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Avengers have assembled! (pretty much just the Marvel movie thread now with some comics)

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Posts

  • NeliNeli Registered User regular
    What little we saw of Vanko was great I thought. But it was way too little and then we got that ridiculous random last fight scene and the laser high five

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    Spoiler:
  • MalReynoldsMalReynolds The Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicines Registered User regular
    DoctorArch wrote: »
    Heir wrote: »
    I never felt the SHIELD bits in Iron Man 2 were detrimental to the movie.. In fact, they were some of hte more enjoyable bits. A weak villian duo and an unneccasary dying plot brought down the movie much more for me.

    I liked the SHIELD parts too. I thought the whole dying thing was stupid...they should have gone into his alcoholism instead.

    That and like you said, the villain duo sucked. Mainly I thought Vanko could have been fleshed out a lot more. I guess Rourke felt the same way, but was shot down.

    Personally, I don't put too much weight behind what Rourke says regarding the Vanko role when it was his decision to have the character speak Russian for almost the whole movie thus leading to a disconnect when the audience has no idea what he is saying.

    He wanted a Russian villain to speak Russian.

    I don't really get how that's terrible.

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  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    Rourke's Vanko voice was bad-ass. His "blood in the water" line was a killer in the trailer; I was sad when the movie just forgot about the idea of following up on it.

  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    DoctorArch wrote: »
    Heir wrote: »
    I never felt the SHIELD bits in Iron Man 2 were detrimental to the movie.. In fact, they were some of hte more enjoyable bits. A weak villian duo and an unneccasary dying plot brought down the movie much more for me.

    I liked the SHIELD parts too. I thought the whole dying thing was stupid...they should have gone into his alcoholism instead.

    That and like you said, the villain duo sucked. Mainly I thought Vanko could have been fleshed out a lot more. I guess Rourke felt the same way, but was shot down.

    Personally, I don't put too much weight behind what Rourke says regarding the Vanko role when it was his decision to have the character speak Russian for almost the whole movie thus leading to a disconnect when the audience has no idea what he is saying.

    He wanted a Russian villain to speak Russian.

    I don't really get how that's terrible.

    Sorry I wasn't clear. The issue wasn't that he spoke Russian, it was that the language wasn't translated for the audience through subtitles. I don't know if that was a directorial decision, or Rourke's (I cannot find anything confirming one way or the other), but based on his strong stance on the language, I suspect it was Rourke's.

    DoctorArch on
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  • AurichAurich Registered User regular
    That whole last fight was SO odd. Vanko goes from "[get beat up and arrested just to] show them God can bleed [so the real villain will finish you off]" to quickly and secretly building his armor that is somehow simply better than any of Stark's armors, and then instead of a proper boss fight he just gets killed in a cutscene (as it were). That is an odd way to treat a villain.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Death Groupie Registered User regular
    Well, getting busted out of prison and handed a ton of resources probably gave him a little more ambition in the "what can I do to fuck with Stark" department. Also, I always figured he had been building that armor the entire time he was with Hammer. Given he had enough time to retrofit all the existing suits into drones, I imagine it was easy enough to take one of the suits, trick it out, fix the issues and attach his whips to it. Additionally, Stark's suit is designed to fight against terrorists and soldiers and whatnot. I imagine Vanko made his suit specifically able to take on and beat the hell out Stark's technology.

    But yes, that last fight scene was shit. Massive disappointment.

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  • HeirHeir Registered User regular
    You know, that'd be something I'd like to see in a superhero movie...a better ending fight.

    It seems like almost every final fight involves the hero losing almost the entire fight, then using some gimmick (the giant arc reactor blowing up in IM1, the Repulsor high five in IM2 for examples), or last minute emotional motivation to win.

    I'd like to just see a brutal fight that is close, but never one-sided, with the protagonist winning at the end.

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  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    Heir wrote: »
    You know, that'd be something I'd like to see in a superhero movie...a better ending fight.

    It seems like almost every final fight involves the hero losing almost the entire fight, then using some gimmick (the giant arc reactor blowing up in IM1, the Repulsor high five in IM2 for examples), or last minute emotional motivation to win.

    I'd like to just see a brutal fight that is close, but never one-sided, with the protagonist winning at the end.

    Incredible Hulk?

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Death Groupie Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Heir wrote: »
    You know, that'd be something I'd like to see in a superhero movie...a better ending fight.

    It seems like almost every final fight involves the hero losing almost the entire fight, then using some gimmick (the giant arc reactor blowing up in IM1, the Repulsor high five in IM2 for examples), or last minute emotional motivation to win.

    I'd like to just see a brutal fight that is close, but never one-sided, with the protagonist winning at the end.

    Incredible Hulk?

    God I love that fight. Especially when Hulk gets the car-chunk boxing gloves.

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  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Heir wrote: »
    You know, that'd be something I'd like to see in a superhero movie...a better ending fight.

    It seems like almost every final fight involves the hero losing almost the entire fight, then using some gimmick (the giant arc reactor blowing up in IM1, the Repulsor high five in IM2 for examples), or last minute emotional motivation to win.

    I'd like to just see a brutal fight that is close, but never one-sided, with the protagonist winning at the end.

    Incredible Hulk?

    Yeah, that was the first one I thought of with a good example of a non-gimmick final fight.

    Really the problem is that in a superhero final fight, you almost always have to first establish that the villain is more "brute-force" powerful than the hero, because otherwise it's just a big strong hero beating up on a not-as-strong villain. Once you've established that, the hero still needs to win, which plants you squarely in gimmick territory. I think gimmicks that are successful aren't as bothersome - it's almost always the hero outsmarting the villain or noticing something that was foreshadowed, or something like that. The Iron Man fight-finishing gimmicks don't feel like either of those; both of them would have been just "big explodey deus ex machina" if they hadn't gotten token reveals earlier in the film.

    Slightly more satisfying gimmicks are something like Aladdin tricking Jafar into becoming a genie, The Incredibles using the robot claw, even Spider-man remembering that the symbiote doesn't like loud noises (one of the only parts i didn't hate about 3).

  • HeirHeir Registered User regular
    Yeah I guess the Incredible Hulk works, though even in that one it was kind of an emotional boost that let him win right (Betty's helicopter was being attacked, right? Can't remember on this one).

    I guess I like the idea of a close fight throughout, instead of it being so one-sided until the very end. I also like fights where even though the hero wins, there's some kind of cost associated...either psychological or emotional cost. Like the first Vanko fight in IM2 sort of worked like that...if it had been the last fight (obviously a longer, more even fight), I think it could have done well.

    @KalTorak The Aladdin example isn't a bad one.

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  • NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    The Aladdin example also works there because he was established as a trickster more then a fighter.

    Most of these other heroes though are established as fighters of some kind.

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  • Linespider5Linespider5 I told her on Alderaan nothing else was going on.Registered User regular
    Heir wrote: »
    Yeah I guess the Incredible Hulk works, though even in that one it was kind of an emotional boost that let him win right (Betty's helicopter was being attacked, right? Can't remember on this one).

    I guess I like the idea of a close fight throughout, instead of it being so one-sided until the very end. I also like fights where even though the hero wins, there's some kind of cost associated...either psychological or emotional cost. Like the first Vanko fight in IM2 sort of worked like that...if it had been the last fight (obviously a longer, more even fight), I think it could have done well.

    @KalTorak The Aladdin example isn't a bad one.

    I could see something where the hero can simply out-endure the villain, and wear him down until he's ragged and sloppy. Something with that kind of Ali/Foreman dynamic.

    There are a hell of a lot of gimmick fights in movies in general. People like to be surprised, and a gimmick's a good way to do it, especially if it's a new gimmick. 90% of every fight Indiana Jones has ever been in have been gimmick fights.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Heir wrote: »
    Yeah I guess the Incredible Hulk works, though even in that one it was kind of an emotional boost that let him win right (Betty's helicopter was being attacked, right? Can't remember on this one).

    I guess I like the idea of a close fight throughout, instead of it being so one-sided until the very end. I also like fights where even though the hero wins, there's some kind of cost associated...either psychological or emotional cost. Like the first Vanko fight in IM2 sort of worked like that...if it had been the last fight (obviously a longer, more even fight), I think it could have done well.

    @KalTorak The Aladdin example isn't a bad one.

    I could see something where the hero can simply out-endure the villain, and wear him down until he's ragged and sloppy. Something with that kind of Ali/Foreman dynamic.

    There are a hell of a lot of gimmick fights in movies in general. People like to be surprised, and a gimmick's a good way to do it, especially if it's a new gimmick. 90% of every fight Indiana Jones has ever been in have been gimmick fights.

    That why the first Riami Spider-man finale was excellent. Goblin & Spider-man went at it without holding back, and ended beautifully when
    Spoiler:
    Doc Ock's final fight was excellent, as well. Just for a different yet logical conclusion. The final fights in Begins & Dark Knight was satisfying, too.

  • JoolanderJoolander It's like Christmas But with more ... ME!Registered User regular
    wasn't the end of the first Spider-man straight out of the comics? or at least the Ultimate universe?

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Joolander wrote: »
    wasn't the end of the first Spider-man straight out of the comics? or at least the Ultimate universe?

    It was heavily inspired by 616 Goblin's original death IIRC. Spider-man's spider-bite was closer to the Ultimate version.

  • HeirHeir Registered User regular
    Heir wrote: »
    Yeah I guess the Incredible Hulk works, though even in that one it was kind of an emotional boost that let him win right (Betty's helicopter was being attacked, right? Can't remember on this one).

    I guess I like the idea of a close fight throughout, instead of it being so one-sided until the very end. I also like fights where even though the hero wins, there's some kind of cost associated...either psychological or emotional cost. Like the first Vanko fight in IM2 sort of worked like that...if it had been the last fight (obviously a longer, more even fight), I think it could have done well.

    @KalTorak The Aladdin example isn't a bad one.

    I could see something where the hero can simply out-endure the villain, and wear him down until he's ragged and sloppy. Something with that kind of Ali/Foreman dynamic.

    There are a hell of a lot of gimmick fights in movies in general. People like to be surprised, and a gimmick's a good way to do it, especially if it's a new gimmick. 90% of every fight Indiana Jones has ever been in have been gimmick fights.

    That why the first Riami Spider-man finale was excellent. Goblin & Spider-man went at it without holding back, and ended beautifully when
    Spoiler:
    Doc Ock's final fight was excellent, as well. Just for a different yet logical conclusion. The final fights in Begins & Dark Knight was satisfying, too.

    I actually thought about using the first Spider Man as an example of something I liked a bit better...I liked how Spider Man wasn't just beaten down, he was messed with psychologically in an effective way. That and their fight was just brutal at points.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Heir wrote: »
    Heir wrote: »
    Yeah I guess the Incredible Hulk works, though even in that one it was kind of an emotional boost that let him win right (Betty's helicopter was being attacked, right? Can't remember on this one).

    I guess I like the idea of a close fight throughout, instead of it being so one-sided until the very end. I also like fights where even though the hero wins, there's some kind of cost associated...either psychological or emotional cost. Like the first Vanko fight in IM2 sort of worked like that...if it had been the last fight (obviously a longer, more even fight), I think it could have done well.

    @KalTorak The Aladdin example isn't a bad one.

    I could see something where the hero can simply out-endure the villain, and wear him down until he's ragged and sloppy. Something with that kind of Ali/Foreman dynamic.

    There are a hell of a lot of gimmick fights in movies in general. People like to be surprised, and a gimmick's a good way to do it, especially if it's a new gimmick. 90% of every fight Indiana Jones has ever been in have been gimmick fights.

    That why the first Riami Spider-man finale was excellent. Goblin & Spider-man went at it without holding back, and ended beautifully when
    Spoiler:
    Doc Ock's final fight was excellent, as well. Just for a different yet logical conclusion. The final fights in Begins & Dark Knight was satisfying, too.

    I actually thought about using the first Spider Man as an example of something I liked a bit better...I liked how Spider Man wasn't just beaten down, he was messed with psychologically in an effective way. That and their fight was just brutal at points.

    Yup. It was almost painful to watch.

  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    It did bug me a little that, if Spider-Man hadn't jumped out of the way... Goblin still would have gotten impaled. He really didn't think that one through very well.

  • NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    Crazy people aren't exactly known for well thought out impulse planning.

    Heck most normal people aren't either.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Nocren wrote: »
    Crazy people aren't exactly known for well thought out impulse planning.

    Heck most normal people aren't either.

    Norman was in the driver's seat at that point. He was less impulsive than the Goblin persona. He had very little training, experience or strategy for combat unlike his split personality.

    Harry Dresden on
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Death Groupie Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    One of these days I'm going to track down every single non-Marvel Studios marvel film and watch them, in order of release, one a day.

    Yes, including Elektra.. and the Reb Brown Captain America films.
    Nocren wrote: »
    Crazy people aren't exactly known for well thought out impulse planning.

    Heck most normal people aren't either.

    Norman was in the driver's seat at that point. He was less impulsive than the Goblin persona. He had very little training, experience or strategy for combat unlike his split personality.

    I thought the whole point of that scene was that Goblin was faking the "It's me, Norman, your pals Dad!" bit to spring his trap on Spider-Man. Though it has been an age since I watched that movie.

    Undead Scottsman on
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  • Psychotic OnePsychotic One Never let an alligator... Do your taxesRegistered User regular
    One of these days I'm going to track down every single non-Marvel Studios marvel film and watch them, in order of release, one a day.

    Yes, including Elektra.. and the Reb Brown Captain America films.
    Nocren wrote: »
    Crazy people aren't exactly known for well thought out impulse planning.

    Heck most normal people aren't either.

    Norman was in the driver's seat at that point. He was less impulsive than the Goblin persona. He had very little training, experience or strategy for combat unlike his split personality.

    I thought the whole point of that scene was that Goblin was faking the "It's me, Norman, your pals Dad!" bit to spring his trap on Spider-Man. Though it has been an age since I watched that movie.

    Don't watch Elektra. Just don't. Its a vile poison that will rot your soul. I can not forgive them for what they did with Typhoid Mary.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Death Groupie Registered User regular
    As Nick Fury once said, "You take the good with the bad."

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    One of these days I'm going to track down every single non-Marvel Studios marvel film and watch them, in order of release, one a day.

    Yes, including Elektra.. and the Reb Brown Captain America films.
    Nocren wrote: »
    Crazy people aren't exactly known for well thought out impulse planning.

    Heck most normal people aren't either.

    Norman was in the driver's seat at that point. He was less impulsive than the Goblin persona. He had very little training, experience or strategy for combat unlike his split personality.

    I thought the whole point of that scene was that Goblin was faking the "It's me, Norman, your pals Dad!" bit to spring his trap on Spider-Man. Though it has been an age since I watched that movie.

    Don't watch Elektra. Just don't. Its a vile poison that will rot your soul. I can not forgive them for what they did with Typhoid Mary.

    It was better than Daredevil (including the director's cut) and Ghost Rider.

  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Outside the cool fight scenes, I didn't like Thor or Iron Man 2.

    Let me tell you something buddy. I love Thor to death.

    The fight scenes were awful. The middle is ok but the Frost giant fight is dark and jittery and the fight with the armor was 12 seconds long.

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  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    I thought Thor was a decidedly sub-par flick, totally saved by the phenomenal characters and acting. It could have been worse. It should have been worse. But they bumped a C movie up to a high B+/low A-.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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  • MatriasMatrias Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I loved Thor. Good, fun characters goes a long way. Because, yeah, it totally should have been worse.

    Does anyone else get the impression the cast had general enthusiasm with what they were making it? Like, you can watch and tell they're having fun.

    Except for Natalie Portman, who does a passable job, but looks exhausted in every shot. You can tell she burned herself out on Black Swan.

    Matrias on
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  • Linespider5Linespider5 I told her on Alderaan nothing else was going on.Registered User regular
    One of these days I'm going to track down every single non-Marvel Studios marvel film and watch them, in order of release, one a day.

    Yes, including Elektra.. and the Reb Brown Captain America films.
    Nocren wrote: »
    Crazy people aren't exactly known for well thought out impulse planning.

    Heck most normal people aren't either.

    Norman was in the driver's seat at that point. He was less impulsive than the Goblin persona. He had very little training, experience or strategy for combat unlike his split personality.

    I thought the whole point of that scene was that Goblin was faking the "It's me, Norman, your pals Dad!" bit to spring his trap on Spider-Man. Though it has been an age since I watched that movie.

    Don't watch Elektra. Just don't. Its a vile poison that will rot your soul. I can not forgive them for what they did with Typhoid Mary.

    It was better than Daredevil (including the director's cut) and Ghost Rider.

    I tried watching Elektra. But nothing happened. NOTHING HAPPENED.

    Ghost Rider I was oddly okay with. It didn't impress me, but it wasn't dumb.

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  • mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    You guys were all correct:

    Dark Knight trailer attached to Avengers

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  • HeirHeir Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Boom, called it. :)

    Edit: Though to be fair, that wasn't a hard one to call.

    Heir on
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  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    You're not terrible, you just are bad at determining what awesome looks like. :P

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  • mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    I know most of my brain can only process how amazing Avengers looks and how excited I am for it, so maybe after Ive seen it things will change, but Im with you jdark. Just not really all that excited for Bane, or the next Batman.

    XBL: MXrox - PSN: mxmarks - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    mxmarks wrote: »
    I know most of my brain can only process how amazing Avengers looks and how excited I am for it, so maybe after Ive seen it things will change, but Im with you jdark. Just not really all that excited for Bane, or the next Batman.

    Did you see the teaser clip for DKR where Bane is arrested and held on a plane?

    That may go down as one of the best and fucked up escape sequences of any movie ever.

    I am beyond excite for both films. This will be a great year for superhero flicks.

  • HeirHeir Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    mxmarks wrote: »
    I know most of my brain can only process how amazing Avengers looks and how excited I am for it, so maybe after Ive seen it things will change, but Im with you jdark. Just not really all that excited for Bane, or the next Batman.

    Did you see the teaser clip for DKR where Bane is arrested and held on a plane?

    That may go down as one of the best and fucked up escape sequences of any movie ever.

    I am beyond excite for both films. This will be a great year for superhero flicks.

    I did not see that one. Link?

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  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    Heir wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    mxmarks wrote: »
    I know most of my brain can only process how amazing Avengers looks and how excited I am for it, so maybe after Ive seen it things will change, but Im with you jdark. Just not really all that excited for Bane, or the next Batman.

    Did you see the teaser clip for DKR where Bane is arrested and held on a plane?

    That may go down as one of the best and fucked up escape sequences of any movie ever.

    I am beyond excite for both films. This will be a great year for superhero flicks.

    I did not see that one. Link?
    you would need a time machine and the ability to go to an IMAX screening of Ghost Protocol in the first weekend.

    It was SUPER limited.

    I am sure there are low quality camera recordings out on the net... but the studios really don't want that clip floating around, despite it being awesome.

    It is also where a lot of the "Bane sounds like he has a mouthful of bees" stuff is coming from. He is very talky in this clip, and it is hard to understand sometimes.

  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    it didn't help that the only versions available online were the crappy cam recordings.

    It was basically the same as when they released the Joker's bank robbery sequence in front of... I forget which movie, but it was also IMAX only. Both really cool introductions to the villain.

  • Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular
    i had no idea what he was saying in that clip

    but it was awesome

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  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    just occurred to me how weird it is that these two guys
    Spoiler:

    are the same people as these two guys
    Spoiler:

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Death Groupie Registered User regular
    My brain still breaks that Jim Gordon is also Zorg from the Fifth Element.

    I'm not sure how it's possible for one man to have that much range.

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This discussion has been closed.