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Posts

  • The Good Doctor TranThe Good Doctor Tran Registered User regular
    Firematic. wrote: »
    Colored wood planks in the latest snapshot!
    Also, could someone explain entity collision to me? I had hoped it might be sheep related but I have been lied to before.

    Entity collision is whenever any entity (mobs, projectiles, vehicles, players, gravity blocks in motion) impacts another entity.

    LoL & Spiral Knights & MC & SMNC: Carrington - Origin: CarringtonPlus - Steam: skdrtran
  • Firematic.Firematic. Registered User regular
    okay, cool. I wasn't sure if it was specific to only mobs or players. Still doesn't look like it will help my sheeps though.

  • SeriouslySeriously Registered User regular
    Well!

    you can write books now


    but it doesn't looks like bookshelves have been made into specialized chests just for books like I would have expected

    maybe that's up next

    3DS: 2337-4267-8661
  • AeytherAeyther Registered User regular
    This is literally me: i.imgur.com/GXAkc.jpg

    Steam | Bukkit Fishing Plugin | 3DS: 2406-5131-9006
  • TheExAmTheExAm Gerrymandered your districts Registered User regular
    Aeyther wrote: »
    This is literally me: i.imgur.com/GXAkc.jpg

    I have learned to hate the utter randomness of enchanting. The other day I enchanted a diamond sword after spending a couple hours grinding EXP at night. It gave me Knockback II. Just that. Knockback II. Great. The only enchantment that makes fighting monsters harder.

    6Jx6HOg.png
    BF3/PS2/MWO/Hawken: CabbageOfDiscord | Minecraft: BrotherCabbage
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Seriously, why'd you summon me? Registered User regular
    preeeeetty much

    BahamutZeroBanner.jpg
  • Duke 2.0Duke 2.0 Registered User regular
    Enchanting is so much better when you just don't give a shit, notice you have like 20 levels saved, and get a small boost for basically doing nothing.

    Seems grinders do nothing but cause frustration.

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Seriously, why'd you summon me? Registered User regular
    preeeeeeeetty much

    BahamutZeroBanner.jpg
  • dargondarkfiredargondarkfire Registered User regular
    didn't they say they were going to make enchanting less random?

  • eldercoreeldercore Registered User regular
    Mayabird wrote: »
    I like your loop idea and encourage it. Just please make sure not to damage the NPC village in the desert (on the yellow line). I walled and torched it up so the villagers wouldn't get zombie apocalypsed as has happened in other villages.

    yea, the idea was to have a stop/station for the npc village.
    either right outside of town or right inside the town walls (the rail line is elevated).

  • Duke 2.0Duke 2.0 Registered User regular
    Seriously wrote: »
    Well!

    you can write books now

    There has not been nearly enough cheering for this.

  • JpsCrazyJpsCrazy Registered User regular
    Duke 2.0 wrote: »
    Enchanting is so much better when you just don't give a shit, notice you have like 20 levels saved, and get a small boost for basically doing nothing.

    Seems grinders do nothing but cause frustration.

    It's really nice when you're me and die every 20 minutes and just decide to use up your three levels before you off yourself...
    Spoiler:
    Duke 2.0 wrote: »
    Seriously wrote: »
    Well!

    you can write books now

    There has not been nearly enough cheering for this.

    I'm still waiting for better maps personally... They sounded like they were actually going to do something with them.

  • TheExAmTheExAm Gerrymandered your districts Registered User regular
    KNOCKBACK II. AGAIN.

    6Jx6HOg.png
    BF3/PS2/MWO/Hawken: CabbageOfDiscord | Minecraft: BrotherCabbage
  • The Good Doctor TranThe Good Doctor Tran Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    admin hat off, opinion hat on:

    Enchanting is the most bullshit, cludgy, ridiculously bad system in minecraft. It would not be so fucking irritating if they hadn't rebalanced mobs to account for enchanted weapons, but they did, so that ship has sailed. As a server operator (I know I took that hat off, bear with me) it's even more deeply annoying because they are continually increasing the load each discrete mob is putting on the server by 'improving' its behavioral code. However, the only reasonable way for players to play the game Mojang has offered them is via grinders - believe me, I have absolutely no desire to see grinders go away without a replacement because, quite frankly, the exp system is bullshit along with enchanting. It's just that, in 1.2.4, we lose around 2-3 ticks for every 100 mobs spawned (actually, we tend to lose more than that because grinders force them into small areas that the AI wasn't designed to deal with on a constant basis and nevermind). It takes something like 1100 mobs to reach level 50, if I recall correctly.

    It does not help that bukkit, effectively, does not support enchanting. Oh, you can definitely edit the entity data of an object, or overwrite it so that its data ID corresponds to an enchanted value, but you can't say 'here, players, here is an easier system that does not necessitate grinders, because we've reduced the level requirement for all enchantments across the board'. There is literally no way for me to fix this without a) providing an artificial means of just getting exp, or b) completely destroying the existing enchantment system and adding something like a /enchantmything command that obviates the need for enchanting tables. This is deeply frustrating.

    I should add as an aside here that the above is not, strictly, Bukkit's fault. The enchanting interface is deeply interwoven into the client in ways that are not good. It actually might be impossible for Bukkit to fix the issue, as things stand now, so let's give Bukkit a pass on that. Although they work for Mojang now too, so really they get no pass. Plus they have development habits that are akin to what you would find in a city zoo, which makes being a plugin developer with them not easy.

    Anyway, sidetracked. The point is the enchanting is bullshit and should be completely reworked. Leveling should not be a requisite component of being able to play the game as originally designed - players should be rewarded for putting time in, not penalized for being new to the server. Doing things in the reverse is a mark of a particularly poor mind.


    The Good Doctor Tran on
    LoL & Spiral Knights & MC & SMNC: Carrington - Origin: CarringtonPlus - Steam: skdrtran
  • dargondarkfiredargondarkfire Registered User regular
    instead of levels, they could have replaced it with items, you want fire nockback and item endurance on your sword? put some blaze rods, a piston, and obsidian into the enchanting table with your diamond sword, there fire nockback long lasting sword!

  • TheExAmTheExAm Gerrymandered your districts Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Well, after half a day's grinding (i was bored) i finally managed to get a Sharpness II and a Sharpness II/Knockback I sword. I spent 8 fewer levels on the latter. Bullshit.

    Yes, there absolutely should be a way to influence the kind of enchantment you get. At the very least, show what the goddamn enchantment is when it's on the table, rather than that goddamn gibberish script.

    TheExAm on
    6Jx6HOg.png
    BF3/PS2/MWO/Hawken: CabbageOfDiscord | Minecraft: BrotherCabbage
  • The Good Doctor TranThe Good Doctor Tran Registered User regular
    TheExAm wrote: »
    Well, after half a day's grinding (i was bored) i finally managed to get a Sharpness II and a Sharpness II/Knockback I sword. I spent 8 fewer levels on the latter. Bullshit.

    Yes, there absolutely should be a way to influence the kind of enchantment you get. At the very least, show what the goddamn enchantment is when it's on the table, rather than that goddamn gibberish script.

    What's awesome is that the gibberish script is absolutely random. It has no bearing whatsoever on what you get. Because why not add completely meaningless aesthetic choices into a game about creation?

    LoL & Spiral Knights & MC & SMNC: Carrington - Origin: CarringtonPlus - Steam: skdrtran
  • TheExAmTheExAm Gerrymandered your districts Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Yep, I know that. Totally random, and it's like it teases you about it. "Look at all those levels you're investing into this, and you could get knockback II. You're adorable".

    TheExAm on
    6Jx6HOg.png
    BF3/PS2/MWO/Hawken: CabbageOfDiscord | Minecraft: BrotherCabbage
  • Firematic.Firematic. Registered User regular
    while slightly not the point, knockback is super handy for invasions and the asshole fire slimes that comes with them.
    However, 50 levels worth it? definitely not. I got flame aspect 2 last week on my lvl 50 which is pretty much crap afaik. I havent gotten the hour+ stretches of clicking to get a lvl 50 to pop up on the enchanting screen since I think they fixed the distribution, but the probabilities for absolute shit enchants on higher level items is still way too high.
    But the "have GM's enchant your items for a cost" thing didn't seem to work out either, so barring what dr tran/carr said with an overall reduction of xp to enchant(which yeah, would be totally awesome to be able to modify), I'm not sure what would be a good solution, outside of the current "occasionally throwing sweet enchanted items at people during invasions"

  • GumpyGumpy There is always a greater powerRegistered User regular
    We can write books

    We can write books!

    I'm going to be a famous author

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  • FiskavFiskav Registered User regular
    Gumpy wrote: »
    We can write books

    We can write books!

    I'm going to be a famous author

    So exciting!

    The death of Bookworm a new feature!

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  • Cathode Ray TubeCathode Ray Tube Registered User regular
    Fiskav wrote: »
    The death of Bookworm a new feature!

    One less mod we have to wait for before updating the server!

  • ultimakayultimakay Registered User regular
    Fiskav wrote: »
    The death of Bookworm a new feature!

    One less mod we have to wait for before updating the server!

    Yup, although when we do switch over we likely wont be able to retain any of the current books. What we can do however is give people their book files off the server so they can copy and paste them back in.

    hLeTR.png
  • jackaljackal Registered User regular
    It sucks that minecraft only gives exp for killing mobs. I spend almost all of my xp on picks, so I have to do combat to improve my digging. It also sucks that when you spend x levels you get the benefit of the bottom x levels but the cost of the potentially much more expensive top x levels so there's no real choice besides spending all of your xp at once. It sucks having to spend several minutes clicking to get the right level. It just sucks. They shouldn't even try fixing it. They should rip it out and replace it with something not terrible.

  • SopaSopa Yes I am a dinosaur, and yes I play videogames. Registered User regular
    ultimakay wrote: »
    Fiskav wrote: »
    The death of Bookworm a new feature!

    One less mod we have to wait for before updating the server!

    Yup, although when we do switch over we likely wont be able to retain any of the current books. What we can do however is give people their book files off the server so they can copy and paste them back in.
    Thanks, I'd really appreciate it!

    jrrClpr.gif
  • Firematic.Firematic. Registered User regular
    So, I've been trying to work out a good route for the Iceland road (name TBD). Since going straight out from where the woolhalla station is doesn't go anywhere near any of the current houses, I am thinking about making a path through the existing areas and then making the turn new-east/old-north to go straight to Frostheim.
    H2K9T.png

    The red line overlays some netherrack markers I set on fire on the ground so those of you close to the road can see where it would run in-game. I'm not sure on who's plot is who's on this so if you guys could post/pm me with what you think, that would be awesome.

  • Duke 2.0Duke 2.0 Registered User regular
    However, the only reasonable way for players to play the game Mojang has offered them is via grinders

    Eh

    Even with more health mobs are not much a problem. And with new pathing stuff they'll behave differently from the braindead "Follow player 'till in range, circle player and use attack) formula which made them simple to deal with. I don't see why I deserve to ever reach level 50.

    I do agree that enchanting is too random and the whole thing should be reworked to use more of those cool symbols and less grinded stuff. I just feel the common reasoning for why the system is bad takes the wrong attitude.
    players should be rewarded for putting time in, not penalized for being new to the server.

    There is literally no difference between these.

  • The Good Doctor TranThe Good Doctor Tran Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Duke 2.0 wrote: »
    players should be rewarded for putting time in, not penalized for being new to the server.

    There is literally no difference between these.

    Bull there isn't any difference. Let's say for the moment that we're okay with MC being a rogue-like. That ridiculous point granted, balancing basic game interactions such that a new player is capable of handling the content they are going to face with the same effort as an advanced player would use facing elite content is the basic premise of design for these games. The reward for time is seeing new things. The issue is there is no elite content. There's no attempt at scaling. The game is mathematically rebalanced around the idea that you will repeatedly hit 50 and get better gear from doing so. Whether or not you feel that you 'deserve' to isn't relevant.

    The Good Doctor Tran on
    LoL & Spiral Knights & MC & SMNC: Carrington - Origin: CarringtonPlus - Steam: skdrtran
  • Duke 2.0Duke 2.0 Registered User regular
    You'll want to expand upon that, I'm not really understanding what you are trying to get across here. I don't clearly see the evidence that the game is designed around players hitting 50 several times when I never touch enchanting and do fine in the harder than average invasion situations we are presented with.

  • The Good Doctor TranThe Good Doctor Tran Registered User regular
    Duke 2.0 wrote: »
    You'll want to expand upon that, I'm not really understanding what you are trying to get across here. I don't clearly see the evidence that the game is designed around players hitting 50 several times when I never touch enchanting and do fine in the harder than average invasion situations we are presented with.

    Well, okay, let's first step back and acknowledge that invasions are probably not the intended gameplay experience from Mojang. Hell, I'm not sure we can say what the intended gameplay experience is and I'm not sure the design team has settled on it. But there was, for a period of several patches, the notion that minecraft was going to become more like a roguelike with the introduction of hunger and experience. Enchanting is the only reward structure in place for experience so we'll have to go with that. The presence of hardcore mode further reinforces the idea that this is supposed to be a game in which death is a major setback.

    From that point you can take two angles at the issue. The first is to assume that, despite the fact that Notch himself stated he wants MC to be played as a roguelike, he failed to create such an experience to a sufficient degree that it doesn't matter. This is how I feel about the game taken in aggregate. I am not making the assertion that exp or enchanting has somehow ruined minecraft but rather that the exp and enchanting subsystems are badly implemented attempts to make the game something it isn't and which fail at their intended duties.

    This leads us to the second angle: the subsystems fail because the roguelike game that was inserted into minecraft is badly designed. In a standard roguelike progression is something like this:

    1) You kill monsters to get better stuff.
    2) Monsters become easier to kill as you get better stuff.
    3) You reach a new area where monsters are no longer easier to kill with your new stuff.
    4) You get newer, better stuff.
    5) Maybe there is a boss and the game ends.

    So in the case of a more traditional roguelike, a new player is faced with roughly the same difficulty as an advanced player, because gear scales to enable them to deal with harder challenges. In minecraft, progression looks like this:

    1) You kill monsters to get better stuff.
    2) Your better stuff restores monsters to the original difficulty of the game.
    3) You keep killing monsters to get even better stuff.
    4) Monsters become trivial.
    5) Sometimes stuff wears out so you replace it.
    6) A dragon?

    The progression isn't interesting, it's just tedious, and deadends in a way that makes it absolutely clear that the designer didn't think things through. Yes, obviously the game can be played in a way that completely ignores enchanting and the fruits it brings, but that doesn't change the fact that the system is bad. Regardless of whether or not you find monsters substantively more difficult now as opposed to prior to the changes, they were altered and re-balanced around the bad system, rather than fixing or removing the bad system itself. This is how bad design creep infects a project, and I'm thankful we haven't seen more of it here. You start with a single bad subsystem and justify further changes to the rest of the game in order to ameliorate the impact of the bad subsystem.

    Anyway, hopefully that's clearer. All of this also ignores the technical challenges of attempting to operate a server with things of this nature, but I laid all of that out before.

    LoL & Spiral Knights & MC & SMNC: Carrington - Origin: CarringtonPlus - Steam: skdrtran
  • eldercoreeldercore Registered User regular
    i am pretty sure the point to Minecraft is:

    1) mine to collect stuff
    2) use stuff to build cool shit
    3) everything else is extra...

  • HaleskarthHaleskarth Registered User regular
    Ya, it's a shitty system.

    I can't complain though. I have a lot of enchanted stuff, including full sets of armor, and I abuse that fact when slaying invasions. I dislike that the base "enchantless" state is fucking deadly and sucks, but I also like that after a sufficient amount of work and trading I feel a lot more badass and get to utilize some neat stuff and fight hordes. Grinders suck though. I hate trying to get good quantities of gunpowder and arrows more than I hate enchants.

  • Duke 2.0Duke 2.0 Registered User regular
    Anyway, hopefully that's clearer.

    It does yeah. It helps me understand the worry over such a system, but I still hold hope that it can be messed with enough to make it interesting. If more of the game was messed with to accommodate the system as it is I would probably be with you on this. And I never had to mess with behind the scenes technical things, which I know to be several bags of dicks. That would probably also have me more zealous than you in this issue.

    I'll note that Notch may have had a different idea of what he meant when he described his ideal gameplay experience of being like a Roguelike. It's a pretty diverse mixed bag of concepts that could just be taken as "Everything is deadly if you are stupid, watch your step, because you'll lose everything." It is a goal he has not achieved, but hopefully Jeb will get things working to a smooth state.

  • The Good Doctor TranThe Good Doctor Tran Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Duke 2.0 wrote: »
    Anyway, hopefully that's clearer.

    It does yeah. It helps me understand the worry over such a system, but I still hold hope that it can be messed with enough to make it interesting. If more of the game was messed with to accommodate the system as it is I would probably be with you on this. And I never had to mess with behind the scenes technical things, which I know to be several bags of dicks. That would probably also have me more zealous than you in this issue.

    I'll note that Notch may have had a different idea of what he meant when he described his ideal gameplay experience of being like a Roguelike. It's a pretty diverse mixed bag of concepts that could just be taken as "Everything is deadly if you are stupid, watch your step, because you'll lose everything." It is a goal he has not achieved, but hopefully Jeb will get things working to a smooth state.

    Yea, as we've been discussing this I've realized that the biggest issue I have is ultimately that the system is so damn hard to mod in the context of a server. I know I could design something better, I am willing to do it, and I'm not being provided the option.

    The Good Doctor Tran on
    LoL & Spiral Knights & MC & SMNC: Carrington - Origin: CarringtonPlus - Steam: skdrtran
  • BekerBeker SeattleRegistered User regular
    Minecraft Marathon is hosting a Skirmish tomorrow Saturday 4/28 at noon pacific. We'd love you to tune in on twitch.tv/minecraftmarathon or follow us at @mc_marathon for more infos. Our 4 teams will be battling it out in our usual set of games (Spleef, Thunderdome, Where's the Beef, Iron Man Race) and we will be introducing a new game called Bomberman. I have a feeling it might become a new favorite.

  • Romanian My EscutcheonRomanian My Escutcheon Two of Forks Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    @Firematic. The square building that's not finished is a mansion I'm working on right now.

    I'm planning on expanding it later, but not towards the road, so that's fine with me.

    Romanian My Escutcheon on
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  • nukanuka What are circles? Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    WOAH-OH, SPAGETTIOS

    The minecraft server is down and I don't know why. I get an error when I attempt to start it. It will be looked at later this morning once the east-coast admins wake up, this flies over my head.
    I can't look at the logs either, it's strange.

    If someone could come forward and tell me if you were online when it went "down" and tell us what happened that would be greatly appreciated. (You're not likely to get banned unless you literally caused the server to combust or you're some l33t 12-year-old hacker, but if you are a l33t 12-year-old hacker we'd appreciate it if you'd come forward and fight for good next year. Cookies may be used as payment. Ask your mom. Cause you're 12.)


    Nevermind. We still want hackers, but no 12-year-olds need apply.

    nuka on
    DS: 2667 5365 3193 | 2DS: 2852-8590-3716
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  • JunpeiJunpei Registered User regular
    'Momentarily lag' : b

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  • MayabirdMayabird Being held down by the hu-ManRegistered User regular
    FRONTIER ROAD IS DONE.

    After several months, untold amounts of supply thefts donations, and help from CRT and Pooka, it has finally reached the terminus point at whatever we're going to call the ocean to the far north.

    The rail is not done yet but I hope to have that set up soon. Just wanted to announce this.

  • eldercoreeldercore Registered User regular
    Mayabird wrote: »
    FRONTIER ROAD IS DONE.

    After several months, untold amounts of supply thefts donations, and help from CRT and Pooka, it has finally reached the terminus point at whatever we're going to call the ocean to the far north.

    The rail is not done yet but I hope to have that set up soon. Just wanted to announce this.

    maybe build a harbor outpost there?

This discussion has been closed.