Buying retro console hardware/software

POKÉMON MASTER WT SHERMAN · April 2012

TheSonicRetard wrote: »

Just a heads up, the next batch of Pier Solar is expected to ship on May 5th. The next batch is already sold out, but you can preorder for the following batch, which is expected to be the final batch printed. Watermelon sells the game for $50, which is an absolute steal. It's a great game, and it really has retained its value since launch.

They also sell the OST, which is 4 discs long, for $25. I normally don't buy OSTs, but the 4th disc in the OST is an official pressed version of the Sega CD enhancement disc, so if you weren't in the initial print of the game, you can still get an official, enhanced disc for just $25. You don't need to buy the disc - it's available freely on their site as an ISO that you can burn yourself, along with a lightscribe label for you to put on your disc, but the official pressed disc looks nicer. The OST isn't sold out, and you can still preorder for the first printing, which is also shipping out may 5th.

http://www.magicalgamefactory.com/en/shop/pier-solar_4/pier-solar_1/

Their website. I can't recommend this game enough. If you love retro gaming, and RPGs, this is made for you. It's one of the best 16-bit RPGs I've ever played. It's also technically the most impressive Genesis title ever produced, pulling off way more special effects than any other genesis game ever. It has a laundry list of graphical features which, for decades, SNES-fans held on a pedestal. In addition to the usual stuff like h-blank palette swaps, and producing more than 61 colors on screen at a time, and great use of dithering, line-scroll distortion, and highlight and shadow mode, the two biggest graphical tricks this game pulls off, which look stunning on the genesis, is true transparency and mode 7. This is the only genesis game ever to pull off real-deal, true transparency. As in, not relying on a meshed dithered pattern, not relying on flickering sprites... those faux-effects also appear in the game. But at moments, there is REAL transparency, long thought impossible on the Genesis, and when it's used it looks great.

Mode 7 is, of course, the biggest wow factor. Observe:

Steve Snake, the author of gens, is a part of the team which made this game - it's an all-star team of the best homebrew coders for the Genesis, and he claims that the game is so coded to the metal of the genesis, that every single genesis emulator out there is too inaccurate to emulate the game correctly, and claims it'll never be emulated. Considering he's the author of the best genesis emulator out there, I believe him. Everyone should experience this game.

Saw this posted earlier today and was just waiting until I got home to put my order in. Thanks for sharing it here. I never would have heard about it otherwise.

EclecticGroove · April 2012

TheSonicRetard wrote: »

EclecticGroove, your account has been approved over at Sega-16

Sweet, now I can actually post stuffs! Much thanks.

TheSonicRetard · April 2012

Madpanda wrote: »

TSR might use a different case but this is what I use

http://www.meritline.com/27mm-8-disc-dvd-case-black---p-45034.aspx

Covers are from thecoverproject.net The standard UGC covers fit fine if you scale them to 102%

You will need 8.5x14 paper to print them up though, this is what I use

https://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/ProductMediaSpec.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=Overview&oid=-17122&category=Paper+&+Media

Dvd covers you can fit on 8.5x11 by cutting off the margins and turning off horizontal centering, still telling the printer you are using 8.5x14.

I also use epson for dvd covers but the premium presentation matte which i can get locally at target or compusa, its a heavier weight and the covers come out better imo. The only place i've found for heavy weight (50lb+) 8.5x14 was really expensive, like $30 shipped for 50 sheets.

Oooh, now your comment about using a dremel to cut away at the case makes sense. I don't use those kind of spindle cases. The kind I buy are the ones with page-like DVD holders in the middle. The left cover has a spot for 1 DVD, then there are 2 pages of DVD holders in the middle, which can hold 4 each, and then the back cover can hold 1 DVD. The middle pages are just clipped in, and you can remove them without damaging the case. These sorts of cases are preferable to the ones you bought because they don't have the long spindle which needs to be removed in the middle of the case.

like this:

31WF2XDT41L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

You just pop the pages of DVDs out in the middle, and blam, a cart will fit, even without foam.

Madpanda · April 2012

Here is what my setup looks like

Cased genesis/snes/nes/neo geo and loose.
tYTid.jpg?1

DC/PSX/PS2/turbo grafx/handhelds

MoZxQ.jpg?1

CRT,Supergun, and system rack

FIBa8.jpg?2

The horror inside my DIY supergun. I started learning electronics as a hobby shortly after getting into retro collecting, the supergun was my first big project.

NFlOs.jpg?2

TheSonicRetard · April 2012

I love your boxed AES collection. A large chunk of my AES games are unboxed, and shockboxes are too big.

Your supergun isn't that horrifying. I'm trying to dig up pictures of when I made my arcade machine... I made an ipac from scratch using an old mechanical keyboard, which I housed in a VHS box with terminal strips outside running to all the pins on the chip. It looked like a bird's nest.

EDIT: I also notice you've got some saturn games in DVD cases. I considered doing that, for a few Sega CD games I own which have no case (namely tomcat alley and sewer shark) but I couldn't get around the size issue. So I've actually taken to making my own boxes from cardboard:

It's a work in progress. The next step is to print out a large graphic on adhesive paper to wrap the box up. I'll show the end results when it's all done.

DisruptorX2 · April 2012

Creating custom boxes sounds like a cool idea, honestly. I don't know how I still have boxes for most of my oldest PC games (that I still have. The 5" floppy based ones are long gone), but only 5 SNES ones, 2 of which are very ratty.

TheSonicRetard · April 2012

DisruptorX2 wrote: »

Creating custom boxes sounds like a cool idea, honestly. I don't know how I still have boxes for most of my oldest PC games (that I still have. The 5" floppy based ones are long gone), but only 5 SNES ones, 2 of which are very ratty.

I miss the old longbox days from PC gaming past. Like I said, I have an impressive longbox collection for my Amiga systems, and I still have all my old PC longboxes. Stuff like Quake 3, Megaman X, Mortal Kombat 2, Mechwarrior 2, etc. Those boxes look great on a big shelf.

Building a real-deal retro PC which will output to my TV screen is my next project. I want to be able to house it in a console-like shell and play old windows 95 games without using dosbox, on real hardware from the time. I found a program which will switch the refresh rate of my PC to match that of an SDTV.

Madpanda · April 2012

Those are actually MVS shockboxes.

I'll have to get a batch of those dvd cases you use, the ones I have require modding which really is annoying when you are doing 50-100 of em.

What do you search for on ebay to find those? Also can the left side be removed at all? Most of my dvd cases have everything from the jewel cases held in by insert clips. Manual, cover, spine cards etc.

TheSonicRetard · April 2012

Madpanda wrote: »

Those are actually MVS shockboxes.

I'll have to get a batch of those dvd cases you use, the ones I have require modding which really is annoying when you are doing 50-100 of em.

What do you search for on ebay to find those? Also can the left side be removed at all? Most of my dvd cases have everything from the jewel cases held in by insert clips. Manual, cover, spine cards etc.

I search for "8 disc DVD case" or some variation. There's not normal place to put your inserts, but I attached a couple of clips with adhesive backs into the case to hold my manuals. I got them from walmart in their sewing section for like $2 for 10.

EDIT: As for the shockboxes, I guess you can't tell when they're all together and of one type. They're noticably thinner and taller than an AES case, though, which I why I don't consider them. But I might make my own AES case, as it's cardboard, wrapped in plastic, that is form fitting for the cart. Those AES boxes, by the by, are a great example of the visually pleasing aesthetics side of collecting. They're so large and oddly shaped compared to other video game boxes, that they almost look like picture frames. And they usually have awesome cover art.

Also, on one of your pictures, do I see a quickshot maverick 3 joystick? Did you get that originally for your SMS, or Genesis? Those are quality 8-bit controllers.

Madpanda · April 2012

Yep that is a quickshot, snagged it for $2 at a play n trade, feels like new and I've played quite a few genesis shooters on that one. I had a few of those as a kid and was glad to find one on the cheap. Need to find the NES one also. I have 2 advantages, one the A button is wonky, and the second doesn't register down. Will have to pop then open at some point.

EclecticGroove · April 2012

I'm glad I have the cases for almost all of my games still. just a few loose Genny cartridges that came from the close out of a local game store waaaay back.

Aside from that the only loose ones I have are, I think, just a few Saturn and DC bootlegs that I have not been able to pick up the originals for yet.

Justice · April 2012

Awesome. You guys have some seriously fun rooms. Makes me feel like a kid wishing you lived near me so I could visit and play co-op or versus. Phoenix, anyone?

Love to hear more about the hobby electronics work and the super gun. I think I could get really into the hardware side of things, but I don't know where to start. I've done some home electrical work and want to move into hardware hacking, but dunno the first step.

Madpanda · April 2012

This is all I started with, most of it doesn't apply to supergun building but its a great book for learning hands on. Slagcoin.com which primary deals in joysticks also has a really good section on connectors and tools usefull for supergun.

http://www.amazon.com/Make-Electronics-Discovery-Charles-Platt/dp/0596153740

Actually kind of stalled at the moment on the electronics side, they are getting into IC's now which is a big jump from discrete components. I have the parts for the rest of the book just need to sit down and start doing what they say and it will start making sense, i hope.

TheSonicRetard · April 2012

Justice wrote: »

Awesome. You guys have some seriously fun rooms. Makes me feel like a kid wishing you lived near me so I could visit and play co-op or versus. Phoenix, anyone?

Love to hear more about the hobby electronics work and the super gun. I think I could get really into the hardware side of things, but I don't know where to start. I've done some home electrical work and want to move into hardware hacking, but dunno the first step.

Building a supergun is actually not a bad place to start if you're getting into hardware, mainly because a supergun is entirely passive wiring. Before you build one, you have to conceptually understand what a supergun is, and how an arcade cabinet, and arcade games, work. See, every arcade game is made to a wiring standard, so that cabinets could be mass produced. The idea is that the connections for the monitor, the controller inputs, the sound, the power, etc from a cabinet should be wired onto a connection in a certain way, so that, when paired witha matching connection on an arcade PCB. Since cabinets could be wired in a variety of ways, so long as they connected to a connection strip in the correct way, it could operate the game in question. Arcade PCBs are basically game consoles themselves - they contain the CPU for the board, the memory, and in many cases, the actual game roms too (although some PCBs sell the main board separately from game roms, which can be swapped like cartridges. Examples include the Neo Geo MVS, Capcom CPS2, Sega Titan V, Sega Naomi, Sega-Sammy Atomiswave, etc). A strip along the side of the PCB, which resembles a cartridge slot, simply routes in the power, the controller inputs, RGB information, and sound. If you take a wire and solder it onto the pin on the side of the PCB which outputs the R channel, for example, you could connect it to an RGB monitor and get a picture, provided the board is receiving power.

Now, in the old days of arcade gaming, each manufacturer had their own wiring standard, sometimes even from game to game. This meant that, every time you wanted to get a new game, you needed to buy a full cabinet. Conversion kits began being created which let you rewire a cabinet from Game X to Game Y, so you could simply buy Game Y's PCB and play it on Cabinet X. This idea caught on, and in the mid 80's, several arcade makers came together to form JAMMA - the japanese ammusement machinery manufacturers association - a governing body to create a universal cabinet standard. This standard became known as Jamma, and provided a standard that you could wire your games to, that would work on every jamma-compatible game. This standard outputted to a 15 khz monitor, had left and right stereo sound, accepted 2 joysticks, and 3 buttons per player + start, along with a coin slot for each player. From the mid 80's to late 90's, every nearly arcade game used the jamma standard. If you have a jamma standard cabinet, you basically have a cabinet which can play the vast majority of arcade games.

With all this in mind, a supergun is a jamma cabinet, wired into something that resembles a console. You're simply running a wire from the RGB pins on your jamma PCB to an RGB converter, so it'll output on your TV. You're running wires from microswitches, which run to both the common pin and button 1, 2, etc on your jamma PCB. You're running the sound pins to stereo outputs. You get the idea. It's all passive wiring - no need to create complex circuits or anything. It'll give you good insight into easy hardware modification, with the ability to use lots of off the shelf parts. It's kinda ridiculous that superguns themselves go for so much, actually, given how little is in them.

MAS Supernova was essentially the first commercial supergun sold. I remember seeing their ads back in issues of EGM and Diehard Gamefan and wanting one so badly. I was actually in the middle of building my own supergun when I found the guy who ran MAS back in the day and learned he was custom making Supernovas at a reasonable price.

As for other hardware stuff I'm doing... I'm building a game gear console. I'm taking a spare gamegear I got, and turning it into a console that I can plug into my TV and play with a controller. I got the idea from here:

http://www.lcv.ne.jp/~mgs1987/sega/gg.html

Mine is going to be a tiny bit bigger than that (namely because I don't have access to all that unbelievable equipment that guy had) but I can do everything he did to that game gear and create a similar case without much hassle. The process is almost identical to what I described above about the supergun, only a lot more complex to pull off. What I'm doing is pulling the RGB lines from the game gear's screen, and outputting them to an RGB->Composite converter. I'm moving the cart slot by desoldering the connected cart slot, and soldering all the connection points to a ribbon cable. The actual controller is just as I described the supergun - I'm soldering wires onto all the contact points for buttons on the game gear and doing the simple mod shown in the link above to a SMS controller to get it working.

EclecticGroove · April 2012

That is kind of funny, it's the opposite of what most people try and do (make a home console portable). But i can see the appeal of getting games off those tiny systems and onto a bigger screen. I'd rather try and make some sort of a cradle that you could pop it into that would accomplish the same thing... but if you have spares lying around, why not I guess?

TheSonicRetard · April 2012

The game gear is basically a portable Sega Master System with a slightly updated VDP that has a larger palette. Master System games will even run on the system unmodified, just with the pins switched around for game gear input.

That larger palette, however, means that game gear software not written for the SMS can't be played normally on an SMS. Now, there is a whole project out there committed to converting exclusively game gear games into master system images, which you can build a homemade cart for, but the opposite remains appealing: there are essentially updated SMS titles out there that you can only play on a small, fuzzy screen. The game gear got several titles that the SMS did not, like Sonic Triple Trouble and Tail's Sky Patrol. Those games are worth playing, even on a big screen (since I'm obviously a-ok with playing SMS games. it's my favorite system all-time). There are even GG exclusive entries to longrunning series, like Fantasy Zone Gear and Panzer Dragoon Mini. I have these games, and I've played them on my game gear, but I would love to play an entire series of games on real hardware on the same screen.

If this project goes smoothly, I'm considering doing the same thing to a Neo Geo Pocket Color.

TheSonicRetard · April 2012

I guess I should also say, because it's not necessarily obvious, that many of these retro consoles, especially the sega and atari ones, have thriving homebrew communities. Every year, more than a handful of new titles gets released for classic systems, often in low print runs as they're only marketed towards these specific communities. Barkley Shut up n Jam for the Jaguar is one such game - it was never released. Usually, these homebrew communities will pool together the money for the rights and code to these unfinished games, and publish them by themselves, legally, from the content owner. They'll then complete the games, press them into carts, make new labels, and sell them for usually pretty good prices (around $50-$100 depending on the game).

I mentioned pier solar earlier and this is a notable exception. That is not a game that wasn't released, which got bought and finished by a team. Rather, that was a game made from scratch from the ground up by a group of hobbiests. It's comparable to the weird pirate games you saw during the famicom days in china, except these are among the best coders the genesis ever saw, and it was made over several years. The result is one of the finest homebrew games ever created.

I kinda take it for granted that people know this, but it's not really obvious. Most retro consoles have new games coming out for them every year.

harvest · April 2012

Question about The Cover Project. If I look at, say, Dragon Warrior I it says the cover is for "Universal Game Case." Top two hits on Google for Universal Game Case shows some awesome case that holds SNES, N64, Genesis, 32x, and disc-based games. They don't seem to include NES games, and I don't see how one would fit in there in the images supplied.

So here's the questions. Will covers marked Universal Game Case from The Cover Project fit a double-size DVD case, and is there a Universal Game Case that will fit NES games?

I don't want to start throwing down money and find out I bought the completely wrong thing.

Madpanda · April 2012

The covers for universal game cases will fit double sized dvd cases with a bit of scaling (i use 102% in microsoft paint) or stretching of the image which takes more time. They will fit fine if you just print them at 100% but are a bit small.

Universal Game case doesn't fit nes games stock, you have to modify them, read cut out all of the internal plastic that holds carts in.

This explains what has to be done for UGCs to fit various consoles

http://www.thecoverproject.net/forums/index.php?topic=3294.0

I don't use UGC's anymore as there is only one place that makes em and my second order had a 4 month delay, and the plastic covering has this frosted look which I dont like. The double wide dvd's are easily available and have a clear plastic cover which makes stuff pop.

TheSonicRetard · April 2012

UGCs are also slightly bigger than normal genesis cases, which looks funky on a shelf. You can actually go on ebay and search for something like "empty genesis boxes" or "genesis boxes only" and you'll find auctions for bundles of empty cases that you can gut. I bought a pack of 17 for $34 a while back, which comes out to $2 a case.

anoffday · April 2012

Keep the game collection pics coming. These are awesome. I'd take a pic of mine, but it needs a lot more organizing.

harvest · April 2012

First of the month I'm gonna buy a stack of universal game cases and get some covers printed at my local hometown print shop. Hopefully they don't hassle me about copyright. I asked Kinkos (Fedex) and they won't do it unless I have written permission. I might also be able to get them printed at Staples' online print shop thingy but I'd rather patronize my local businesses.

TheSonicRetard · April 2012

harvest wrote: »

First of the month I'm gonna buy a stack of universal game cases and get some covers printed at my local hometown print shop. Hopefully they don't hassle me about copyright. I asked Kinkos (Fedex) and they won't do it unless I have written permission. I might also be able to get them printed at Staples' online print shop thingy but I'd rather patronize my local businesses.

You're gonna have trouble finding UGCs. They're consistently sold out, and last time a new batch came in, it was 2 years after the previous batch had sold out. And the new batch sold out within a day due to demand.

harvest · April 2012

They're still selling them on MediaShelving and it's not saying sold out? So I don't know what happens if you order them do they just tell you 'later bro' and take your money? Also Racketboy is selling them as singles for three times the price. Are these just old listings or what? I guess I'll ask the sellers directly and see what they say. If they don't actually have them I'll buy the double-wide DVD cases.

Speaking of double wide DVD cases, do you have to remove the holders on the front/back cover insides to get games to fit, or is there enough room with just the pages taken out?

TheSonicRetard · April 2012

So Harvest, any word on if those mediashelving UGCs are in stock or not?

I just got a white memory cart to go along with my JPN Saturn (the one that's modded that I play Shining Force Sc 2 and Sc 3 on). This means that both of my saturns are fully stocked - the US model 1 black saturn having a Pro Action Replay+ which I keep my saves on, and the JPN model 2 white saturn with an official Sega memory card to keep saves on.

amalur · April 2012

Hey sonic could you post pics of your collection

harvest · April 2012

No word back yet from MediaShelving, I don't really expect to hear from them until sometime Monday at the earliest.

harvest · April 2012

Just heard back from MediaShelving regarding Universal Game Cases:

"Only a couple cartons left but they will be gone quickly. We are expecting more in mid-June if you want to put an order on backorder."

I think I'll use 27mm 8-disc DVD cases instead.

Beltaine · April 2012

As much as I'd like to have actual physical copies of all my favorite games and systems to play them on, I just don't have the space. I've got some USB-compatible controllers and emulators

harvest · May 2012

My new SNES power cord and controller extension cord came in the mail today, so everything is set up now so I can play with the Super Advantage (damn short cord). I played Zelda up until you enter the dark world and it was glorious. I think I prefer the SNES version to the GBA version.

Tomorrow I'm going to try and pick up an Genesis at this local retro gaming shop I found out about and get in on the next batch of Pier Solar preorders. I never owned a Sega system back in the day and had very little exposure to them. Any games I should watch out for while I'm at the shop, cream of the crop stuff? Sonic games obviously, but that's all I know for sure.

Bullio · May 2012

harvest wrote: »

My new SNES power cord and controller extension cord came in the mail today, so everything is set up now so I can play with the Super Advantage (damn short cord). I played Zelda up until you enter the dark world and it was glorious. I think I prefer the SNES version to the GBA version.

Tomorrow I'm going to try and pick up an Genesis at this local retro gaming shop I found out about and get in on the next batch of Pier Solar preorders. I never owned a Sega system back in the day and had very little exposure to them. Any games I should watch out for while I'm at the shop, cream of the crop stuff? Sonic games obviously, but that's all I know for sure.

Gunstar Heroes
Streets of Rage 2

RockinX · May 2012

DisruptorX2 wrote: »

Anyway, here's the Street Fighter game. Doesn't look like anything special. Despite what the sticker says, it was new. Manual is fully in English, but the cart is not. Bought it at a local (now defunct) retail store with a fairly large electronics section at some point in the late 90s.

anoffday wrote: »

I might just have to bite the bullet, the way I did with Chrono Trigger, and just buy it. It's probably not getting any cheaper. Actually my wife bought Chrono Trigger for me last Christmas, but I know she paid around 60 bucks for it.

Chrono Trigger was 60 bucks when I bought in 1998-1999. I imagine its always been that much, unless you get it from an unsuspecting mother at a garage sale.

What? Is it me is the manual is glossy like other SNES games'? When I bought my copy new in 1995 it came with a paper manual and the pages were black and white =/

Madpanda · May 2012

Bullio wrote: »

harvest wrote: »

My new SNES power cord and controller extension cord came in the mail today, so everything is set up now so I can play with the Super Advantage (damn short cord). I played Zelda up until you enter the dark world and it was glorious. I think I prefer the SNES version to the GBA version.

Tomorrow I'm going to try and pick up an Genesis at this local retro gaming shop I found out about and get in on the next batch of Pier Solar preorders. I never owned a Sega system back in the day and had very little exposure to them. Any games I should watch out for while I'm at the shop, cream of the crop stuff? Sonic games obviously, but that's all I know for sure.

Gunstar Heroes
Streets of Rage 2

Side scrolling
Castlevania Bloodlines
Shinobi 3 and revenge of shinobi. Shadow dancer is pretty good also but the weakest out of the 3 imo.
Contra hard corps, with the warning that this game is pretty hard. The us version is much more difficult
Quackshot
Strider
Altered Beast

RPG
Phantasy star 4
Shining force 1 and 2 (srpg)

Also for any system check racketboy.com for recommendations as well. The prices might be slightly off depending on article age but its still a good game list resource

http://www.racketboy.com/retro/sega/genesis/the-best-sega-genesis-games-under-10

TheSonicRetard · May 2012

amalur wrote: »

Hey sonic could you post pics of your collection

I'm limited by space in my apartment, so I only have a bit of it out for display, but I'll snap some pictures tonight.

maximumzero · May 2012

Wish we had a good Retro shop around these parts. Rhino Video Games was awesome for the six months or so they were around before Gamestop bought 'em.

DisruptorX2 · May 2012

RockinX wrote:

What? Is it me is the manual is glossy like other SNES games'? When I bought my copy new in 1995 it came with a paper manual and the pages were black and white =/

Yes, its a standard manual, like my manuals for Zelda, Mario, Star Wars, etc. Full color and glossy and whatnot.

Heck, everything about the game seems legit except for the fact that the game itself is half Japanese. I'm not sure it is bootleg, or what is up with it, honestly. I can't imagine there's an official release with an unfinished translation in it. Come to think of it, I think the sticker was there because the game wasn't factory sealed. It had never been opened, and the cart was still in its bag, but the box didn't have the factory wrapping.

Allforce · May 2012

Sort of related, but do we have an arcade cabinet thread around here?

TheSonicRetard · May 2012

Allforce wrote: »

Sort of related, but do we have an arcade cabinet thread around here?

http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/141757/building-a-supergun/p1

Closest I know

DisruptorX2 · May 2012

Boxes!

I don't really collect these, just have them. Though I bought that Final Fantasy 7 copy not that long ago, to replace the one I got rid of years ago. I also ordered a Dark Sun box, as I only have it on a loose disc. So I guess its growing.

As a note, I do miss the big boxes, but I never liked how they weren't standardized in size. My skills at the photographic art are pathetic, but you can probably make out all the titles, except maybe US Navy Fighters, at the end there.

Lindsey Lohan · May 2012

Allforce wrote: »

Sort of related, but do we have an arcade cabinet thread around here?

It's hard because so many arcade cabinets revolve around MAME nowadays and we have such a strict no emulator discussion policy that it seems those discussions always end up petering out quickly.

Penny Arcade

Buying retro console hardware/software

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