As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
Options
[PA Comic] Wednesday, May 2, 2012 - The Ultimatrix
Geth
LegionPerseus VeilRegistered User, Moderator, Penny Arcade Staff, Vanilla Staff vanilla
LegionPerseus VeilRegistered User, Moderator, Penny Arcade Staff, Vanilla Staff vanilla
Posts
still, I like this, there's just *more* art to look at.
I hope the purpose behind this comic isn't to suggest that all the games mentioned are shit because they aren't all providing those qualities in a single product. All-or-nothing mentality from video game players is kinda annoying. Not having a feature or design theory another game has doesn't make something bad.
I can not let that happen again.
Also its been a looooong time since we've seen Thomas Kemper in a comic.
You sound way too reasonable, down-to-earth and rational. We can't have that in the gaming community.
"Gee, TERA sure is fun to play, too bad the quests are boring and aren't fully voiced like TOR."
"TOR sure does have awesome storylines, companions, and quest cinematics... too bad the gameplay is boring."
Mayhaps Blizzard is looking at all the competition while they build project Titan or this hush-hush MMO people say they are making, and will implement all these systems together so that they may grasp every human on the planet in their online multiplayer grip.
hahahahaha... ohh my no. I've been following Cabal/The Secret World for quite a while and for the longest time was convinced it was just vaporware like SO many other super ambitious MMOs. From what I've seen and heard it does have a few interesting systems, but I haven't seen anything to indicate it will match what other Triple A MMOs are offering.
A game isn't allowed to have a great story and engaging gameplay?
Because that's basically what this comic boils down to, in a silly hyperbolic kind of way.
sorry about the double post, meant to edit not quote
I'll think of something clever to put here later
Secret Satan 2013 Wishlist
That's nice and all in theory, but doesn't dismiss the comic's point. To Gabe (and many others, including me), a good MMO should have a balance of gameplay, quest quality and storytelling. The three games he mentions are severely unbalanced in two of the three aspects. Also, you can't really play more than one MMO concurrently, and the time and money you invest in an MMO demand a high return in quality experience The reasonable reaction here is not picking the one with the best strength, but not playing any of them. And that is a problem.
None of that disproves the "competition fosters quality" concept, much the contrary. thing is, to many people, the MMO makers have yet to reach the level of quality that justifies those players' investment.
She fucking hates it.
And Chrome. Kitty did not get all the litter off its feet...
Ok, I was bored. Waiting for some equipment to open up so I can continue working. You know, at "work".
Singular pro's: http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/1647/venn1.png
Combined con's: http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9785/venn2.png
I agree, I had a lot of fun in the GW2 beta, can't wait for the next one.
And, like others, the comic was giant and weird for me in Firefox.
As soon as someone invents the Metaverse, this won't be a problem. I'm certain of it.
You forgot to put WoW in the center of the cons diagram.
They're allowed to, but the the problem is expectations on what qualifies as great story or gameplay. Or hell, not even great, but even just good. It's all subjective. Usually I don't see people taking a video game for what it is. People praise TOR for doing something new with story, but because it didn't do something new for gameplay at the same time, oh man, suddenly it's a bad game. Or maybe it's actually an acceptable game and people are just getting caught in the all-or-nothing trap I mentioned above.
the frustration stems from how easy it is to imagine what it would be like if you had all of the qualities that are so apparent. I mean, the things we're talking about here aren't really vague or nuanced, players very clearly see what they like about each experience. it's not like they're just asking the games to be "better". the features are well delineated.
I remember thinking the exact same thing about the harvest moon series back when i was addicted to them as a kid. THIS game had really cool festivals but no cooking. THIS one lets you experiment a lot more with the crops but almost completely removes the fun house expansions, and so on. Lacking those features didn't make them bad games, but I always just wished they would make a game that kept all of the great ones.
and I just can't agree that it's somehow bratty or annoying to want multiple features you like in one game. also also I think we do have a fun game at some point on the horizon that can capture the best things about current MMO paradigms while cutting out the cruft. Isn't that what WoW basically did all those years ago?
On the black screen
Truth, this man speaks it.
Furthermore, after playing the GW2 Beta this weekend I found the personal story very engaging and fun, and I literally could not put the game down and miss it so much now. I'd say we can safely assume I was having fun... so....yea.
Truth be told it's all subjective and left up to the opinion of the individual, while you may not like something I may think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. It is impossible to appease everyone, and a bit bratty to want everything to appease you.
I don't object to playing another MMO. I'm just not going to play an MMO that is simply WoW with different graphics.
Hooray, we all have different opinions. I'm honestly really surprised that Mike and Jerry liked Tera the most, though. Soooo Korean.
SO THIS COMIC IS SHIT, FUCK PENNY ARCADE YEAH *SUNGLASSES INDOORS*
But to be serious yeah, I'm still looking forward to TOR even after all I've heard. All the stuff regarding "it plays like WoW" is like... I dunno, big deal. I like how WoW plays compared to other MMOs I played, so I mean... that's a plus. But it has been a known thing about TOR for a long time. People jumping into TOR and acting surprised at the similarities seems odd to me, and other negative impressions I've seen have been disingenuous (an example is a bug that showed up following a patch, regarding some PvP rewards; people reacted like it was done on purpose).
On that note, lots of games have similar play styles. There's other hallmarks and hooks and merits to decide if a game is good or not. And I'm not saying it can't be a legit concern, but I mean, I think it's an echo chamber thing.
But is this actual fact or quality assessment? Are the settings of Tera and Guild Wars constructed in ways where the players aren't meant to be the heroes, but constructed well in that regard? I know these are really weird questions to ask, but if you look at something like the first Half-Life, Gordon Freeman wasn't THE guy everyone was like, "OH SHIT, WE'RE SAVED!" over. You were playing the game as a guy who was stuck in a situation way over his head, just being thrust along. You happen to be an important component, but there's little to no fame involved. So an MMO setting can be constructed that way. An easier way to ask this is, is there a Lord British equivalent in those games? :P
Totally exposing my nerd life here, but I kinda run into this shit a lot when I RP in WoW. Everyone is trying to be some grand hero in the world, and take the actual content / achievements their character has been through and apply it as hard fact. But everyone is the Veteran of the Wrath Gate who the dragon queen calls to. Everyone is the guy who fought alongside John J. Keesham. You've gotta be willing to step aside and decide, "Maybe I'm not that guy" when interacting with others. That's the problem with narrative in MMOs that people always bring up. If Guild Wars and Tera made you feel like THE guy, it'd just loop back around to this issue. There's no winning. The game can falsely make you feel like the guy, or you can be a small part of the big machine.
Until recently I was playing three MMOs concurrently, and currently am playing two. For me, it's just like any other genre out there. The issue is the money investment, yes. But if you have the money to burn and aren't crippling yourself, then it's not a problem. It's okay to play multiple MMOs at once, especially now that many of them are adopting the freemium model. The way I see the argument, it's like saying "you can't really play more than one FPS concurrently," or RPG, or RTS, etc. But that's just me, I don't mind paying money for services. Paying money for things is an entirely separate issue I think. Though if you want to keep it tightly bound to this topic, "Why do I have to pay for Call of Duty and Halo and Gears of War? Why can't they make a game that takes all the best aspects from those and make one game?"
They tried that over the last couple of decades. Duke Nukem Forever. And look how that turned out.
Edit - Just to be clear on that DNF dig, I'm not talking about the final product, I'm talking about the development cycle and how much time and money was burned on trying to make the game keep up with newly developed features in video games. If you try to do that to an MMO's development, you're fucking yourself massively.
I never bothered with TERA because of the hassle involved in finding out what I already know, lol Korean grind WoW clone, but I hear only good things about the depth of it's combat and the fact that it has stuff like politics in the endgame.
GW2 is something I've been waiting 3 years to play, and having been in the BWE I feel mostly vindicated in my faith in ArenaNet to deliver on what they promised. It's not a Jesus MMO revolution or even a radical departure from what themepark MMOs are, but it does a lot of things right in PvE feeling more organic and PvP having more incentive and strategy and skill involved. It has room for improvement, but even as it is, it's a great game.
Putting their highlights together would make a great game, probably the pinnacle of greatness that can be achieved by any themepark MMO or MMO in general, but it would require more man hours, sheer force of will, money and patience, not to mention risk, then currently exists in the game industry or may ever exist. SWTOR's full VA alone would make it untenable in the long term simply because of the time and money needed to fully VA new content updates. And the bar would always get higher with every new release, as it did for WoW.
But men like us, like Gabe, can dream.
I'm sure Zombicide is neat and the people making it are swell, but seriously, screw zombies already. Sick. To. Death. Of. Zombies.