am *I* the dummy for trying to go support as viktor, or were my teammates dummies for yelling at me?
Granted, the game didn't ever get played thanks to queue dodgers but still
It can work if you take the stun mod, which turns ganks into genocides. Laser poke is pretty great too.
Its not like he's top tier but I've seen worse and you'll be fine if you're not being dumb.
always take the stun mod
People don't understand how much utility he brings to teamfights, even if his damage isn't that great (when support built)
Stunning an entire team for 1.5 seconds and then silencing them all for another 0.5 makes or breaks teamfights
Also am I wrong if I classify "utility" type characters as supports? Basically if you are good at cc, then you = support
I think that, in the current meta, the more stringent requirement for a support is that they do not need farm to be effective. This is usually truest for characters who have a lot of utility, since utility rarely scales with gold, or when it does, it performs fine with an utter lack of it.
That being said, let's look at support nunu. His only real utility is blood boil. He has a slow, sure, but there are about a million champions with a slow, and they are almost all ranged, so if you just wanted a character with a slow, you could just as easily take support Nasus. However, even with just a philo and some boots, nunu is able to naturally sustain pretty well, he's beefy, and his ult does incredible damage.
Since you have a support nunu, your utility needs to come from somewhere else, and in that case, you can use a champion which requires more farm and has a good kit for it, someone who trades a little bit of damage for a lot of utility. Karma's a pretty good example of a utility mage, or maokai, orianna, etc. Those are people whose abilities get absolutely ridiculous with farm, but their damage is just not as high as your traditional people who would be in those roles (mid usually, or jungle for maokai, in those examples).
Since nunu doesn't need much farm to shore up the damage deficit, you're good to trade some utility onto somewhere else. That's why you might see nunu going bot as support, but victor going mid.
am *I* the dummy for trying to go support as viktor, or were my teammates dummies for yelling at me?
Granted, the game didn't ever get played thanks to queue dodgers but still
It can work if you take the stun mod, which turns ganks into genocides. Laser poke is pretty great too.
Its not like he's top tier but I've seen worse and you'll be fine if you're not being dumb.
always take the stun mod
People don't understand how much utility he brings to teamfights, even if his damage isn't that great (when support built)
Stunning an entire team for 1.5 seconds and then silencing them all for another 0.5 makes or breaks teamfights
Also am I wrong if I classify "utility" type characters as supports? Basically if you are good at cc, then you = support
I think that, in the current meta, the more stringent requirement for a support is that they do not need farm to be effective. This is usually truest for characters who have a lot of utility, since utility rarely scales with gold, or when it does, it performs fine with an utter lack of it.
That being said, let's look at support nunu. His only real utility is blood boil. He has a slow, sure, but there are about a million champions with a slow, and they are almost all ranged, so if you just wanted a character with a slow, you could just as easily take support Nasus. However, even with just a philo and some boots, nunu is able to naturally sustain pretty well, he's beefy, and his ult does incredible damage.
Since you have a support nunu, your utility needs to come from somewhere else, and in that case, you can use a champion which requires more farm and has a good kit for it, someone who trades a little bit of damage for a lot of utility. Karma's a pretty good example of a utility mage, or maokai, orianna, etc. Those are people whose abilities get absolutely ridiculous with farm, but their damage is just not as high as your traditional people who would be in those roles (mid usually, or jungle for maokai, in those examples).
Since nunu doesn't need much farm to shore up the damage deficit, you're good to trade some utility onto somewhere else. That's why you might see nunu going bot as support, but victor going mid.
Nunu also has the highest HP/level in the game making him naturally beefy.
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Alternatively to buffing the mana management on the old champs, they could nerf the mana on newer champs. As it is, mana is just not all that important to build on casters, it tends to get to a point where you can just ignore it. Especially with blue. I think it would be interesting to see how they could make mana a relevant stat, so people actually have to plan in more into their buils.
I think that, in the current meta, the more stringent requirement for a support is that they do not need farm to be effective.
Here's the thing about supports not needing farm; in low-ish ELO, given how many creeps are missed by most players, it's very easy for a 0 cs player to keep up with other players' gold supplies through runes, masteries and kills/assists. I'm at about 1300 ELO, and despite having <30 CS for the first 30 minutes of most games I still tend to have an above-average amount of gold on the results screen.
The consequence of this is that playing a champ who can transition from a pokey "support" at the start of the game to their normal build in late-game seems totally viable. I know it works for champs like Lux (who seems to be getting classed as a regular support more frequently these days), Gangplank, Shen and Orianna; the downsides are that a) your team might wind up missing a few aura items in later team fights, b) even though your overall gold will match the rest of your team, you'll have spent more money on wards, and c) the better other players are at hitting creeps, the greater the gold disparity between them and you.
I think that, in the current meta, the more stringent requirement for a support is that they do not need farm to be effective.
Here's the thing about supports not needing farm; in low-ish ELO, given how many creeps are missed by most players, it's very easy for a 0 cs player to keep up with other players' gold supplies through runes, masteries and kills/assists. I'm at about 1300 ELO, and despite having <30 CS for the first 30 minutes of most games I still tend to have an above-average amount of gold on the results screen.
The consequence of this is that playing a champ who can transition from a pokey "support" at the start of the game to their normal build in late-game seems totally viable. I know it works for champs like Lux (who seems to be getting classed as a regular support more frequently these days), Gangplank, Shen and Orianna; the downsides are that a) your team might wind up missing a few aura items in later team fights, b) even though your overall gold will match the rest of your team, you'll have spent more money on wards, and c) the better other players are at hitting creeps, the greater the gold disparity between them and you.
That is completely true. Gotta play to your level after all. I'm in about the same level as you, which is primarily why my tactic of "run around like a madman with janna on full harassment mode" dominates so hard. If I were 300 elo higher, I think I'd probably be leveling a bit more shield and a bit less zephyr.
But I am terrible at last hitting, so instead of ensuring no gold is lost for my team, I just ensure my carry has the easiest time possible. Two sides of the same coin.
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
I need to train myself to last hit under pressure of harassment. I have this tendency to get bogged down taking pot-shots at the opponent, and miss last hits.
Then I realise about ten minutes in and improve dramatically. Which may have a lot to do with the combination of: higher AD to get last hits, and b) increased ability to use spells to get last hits.
I really need to work on this.
Also, in the last game I played, I went mid versus LeBlanc and didn't die! She still got 4 kills by 20 minutes, though.
I'm chomping at the bit for Varus. I hope they bring him in this week, rather than next week. I don't want the Hecarim patch shenanigans to take away from my Varus time
I seem to be building more and more champions straight damage
jars do straight damage leona it will be awesome
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
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TehSlothHit Or MissI Guess They Never Miss, HuhRegistered Userregular
So, is it worth it at all to pick up a wriggles on phoenix udyr? He's one of the only junglers I've played recently that I don't build one on and it feels kind of weird not having free wards and not being able to solo dragon in less than a year.
I really like him, but I feel weird about not having strong dragon control and having to buy wards.
Riot kinda needs to go through all the older champs and buff their mana regen to be similar to or equal to present champion mana regen. It's sad watching someone like Panth or Trist go oom while Graves and Vayne are rolling around with no worries in the world.
Tristana would be OP with more MP/5. Especially with the recent dorans changes that make burst more effective[less hit points on carries] and have made people buy less dorans in favor of rushing damage items first [making it easier to burst with Tristana]
The only time i have had mana issues as Tristana is when I got a double kill at level 1 on an invade [and so got to use rocket jump 3 times in a row in quick succession, two for kills and one to escape]
What's a good way to ask a jungler for ganks? Every time I try and explain to the jungler: hey my lane is always pushed to my tower, can you please gank? They always get super pissed off that I'm "telling them what to do, stfu noob, why don't you stop losing your lane, etc".
What's a good way to ask a jungler for ganks? Every time I try and explain to the jungler: hey my lane is always pushed to my tower, can you please gank? They always get super pissed off that I'm "telling them what to do, stfu noob, why don't you stop losing your lane, etc".
Ping. "no wards top, easy kill"
If there are wards and he gets spotted "sorry, jungler must have placed them, he didn't leave"
Edit: Ideally do that when he is in the area or on the way to the area.
What's a good way to ask a jungler for ganks? Every time I try and explain to the jungler: hey my lane is always pushed to my tower, can you please gank? They always get super pissed off that I'm "telling them what to do, stfu noob, why don't you stop losing your lane, etc".
My only recommendation is to make sure they aren't busy with something like covering a lane when you ask, as that's the only time I usually get annoyed. Blame the jungler is really common and frustrating so it's easy to immediately get defensive when someone says something, even if they're not just whining. That said, I definitely appreciate a heads up that you are ready to go when it actually looks like a gank could happen, meaning you aren't on their side of the river, preferably it's warded, and if you're a double lane that you are both in the lane.
What's a good way to ask a jungler for ganks? Every time I try and explain to the jungler: hey my lane is always pushed to my tower, can you please gank? They always get super pissed off that I'm "telling them what to do, stfu noob, why don't you stop losing your lane, etc".
If you want a jungle to gank your lane you want to ensure them that gank is going to work. This means tracking where the enemy is warding, your/their summoners status, ults, etc. If my top lane just says "need a gank top jungle" I'm not nearly as motivated compared to them saying "no ward river, my ignite up, their ult down". That statement doesn't even ask for a gank explicitly, but it'll get you one far more often. Also if you just need your lane covered instead of a gank just ask for that. The jungle then knows they will at least get a few creeps and can approach from a quick safe route.
Enigma435 on
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AriviaI Like A ChallengeEarth-1Registered Userregular
What's a good way to ask a jungler for ganks? Every time I try and explain to the jungler: hey my lane is always pushed to my tower, can you please gank? They always get super pissed off that I'm "telling them what to do, stfu noob, why don't you stop losing your lane, etc".
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I think that, in the current meta, the more stringent requirement for a support is that they do not need farm to be effective. This is usually truest for characters who have a lot of utility, since utility rarely scales with gold, or when it does, it performs fine with an utter lack of it.
That being said, let's look at support nunu. His only real utility is blood boil. He has a slow, sure, but there are about a million champions with a slow, and they are almost all ranged, so if you just wanted a character with a slow, you could just as easily take support Nasus. However, even with just a philo and some boots, nunu is able to naturally sustain pretty well, he's beefy, and his ult does incredible damage.
Since you have a support nunu, your utility needs to come from somewhere else, and in that case, you can use a champion which requires more farm and has a good kit for it, someone who trades a little bit of damage for a lot of utility. Karma's a pretty good example of a utility mage, or maokai, orianna, etc. Those are people whose abilities get absolutely ridiculous with farm, but their damage is just not as high as your traditional people who would be in those roles (mid usually, or jungle for maokai, in those examples).
Since nunu doesn't need much farm to shore up the damage deficit, you're good to trade some utility onto somewhere else. That's why you might see nunu going bot as support, but victor going mid.
Nunu also has the highest HP/level in the game making him naturally beefy.
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He don't need to buy no hp. He's already pretty much good to go.
Yes. Just don't expect to play him.
But you don't want to be the leader that can't first pick him for yourself or someone else when he occasionally slips through the bans.
Here's the thing about supports not needing farm; in low-ish ELO, given how many creeps are missed by most players, it's very easy for a 0 cs player to keep up with other players' gold supplies through runes, masteries and kills/assists. I'm at about 1300 ELO, and despite having <30 CS for the first 30 minutes of most games I still tend to have an above-average amount of gold on the results screen.
The consequence of this is that playing a champ who can transition from a pokey "support" at the start of the game to their normal build in late-game seems totally viable. I know it works for champs like Lux (who seems to be getting classed as a regular support more frequently these days), Gangplank, Shen and Orianna; the downsides are that a) your team might wind up missing a few aura items in later team fights, b) even though your overall gold will match the rest of your team, you'll have spent more money on wards, and c) the better other players are at hitting creeps, the greater the gold disparity between them and you.
That is completely true. Gotta play to your level after all. I'm in about the same level as you, which is primarily why my tactic of "run around like a madman with janna on full harassment mode" dominates so hard. If I were 300 elo higher, I think I'd probably be leveling a bit more shield and a bit less zephyr.
But I am terrible at last hitting, so instead of ensuring no gold is lost for my team, I just ensure my carry has the easiest time possible. Two sides of the same coin.
Then I realise about ten minutes in and improve dramatically. Which may have a lot to do with the combination of: higher AD to get last hits, and b) increased ability to use spells to get last hits.
I really need to work on this.
Also, in the last game I played, I went mid versus LeBlanc and didn't die! She still got 4 kills by 20 minutes, though.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
I really like him, but I feel weird about not having strong dragon control and having to buy wards.
What am I, support?
twitch.tv/tehsloth
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
But why do that when you can just chuck barrels for 1/4 of a guy's health?
Like, I've never seen Nasus', that I remember. I wonder what Viktor's is. Or Ryze.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
One grab, one kill.
The only time i have had mana issues as Tristana is when I got a double kill at level 1 on an invade [and so got to use rocket jump 3 times in a row in quick succession, two for kills and one to escape]
edit: That game went predictably
I'm glad I get to play Graves and Ahri again, at least.
"Free kill top!" usually works.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Ping. "no wards top, easy kill"
If there are wards and he gets spotted "sorry, jungler must have placed them, he didn't leave"
Edit: Ideally do that when he is in the area or on the way to the area.
Fixed for truth.
My only recommendation is to make sure they aren't busy with something like covering a lane when you ask, as that's the only time I usually get annoyed. Blame the jungler is really common and frustrating so it's easy to immediately get defensive when someone says something, even if they're not just whining. That said, I definitely appreciate a heads up that you are ready to go when it actually looks like a gank could happen, meaning you aren't on their side of the river, preferably it's warded, and if you're a double lane that you are both in the lane.
twitch.tv/tehsloth
If you want a jungle to gank your lane you want to ensure them that gank is going to work. This means tracking where the enemy is warding, your/their summoners status, ults, etc. If my top lane just says "need a gank top jungle" I'm not nearly as motivated compared to them saying "no ward river, my ignite up, their ult down". That statement doesn't even ask for a gank explicitly, but it'll get you one far more often. Also if you just need your lane covered instead of a gank just ask for that. The jungle then knows they will at least get a few creeps and can approach from a quick safe route.
Take a look at flat cdr blues, then say that to me again with a straight face.