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[SW:TOR]: PvP Thread. Ilum, you are terrible.

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Posts

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Guild Wars 2 is the MMO that is not having retarded pvp gear, and I have a feeling it'll be the one that ushers in a new era of MMO pvp.

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    People say that about a lot of new games. It's always the second coming, the lord and savior, the incoming nirvana. I'll be waiting until it happens, personally.

    Morninglord on
    My Dark Souls 2 Diary Day 6 and 7 Updated
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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    You said it was unlikely an MMO would not have pvp gear progression and be popular. GW2 is not having gear with a special pvp stat progression, and it had over a million people sign up for beta in 48 hours. Those are just the facts. Now whether the game will be as good as it looks is another story, but it's being made by the people with the most popular cooperative multiplayer RPG ever under their belts, and I've seen the game in action, so I am inclined to get very excited for it. =)

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    That is a misunderstanding. I said it is unlikely to get all the variables you need at once. I consider them independent variables to a degree, although I do realise that they can affect each other. But I don't think they are causally linked. So I do not think "no pvp gear progression" therefore "popular". What makes something popular depends on too many different variables to link it in that way. I also mentioned good class balance, which is another quasi independent variable that I also think needs to occur. You can have a popular mmo with terrible class balance.
    I'm also inclined to believe that gw2 will not affect subbed mmo's very much. It's free which is a different model and mode of thinking, both for consumers and developers.
    For example, it is entirely possible to buy gw2 and have a subscription. In the same way a person has an mmo subscription but also buys, say, a ps3 game to play. They don't directly compete with one another.

    I approach any new mmo with a mix of skepticism and prediction based on past behaviors. I try to avoid hyped thinking and I definitely do not like making sweeping predictions about how a new mmo will change all other mmos. Past experience has shown this rarely occurs, with some notable outliers that have exceptional circumstances.

    Morninglord on
    My Dark Souls 2 Diary Day 6 and 7 Updated
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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    I think GW2 will absolutely affect subscription games long term if it's as good and fun as it looks like it's shaping up to be. Because people won't be willing to pay sub fees for lesser games any more after they play a better one. TOR is WoW with voices, and it isn't enough to keep me playing any longer. Once you get to 50 and realize you'll never get legitimately competitive pvp because of the bullshit gear progression, and you raid a bit and realize it's not the kind of thing you're into bothering with any more, it's just the same old thing. People are dying for something new.

  • NyhtNyht Registered User regular
    Hey a lot of Ebon Hawk people on here. Hurray!

    I play Loxsus (50 shadow) on the Republic side and now have a sith sorc healer (34) on the empire. Rolling Galactic Doughnut style

  • OtakingOtaking Registered User regular
    It's an archaic mechanism that exists only because previous mmos do it. The second one mmo doesn't do it and is extremely popular it will stop happening. That is...unlikely. It's hard enough just being a popular mmo, without also having good class balance and then pushing a new (new = risky) idea past the design stage into the finished product.

    I don't agree because it's a core defining trait of RPGs...you kill shit and your shit gets more powerful. In fact I'm hoping for a mode in GW2 that allows realm combat + gear grind. To balance this out you don't walk into an arena vs. 8 people...instead you walk into a HUGE battlefield vs. two other servers once you are geared. With larger battlefields and objectives gear grind starts to make sense as smaller groups of people can hold or take vs. larger groups...the fun of a 'war' vs. a 'tournament'.

    I've had amazingly fun times holding a set of tunnels versus two warbands on the opposition side with a 6 man group in Warhammer for instance...experiences you just can't recreate with full gear balance and a small warzone. Even on the losing side I remember going up against ONE (1) ridiculously PVE geared hunter in Alterac Valley in the old days of early cross server who was mowing everyone down like field mice. It was just cool to see everyone trying to bring this one guy down.

    Without gear grind, MMOs and FPS start to become indistinguishable from one another. In fact FPS games have been putting IN gear grind for a while now. People do like progression and the core idea behind gear progression is so you can take on harder challenges, you can only do this in realm style combat which SWTOR lacks and not 8 man WZs. Obviously having both modes would be clutch, gear grind realm style and non-gear grind tournament style but I don't think gear progression should be completely abandoned in PVP.

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    The core defining trait of an RPG is the ability to take up the role of a character in a fictional setting following an established set of gameplay rules. (Such as rolling dice to score for example)

    That's...pretty much it. Everything else is up for grabs. Including how gear works.

    I get your point, but a gearless game with high skill caps on all classes would still result in small groups wiping large groups or a lone skilled player taking out many others. You don't need gear progression for it.

    I don't think it is very important to distinguish an RPG from an FPS any further than how their gameplay mechanics work. I also disagree that this is all that separates the genres. You aren't going to get COD by removing gear progression. The core gameplay mechanics divorced of gear progression in both genres are already differentiated enough.

    Morninglord on
    My Dark Souls 2 Diary Day 6 and 7 Updated
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  • OtakingOtaking Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    You aren't going to get COD by removing gear progression.

    We really should say gear and level progression, progression is progression right? Whether you put on a new armor or a new +1 level your character has some growth. Let's just say progression.

    So if I dumb down COD's physics engine and add some clunky wannabe turn based aiming/cooldown system do I then have an MMORPG? I think I would. I think I would get an FPS by taking an RPG, throwing out progression, and adding a better physics engine and true real time combat also. No, it won't magically become COD but we can easily convert a MMO to/from a FPS because the gameplay is becoming less divergent.
    The core defining trait of an RPG is the ability to take up the role of a character in a fictional setting following an established set of gameplay rules. (Such as rolling dice to score for example)

    COD absolutely is a RPG within your own definition. So is Doom I, II, Counterstrike, Duke Nukem, Half-Life, Portal, and any other FPS I can name. Yet I don't think people would classify them as RPGs in general. Mass Effect is a FPS because it has aiming and guns.
    I don't think it is very important to distinguish an RPG from a FPS any further than how their gameplay mechanics work.

    Important? I don't know if I attach "important" to anything concerning video games, but there is a tactical and fun element of gearing your character that's lost when you remove gear/progression. There's an element of having worked to get something other people may not have when you remove progression. These things are fun, not important.
    a gearless game with high skill caps on all classes would still result in small groups wiping large groups or a lone skilled player taking out many others. You don't need gear progression for it.

    I'll grant you this, as I've been in those groups and been that character in TF2 before they added any gear, but as FPS and RPGs merge into the same genre, we're losing something fun in the process by throwing out character progression. People like to have something to show for all those hours of play beyond cosmetics.

    Back to the topic, I submit that SWTOR could be much improved by adding some open world PVP with mixed PVE/PVP elements and could keep gear progression there. Having a guy geared enough to solo a keep lord or BO in WH was pretty lulzy and it's just fun to be "one worth a hundred" in a RPG. Where is hijacking a ship by assassinating a captain mob and doing a bombing run...anything...the WZs are nicely set up tbh but the game really needs open world PVP....to keep my interest anyway. I'm really finding the WZs repetitive and PVE just doesn't do it for me. If I could kill players with the PVE gear it'd be a lot more exciting to upgrade there.

    Otaking on
  • Enosh20Enosh20 Registered User regular
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Guild Wars 2 is the MMO that is not having retarded pvp gear, and I have a feeling it'll be the one that ushers in a new era of MMO pvp.
    all hail mmo jesus

  • trevelliantrevellian Registered User regular
    Enosh20 wrote: »
    all hail mmo jesus

    You need to get more emphasis on the Jesus part or the evangelicals will know you're a phony.

    Sort of of a "Ja-eeesu-ss!" type thing.


    Anyhoo - back to SWTOR PvP,

    What happened to all the Imp healers on Nightmare Lands?

    Prior to 1.2, I would go warzone PuG'ing and on a bad day it would take 3 runs before I got a warzone win for a daily - post 1.2 it seems that all the imp healers have disappeared and now it is not unusual for me to go 8-10 warzones before getting a win. The rebel side doesn't seem to have been affected by this as they are full to the brim with sages, commando and sawbones....

    Doesn't help that PuG WZs on imp side are now resembling attempts to herd cats - I've even tried marking healers but it seems to be a futile cause.

    Pfft.


    McGough_EA.png
  • OtakingOtaking Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    trevellian wrote: »
    Enosh20 wrote: »
    all hail mmo jesus

    You need to get more emphasis on the Jesus part or the evangelicals will know you're a phony.

    Sort of of a "Ja-eeesu-ss!" type thing.


    Anyhoo - back to SWTOR PvP,

    What happened to all the Imp healers on Nightmare Lands?

    Prior to 1.2, I would go warzone PuG'ing and on a bad day it would take 3 runs before I got a warzone win for a daily - post 1.2 it seems that all the imp healers have disappeared and now it is not unusual for me to go 8-10 warzones before getting a win. The rebel side doesn't seem to have been affected by this as they are full to the brim with sages, commando and sawbones....

    Doesn't help that PuG WZs on imp side are now resembling attempts to herd cats - I've even tried marking healers but it seems to be a futile cause.

    Pfft.


    Healers don't want to play in the new damage-centric short TTK game post 1.2 since healing across the board was nerfed and expertise effectively buffed for damage with the overload of it on gear now. I'm sure this isn't unique to your server.

    As for any Imp/Rebel healer imbalance my pet theory is healers tend to want to be Yodas, Commandos, or Han Solos more often since they are more team & lightside oriented in style than your Palpatines, Boba Fetts and Insert Agent Names who are probably more interested in throwing lightning, missiles, and backstabs than heals. Just in general. I know I personally would play a Sage healer but never an Inq because my first KOTOR character was a Sage that just healed, parried, and dominated everything with massive lightside powers. Darkside healing just rubs me the wrong way.

    I know on my PVP server we saw about 3 to 1 Sages to Inqs and Commandos to Mercs for the healing variety in most matches pre 1.2.

    Otaking on
  • trevelliantrevellian Registered User regular
    Otaking wrote: »
    Healers don't want to play in the new damage-centric short TTK game post 1.2

    *shrug* I don't mind still running through on my Operative healer (granted I am only level 48) - sure I am not as effective as pre-patch (actually, on the Op that may not be the case, got a few buffs there as well), but some healer is better than no healer, the win-loss rate against the healer heavy reb teams shows that.

    I was just surprised how rare it now is to see an imp healer on our server whereas pre 1.2 I would see at least one per PuG. Although I have a suspicion that considering the number of snipers and marauders I am seeing sub-level 20 I know what alt the y switched to.

    Serves me right for levelling 6 alts I guess. Trying to do 6 dailies each evening is painful.

    McGough_EA.png
  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    I'm inclined to agree anecdotally? I know my server was always healer heavy Republic side, and almost entirely devoid of them Imp side.

    And yeah, healers in my guild are pretty meh about queuing right now, most just do the daily and stop, contributing to the shortage even more. Prior to the patch we'd queue all night, now dailies are a chore we have to do to not fall behind. Maybe once there are 8 man premades so I don't end up randoming 4 cannon fodder that I just plain can't waste ammo on because they don't have the required 900 intro Expertise? Idk.

    Sure it's still playable, it's just not fun right now.

    WoW: Retired Army ~ SC2: iSh.120 ~ D3: Ish#1521 ~ Steam: Ishie ~ GW2: Ish.5760 ~ FFXIV: Kitty!
  • Catastrophe_XXVICatastrophe_XXVI Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I still think MMOs are missing the point of what makes pvp fun and repeatable. They need to start asking why people sit and play games and matches over and over again, whether it's Halo, DotA or Mariokart. These games don't have you leveling up a character or gearing a character so that after x hours of gameplay you can beat people who aren't as far along as you. They make the start of each game the same and everyone is on equal ground only changed by some minor choices the players made at the beginning of the match. Team comp in dota, load outs in CoD, etc. Then the players get ahead and level-up or change as the game progresses. You may get the rocket launcher in Halo and score some critical kills or farm more gold in dota to buy some better items. But in each scenario it all depends on how well you do and the players your against. And because these descisions each game feels unique your character ends the game differently than when they began it.

    Until MMOs get this and say (as an example),"look you're a max level paladin, this means you can enter a pvp match using your choice of 3 load outs that level up over the match and your gear is set to this that also upgrades during the match" and then offer mods or new load outs or cosmetic changes to players who invest and do better over time, MMO pvp will always be kind of bland. (generally speaking)

    Just doing something that allows play styles and strategies to change and adapt in a meaningful way and cause huge variance in each experiance.

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  • ArchonexArchonex Registered User
    edited April 2012
    Healers were incredibly overpowered before. You could tank someone to death with one if you knew what you were doing, and there was nothing the person could do against you unless they were one of the unbalanced classes themselves.

    You saw the same thing in beta and at release. People would go for hybrid sorcs or other builds to get an edge on people.

    Now that healing was nerfed so that bringing more healers to a match no longer always equals up to a win by default, more people are actually being forced to learn to play instead of just spam heal keys while occasionally throwing out DPS.

    Coincidentally, a fair portion of people prioritize winning over having fun. Which should have been obvious from watching the PTS forums prior to the new content update. Which was filled with people threatening to quit/give the game bad publicity/making dubious arguments about why it's okay for them to be insanely overpowered and not everyone else. Thus, the drop in healers. People are trying to reroll to the next FOTM build.

    Coincidentally, i've noticed that fire powertechs do an insane amount of damage with the right gear. And there's a few people leveling the next two or three button push bullshit build up on my server.

    Archonex on
  • Catastrophe_XXVICatastrophe_XXVI Registered User regular
    Yup, I just cancelled my subscription after realizing that, that's the state of pvp. You can give classes hundreds of abilities but if you design it so that all a player needs to be doing is spamming one until another button lights up That's what they are gonna do.

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  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    Healing hasn't really changed all that much in PvP, I'm not sure where the idea came from that it has. Scoundrels/Ops were buffed, Sage/Sorc and Commando/Mercs took a hit to overall efficiency mechanics, which affect PvE much more than PvP.

    Damage itself has become more bursty, there's a few factors in there. Class mechanics changed, Expertise changed, other misc stats changed (my health dropped by 1000). I'm sure there are plenty of people that resubbed for the patch that didn't realize the Recruit gear was an upgrade over their Champion/Centurion so they melt on contact: I think this right here is the big one, because geared folks aren't having many issues by themselves.

    Prepatch, it seemed like we knew everyone on the server that PvPed. Now, I rarely recognize anyone outside my group. The random 50's aren't in the Recruit gear. As I mentioned, they may not realize it's better or even know about it, or they might not necessarily be able to afford it if the "average" 50 had like 400k credits before the Legacy moneysinks. Healing doesn't feel very "fun" or rewarding right now. I can't outskill Mr. McResubbed in his mighty greens falling over at a dirty look from a Sentinel, no matter how much that's seen as a failure on my part. I couldn't do that before the patch either, it's just that there weren't four of that guy in every freakin game.

    That's the big disappointment in not having rated warzones. My elitist ass should be queuing with and against other elitist jerks like myself, not carrying the new generation of FotM kids in no PvP gear 50's to their three wins. I totally understand the faction/population balance reasons as to why they haven't rolled them out yet, but the carrot was dangled I want it now. (Veruca Salt voice) The few games we get that are all the War Hero/Conquerors feel about the same as they used to. A trio of healers are still unstoppable if the other team still hasn't figured out how to divide and conquer.

    Abrupt subject swap: Something I was pretty surprised about... I personally am totally on board with a normalized stat model for pvp. Half of this is my competitive side. The other half is my selfish side, as I'm definitely an altoholic. (I end up doing exactly the opposite of swapping to the OP class though, I end up swapping to the underpowered one because yes, I am that masochistic) But I'd love to hit 50 not have to grind grind grind all over again, ugh.

    So I brought stat normalization up with my guildies last night, and they disagreed. I was surprised, especially since we pretty much all work 50+ hours a week so we're behind on the gear curve. They're just that ingrained with the typical MMO stat progression upgrade system. (they *did* bring up the point that you can reoptimize your gear for better secondary stats to minimize diminishing returns, I still argue it's bad design they f'd up and gave me 171 more crit and 191 less power than a Merc, I digress)
    The gear advantage is generally an illusion anyway; you're not going to run (competitive) rated groups with anyone in less than full Battlemaster, so everyone's on even-ish footing.

    WoW: Retired Army ~ SC2: iSh.120 ~ D3: Ish#1521 ~ Steam: Ishie ~ GW2: Ish.5760 ~ FFXIV: Kitty!
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    I can't imagine why anybody would ever want stat based gear grind in mmo pvp. If Bioware announced today they were doing away with it, and the only rewards for pvping would be cosmetic gear sets, titles, etc., I would actually keep playing TOR. As it is, I have no reason to keep playing. Hell, one of my buddies who is an insanely good player and would have a great time pvping has never stepped foot into a 50 WZ, specifically because he wants no part of the pointless gear grind to have an even playing field.

    PvP should always be about the competition. It just happened that back when raid geared dudes were raping people in wow, Blizzard came up with the wrong solution, and now it gets copied by most everybody else.

  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    OK, so after grilling the pro-grind people last night, here were the 2 1/2 reasons for it:

    The 1/2: They crave upgrades, even if it's a totally trivial 5 damage increase. For the most part they did concede that being able to flaunt stuff they had that others didn't was a big part of the "want" for the upgrade, hence the 1/2. This could be replaced by cosmetic gear to fill the "look at how exclusive I am" psychological want.

    I'll call this the PvE mindset: Raid content is designed to be cleared in the gear you picked up in the previous tier. Once you clear it enough times and everyone has their best in slot, you can do all kinds of silly things like 4 man Soa or super speed clears. Just dumb stuff because you can. This is the best way I can try to explain his mindset without just calling him out for unsportsmanlike behavior, because I really do feel like roflstomping people because of gear got old like, when I was 15.

    The last reason, is the super-optimizing of stats. Dropping most crit for power/surge for example, so sustained damage goes down but that guaranteed crit ability will hit hard when it procs. OK, stronger in one sense, weaker in another, this is a reasoning I can get behind.

    WoW: Retired Army ~ SC2: iSh.120 ~ D3: Ish#1521 ~ Steam: Ishie ~ GW2: Ish.5760 ~ FFXIV: Kitty!
  • KlatzyKlatzy Registered User
    The gear/progression is unfortunately a big part of the MMO appeal (RPGs in general). It speaks directly to the reward centers; you feel like your getting more powerful over time. Without it there isn't a lasting pull of the game, basically it's similar to mild addiction in most cases. Non-grind games (relatively speaking), FPS's to a certain although many now have some sort of progression (i.e. achievements, unlocks) have a more visceral, adrenaline-filled experience. MMO pvp can have that too it's a little more abstract, literally more 3rd-person instead of 1st-person.

    In relation to the healer issue for 1.2, the shorter TTK makes stuns, respawn timers, mezzes, etc more significant. If you only live 4 seconds instead of 6, that 4 second stun is a killer. The drawback to a shorter TTK is that your uptime is much lower if you run against a better geared/organized opponent. You spend much more time starting at the respawn barrier. Not as much fun. Many healers just don't like the post 1.2 experience. I've been seeing more dps overall.

    What I've noticed in the last week or so, is that the imps generally come as geared-premades (+ a few randoms) or mostly randoms. The Pubs have more randoms and fresh 50s. Some nights if there are a lot of vets on we roll the imps fairly often, occasionally running into stiff competition. Other nights, you face the same premade over and over and we lose. I begin to get annoyed at the fresh 50s even though it's not their fault really. Cross-servers will help, once premades tend to fight each other, at least I hope so.

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  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    For PvP gear, I would rather they just sold the orange shells for credits and then we buy the item modifications that go in them with pvp tokens. Battlemaster is just poorly designed for some classes. Snipers have far too much accuracy and not enough surge. I still trade out a few of the new BM enhancements for the old power/surge champ enhancements. The same goes for dps assassins, who DO NOT NEED ACCURACY AT ALL, but it's all over the gear.

    That's what really keeps me from pvping on my alts. The gear to look forward to just makes me wrinkle my nose.

    So far as roflstomping gear gaps... eh. It's really not a very big divide. If you've got champ gear, you can compete (even if your expertise is a little low). It's the EXTREMELY rare fight that comes down to 5% dps instead of proper cooldown and skill usage. I'd rather everyone was on equal footing, but even so, champ mixed with recruit was what I started with on my sniper this patch, and I've never felt that it held me back.

    On TTK- it's out of hand. On my sniper, I'll drop a healer in 10-15 seconds flat (if I don't get lucky on crits.) Faster if I do get lucky on crits. Resolve has little meaning when one stun can be the difference between life and death (and often is, nowadays). It's fun blowing people up, but I realize it's not exactly good for the game.

    My big gripe with PvP is... I miss Huttball :( . Voidstar can eat a dick; I want to play huttball. But no, they had to make that same faction.

    "The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us."
    Spoiler:
    -Theodore Roosevelt
  • DetharinDetharin Registered User regular
    Huttball is absolutely terrible on so many levels I could probably write a paper on why it exemplifies terrible design in a map designed for player vs player combat.

    If I was kidnapped, woke up in a lab, told they were going to replace my vocal cords with those of Tony Jay, and lock me in a sound booth until the day I die I would look those bastards right in the eye and say "Alright you sons of bitches lets do this. This one is for the children."
  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    Detharin wrote: »
    Huttball is absolutely terrible on so many levels I could probably write a paper on why it exemplifies terrible design in a map designed for player vs player combat.

    Rather than write a paper (that I'm sure would be just riveting), how about you give us the cliff notes version?

    "The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us."
    Spoiler:
    -Theodore Roosevelt
  • DetharinDetharin Registered User regular
    It exacerbates problems within flawed class designed. Classes were never designed with Huttball in mind, and certain abilities can rocket or sink the usefulness of one class over another in team based play. One person playing very badly can effectively cost you a match either by spamming either useless CCs, CCing at the wrong times, or by standing in certain areas of the map effectively opening up easy scores. It prioritizes forced movement abilities over pretty much anything as you can either move an enemy into a death pit, move yourself over them, or move someone else over them.

    Environmental hazards should always function as an idiot check. They should be easily avoidable unless you make a mistake or are tricked into making a mistake. Take the bridges on Voidstar, while it is possible to knock people to their deaths most people quickly learn how to avoid it. Huttball environmental hazards instead act as a means of free kills for anyone with a pull or a decent enough duration CC with the only potential counter being your CC breaker and even if you hit it immediately you are still going to die.

    It actively discourages actual Player Vs Player combat as on offense you are penalized for killing players, as it is better to stun, or knock them off into the pits where more classes are effectively out of the fights as opposed to killing them and causing them to respawn where they can more effectively impede your from scoring.

    The tiered level design is a LOS nightmare.

    The ball throwing mechanic is clumsy, and not explained to new players.

    The ball occasionally will reset to the middle for no discernible reason.

    Games can stalemate into 15 minutes of pure hell decided by which team is able to grab the ball and camp in their pit until the timer has expired making it a risk to attempt to advance the ball during the closing minutes of the game.

    Quick effective communication is almost a necessity increasing dependance on vent/ts/mumble/whatever whereas in a voidstar/civil war/new one all a person on defense needs to do is call incs and numbers that can easily be done quickly. Whereas trying to explain your position on the map to someone running the ball is much more time dependent, and clunky.

    Winning strategies are not exactly fun. While leveling my smuggler alt I spent quite a few games just sitting invisible next to the enemy goal line for cheap points. I rarely got any medals, and often was responsible for every goal we scored. Devoting players to finding me was a lost cause between effectively adding 15 levels to my stealth on a short cooldown, tranq shot, and disappearing act I could easily avoid several people searching for me, or lure them away from the side my team was advancing on.

    It is a piss poorly designed map that no one outside of stacked 8 mans looking for quick wins will queue for once we have the ability to choose what we want to play.

    If I was kidnapped, woke up in a lab, told they were going to replace my vocal cords with those of Tony Jay, and lock me in a sound booth until the day I die I would look those bastards right in the eye and say "Alright you sons of bitches lets do this. This one is for the children."
  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I <3 Sageball because the classes I play are ranged and/or have a knockback and/or a leap, but that map really is skewed so heavily in favor of Sage's Rescue and Guardian's two leaps it's silly. I can't imagine how rage inducing it must be on a Scoundrel with no true knockback to try to kill anyone up on a platform. Sweet, they knocked me down, do I run all the way around to get back up or play air jet lotto? Oh, they knocked me down again.

    So my tank was on last night, we queued for eleven games and won ten. The funny thing is that Huttball is the only thing that even feels remotely tactical to me anymore, everything else is just a FPS style meatgrinder. Explode mans, zerg back. Bleh.
    The ball occasionally will reset to the middle for no discernible reason.
    Oh yeah, and what the #$%^&ing $%^& is with that? At least I'm not totally crazy, this has happened to me so many times I can't count. (I ball carry in almost every game) My Huttball bind is Alt-Mouse button 5 so there is absolutely no way I'm accidentally hitting it, but sometimes I just don't have the ball anymore.



    Oh, I also helped win my team a low level game on my Sage by being a Chiss. No really, enough people on the opposing team stopped in (RvR) Denova to check out how blue I was that we capped the South with them standing on it.

    Ishtaar on
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  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    I see. You hate all the things about Huttball that I actually like. I prefer tactical gameplay. /shrug

    I've never seen the huttball go to the mid without reason. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's never happened in the many, many games I've played. Usually it's someone going invis or an operative aoe invis or something that resets the ball.

    I think there should actually be more games like Huttball. The "zerg point A to get it" mechanic is boring and old to me. But some people prefer it, I suppose.

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  • ShawnaseeShawnasee Registered User regular
    Hint: if you're the op leader and the only thing you use chat for is to yell at people, you're doing it wrong.

    Also, if you are NEW to pvping in SWTOR read your chat...there are some of us that DO use chat to provide productive guidance.

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  • ChaosRedChaosRed Registered User
    edited April 2012
    <removed, wrong thread>

    ChaosRed on
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  • KlatzyKlatzy Registered User
    I agree with Derrick, the difference in tactics/strategy in Huttball from all the other WZs makes it cool. The 3D layout, dependence on utility abilities, reduced dependence on dps and heals, and deadly environment is what makes it fun. I play an operative so I know how limited I can bee in Huttball but I still love it.

    It can be annoying when your team has no Jedi or what is it Vanguard who can grapple? but the variety in tactics is much better than the other three.

    Alderaan it's get there the fastest with the most and you win. For pubs it's almost always Left and Mid. You can try L R but the layout discourages it.

    Voidstar it's who can dos and heal the most for the most consistent strategy. Stealth helps a lot here but the gameplay doesn't vary that much.

    Novare coast, like Alderaan but with a larger map and cap mechanic that's is better for offense.

    I'd like Bioware to think about adding in mechanics that would encourage more offense and less static play. In Alderaan, once someone has a 2 cap it's pretty difficult to recap and overcome the lead.

    e89267f8422727d5.png
  • Catastrophe_XXVICatastrophe_XXVI Registered User regular
    Shawnasee wrote: »
    Hint: if you're the op leader and the only thing you use chat for is to yell at people, you're doing it wrong.

    Also, if you are NEW to pvping in SWTOR read your chat...there are some of us that DO use chat to provide productive guidance.

    Lol, how about simple things like buff when you respawn, and don't just buff right away wait untl there are others there to do it on.

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  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I had a hilarious game with Basil, who was told to go sit on our side point in alderaan since he was the lowbiest. We then had the closest game I've seen in a while, with me eventually heading off to the middle to try and help. All the while the guy who told Basil to head off was bitching and cursing and commanding and moaning.
    We ended up losing by only a few points. Any help, at all, would have turned it to our side. The guy with the motor mouth actually wasted time standing and bitching at people in the last 15 seconds of the match instead of doing something himself, when he was the only person alive at the time and only one enemy was left. He then bitched at all of us for losing.

    Turns out Basil was the only healer. And that guy told Basil to fuck off to the sidelines. We had a good laugh about his stupidity.

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  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    Lol, how about simple things like buff when you respawn, and don't just buff right away wait untl there are others there to do it on.

    Ooh, ooh, or how about: Also rebuff anytime there's no combat occurring for the people that died.

    Or start mashing that Meditate/Reload/whatever button the split second you're out of combat.

    Or please don't force pull a guy from the other team toward the end zone so you don't have to walk over to start hitting him.

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  • DetharinDetharin Registered User regular
    Derrick wrote: »
    I see. You hate all the things about Huttball that I actually like. I prefer tactical gameplay. /shrug

    I've never seen the huttball go to the mid without reason. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's never happened in the many, many games I've played. Usually it's someone going invis or an operative aoe invis or something that resets the ball.

    I think there should actually be more games like Huttball. The "zerg point A to get it" mechanic is boring and old to me. But some people prefer it, I suppose.

    I prefer fair and balanced game play. Huttball fails to deliver that. It is a deeply flawed map, that even when I am winning I just hate to play it. The problem is not the huttball concept, it is the huttball map itself. It is just absolutely terrible.

    If you are running one of the classes that is heavily favored in huttball then likely you will have more fun, personally I cant stand it on either of my two characters. My guild had it blacklisted when we ran guild groups. The four of us would just leave queue, not because we wouldn't likely win, but because we had no fun playing it.

    If I was kidnapped, woke up in a lab, told they were going to replace my vocal cords with those of Tony Jay, and lock me in a sound booth until the day I die I would look those bastards right in the eye and say "Alright you sons of bitches lets do this. This one is for the children."
  • StrikaStrika Registered User regular
    I play a concealment operative, I enjoy huttball the most. Whether when I am playing with one of my premade groups, and we are just rolling people, or solo queing and making it a point to destroy sages/sorcerers. It does make me wish I had a knockback, so when I see a player getting in position on the the bridges for a pass/pull, I could knock them off. As it is, if I try to kill them/stun lock, they eventually knock me off if they have any skill. Still fun.

  • Chases Street DemonsChases Street Demons Registered User regular
    I think that most people who hate Huttball just hate it because they can. I don't see what the problem with the map is, everyone's on the same field and both sides have the same class availability. Sure, if you get 4 DPS operatives and 4 DPS Powertechs you might not win - but you run the same risk of composition failure in the other WZs.

    It's a map that actively rewards correct use of crowd control and objective based movement. I find this to be an improvement over maps where one person can stand off four while waiting on a respawn pulse.

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  • grouch993grouch993 Registered User regular
    I had a voidstar match last night on my newly leveled and trained Jedi Shadow, level 10. The team was comprised of four sentinels, three shadows and the rotating position where people quit out as fast as possible.

    My shadow topped the scoreboard.

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  • exmelloexmello Registered User regular
    Huttball is the most beautifully designed innovation in MMO gameplay I have experienced in years. I thought maybe I was just spoiled on my sorc, but I have just as much fun on my sniper.

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  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    Finally managed to initiate a successful vote kick in a warzone last night on an AFK level 11 Trooper. No, not Commando or Vanguard, just a Trooper.

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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    I did a Novare Coast a couple weeks ago with a level 25 Smuggler. Yes, level 25 and no AC.

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