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[LGBT]: Bigots can go eat a bag of [Chick-Fil-A]
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We've apparently established that you're more comfortable attacking strawman arguments. Who said this, exactly? Oh right: nobody outside of your head.
Here's a question: how is somebody who is strongly opinionated and a self-declared asshole going to "admit these flaws", much less improve on them, if nobody tells him when he fucks up?
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http://troublethinking.wordpress.com (Updated Wed) http://twitter.com/#!/Durandal4532
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2011/11/dan-savage-queer-queer-glitter-bombing-victim/44539/
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It's always sounded like opinion to me, not that he is claiming expertise, so it never bothered me. I tend to agree with him on it, but maybe I'm biased though, because while I know several bi people, they all date one sex exclusively. I usually just chalk it up to 'humans are complex'.
Yeah, you're biased. If a straight person said 'I know it's a stereotype that gay men can't form long-term loving relationships, but I tend to agree with that because I know several gay guys and they all sleep around constantly', you'd shit. (As would I.)
Of course it's opinion. So? That's pretty much all of what he says; there's no "expertise" for Good, Giving and Game, say, or for virtually all of his columns and podcast (the exception being when he brings in an expert to discuss things that require, say, medical expertise, or that are beyond the scope of his knowledge). Why does "it's just his opinion" mean that it's not OK to criticize?
Again: I don't get the idea that if a leading figure in the LGBT community does both great things and shitty things, that it's a party foul to point out the shitty things in the hope that he will quit doing said shitty things.
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Holy crap Mythago, did I accidentally kick your puppy while posting that?
Pardon a little hyperbole, but this right here is what I specifically referenced. Paring down what he has said and done to simply "nope, wealthy white gay guy only concerned about wealthy white gay guy concerns".
And I even agree that he should have his biases, flaws and whatnot pointed out. You're right, he can't improve if he doesn't receive constructive feedback.
'He doesn't give a shit about anyone but gay guys' is not constructive feedback when there is ample evidence to the contrary.
Edit: hell, Savage was where I learned that bisexuals get shit from everyone, and it wasn't even during an anti-bisexual rant.
Also, he does post/answer critiques of his advice or statements from time to time, and his views on bisexuals specifically have been called out and responded to. I too am a reader from the days of "Hey Faggot", and I'd say he has at least improved over the decades. There is always room for improvement.
And the 'for' signs have only started showing up recently, like people are just finding out. Wonder if there's money/publicity flowing from shadow groups since it looks close.
Also, it's interesting the parallels to the gay rights movement from the 60's, leading up to and following the Stonewall riots. From books I've read of that time, there was dissent within the G/L communities regarding how to proceed. Those who advocated restraint, attempts to show a non-threatening face that would play well with others, so to speak. Conversely, there were those who cited other movements that were loudly outspoken, who took measures vocally to the streets figuratively and literally.
I see Dan as a modern extension of the latter; he's not always right about everything, but he's vocal and willing to get in the face of the establishment and thumb his nose at them.
I do not dispute that his handling of issues that involve lesbians/transgender rights/women/etc have pock marks and could continue to use some work (based on what I have read critiquing him, as I am not a lesbian, transgender, a woman, etc), but pithy minimization does disservice to the person who did ultimately help shine a light on the long standing horrors of LGBTQ suicide rates.
Oh. My. God.
Edit: That's not wonky forum timestamp stuff, I just didn't want to spam the thread with a throwaway post.
Super late edit: references to things he's said on his show (podcast?) I can't speak to, as I haven't listened to the podcast.
I learn something every day. Too bad it usually sucks.
Yep. It's very hard to reason someone out of something they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.
Physicians take the Hippocratic oath. Not nurses, EMT's or paramedics. We're supposed to live by it, but it's not an oath.
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A lot of the religious people I know (which happen to be mainly middle aged white ladies) very much pick and choose what they want out of the Bible. I avoid them as much as I can. She also tells me I'm going to hell, but if it gets me away from these people, I'm ok with this.
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There's your argument right there. Just throw it back at her.
Holy crap Forar, why do you think that it's OK for you to be sarcastic and eye-rolling but everybody else has to play Miss Manners' timid little sister? The 'hyperbole' was misrepresenting what I said and, really, not what Blackjack said.
Yes, he's gotten better over time. (He's still a shithead on a lot of issues, and yes, he has some pretty fucking huge privilege blinders spot-welded over his eyeballs.) That's because people have been calling him on his shit. It is therefore kind of silly goosy to suggest that it's mean or "the enemy of the good" or counterproductive to call him on his shit. Nobody is saying that Savage ought to STFU or hurts the community or has done nothing for us.
As for his remarks, I'm a little puzzled in that it seemed like he was supposed to be talking about journalism, not the Bible. If his follow-up remarks are true, then I don't get what the students' problem was; he wasn't bagging on Christians, he was bagging on hypocrites.
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I was specifically referring to Blackjack. Apparently I should have quoted them directly, but it wasn't aimed at you in the first place.
This seems... well, is the base really so far to the right now that gay people can't even WORK for conservative candidates?
Pretty much. Any gay person who isn't ashamed to be gay, and wants some sort of equal rights, is an "activist homosexual" to the far right. Basically if you have the audacity to call them on their shit, you're an activist homosexual.
Hint: I'm pretty sure she's heard of it.
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Your mom is what I call a quasi-Christian. She cherry picks the parts of the religion that support her already biased views, or that get her something in return (I bet she loves that whole going to heaven and Jesus dying for her sins part). She ignores the parts that don't jive which what she wants to believe, or don't give her something in return. Most 'Christians' in America today are quasi-Christians. Most of them don't even know what the Bible actually says, outside of the passages their equally biased pastor gives them every Sunday. Ask them some hard questions about the more obscure books of the Bible sometime, and watch the sputtering back pedaling and red faces of embarrassment.
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Of course they say that. That is the net outcome of a completely improvable hypothesis, that can't even be sort of kind of verified through observation. It becomes easy, even encouraged, to downplay any thought or theory that isn't your own...I mean, who's going to argue with you? Nothing can be proven anyway, so your way is obviously the right way, because no one can objectively say different.
Magus, if forced, to talk to such people, it's always fun to arm yourself with Bible quotes (Matthew 7:21 is particularly good) pointing out religious hypocrisy.
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The religion of love, everyone.
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The Bible burns my skin when I touch it. I'm not sure why.
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This fits in nicely with that radio host who suggested that a caller (a father who thought his daughter might be gay) pay a friend to rape his daughter straight.
URGH I just want to scream.
Latex/neoprene gloves are cheap these days...
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