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[A Song of Ice and Fire, Books and Books+Show] Touch this thread and all shall be spoilt

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Posts

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Invisible wrote: »
    Most likely they've just combined Margery and the Queen of Thorns into one character.

    I seriously doubt it. The QOT didn't appear until book 3 anyway. You expect an old lady to be tramping through the mud in Renly's camping trip, do you? Since she just swans in, is cool, and swans out again, she'd be a nice two-episode role for a famous older character actress (not Maggie Smith please, too typecast.)

  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    When Sansa warns Margery of Hoff's sadistic nature, Margie thanks her and dismisses it. That scene sold me on Margery as being plenty involved in the Game. Especially if it was meant to imply that she knew
    Spoiler:

    I now have a terrifying mental image of The Hoff dressed as Joffery. Thank you.

  • InvisibleInvisible Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I'd love to see the Queen of Thorns, but I don't think we will. They're minimizing characters and events as it is and there isn't a lot she can add that show-Margery can't.

    Though, let's start a petition to get Betty White as the Queen of Thorns. I don't care how little sense it makes.

    Invisible on
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  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    Invisible wrote: »
    I'd love to see the Queen of Thorns, but I don't think we will. They're minimizing characters and events as it is and there isn't a lot she can add that show-Margery can't.

    Though, let's start a petition to get Betty White as the Queen of Thorns. I don't care how little sense it makes.

    I was thinking Judi Dench, but I think she's too tall.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Tamin wrote: »
    Invisible wrote: »
    I'd love to see the Queen of Thorns, but I don't think we will. They're minimizing characters and events as it is and there isn't a lot she can add that show-Margery can't.

    Though, let's start a petition to get Betty White as the Queen of Thorns. I don't care how little sense it makes.

    I was thinking Judi Dench, but I think she's too tall.

    Judi Dench is tiny. Check out whenever she's allowed out from behind the desk in one of the recent Bond movies, for example. Craig/Brosnan both have like a foot on her.

    enlightenedbum on
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    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Wow, google agrees: she's 5' 1". So, she's even more perfect.

    Tamin on
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Invisible wrote: »
    I'd love to see the Queen of Thorns, but I don't think we will. They're minimizing characters and events as it is and there isn't a lot she can add that show-Margery can't.

    They've got 2 seasons for that book. They won't need to cut so much as this season. What she adds is a female character with agency not based on sex appeal, which they need to balance out the general misogyny of the setting.

  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I dont want anything spoiled, but im working through book 3 right now. Has season 2 of the show had any early season 3 parts so far?

    For instance, in season 1
    Spoiler:

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  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    Invisible wrote: »
    I'd love to see the Queen of Thorns, but I don't think we will. They're minimizing characters and events as it is and there isn't a lot she can add that show-Margery can't.

    They've got 2 seasons for that book. They won't need to cut so much as this season. What she adds is a female character with agency not based on sex appeal, which they need to balance out the general misogyny of the setting.

    I agree. Plus her primary plot role is something that I don't think could be shifted to Marg and can't think of anyone else who could do it, either.

    I don't expect to see her in Season 3, but with the number of dropouts if 3 ends where we think it will there should be room in Season 4 :).

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  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    I dont want anything spoiled, but im working through book 3 right now. Has season 2 of the show had any early season 3 parts so far?

    For instance, in season 1
    Spoiler:

    I don't believe so, but the producers are on-record as saying that (going forward) each season is more an adaptation of A Song Of Ice and Fire, and less adapting an individual book. So, proceed cautiously.

  • Katsuhiro 1139Katsuhiro 1139 Dublin, IrelandRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I think the QOT will need to be a separate character, firstly on the point raised by CelestialBadger (which was excellent), and because it's a defining moment for both Sansa and the Tyrells as a family. For one thing, it gives Sansa a ray of sunlight, however misguided, and for two it shows that the entire Tyrell crown is angling for power, from Mace right down to Maergery.

    Edit: on the Dame Judi Dench point, it's worth noting that Daniel Craig in the scene referred to above isn't the tallest actor ever, so her height is even more perfect - not to mention her superb screen presence.

    Katsuhiro 1139 on
  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    So, just a thought exercise.

    You are the king (or queen). You may choose from all of time and space (i.e. any fictional character) to fill out your Kingsguard/Queensguard. The rules:
      [1] They become humans without supernatural gifts. They can be freakishly strong for a human, but they cannot be truly superhuman in any category. Ser Bruce of the Banner can be stronger than Gregor, but he can't be anywhere near as strong as the Hulk.
      [2] They are treated as having been born and raised in their new environs, but still retain any martial training, translated where necessary to work with medieval tech. If you pick Rainbow Dash, for example, there will be no culture shock going from Equestria to Westeros, and she will know how to use her hands to work sword and shield with at least minimal competence. However, they also are recognizably themselves, with their own personalities. Ser Screamer of Starfall will probably try to assassinate you the second you turn your back to him and declare himself king.
      [3] Any special or unique possessions are superior to normal equipment of its type, but only as far as the ASoIaF setting allows, and only so long as the Kingsguard allows. So, for example, a lightsaber would probably be a Valyrian steel sword or similar. Owning a spaceship, though, doesn't translate well at all, and would probably count as owning some sort of fortress (and thereby the land on it) in any case.
      [4] The only exception to the supernatural limitation above is minor mystical gifts. A werewolf in another setting could be a warg in this one, for example.
      [5] As implied above, you can pick women; regardless of any racial or cultural considerations, for purposes of this game you are a knight and you can make a knight, and you rule the Seven Kingdoms and can pick your own bodyguards. As also implied above, this overrides religious questions, so long as it can be adapted to fit the setting. Do you have a martial priest of Kossuth the fire god? Rh'llor welcomes you to Westeros.
      [6] If the character has a long, detailed existence from youth to old age, or multiple versions across multiple media, pick the age or version you use. Adam West? George Clooney? Val Kilmer? Christian Bale? Who shall Ser Bruce Wainwright the Bat-Man exemplify?
      [7] One person per setting, or all seven from a single setting. One Jedi, or seven, not two.

    Shadowen on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    That has too many qualifiers to really make a difference who you pick, not to mention it kind of kills the fun. You'll have random people who were good at fighting and that's that. Someone feel free to prove me wrong!

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Hmm, maybe.

    A Jedi without the Force isn't terribly interesting. But, some of his Force-related powers - visions, a "spider-sense", persuasion - are applicable to a world like Westeros. Bran, Jojen, the Greenseers, the Ghost of High Heart, Melisandre (and other followers) and others all have visions and prophetic musings. The spider-sense becomes absurdly good reflexes. And being naturally persuasive is doable.

    edit: Owning a spaceship, depending on the sort of spaceship you're thinking of, would be closer to having a ship or fleet of ships. And a space station would translate as an island fortress.

    Tamin on
  • DarianDarian Registered User regular
    The moment you join the Kingsguard, though, you can no longer hold other property beyond your sword/armor/horse. That's one of the reasons Tywin got so annoyed with Jaime when he joined up--cost him his heir.

  • The Fourth EstateThe Fourth Estate Registered User regular
    You wonder how much grooming Tywin gave Jaime, as in the books he is possibly the least suitable heir material apart from Sam. For someone obsessed with the family, Tywin does seem to do a pisspoor job with his own children.

    Or maybe that's the point.

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  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    You wonder how much grooming Tywin gave Jaime, as in the books he is possibly the least suitable heir material apart from Sam. For someone obsessed with the family, Tywin does seem to do a pisspoor job with his own children.

    Or maybe that's the point.

    He's obsessed with the family image. Making sure everyone knows his family is powerful.

    I suspect a lot of his "be a good father" drive died with Joanna, assuming he had any potential there to begin with. Not everyone is cut out to be a father.

    It is probably unfair, but I tend to blame Cersei for most of Jaime's damage. He wasn't exactly an unwilling participant, but the fact that he never even considered other women indicates he was pretty thoroughly under her spell; and it isn't until Riverrun that he begins to actually examine his choices. He goes straight to her in the Sept, but it's not a pleasant experience.

    The closest analogy I can think of is a druggie spending most of his youth and early adulthood in a haze, then being forcibly detoxed; testing the waters again, and finding he's better off.

    Tamin on
  • Katsuhiro 1139Katsuhiro 1139 Dublin, IrelandRegistered User regular
    You have to hand it to the Lannisters - prior to The Purge of Robert's heirs, and the food riots and what not, Tywin really did have a solid PR campaign in place.

  • YarYar Registered User regular
    Yeah one thing I gathered from Book 2, which isn't made clear in the show, was that Tyrion was not just a shrewd player of the Game, but he was actually one of the more competent leaders Westeros had in a long time. There was just no getting past the superstitions and prejudices the people had against the two little monsters (Joff and Tyrion).

  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Well, for example, I have two Kingsguard lists. One for actually keeping me safe, and one for the lulz of seeing all their attempts to seize power for themselves collide and fuck each other up.

    Group one:
    Spoiler:

    Group two:
    Spoiler:

    Shadowen on
  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    Since you posted that this morning I've been thinking of my own list.

    Marvel (all modern versions):
    Spoiler:

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  • Katsuhiro 1139Katsuhiro 1139 Dublin, IrelandRegistered User regular
    Yar, well said - Tyrion's actions at the Battle of the Blackwater (I think that's what it's called - it's been 2 years since I've read it) - were a testament to his foresight, strategical shrewdness and his willingness to use tactics considered abhorrent by his enemies. Were he left in charge, a Lannister regime would have been ultimately more humane than the alternative. As it stands, now you have religious zealots running amok, an army of ravenous undead invading the north, and an altogether perforated lord of the Night's Watch (not) watching The Wall anymore.

    Things are looking up!

    And by up, I mean downward, off a precipice.

  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Yar, well said - Tyrion's actions at the Battle of the Blackwater (I think that's what it's called - it's been 2 years since I've read it) - were a testament to his foresight, strategical shrewdness and his willingness to use tactics considered abhorrent by his enemies. Were he left in charge, a Lannister regime would have been ultimately more humane than the alternative. As it stands, now you have religious zealots running amok, an army of ravenous undead invading the north, and an altogether perforated lord of the Night's Watch (not) watching The Wall anymore.

    Things are looking up!

    And by up, I mean downward, off a precipice.

    hehe

    To be fair though, the perforation would likely have occurred either way

    Tamin on
  • Cultural Geek GirlCultural Geek Girl Registered User regular
    On differences in the Tywin and Arya stories, including a huge later-in-book2-3 spoiler.
    Spoiler:

    Huge Book 4 spoiler related to the above:
    Spoiler:


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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Bwhaha, from the TV thread:
    Neli wrote: »
    Dany hasn't done anything until last episode but it seems she's getting into some really interesting stuff now

    That smug fat man at the gates deserves a reward for his display of all that immense smugness

    How I wish. I hope they spice her up between her flashes of interesting. I suppose they could actually just cut straight to the interesting bits too. But that may get them ahead too fast, too. Guess we shall see.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Huge Book 4 spoiler related to the above:
    Spoiler:

    psst

    That event happens in book 3.

    Tamin on
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Tamin wrote: »
    psst

    That event happens in book 3.

    In some countries, eg the UK, "A Storm of Swords" was released as two books. Confusing.

  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    Tamin wrote: »
    psst

    That event happens in book 3.

    In some countries, eg the UK, "A Storm of Swords" was released as two books. Confusing.

    True. Should maybe specify book titles instead of numbers?

  • DomhnallDomhnall Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I read the paperback Uk edition which had SoS cut into two parts and I always know what people mean when they say book three. Its pretty clear that its just one book cut into two and not anything else. The title of the second part is (I have it on hand here):

    A Storm of Swords
    2: Blood and Gold.

    edit:

    Storm Harder would have been better.

    Domhnall on
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  • Boring7Boring7 Registered User regular
    I have to say, given the larger context and tone of the Martinverse, I really don't like Dany.

    It's not anything in particular she does or says, it's the fact that she's running around doing shit that's "Ned Stark dumb" and WINNING. Constant idiot gambits and an endless array of "evil is dumb" enemies that leave her stronger instead of raped to death, set on fire, thrown in a ditch, and blamed for the crimes of someone else.

    It is (perhaps irrationally) annoying to me.

    Thanatos wrote: »
    Goldman Sachs may as well be named COBRA.
  • LoserForHireXLoserForHireX Registered User regular
    Boring7 wrote: »
    I have to say, given the larger context and tone of the Martinverse, I really don't like Dany.

    It's not anything in particular she does or says, it's the fact that she's running around doing shit that's "Ned Stark dumb" and WINNING. Constant idiot gambits and an endless array of "evil is dumb" enemies that leave her stronger instead of raped to death, set on fire, thrown in a ditch, and blamed for the crimes of someone else.

    It is (perhaps irrationally) annoying to me.

    I'm just waiting for her story to matter to literally anything else that's happening. That's the only thing that annoys me about her is that so far, if she didn't exist, it wouldn't matter.

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  • Boring7Boring7 Registered User regular
    Well, she would still have to be RUMORED to exist, so people could waste time worrying about her, but yeah.

    Thanatos wrote: »
    Goldman Sachs may as well be named COBRA.
  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    Boring7 wrote: »
    Well, she would still have to be RUMORED to exist, so people could waste time worrying about her, but yeah.

    The whole dragons bringing magic back thing would have to have happened, also.

  • DomhnallDomhnall Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Well people are talking about her from A Feast for Crows onwards. It takes a while for news to travel and then be believed when its in the form of sailor stories.

    edit:
    Tamin wrote: »
    Huge Book 4 spoiler related to the above:
    Spoiler:

    psst

    That event happens in book 3.

    This isn't me bein' mysterious and foreign, it's me being an idjit.

    I really need to get me some "which events happen in which books" flashcards.

    Thats why I need to think long and hard before I post in the tv show thread. 'Am I remembering the book for the tv show here?' Plus I spoiled Beric Dondarion and where Arya ends up after Saltpans for my girlfriend..... Whoopsie!

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  • Cultural Geek GirlCultural Geek Girl Registered User regular
    Tamin wrote: »
    Huge Book 4 spoiler related to the above:
    Spoiler:

    psst

    That event happens in book 3.

    This isn't me bein' mysterious and foreign, it's me being an idjit.

    I really need to get me some "which events happen in which books" flashcards.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Tamin wrote: »
    Boring7 wrote: »
    Well, she would still have to be RUMORED to exist, so people could waste time worrying about her, but yeah.

    The whole dragons bringing magic back thing would have to have happened, also.

    She's also, you know, gonna play a major part in the second part of the series.

    Stuff makes alot more sense when you realise that it's more like 2 linked series. That's why ASOS feels like a huge climax and ties up so many threads and why AFFC and ADWD spend alot of time spinning out new characters and slowly building up plot elements again.

  • LoserForHireXLoserForHireX Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Tamin wrote: »
    Boring7 wrote: »
    Well, she would still have to be RUMORED to exist, so people could waste time worrying about her, but yeah.

    The whole dragons bringing magic back thing would have to have happened, also.

    She's also, you know, gonna play a major part in the second part of the series.

    Stuff makes alot more sense when you realise that it's more like 2 linked series. That's why ASOS feels like a huge climax and ties up so many threads and why AFFC and ADWD spend alot of time spinning out new characters and slowly building up plot elements again.

    Her story gets effectively reset in ADWD!

    As long as she's dicking around in somewhere that ISN'T Westeros, she's not going to matter. Hell, she's only met like two other characters that we have any reason to give a shit about outside of her story. And it took until ADWD for that to happen.

    Realistically, I'm certain that she's going to come to Westeros at some point, but for fuck's sake, can it be soon please?

    "The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
    "We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Tamin wrote: »
    Boring7 wrote: »
    Well, she would still have to be RUMORED to exist, so people could waste time worrying about her, but yeah.

    The whole dragons bringing magic back thing would have to have happened, also.

    She's also, you know, gonna play a major part in the second part of the series.

    Stuff makes alot more sense when you realise that it's more like 2 linked series. That's why ASOS feels like a huge climax and ties up so many threads and why AFFC and ADWD spend alot of time spinning out new characters and slowly building up plot elements again.

    Her story gets effectively reset in ADWD!

    As long as she's dicking around in somewhere that ISN'T Westeros, she's not going to matter. Hell, she's only met like two other characters that we have any reason to give a shit about outside of her story. And it took until ADWD for that to happen.

    Realistically, I'm certain that she's going to come to Westeros at some point, but for fuck's sake, can it be soon please?

    I hope not. Essos is a far more interesting place.

    Mostly, I'm just being snarky... but I'm far more invested in her journey than I am eager to see the conclusion.

  • Boring7Boring7 Registered User regular
    Meh.

    "Bringing the magic back" seems darned vague, what with prophecies, necromancers, and blood magicians scampering around before and after the dragons. We're basically being TOLD "mana levels are rising and used to be lower" without a lot of substantive or defined shifts, the assassin's guild has been face-dancing for a long time, Qyburn has been farting around with necromantic experiments for years, and Melisandre has been working her magic for a similar amount of time. I mean, I can make up some handwavium reinforcements for the point and I get that it's a thing because God R. R. Martin said so, but I'm not going to consider the dragons important with respect to magic if you could very easily remove them and just continue to say, "magic is coming back" the same way you already have been.

    But mostly she's just still wearing plot-armor and bumbling through successes like Mr. Magoo.

    Thanatos wrote: »
    Goldman Sachs may as well be named COBRA.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Tamin wrote: »
    Boring7 wrote: »
    Well, she would still have to be RUMORED to exist, so people could waste time worrying about her, but yeah.

    The whole dragons bringing magic back thing would have to have happened, also.

    She's also, you know, gonna play a major part in the second part of the series.

    Stuff makes alot more sense when you realise that it's more like 2 linked series. That's why ASOS feels like a huge climax and ties up so many threads and why AFFC and ADWD spend alot of time spinning out new characters and slowly building up plot elements again.

    Her story gets effectively reset in ADWD!

    As long as she's dicking around in somewhere that ISN'T Westeros, she's not going to matter. Hell, she's only met like two other characters that we have any reason to give a shit about outside of her story. And it took until ADWD for that to happen.

    Realistically, I'm certain that she's going to come to Westeros at some point, but for fuck's sake, can it be soon please?

    How is her story reset in ADWD?

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