Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[chat]!

18587899091

Posts

  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    Vanguard wrote: »
    There is a difference between systems designed for rollplaying and roleplaying. You can disagree, but you would be wrong.

    D&D, and it's various iterations, are about killing shit in an underground maze. You can give your character motivations, have touching roleplaying moments, etc, but the game is so mired in math and stats that it's hard to ignore it for very long.

    Now, take a game like Burning Wheel. This is a game that does not encourage dungeon crawling. You could still do it, but the focus is on creating characters with motivations, history, and instincts. None of that is worked into the character creation process of D&D.

    That has nothing to do with some invisible "rollplaying/roleplaying" dichotomy.

    Those are two different styles of games, and using one style of rules to play the other style of game is sub-optimal, although probably do-able?

    Point is, the "rollplayer/roleplayer" terminology exists to denigrate people who like games you don't like, and that's the only way it gets used. It's stupid. I don't give a shit that you can say "But some games are more about points and tables, and other games are more about sitting around a table talking!"

    That doesn't matter. It's people acting like uppity dickfucks about who likes what that grinds my gears. For example, the idea that the two things are mutually exclusive and if a person is building a mechanically optimal character for the system and campaign they can't also be good at roleplaying that character can suck ten dicks for nine dollars.

  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    i think i actually graduate a year from now.

    whoa

    steam_sig.png
  • Nova_CNova_C Social Justice Haruspex Beyond The WallRegistered User regular
    Sometimes I'm retarded.

    I was feeling a bit uncomfortably warm this morning and I know that if I turn on the A/C, even a little, one of the women that works here will just turn it off because as long as they're comfortable, everyone else can go fuck themselves. Anyway, I missed breakfast so on my break I went down to get a bagel and I got a mocha while I was in the coffee shop.

    Yeah, a hot drink. Good idea you moron.

    My blog: www.jonathanirons.net
    My Twitter: IronBorealis
    Be advised, I'm not the best at keeping either updated. >.>
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    Eddy wrote: »
    One of my favorite things about Arrested Development is the episode title Motherboy XXX

    sublime

    Many an AD fan have ended up on an FBI watchlist after they googled that particular phrase.

    easybossfight_zps4752c132.gif
  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    d&d doesn't seem 'math heavy' to me. if that's the conception of a too-mathy system, then this doesn't feel like all that nerdy a hobby.

    XMSODhjrer45.gif
  • Form of Monkey!Form of Monkey! Registered User regular
    i think i actually graduate a year from now.

    whoa

  • SparvySparvy Registered User regular
    I like the smell you get just as you open a new beer bottle

    #highfunctioningalcoholic

  • Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    i think i actually graduate a year from now.

    whoa

    I will give no congrats until you graduate. But I am proud of you.

    Unless you are going to be a useless Philosophy major!

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    _J_ wrote: »
    Vanilla ate my awesome post.
    spool32 wrote: »
    BEEP BOOP _J_BOT RP PUNISHMENT MODE ENGAGED

    "OK, I'm rolling a kender"

    I love my Kender.

    He had this awesome ability whereby he could not only pickpocket, but he could also search his own pockets. And we found a chart of items I could search for in my own pockets such as string, mice, etc. But to keep things interesting my friends foolishly added “magic items” to the list.

    So, basically every action I took was searching my own pockets trying to find an awesome magic item.

    DM: The skeletal mages slowly advance towards you, their hands surrounded in deadly flames. What do you do?

    Friend 1: I get into defensive stance and grip my axe.
    Friend 2: I ready my bow.
    Friend 3: I prepare a healing spell.
    _J_: I search my pockets for that magical dagger of skeletal mage killing I swore I had.

    Friend 1, 2, and 3: God damn it.

    Wasn't there a game mechanic wherein an item you tried to equip or find always had some % chance of having been stolen by the kender without you noticing?

  • descdesc P.L.U.R. Registered User regular
    Just clear the fucking auto saved post already, vanilla

    Jesus fucking Christ

  • VanguardVanguard The system was breaking down. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Pony wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    There is a difference between systems designed for rollplaying and roleplaying. You can disagree, but you would be wrong.

    D&D, and it's various iterations, are about killing shit in an underground maze. You can give your character motivations, have touching roleplaying moments, etc, but the game is so mired in math and stats that it's hard to ignore it for very long.

    Now, take a game like Burning Wheel. This is a game that does not encourage dungeon crawling. You could still do it, but the focus is on creating characters with motivations, history, and instincts. None of that is worked into the character creation process of D&D.

    That has nothing to do with some invisible "rollplaying/roleplaying" dichotomy.

    Those are two different styles of games, and using one style of rules to play the other style of game is sub-optimal, although probably do-able?

    Point is, the "rollplayer/roleplayer" terminology exists to denigrate people who like games you don't like, and that's the only way it gets used. It's stupid. I don't give a shit that you can say "But some games are more about points and tables, and other games are more about sitting around a table talking!"

    That doesn't matter. It's people acting like uppity dickfucks about who likes what that grinds my gears. For example, the idea that the two things are mutually exclusive and if a person is building a mechanically optimal character for the system and campaign they can't also be good at roleplaying that character can suck ten dicks for nine dollars.

    I understand the typical application of the terms. I'm not interested in telling people how to play their games. That being said, certain elements of design tend to encourage one style of play over the other. Of course, you can go against the grain, so to speak, and play a RP intensive game using D&D's rules. It is not, however, the optimal system for it.

  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Harrisonburg, VARegistered User regular
    hmm

    the candidate for whom I volunteered in 2009 has a law office, but no website

    I wonder if there's any point asking him for a job, since I seem to recall him having a receptionist and such (and thus not really needing anyone else)

  • MimMim Return of Saturn Registered User regular
    i think i actually graduate a year from now.

    whoa

    I graduate in two weeks barring any massive fuck ups. Enjoy the cushion of a year because those final two weeks are like hell on earth.

    cmwbq1k.png?1FREE HENROID
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    d&d doesn't seem 'math heavy' to me. if that's the conception of a too-mathy system, then this doesn't feel like all that nerdy a hobby.

    Have you played editions prior to 4?

    AD&D, 3, and 3.5 were heavier on math than 4.

    I wouldn't consider them oppressively math-heavy compared to some other systems but they were mathier than 4.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    What is that game theory called, that breaks players down into Explorer, Socializer, Achiever, Killer?

    I actually don't care for that one because it really only works for MMOs and seems to be putting the cart before the horse - in other words, they took the design goals of MMOs and said, "There's a type of player that likes each of these design goals." Well, duh.

    I prefer Wizards' psychographic profiles (Johnny, Timmy, Spike, Lorthos, Melvin). I think they are much more generalizable to other game types.

    Linky to this?

  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    d&d doesn't seem 'math heavy' to me. if that's the conception of a too-mathy system, then this doesn't feel like all that nerdy a hobby.

    gotta keep in mind bro

    D&D came out back in a day when shit like video games didn't exist

    D&D players ain't got shit on MMORPG players nowadays

    google the word "theorycraft" if you want an example

    or of course, the classic MMORPG term: "DPS"

    Damage Per Second

    that's how granular MMO nerds get: they gotta know, to the second, how optimal their damage output is.

    compared to that shit, D&D is kid-time fun adventure

  • mrflippymrflippy Registered User regular
    The gf and I started watching Twin Peaks a couple of nights ago. For some reason I wasn't expecting it to get weird so quickly, but I probably should have been.

  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    Feral wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    What is that game theory called, that breaks players down into Explorer, Socializer, Achiever, Killer?

    I actually don't care for that one because it really only works for MMOs and seems to be putting the cart before the horse - in other words, they took the design goals of MMOs and said, "There's a type of player that likes each of these design goals." Well, duh.

    I prefer Wizards' psychographic profiles (Johnny, Timmy, Spike, Lorthos, Melvin). I think they are much more generalizable to other game types.

    the 4e DMG has a pretty insightful chapter on RPG gamer types (based on Robin Laws' work) and how to cater to them effectively and defuse conflicts that arise. it acknowledges, for instance, the Lurker, the dude or lady who is largely there because their friends are rather than because they want to play D&D, and has some good tips for how to keep them engaged while recognizing that their engagement likely has a ceiling.

    naturally this chapter was angrily called out by many reviewers as being stupid new-school hippie gay bullshit

  • Form of Monkey!Form of Monkey! Registered User regular
    hmm

    the candidate for whom I volunteered in 2009 has a law office, but no website

    I wonder if there's any point asking him for a job, since I seem to recall him having a receptionist and such (and thus not really needing anyone else)

    My young Carrot, you have much to learn. The answer to this question is always yes. Even, if he / she / it is not hiring, they may know somebody who is.

    Good luck!

  • Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    desc wrote: »
    Just clear the fucking auto saved post already, vanilla

    Jesus fucking Christ

    Since I say this in my head every day, I am stealing it for my sig. Gracias.

  • Nova_CNova_C Social Justice Haruspex Beyond The WallRegistered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    naturally this chapter was angrily called out by many reviewers as being stupid new-school hippie gay bullshit

    So basically, the real die-hard fans are idiots who ruin things for casuals.

    Sounds about right. :)

    My blog: www.jonathanirons.net
    My Twitter: IronBorealis
    Be advised, I'm not the best at keeping either updated. >.>
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    I am setting up the grandest experiment. Ending my undergrad career with a bang. Gonna have so many numbers. Hope it works. If it doesn't, no big, but I really hope so.

    39kEWYh.jpg
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    Mim wrote: »
    i think i actually graduate a year from now.

    whoa

    I graduate in two weeks barring any massive fuck ups. Enjoy the cushion of a year because those final two weeks are like hell on earth.

    o_O

    Oh, Mim. You so dramatic.

    easybossfight_zps4752c132.gif
  • MimMim Return of Saturn Registered User regular
    mrflippy wrote: »
    The gf and I started watching Twin Peaks a couple of nights ago. For some reason I wasn't expecting it to get weird so quickly, but I probably should have been.

    It gets weirder.

    cmwbq1k.png?1FREE HENROID
  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    d&d doesn't seem 'math heavy' to me. if that's the conception of a too-mathy system, then this doesn't feel like all that nerdy a hobby.

    You've never sat down and simulated average damage per round.

  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    Well, that's largely because time is the most relevant independent variable in MMOs.

    Everything in an MMO is dependent upon real-time. Your mana regenerates in real-time, your abilities refresh in real-time, enemies change forms in real-time, etc.

    Real-time isn't relevant to PnP RPGs.

    But yeah I agree that MMO theorycrafting tends to be more complicated then PnP theorycrafting.... but on the other hand, I remember sitting down and making probability graphs of common Shadowrun dice rolls so I could get a sense of how the numbers added up.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular


    Did you know: the guy who did the music for Arrested Development also did the music for Northern Exposure.

    jBEKRTH.png
  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    d&d doesn't seem 'math heavy' to me. if that's the conception of a too-mathy system, then this doesn't feel like all that nerdy a hobby.

    You've never sat down and simulated average damage per round.

    no i haven't! it is not really something that any of my friends talk about.

    sometimes when you guys talk about tabletop games it's like you're all ashamed of what you do behind closed doors.

    XMSODhjrer45.gif
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    the 4e DMG has a pretty insightful chapter on RPG gamer types (based on Robin Laws' work) and how to cater to them effectively and defuse conflicts that arise. it acknowledges, for instance, the Lurker, the dude or lady who is largely there because their friends are rather than because they want to play D&D, and has some good tips for how to keep them engaged while recognizing that their engagement likely has a ceiling.

    naturally this chapter was angrily called out by many reviewers as being stupid new-school hippie gay bullshit

    That sounds interesting. I have a copy of the 4e DMG at home. I should read that.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • MimMim Return of Saturn Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Mim wrote: »
    i think i actually graduate a year from now.

    whoa

    I graduate in two weeks barring any massive fuck ups. Enjoy the cushion of a year because those final two weeks are like hell on earth.

    o_O

    Oh, Mim. You so dramatic.

    I'm not dramatic. In my situation, I just have a massive onslaught of work ahead of me while also needing to set up appointments with school counselors and invite people to graduation without pissing people off.

    Adding to the fact that I am increasingly becoming lazier and have been sleeping more than I ought to be because that's my way of escaping stress, it's hell on earth!

    cmwbq1k.png?1FREE HENROID
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    100% of the burning wheel fans I've encountered online have been insufferable dinguses about the game

    less about Burning Wheel itself but more about how "narrativist" games are superior and fuck "rollplayers", and shit

    now, I'm sure there's fans of Burning Wheel that aren't assholes

    but much like the statement "I only hate militant vegetarians", if a person isn't a dipshit about being a fan of Burning Wheel it's unlikely I'll even know they like the game

    when it gets brought up as a positive example of game design it's always by people being fuckheads

    that's been my experience

  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    MMO theorycraft comes mostly from the very fine tuning dungeons in MMOs have.
    If you have a suboptimal build, you may endanger the goal for the entire team.

    Shit, during my hightier WoW days you'd actually play with mods that predicted your latency in order to autocancel the current cast and start the next, to do more damage.

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    @Mim

    I graduate too! I have this terrible anxiety that somehow I am going to fuck it all up and ruin my grad school plans. I don't think I'm anywhere close to that but I feel so terrified.

    39kEWYh.jpg
  • Disco TerrierDisco Terrier Registered User regular
    Oh yaaaay more evaluations -___-

    Just give me my pills so I can stop failing at life, goddammit.

    yGxvf.png
  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    And Pony, some of the fight slowness last night was neophyte characters who were holding back against a group of idiots.

  • MimMim Return of Saturn Registered User regular
    @Mim

    I graduate too! I have this terrible anxiety that somehow I am going to fuck it all up and ruin my grad school plans. I don't think I'm anywhere close to that but I feel so terrified.

    My mom wants me to go to grad school. I will only go if I find something I can really sink my teeth into and not a second before.

    Until then, gotta find a job.

    cmwbq1k.png?1FREE HENROID
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    The magician longs to see...

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
  • MimMim Return of Saturn Registered User regular
    I figured out who the killer was midway through season 1. I am awesomeee.

    cmwbq1k.png?1FREE HENROID
  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    i love calling people dinguses

This discussion has been closed.