    edited March 2012
    OremLK wrote: »
    1. Telling:
    Kate walked into the alleyway and was mugged by a masked man. She gave him her wallet and ran home, crying for half an hour before she called the police to make a report.

    I'm on the fence about this. Depending on the narrator, this isn't necessarily a problem passage. I don't feel like the clarification helps point out the difference.
    Kate stepped into the dark alleyway, a triangle of yellow light spilling across the concrete from the street beyond. Her dinner with Tony had gone well, but what did he really think of her? She let the click-click of her heels set the rhythm of her thoughts, walking faster to drive the anxiety from her mind. She was still going over dinner in her mind when the dark shape of a man standing in a doorway ahead jolted her out of her reverie. She barely had time to shriek as he shot down the steps and slammed her into the wall.

    This isn't the same POV or the same story as before. Yes, the details are richer and more evocative, but the perspective is tighter and the story is completely different.

    Showing vs telling is mostly about not explaining things that can be evoked in details.

    Compare:
    The alley was dark. Kate imagined black hooded men waiting in the shadows waiting to assault her. She felt scared. Just then a black hooded man came out of the shadows and assaulted her. He pulled her arms behind her, hurting her.

    to:
    Kate walked quickly down the alley, her eyes flickering between shadows. She clutched her bag tight to her chest and played with the pepper spray inside. A large, heavy form crashed into her from behind, bearing her to the ground. She gasped as strong hands wrenched her arms tight behind her.

    I know she is scared because she is walking quickly and looking around. I know she fears whatever might be in the shadows because she is looking at them, and because of her grip on the bag. I can probably figure out that she thinks she'll be assaulted by means of the pepper spray. I know she's hurt because she gasps, and because I can imagine the feeling of that piece of action. I know all of that and I didn't need to be told any of it explicitly.

    liquiddark on
    Current project: Contension, a realtime tactics game for mobile
    @oldmanhero .programming .web comic .everything
    timmywil
  • AnarchosAnarchos Registered User
    I'm almost on page 3, I want to read it all to not repeat other people's advice without giving them credit. I just wanted to say thank you to everybody on here. Your words took time and consideration to write. A gift from your intellects and experience. Thank you.

    I love Penny Arcade, It had me @ For the Vin :)
    I'm a newbie on these boards, so far I've been scolded, told to shut up and felt lost in a new and somewhat hostile environment - it's a lot like high school. Well I learned somethings in high school so I plan on learning things here.

    Check out my book at: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007NQ8TTS
  • AnarchosAnarchos Registered User
    There is a lot which is covered so far in this thread. So here's a bit of wisdom I have which may not be that wise at all.

    This works for me but may not work for other people: How I keep grinding away at something I am working on.

    First I set realistic goals for myself. Then I set a self reward for accomplishing that goal. I tend to scale the reward with the goal. Example: If some friends wanted to go catch a movie over the upcoming weekend which is on the list of movies I want to watch, I'll try to write at my peak. If they want me to come along the following day and I don't care about the movie either way, yet I still want to have fun with my friends, I'll try to finish writing a scene/chapter for that night.

    I will buy things and leave them boxed/wrapped up until I hit my goal of X. This has included Skyrim and Assassin's Creed Revelations. If I love a game, I'll limit myself to one evening a week playing it unless I accomplish my goals for that week then I'll play it a day early and the following regular day.

    Also if my writing is sub par to what I normally put out, I don't reward myself.

    This works for me and may not work for others.

    Anybody else have a method of putting their nose to the grind?

    I love Penny Arcade, It had me @ For the Vin :)
    I'm a newbie on these boards, so far I've been scolded, told to shut up and felt lost in a new and somewhat hostile environment - it's a lot like high school. Well I learned somethings in high school so I plan on learning things here.

    Check out my book at: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007NQ8TTS
  • D-DocD-Doc Registered User regular
    Some very good advice in here-I especially like the bit about reading sentences out loud to hear how they sound.

    I write every morning for at least an hour (only for my two weeks off each month; the other two weeks I'm out on an oil rig), but when I'm in the zone I'll go for as long as I feel like. It usually ends up being around two hours total, but sometimes later in the day I'll check back on it and add a thing or two. I agree with the poster who said that writing isn't always fun, even for those who genuinely enjoy it. It's definitely frustrating and monotonous sometimes, but the days when I get into the flow and write feverishly without thinking about time more than make up for it, along the feeling of satisfaction I get when the story is done and edited and ready to be posted for feedback.

    Anyhway, committing to write at a certain time every day has really helped me. I think writing for at least an hour every morning is a good place to start. Wake up, eat some breakfast, drink some coffee, throw in a dip if you have to, snort a line of blow, put on music-whatever your ritual may be, I can't recommend writing in the morning enough. When I used to work on a pecan farm I would wake up about two and a half hours before work so that I got at least an hour of writing in before I left. I don't write too much on work days now. I read and I may write a thing or two here and there when I have the chance.

  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    I'm trying to get back into writing (I took an Adv writing course last semester) but I've always had a rough go at plots. I try to outline them point by point and I feel uncreative. I try to let the characters guide it and then it becomes an unfocused mess. I've been skimming this thread for tips, but if anyone wouldn't mind linking me to a post where this is covered, (or just giving a general response) I'd be grateful.

    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Spoiler:
  • QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    Have you tried the Snowflake method? You can always do a brief, general outline and let the details form more organically. It's not one option or the other.

    I have my own method that I could send you over to if you're interested. It's more character-driven but does provide a framework to get started.

  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    I remember trying the Snowflake method long ago, but it's a little foggy. I might google it and see where that gets me.

    And I'm all ears. If you'd like to PM or even just reply here, that'd be great.

    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Spoiler:
  • QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    Here's the brief version: http://candleinsunshine.com/asthemoonclimbs/on-writing/quick-and-dirty-nano-plan/

    There's a link to the long one there as well. Like I said, it starts with character and builds from there. That's not to say that your idea has to start as characters, but that I think it's the best way to start planning and outlining.

    Do you find that your ideas usually come as scenes, or bits of dialogue, or worlds, or what?

  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Thanks! I'll give it a shot :)

    Usually bits of dialog or phrases that my brain thinks of while I'm driving around- so I scribble them and come back to them later. Sometimes I get a general plot but filling all the little bits between main points falters.

    Occasionally, I do the character thing, but it seems to work best when the character is essentially me or I already have a strong plot to latch them onto.

    edit: That actually clears things up a bit- at least for how to get things moving with the characters. I tend to forget about their "want/need" or don't to a good job figuring out how to make such a thing story-worthy because I haven't spent enough time on it.

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
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  • VanityPantsVanityPants Gokai Red! Registered User regular
    Nappuccino wrote: »
    I'm trying to get back into writing (I took an Adv writing course last semester) but I've always had a rough go at plots. I try to outline them point by point and I feel uncreative. I try to let the characters guide it and then it becomes an unfocused mess. I've been skimming this thread for tips, but if anyone wouldn't mind linking me to a post where this is covered, (or just giving a general response) I'd be grateful.

    @Nappuccino: This sounds a little bit like me, honestly. If I over-plot, I get bored. If I don't plot at all, I meander. I found that my personal solution is to start with a very loose plot. Usually that just means I have an idea for a beginning and an end, and what I think will probably be the middle beat.

    I write the beginning that I know and let the characters and story start to lead me, but as I'm going I keep a notebook with me everywhere and make notes. This way, I start to kind of structure the plot as I go. Generally I'll be just a step or two ahead, thinking about where I am now and writing down what the next logical step is. Occasionally ideas will come to me for events down the line and I'll write those down in my notebook, too, and see if and when they connect in the story.

    It's by no means a very structured method, but it's the way that works for me. I don't like to overthink things in the first draft, mainly.

    Sometimes this kind of stuff is just something you have to play around with until you find what sticks for you.

  • QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    Yeah, don't be afraid to try different approaches until you find something that works for you. No one method is best for everyone. And it's also fine to cobble something together from other people's ideas as you go.

  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    @VanityPants: That sounds pretty good too . . . Just keeping about two steps ahead of the story seems like a good idea to try as well.

    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Spoiler:
  • Mustachio JonesMustachio Jones Registered User regular
    The one thing I would warn against with having an (detailed) outline and knowing where everything is going ahead of time is that a lot of the good stuff is borne of just being there in the story yourself and seeing where things go. This, of course, is kind of bad for novel writing on a large scale (i.e. the novel as a whole and its overarching plot, not scene-writing), but I've found that it makes the best shorts.

    But, as has been said, you kind of just have to try everything and see what sticks.

  • MagellMagell Sphinx! Parts UnknownRegistered User regular
    When you want to write an outline I recommend the vaguest of outlines so you just have a general idea of where you story has to go at all points so you're writing can go from point to point. You still have a lot of leeway in how you get to those points, and how exactly they play out, but you need to have a general idea of what's happening.

  • LieLie Registered User new member
    I don't know if this has been already stated, but one of the rules of writing a book is to keep your work "reader friendly." It's good you've a vast vocabulary, but it is highly advised that you lessen the use for profound words. I think the explanation for this is you don't want your audience to pick-up a dictionary every time they encounter an unfamiliar word.

    If anything else, this thread helped me in some way, and have jotted down some ideas to cook-up a good story.

  • OghulkOghulk squeek squeek squeek squeek squeek squeekRegistered User regular
    I feel like McCarthy would argue against that rule. When writing I figure it's best to find the most precise word in place of using a dozen less 'profound' words.

  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    Lie wrote: »
    I don't know if this has been already stated, but one of the rules of writing a book is to keep your work "reader friendly." It's good you've a vast vocabulary, but it is highly advised that you lessen the use for profound words. I think the explanation for this is you don't want your audience to pick-up a dictionary every time they encounter an unfamiliar word.

    If anything else, this thread helped me in some way, and have jotted down some ideas to cook-up a good story.

    I disagree. Use the most precise word you know. Don't dig up a thesaurus and use one you're unfamiliar with, don't dumb down, just use the most precise one you know.

    chiasaur11OghulkTheodore Floosevelt
  • OghulkOghulk squeek squeek squeek squeek squeek squeekRegistered User regular
    I feel like diminishing a piece to make it "reader friendly" really just dicks over the reader in the end.

    As a reader I absolutely hate that.

  • VanityPantsVanityPants Gokai Red! Registered User regular
    The point isn't really to dumb it down in the case of that advice.

    The point is to not write bad, stilted prose by trying to shoehorn in words that don't fit the story. 99% of the time you're not going to be writing things that require you to use large, difficult words and a lot of young and beginning writers think that using more esoteric words will somehow make their book more profound.

    The point is to write clearly, concisely, and in a way that fits the story. Precision is important, and you want to pick the right word, but you can easily cross the line from precision to overcomplication and take people out of the story.

    QuothTheodore Floosevelt
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    The only time I would really worry about using an actually-precise word because the reader might not know it is if I were writing children's lit (which I don't actually do). And even then, it's okay if the kid runs into a word they don't know every so often.

    The guidelines for picking good fiction for your kid's reading level actually specify that there should be a word or two per page that the child doesn't know. Usually you can figure out the meaning of the word from context, and if not they can always ask, but this is how you build their vocabulary - you give them books with new words.

    I figure if it's reasonable for kids, it's reasonable for adults. Maybe not a word per page, but I love running into words I've never heard before, or haven't heard for a long time, or have heard but only kind of know.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • jackbotjackbot Registered User regular
    One of the best pieces of advice I ever received is this W.H. Auden quote: "Some writers confuse authenticity, which they ought always to aim at, with originality, which they should never bother about."

    I notice amateur writers especially get caught up in the quest for a premise they think is "original". But nothing is really new. Make characters act authentically to their natures and have plots flow organically, and your work will matter.

  • SebmojoSebmojo Registered User new member
    My favourite rules of writing are three questions:

    What does the character want?

    Why can't they get it?

    Why should we give a shit?


    Answer those properly and you can't help but write something that's worth reading.

  • BasilBasil Registered User regular
    I had to smile just now when I sat down, thought about those questions, and actually managed to answer them.

    There was a time when I wouldn't have been able to do that!

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  • buffylovebuffylove Registered User regular
    Sebmojo wrote: »
    My favourite rules of writing are three questions:

    What does the character want?

    Why can't they get it?

    Why should we give a shit?

    Good advice.
    To me it's about problem solving. You character has a problem and the story is their struggle to solve it (which they may or may not do).

    New story -- DUMP SITE
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  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited January 2014
    If the meaning of the word is apparent by the context surrounding it, as ElJeffe pointed out with the children's-book example, I think you can get away with any word you want. It's the same principle.

    If you're stuck for the right word, my solution would be to fire up the thesaurus and run through it until you see a word that immediately jumps out as 'the right one', which will from my experience happen most of the time. Whatever word it is, it'll be one you already know, or else it wouldn't have jumped out at you. That goes a long way towards knowing if the reader's going to know it too.

    Gosling on
    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
  • MrClaimsMrClaims Registered User new member
    the best piece of advice I was given on writing was: do not use quotation mark without a reason - there is always a word to express what you're thinking without making the reader guess what you have in mind;)

    You were thinking about new game strategy, didn't notice a car comming your way, and now your stuck with your leg broken? File for compensation and... buy more games;)
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
  • The Classic GamerThe Classic Gamer FloridaRegistered User new member
    I like defining a demand. When your work can provide value it is far more likely to be enjoyed. Instead of looking at writing in a "what do I want to write about?" frame of mind, I'll start out with "what provides value to readers".

  • mastertheheromasterthehero Professional Video Editor & Book Author Registered User regular
    I like defining a demand. When your work can provide value it is far more likely to be enjoyed. Instead of looking at writing in a "what do I want to write about?" frame of mind, I'll start out with "what provides value to readers".

    Can't say I'd find this very exciting. For instance, books that are in high demand are non fiction self helps book like say. "How to get your man." "How to get your woman." "How to finally lose weight." You get the idea.

    Those are books that would technically give value to the reader. When I decide what I want to write about, it's because there's a story that's clawing to get out of my brain. If the readers happen to enjoy it, that's wonderful and a bonus. Granted, this isn't the best way to make money in writing, but at least I won't be banging my head against the desk trying to force myself to write about something I have zero interest in.

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    Magell
  • MagellMagell Sphinx! Parts UnknownRegistered User regular
    Plus the genres and stories that are in high demand in literature change all the time so if you sit down to pump out a certain kind of book so are a lot of other people so the market is saturated, or by the time you manage to complete a finely tuned manuscript and get it to a publisher there's something else that's the new hotness. Just write what you want and hope that genre is hot or be the book that makes that genre the shit that everybody wants.

    masterthehero
  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Simi Valley, CARegistered User regular
    Is this the thread to ask questions? I hope it is because that's what I'm going to do!

    It's about naming. Not characters, but cities/countries/lakes, and so on.
    Do you guys have any tips for coming up with names for these kinds of things, without them sounding stupid?
    Is combing words to make new words ok when naming? Is this a practice that you should avoid, especially if using a language you're unfamiliar with as the basis?

  • tapeslingertapeslinger Space Unicorn Slush Ranger Social Justice Rebel ScumRegistered User regular
    Well, it depends on what you mean by "not familiar with the language."
    like, you should, in general, not use languages you are not at least in some way adequate, other than languages you have invented.

    For my things, I have a sort of "root language" which has meanings that work for creating compound words, but it's a ymmv kind of situation I think. What is happening in that place? Is it a village, a city? A farming compound? etc. What happens or has happened there? I usually pull names for places from their function or unique features, even when things are not necessarily straightforward-- one example, off the top of my head-- A place with a high cliff? Sure, you could call it Highcliff... but you could also talk about what that means for the place by using names to integrate it as a fuller piece of the area's history.

  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Simi Valley, CARegistered User regular
    For example, let's say I was basing a character/tribe off of old proto-germanic tribes/culture. The language is not used, but I can look up words and their meanings. Then lets say I combined a couple a words to create a new one. It's not that I'm using the german language, or any from that region, as the actual language of the characters/people. But using some ancient language as a building block type thing for naming some things. And strictly for naming things.

  • bigrickcookbigrickcook Dord of Lance? OklahomaRegistered User regular
    If you use an old language that's fallen out of use to name things, there should generally be some indication that the naming culture has survived even though the culture itself has gone by the wayside.

    In the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan, there's a great explanation of why a particular region is named what it is, even though the society that the naming is derived from is completely gone. I'm not suggesting that Wheel of Time is the way to do it, but I thought it was a good example of using old names from a forgotten time.

    Seems pretty natural to do what you're suggesting, though.

    http://panningforclouds.com
    Panning For Clouds, a writing blog dedicated to my fiction and writing columns! Updates at least twice a week.
  • BombClancyBombClancy Sugar Lady Registered User regular
    I am not sure if it has been mentioned before, but I like using The Hero's Journey as a guide for writing out my stories :)
    Although it shows how it applies to movies, it could be used with a book in mind.
    http://www.public.asu.edu/~srbeatty/Screenwriting/HerosJourney.htm

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  • AxisXYZAxisXYZ Registered User regular
    Since I just skimmed this thread and didn't see much about it:

    How do you guys/girls write dialogue?

    I struggle terribly with writing interesting dialogue: often I know what the 'outcome' of a conversation should be and even trying to work towards that makes the whole thing seem really wooden.

  • bigrickcookbigrickcook Dord of Lance? OklahomaRegistered User regular
    AxisXYZ wrote: »
    Since I just skimmed this thread and didn't see much about it:

    How do you guys/girls write dialogue?

    I struggle terribly with writing interesting dialogue: often I know what the 'outcome' of a conversation should be and even trying to work towards that makes the whole thing seem really wooden.

    First question is: Are you talking about the first draft, or during editing phases?

    Trying to make good dialogue during a first draft is like anything else - the first draft isn't for good, it's for completion and catharsis. You may write some decent stuff in the first draft, but your focus on the first draft is just to get necessary information down.



    Dialogue is generally used for two things: exposition and character development, and really good dialogue often accomplishes both without you realizing it. There's no hard and fast rule for writing dialogue, but what works best for me is knowing enough about the characters I'm writing in order to have what they're saying, and how they're saying it, rendered believably. Usually this means spending a little bit of time drafting out the characters so you know their personalities and how they interact with others. You don't need a 10-page character study, but a few brief paragraphs may help you in keeping a consistent style and tone for each character until you're comfortable with how they've developed on the page.

    Also important to remember is that people don't often speak in perfect, complete sentences all the time, nor do they use perfect grammar, with exception to nobility/royalty/high society, and even they don't always speak perfectly. And people lie, talk around truths, omit information they're uncomfortable with. Everyone tends to hold something back until forced or coerced.

    None of that is to say that everyone needs to be using slang and dropping their "g" on every "ing" word.

    When people are scared, angry, or excited, they have a tendency to speak faster, which means words start running together and consonant sounds start disappearing.

    When people are among unfamiliar accents or modes of speaking, they start to take on the accents and euphemisms and ways of speech of the group or people they admire, even if they talk normal when they're not around those people.


    At the end of the day, your dialogue (especially if you are working in visual mediums) needs to be serving a purpose, and if you can make it serve more than one purpose at a time without being really obvious about it, you're probably on the right track.


    Aaron Sorkin, even if you don't like his politically-charged writing, is an example of a guy who can write snappy, witty dialogue and still reveal all kinds of important information or character moments while doing so. Quentin Tarantino is well-known for his rambling diatribes in writing that at first glance seem completely pointless but are revealing tons of information about the characters. Joss Whedon is one who can write dialogue that feels so perfect, with witty one-liners and snappy comebacks, that the characters appear larger-than-life on screen because they're just so quick and witty, while at other times revealing deep character flaws and vulnerabilities. These people know their characters and that helps them write the dialogue their characters need. There are a lot of other great dialogue writers out there (especially in the TV world right now), but most of them know that writing dialogue is to have something to say and the characters to say it in their own voices.

    TL;DR version - Your characters drive the dialogue, and it lives or dies by having good characters.

    http://panningforclouds.com
    Panning For Clouds, a writing blog dedicated to my fiction and writing columns! Updates at least twice a week.
  • QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    One thing to consider when writing dialogue, which can help, is that the characters should ideally have agendas. Goals. Reasons that they are talking to each other in the first place. Conflict is good--not fighting, per se, but having conflicting goals or impulses that have to somehow be resolved within the conversation. Girl wants to go on a date and her mom won't let her. Wife wants to know what's wrong with her husband and he won't tell her. Two people get to the last candy bar at the same time and argue about who deserves it more. Professor Bigglesworth is trying to find the missing Macguffin but the clerk at the curiosity shop is trying to deflect questions by shilling other merchandise. When you clearly fix in your mind who wants what and why, it can help define the shape and purpose of the conversation much better.

    bigrickcooktapeslingerchiasaur11E-gonga
  • tapeslingertapeslinger Space Unicorn Slush Ranger Social Justice Rebel ScumRegistered User regular
    first draft dialogue for me is usually literally what the characters want out of the conversation. Agenda, like Quoth says -- sort of what they're getting out of the scene. It's usually terrible, but I try to get some of the personality in there as well to mitigate obviousness.

    later drafts, fold in the meanings and frame it better so that the details are engaging and sometimes obscure the secondary meanings and intentions behind the words entirely.

  • St FirebringerSt Firebringer ATX!!!Registered User regular
    Nappuccino wrote: »

    edit: That actually clears things up a bit- at least for how to get things moving with the characters. I tend to forget about their "want/need" or don't to a good job figuring out how to make such a thing story-worthy because I haven't spent enough time on it.

    So much this - I often refer back to my character pages to check their wants/needs motivators if the characters are driving the story nowhere. I would add another method for characters driving plot, especially if their architecting around their wants/needs isn't moving the story, is to bring your living world down on them just to see what happens - sort of a mid-project creative exercise, a happenstance event.

    If things are stuck/slow, why not trot out the ol' "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune", right? I like to think of it as kicking my character square in the a--. Sometimes it's a playful drunken boot to the booty. Sometimes I punt them right in front of an oncoming subway train. It not only provides it's own sort of relatable dramatic moment (s--- happens), but the aftermath can really shine. Maybe the character fell over, sprained their wrist and decides to see a doc, then you can throw something their way that their routine precluded. Maybe, after they've rapidly picked their way across the track because they can't remember which rail contains all the festive electrons, they have a huffing and puffing catharsis. I should've talked to that weird yet fascinating person that smiled at me? Who would miss me if I had just gotten splattered? Who might find that thing under my bed that no one is supposed to have? Letting your creativity flow with that moment might just let your story take that neat right turn into a new and interesting neighborhood.

    And if it works out really well, you can totally say that you always meant to do that ;)

    Come hang out with me and waste your life awhile

    bradleywaynesebastian.com
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