So I posted this on Facebook and my Tea Party Uncle jumped in with a link about how the economy in Argentina collapsed due to over-taxation, responded with this, anyone have any thoughts/better links to number/etc.?
I'd be interested to see the link he posted? Because that's not what caused Argentina's previous (or current) financial crisis..
Heck, if anything it was a lack of tax revenue that contributed to the previous crisis.
Uncle *****, looked at your link, I'm assuming you were referring to the part where it said that overtaxing led the economic collapse of Argentina? Thing is, I'm not seeing that being backed up any place else, and I'm actually seeing the opposite more than a few places. Their debt increased drastically because of diminished tax revenue, not overtaxing, combined with austerity measures to fix the debt causing unemployment to skyrocket. It's actually very similar to what's been going on in Greece lately, especially the part about the diminished tax revenues being caused in part by massive tax evasion. Wikipedia has a good overall summary, can pull up a few more sources if you find it unacceptable.
Where did you get that link? It's pretty far down the page if you Google "history of argentina" and it doesn't have any sources and seems factually incorrect in at least that instance.
Critique is welcome, I'm not a fucking expert or anything. I did look a couple other places than Wikipedia just in case something was distorted but all of it seemed to point towards decreased tax revenue, rampant tax evasion, and poorly thought out austerity measures. Honestly have no idea how he found that link, as far as I can tell it's the only one on the internet that paints Argentina in a light that supports his views.
Perhaps he subscribes to the theory that lowering taxes raises tax revenue? In which case, according to that "logic", high taxes caused a lack of tax revenue which hurt the country.
But that makes no sense! Everyone knows that large business owners always do what is morally right for the good of the people and never conduct practices that only provide personably financial security.
Everyone knows that!
What are you? Some kind of communist nazi? Here to steal our gold and give it to the poor?
Robin Hood was a criminal and should be in jail.
Is it wrong that I can use 'morally right' as a double entendre?
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
0
ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
Speaking at a campaign event in New York on Thursday, Vice President Joe Biden attacked Mitt Romney over his foreign policy, and praised President Obama for his handling of foreign relations.
“I promise you, the president has a big stick,” Biden said, “I promise you.”
Biden was citing Theodore Roosevelt’s famous quote, “Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.”
Speaking at a campaign event in New York on Thursday, Vice President Joe Biden attacked Mitt Romney over his foreign policy, and praised President Obama for his handling of foreign relations.
“I promise you, the president has a big stick,” Biden said, “I promise you.”
Biden was citing Theodore Roosevelt’s famous quote, “Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.”
Speaking at a campaign event in New York on Thursday, Vice President Joe Biden attacked Mitt Romney over his foreign policy, and praised President Obama for his handling of foreign relations.
“I promise you, the president has a big stick,” Biden said, “I promise you.”
Biden was citing Theodore Roosevelt’s famous quote, “Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.”
So I posted this on Facebook and my Tea Party Uncle jumped in with a link about how the economy in Argentina collapsed due to over-taxation, responded with this, anyone have any thoughts/better links to number/etc.? It's hard to come up with sources with concrete numbers dating back that far.
Uncle *****, you're absolutely right, and the Boomers that are in office right now are in the process of taking away the last vestiges of the government provided assistance that allowed them to get ahead in their youth.
Here is a link with some discussion about when the UCs initially started charging tuition above and beyond incidental fees. In 1970 this had just started and it cost $320 to attend a year at a UC.
According to this document, back then minimum wage was somewhere between $1.65 and $2.00, if you can find a more concrete number to use by all means, provide it, I used $1.90 to calculate how the buying power of minimum wage was then versus now with this calculator:
So $1.90 in 1970 had approximately the same buying power as $11.37 does today. 2012 California minimum wage is only $8.00.
Using the same calculator, plugging the $320 in to see what the same education should cost according to just the buying power of the dollar today versus then, I get $1,915.52.
BUT a year of education from a UC in 2012 costs a minimum of $28,400 if you aren't living on campus.
Tell me how we're supposed to make those numbers work, as young adults starting out? The reason education was so cheap back then was because of massive government subsidization, and the results of that well educated generation of Boomers were some of the most prosperous years that the United States has ever seen. Now you're advocating pulling the rug out from under us completely after having slashed the education budgets, not even allowing us to have loans that aren't going to cripple us financially for life.
Working 30 hours a week in 1970, a young adult at minimum wage could expect to make $17,737.20 per year, and their educational costs at a UC were $1,915.52 per year.
Working 30 hours a week TODAY, a young adult at minimum wage will make $12,480, and their educational costs at a UC are a minimum of $28,400 dollars per year.
I am sick and tired of this "Fuck you got mine." attitude so many Baby Boomers seem to have picked up. You profited off the same entitlements you are now denying us, if you won't even allow the government to give us LOANS to pay our education how do you expect us to do it with those numbers?
Uncle *****, I really do want to understand you, but you don't want the government to subsidize education because it's an entitlement, you don't want the government to subsidize loans for education so we can afford to pay it off at some point before we retire because it's an entitlement; do you just not want anyone besides wealthy people to be able to afford a college degree because that is what is happening.
Right now I make more than three times minimum wage plus bonuses and I am trying to figure out if going back to school is a good investment with how much the cost of a college degree has risen. (My sister)'s best plan for paying off her degree is indenturing herself as a public servant to get loan forgiveness. I think you're incredibly out of touch if you can't see how much the policies you are advocating are fucking my generation.
TL;DR: In 1970 a college degree from a UC cost 10% of what a young adult working at minimum wage for 30 hours per week would make in a year. Today it costs 220% of that, factoring for decreased buying power of a dollar, also minimum wage in California in 1970 equates to $11.37 today, factoring for decreased buying power, whereas minimum wage today has only climbed to $8/hr.; and my Uncle wants to raise the rates on loans after slashing education because it's an entitlement.
Unless I'm mistaken you've made a pretty serious math error, you say that the minimum wage in 1970 was $11.37 and education was $1915 a year
In one instance you've adjusted for inflation and in another you haven't
override367 on
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
Speaking at a campaign event in New York on Thursday, Vice President Joe Biden attacked Mitt Romney over his foreign policy, and praised President Obama for his handling of foreign relations.
“I promise you, the president has a big stick,” Biden said, “I promise you.”
Biden was citing Theodore Roosevelt’s famous quote, “Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.”
"Flaccid."
EDIT: I'm sorry.
Cause that was what I needed first thing in the morning before my cuppa tea.
Won't pass the Senate, will get Vetoed even if it does. Republicans had to know this was going to happen. Why they want to make themselves look even more out of touch is beyond me.
Senate has passed their own version of the bill, so the two will have to be hashed out. I think it will get to the president's desk based on that.
Countdown to the veto.
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
0
Giggles_FunsworthBlight on DiscourseBay Area SprawlRegistered Userregular
So I posted this on Facebook and my Tea Party Uncle jumped in with a link about how the economy in Argentina collapsed due to over-taxation, responded with this, anyone have any thoughts/better links to number/etc.? It's hard to come up with sources with concrete numbers dating back that far.
Uncle *****, you're absolutely right, and the Boomers that are in office right now are in the process of taking away the last vestiges of the government provided assistance that allowed them to get ahead in their youth.
Here is a link with some discussion about when the UCs initially started charging tuition above and beyond incidental fees. In 1970 this had just started and it cost $320 to attend a year at a UC.
According to this document, back then minimum wage was somewhere between $1.65 and $2.00, if you can find a more concrete number to use by all means, provide it, I used $1.90 to calculate how the buying power of minimum wage was then versus now with this calculator:
So $1.90 in 1970 had approximately the same buying power as $11.37 does today. 2012 California minimum wage is only $8.00.
Using the same calculator, plugging the $320 in to see what the same education should cost according to just the buying power of the dollar today versus then, I get $1,915.52.
BUT a year of education from a UC in 2012 costs a minimum of $28,400 if you aren't living on campus.
Tell me how we're supposed to make those numbers work, as young adults starting out? The reason education was so cheap back then was because of massive government subsidization, and the results of that well educated generation of Boomers were some of the most prosperous years that the United States has ever seen. Now you're advocating pulling the rug out from under us completely after having slashed the education budgets, not even allowing us to have loans that aren't going to cripple us financially for life.
Working 30 hours a week in 1970, a young adult at minimum wage could expect to make $17,737.20 per year, and their educational costs at a UC were $1,915.52 per year.
Working 30 hours a week TODAY, a young adult at minimum wage will make $12,480, and their educational costs at a UC are a minimum of $28,400 dollars per year.
I am sick and tired of this "Fuck you got mine." attitude so many Baby Boomers seem to have picked up. You profited off the same entitlements you are now denying us, if you won't even allow the government to give us LOANS to pay our education how do you expect us to do it with those numbers?
Uncle *****, I really do want to understand you, but you don't want the government to subsidize education because it's an entitlement, you don't want the government to subsidize loans for education so we can afford to pay it off at some point before we retire because it's an entitlement; do you just not want anyone besides wealthy people to be able to afford a college degree because that is what is happening.
Right now I make more than three times minimum wage plus bonuses and I am trying to figure out if going back to school is a good investment with how much the cost of a college degree has risen. (My sister)'s best plan for paying off her degree is indenturing herself as a public servant to get loan forgiveness. I think you're incredibly out of touch if you can't see how much the policies you are advocating are fucking my generation.
TL;DR: In 1970 a college degree from a UC cost 10% of what a young adult working at minimum wage for 30 hours per week would make in a year. Today it costs 220% of that, factoring for decreased buying power of a dollar, also minimum wage in California in 1970 equates to $11.37 today, factoring for decreased buying power, whereas minimum wage today has only climbed to $8/hr.; and my Uncle wants to raise the rates on loans after slashing education because it's an entitlement.
Unless I'm mistaken you've made a pretty serious math error, you say that the minimum wage in 1970 was $11.37 and education was $1915 a year
In one instance you've adjusted for inflation and in another you haven't
Both are adjusted so as to be easily comparable with current numbers. In 1970 money that would have been $1.65-$2.00 and $320 a year. Unless I fucked up? I did this all at like three in the morning and I haven't slept since then either so...
0
Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
Marine who Facebook'd how much he would not follow President Obama's orders has been given the Big Chicken Dinner.
Pubbies apparently now believe in freedom of speech and first amendment rights, even though servicemembers are subject to limited rights. The guy was told four times by a U.S. Attorney to stop, and refused to comply. He is also a 9 year sergeant, to which any marine will tell you speaks more about his character than anything.
Minor clarification , he was given an other than honorable discharge. While the effects of an OTA discharge are usually the same as a Bad Conduct, a BCD can only be given after a conviction by a court martial and an OTA is an administrative punishment.
So I posted this on Facebook and my Tea Party Uncle jumped in with a link about how the economy in Argentina collapsed due to over-taxation
Well, it's always easy to support a position so long as you don't care about accuracy when it comes to the details.
Argentina was left in total ruin by the former military dictatorship; that's not the sort-of mess you can expect to be cleaned-up within just a couple of decades (not without external help, anyway, which was never provided). Domingo Cavallo was able to curtail hyperinflation of Argentinian currency in the early 90s and restore some confidence & trading viability with the country, but the corruption in the government was never weeded-oit and Cavallo's solutions - while extremely good - were not a be-all, end-all medication. The wealthiest industries in Argentina were evading taxes, the country was borrowing heavily from the IMF and the loans were pissed away more or less as soon as they were received (in part because the IMF decided that no oversight was needed for the loans).
By the time the IMF decided to look at De la Rua's books in 1999, the damage was already done. They recommended measures that did not work (slashing spending, hiking taxes, burning people's retirement savings, etc) because the country was in a fatal spiral of unemployment & GDP loss.
It did not collapse because of 'over-taxation'.
With Love and Courage
0
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Minor clarification , he was given an other than honorable discharge. While the effects of an OTA discharge are usually the same as a Bad Conduct, a BCD can only be given after a conviction by a court martial and an OTA is an administrative punishment.
Yeah, but using the phrase "Big Chicken Dinner" is just so fucking awesome.
Although it seems like we military folks need to remain apolitical, at least when we are representing ourselves as soldiers (Being plainclothed at a political rally without identifying yourself isn't representing the military, but the entirety of your Facebook page is), I have to say I am very happy to see these dumbasses get the boot. It's the kind of disorder that has spread like a cancer through the ranks that this sitting President is somehow less deserving of the Oath of Enlistment we all took, and it makes me sick.
Once the lifting of DADT and the testing of women in combat arms took effect, you could see the bigots go nuts. As far as I'm concerned, their separatist nature and exclusionary social exercises went against the very core of what is supposed to be the military at large, and I'll be glad to see them gone (even though I myself will be hitting the dusty trail after my ETS or medical board).
I applaud President Obama of wringing out these divisive elements in the military, and as well as bringing our troops back from Iraq and, soon, Afghanistan.
Captain Marcusnow arrives the hour of actionRegistered Userregular
I'm not sure if this is the right thread (would the presidential election one be better?), but does anyone have any thoughts on the recent student loan bill?
The House has passed their own version of the bill to approve student loan interest staying the same, but takes money from an emergency fund to pay for it. The Democrats' bill uses the closure of a tax loophole to pay for their bill.
Now the Republicans are accusing the Democrats of hating students for not passing their version of the bill.
Minor clarification , he was given an other than honorable discharge. While the effects of an OTA discharge are usually the same as a Bad Conduct, a BCD can only be given after a conviction by a court martial and an OTA is an administrative punishment.
Yeah, but using the phrase "Big Chicken Dinner" is just so fucking awesome.
Although it seems like we military folks need to remain apolitical, at least when we are representing ourselves as soldiers (Being plainclothed at a political rally without identifying yourself isn't representing the military, but the entirety of your Facebook page is)
He's actually entirely free to voice his opinion on Obama's policies on Facebook. I did as much with Bush. It's shit like this:
As an active Marine I say, 'Screw Obama' and I will not follow orders from him.
That gets you kicked out.
Edit: But as a supporter of the Tea Party I am sure he'll be thrilled to enter the free market where he'll have the chance to work for an employer who, should he say disparaging things about and insist he will ignore orders from, won't even bother with the medical check as he's tossed out the front door.
I'm not sure if this is the right thread (would the presidential election one be better?), but does anyone have any thoughts on the recent student loan bill?
The House has passed their own version of the bill to approve student loan interest staying the same, but takes money from an emergency fund to pay for it. The Democrats' bill uses the closure of a tax loophole to pay for their bill.
Now the Republicans are accusing the Democrats of hating students for not passing their version of the bill.
More specifically the GOP takes money from health care (for women, natch).
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
My commander is fully aware that when the GOP says they "support the troops," it means they pray for them. They'll never put their money whre their mouth is.
Marine who Facebook'd how much he would not follow President Obama's orders has been given the Big Chicken Dinner.
Pubbies apparently now believe in freedom of speech and first amendment rights, even though servicemembers are subject to limited rights. The guy was told four times by a U.S. Attorney to stop, and refused to comply. He is also a 9 year sergeant, to which any marine will tell you speaks more about his character than anything.
What does him being a sergeant after 9 years mean? I though lifer sergeants where the backbone of the US Army.
If he was a corporal I would understand it.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
Marine who Facebook'd how much he would not follow President Obama's orders has been given the Big Chicken Dinner.
Pubbies apparently now believe in freedom of speech and first amendment rights, even though servicemembers are subject to limited rights. The guy was told four times by a U.S. Attorney to stop, and refused to comply. He is also a 9 year sergeant, to which any marine will tell you speaks more about his character than anything.
What does him being a sergeant after 9 years mean? I though lifer sergeants where the backbone of the US Army.
If he was a corporal I would understand it.
Barring abnormal circumstances he should at least be staff sergeant by now.
Hell, I screwed up and sat on E-4 for 6 years and will still probably have E-6 at 9 years.
Yeah, being in the military that long and only being a normal sergeant speaks volumes. You have to actually work at being worthless if you cannot make staff sergeant in that time being (barring extenuating circumstances).
But usually the individual is worthless as a soldier.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
What's the highest someone would reasonably reach in that amount of time with little to 'medium' amount of combat?
If they're anything like the Navy E-7 should be entirely feasible. Not necessarily expected, but within the grasp of anyone determined to climb the ranks.
E-6 should occur naturally enough inside that time if a person puts in the minimal effort to rise of the lazy and short termers.
I don't know what his mos is, but in some fields promotion is far more tightly controlled, like the infantry, than most of the Marines. When I made corporal the same promotion for for grunts required essentially an extra two years time in grade. So it's not inconceivable that he was only a sergeant after 9 years with out an NJP, but he would have had to have such continued shitty pft, rifle, and fit rep score that it would fall under unusual circumstances. There's also the possibility that he was selected for staff sergeant, but was at the bottom of the list and wouldn't have been promoted until early fall, right before they make the next years selections.
Posts
Yeah my bad: http://www.historyofnations.net/southamerica/argentina.html
I addressed that too after I expelled my initial rage at his support for gouging students with higher interest rates.
Critique is welcome, I'm not a fucking expert or anything. I did look a couple other places than Wikipedia just in case something was distorted but all of it seemed to point towards decreased tax revenue, rampant tax evasion, and poorly thought out austerity measures. Honestly have no idea how he found that link, as far as I can tell it's the only one on the internet that paints Argentina in a light that supports his views.
It's "sources" are a series of referrer links to Amazon listings for books about Evita.
whoops.jpg
Everyone knows that!
What are you? Some kind of communist nazi? Here to steal our gold and give it to the poor?
Robin Hood was a criminal and should be in jail.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/biden-obama-has-big-stick
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
"Flaccid."
EDIT: I'm sorry.
Good to know our president is a show-er.
Unless I'm mistaken you've made a pretty serious math error, you say that the minimum wage in 1970 was $11.37 and education was $1915 a year
In one instance you've adjusted for inflation and in another you haven't
Cause that was what I needed first thing in the morning before my cuppa tea.
I both hate and love all of you right now.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Senate has passed their own version of the bill, so the two will have to be hashed out. I think it will get to the president's desk based on that.
Countdown to the veto.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Both are adjusted so as to be easily comparable with current numbers. In 1970 money that would have been $1.65-$2.00 and $320 a year. Unless I fucked up? I did this all at like three in the morning and I haven't slept since then either so...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/27/1086975/-Obama-cracks-down-on-fraudulent-for-profit-college-recruiting-of-veterans
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
People using their GI Bill to take classes from For-Profit schools drive me insane.
No, people taking classing from For-Profit schools drive me insane.
No, For-Profit schools drive me insane.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
Fuck military jackals.
Assholes like that prey on young soldiers all the time and it pisses me off to know end.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Minor clarification , he was given an other than honorable discharge. While the effects of an OTA discharge are usually the same as a Bad Conduct, a BCD can only be given after a conviction by a court martial and an OTA is an administrative punishment.
Well, it's always easy to support a position so long as you don't care about accuracy when it comes to the details.
Argentina was left in total ruin by the former military dictatorship; that's not the sort-of mess you can expect to be cleaned-up within just a couple of decades (not without external help, anyway, which was never provided). Domingo Cavallo was able to curtail hyperinflation of Argentinian currency in the early 90s and restore some confidence & trading viability with the country, but the corruption in the government was never weeded-oit and Cavallo's solutions - while extremely good - were not a be-all, end-all medication. The wealthiest industries in Argentina were evading taxes, the country was borrowing heavily from the IMF and the loans were pissed away more or less as soon as they were received (in part because the IMF decided that no oversight was needed for the loans).
By the time the IMF decided to look at De la Rua's books in 1999, the damage was already done. They recommended measures that did not work (slashing spending, hiking taxes, burning people's retirement savings, etc) because the country was in a fatal spiral of unemployment & GDP loss.
It did not collapse because of 'over-taxation'.
Yeah, but using the phrase "Big Chicken Dinner" is just so fucking awesome.
Although it seems like we military folks need to remain apolitical, at least when we are representing ourselves as soldiers (Being plainclothed at a political rally without identifying yourself isn't representing the military, but the entirety of your Facebook page is), I have to say I am very happy to see these dumbasses get the boot. It's the kind of disorder that has spread like a cancer through the ranks that this sitting President is somehow less deserving of the Oath of Enlistment we all took, and it makes me sick.
Once the lifting of DADT and the testing of women in combat arms took effect, you could see the bigots go nuts. As far as I'm concerned, their separatist nature and exclusionary social exercises went against the very core of what is supposed to be the military at large, and I'll be glad to see them gone (even though I myself will be hitting the dusty trail after my ETS or medical board).
I applaud President Obama of wringing out these divisive elements in the military, and as well as bringing our troops back from Iraq and, soon, Afghanistan.
The House has passed their own version of the bill to approve student loan interest staying the same, but takes money from an emergency fund to pay for it. The Democrats' bill uses the closure of a tax loophole to pay for their bill.
Now the Republicans are accusing the Democrats of hating students for not passing their version of the bill.
He's actually entirely free to voice his opinion on Obama's policies on Facebook. I did as much with Bush. It's shit like this:
That gets you kicked out.
Edit: But as a supporter of the Tea Party I am sure he'll be thrilled to enter the free market where he'll have the chance to work for an employer who, should he say disparaging things about and insist he will ignore orders from, won't even bother with the medical check as he's tossed out the front door.
More specifically the GOP takes money from health care (for women, natch).
My commander is fully aware that when the GOP says they "support the troops," it means they pray for them. They'll never put their money whre their mouth is.
What does him being a sergeant after 9 years mean? I though lifer sergeants where the backbone of the US Army.
If he was a corporal I would understand it.
Barring abnormal circumstances he should at least be staff sergeant by now.
Hell, I screwed up and sat on E-4 for 6 years and will still probably have E-6 at 9 years.
But usually the individual is worthless as a soldier.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
But screwing up once is way more understandable than just 9 years of, at best, mediocrity.
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If they're anything like the Navy E-7 should be entirely feasible. Not necessarily expected, but within the grasp of anyone determined to climb the ranks.
E-6 should occur naturally enough inside that time if a person puts in the minimal effort to rise of the lazy and short termers.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass