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[StarCraft2] POST IN THE NEW THREAD. DIABLO KILLED THIS ONE.

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Posts

  • iowaiowa Registered User regular
    that queen change would be awesome.

    sooo many creep tumors.

    you man the island and the cocaine and the elegant cars
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  • GraviijaGraviija Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    A non-chrono'd observer now comes out in the same time as a currently chronoboosted one.

    A chronod one comes out within the duration of chrono.
    Yeah, just tried it. It's crazy how fast you can get an observer out now.

    rvcontre78 wrote:
    This game is all about the racism. I hate to think about all the backlash that will be involved but the truth must be told. The truth about a man who kills people by dropping them from his crane. Political correctness be damned. Damned to the max.
  • iowaiowa Registered User regular
    im glad they buffed creep spread

    was too easy to stop before

    you man the island and the cocaine and the elegant cars
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  • SceptreSceptre Registered User regular
    Pretty surprised there's no templar nerf.

  • shwaipshwaip Registered User regular
    I don't know which of the TL or b.net forum threads about this is more amusing. Both have people saying that the creep change is the end of the world and people saying that the other people are too bad to understand the ramifications of these changes.

  • SorCSorC Registered User regular
    Sceptre wrote: »
    Pretty surprised there's no templar nerf.

    That's because it already happened a while ago ... remember the Khaydarin Amulet upgrade?

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    I don't think that Templar need a nerf. Something does have to change though

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • redraptorredraptor Registered User regular
    TL and SCReddit are going to whipped into such absurd frenzies by two events, the integration of BW players and HotS beta release that it is probably better to just avert your eyes when that eventually happens. Very difficult to imagine the sensationalism of such places actually having legit hard news to deal with.

  • SorCSorC Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    I don't think that Templar need a nerf. Something does have to change though

    Really? I thought Templar were fine? Or do you mean something has to change in terms of their necessity?

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    SorC wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    I don't think that Templar need a nerf. Something does have to change though

    Really? I thought Templar were fine? Or do you mean something has to change in terms of their necessity?

    Something about pvt late game has to change, I mean

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • KambingKambing Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    shwaip wrote: »
    I don't know which of the TL or b.net forum threads about this is more amusing. Both have people saying that the creep change is the end of the world and people saying that the other people are too bad to understand the ramifications of these changes.

    It's hard to say tbh. Bad players won't be able to spread creep past the 2nd tumor. For players with the APM, having that first tumor available a full 30s earlier than you would otherwise is pretty significant in addition to any extra queens dropping two tumors instead of one.

    There is a limit to how many tumors will help spread creep in a single direction (i.e., the creep spreads to the extent of the tumors before the cooldown on the tumor ends), so we may not know what a change like this will do until players develop their APM to the point that they can optimally spread creep lines in 3-4 directions at once while maintaining their macro.

    (I think the fact that queens coming out with transfuses available is a very strong deterrent against air play is a stronger argument than creep spread.)

    Kambing on
    @TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
  • redraptorredraptor Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    If anything it makes the feedback rush viable.

    But seriously Blizzard should talk about this thing more.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3R6ZqVQ3WE&feature=related#t=35m48s

    redraptor on
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    I think Gasless FE into Reactor Hellion will become standard as a result of it. The only advantage of 13 Gas over double 17 Gas is that you can get to their front before the creep can get out of the natural. If you're going to have to patrol the front anyway you might as well get the bonus economy.

  • shwaipshwaip Registered User regular
    I'd actually like to see a change where a queen would actually regen 25 energy in the time it takes to spawn larva. So frustrating to be on top of your injects early game and have to wait to be able to inject because you're at 23 energy. :/

  • KambingKambing Registered User regular
    shwaip wrote: »
    I'd actually like to see a change where a queen would actually regen 25 energy in the time it takes to spawn larva. So frustrating to be on top of your injects early game and have to wait to be able to inject because you're at 23 energy. :/

    Shouldn't bug you too much. The slack's there to so you aren't punished for a 1-2s delay. In effect, it just means your internal timer just needs to be extended that much longer.

    @TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
  • shwaipshwaip Registered User regular
    Kambing wrote: »
    shwaip wrote: »
    I'd actually like to see a change where a queen would actually regen 25 energy in the time it takes to spawn larva. So frustrating to be on top of your injects early game and have to wait to be able to inject because you're at 23 energy. :/

    Shouldn't bug you too much. The slack's there to so you aren't punished for a 1-2s delay. In effect, it just means your internal timer just needs to be extended that much longer.

    Yeah i mean it's a dumb thing and it doesn't really matter after the first few injects because I'm not good enough to hit them on time when shit is going down...but if they're messing with queen energy, it would be nice to have this change.

  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Aspiring Game Designer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Just a thought from a non-Zerg player:

    Instead of starting Queens with more energy, why not start the Zerg player with a free creep tumor near their main hatch? They can start spreading creep out right from the start of the game and have a connected creep highway by the time their expo is done.

    Would that work? Again, I no play Zerg.

    http://www.gamesbygray.com (my website and resume)
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  • KambingKambing Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Just a thought from a non-Zerg player:

    Instead of starting Queens with more energy, why not start the Zerg player with a free creep tumor near their main hatch? They can start spreading creep out right from the start of the game and have a connected creep highway by the time their expo is done.

    Would that work? Again, I no play Zerg.

    That's even worse than the proposed queen change in that zergs will have creep out a lot quicker than with just the proposed energy change.

    @TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
  • shwaipshwaip Registered User regular
    And it doesn't really open up the "save the energy for a transfuse" option.

  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Are 1 base builds even that common vZ? They're the last race I'd try to cheese.

  • SaarutoSaaruto Registered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    Are 1 base builds even that common vZ? They're the last race I'd try to cheese.

    The 1base 4gate robo all-in is sick good in PvZ (aka the Lobber build), especially at the platinum level.

    If you can chill, chill.
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  • shwaipshwaip Registered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    Are 1 base builds even that common vZ? They're the last race I'd try to cheese.

    2 rax is still common enough

  • mEEksamEEksa Registered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    Are 1 base builds even that common vZ? They're the last race I'd try to cheese.

    One base PvZ builds are a lot less common these days, because they'll know something is up the moment you aren't going for a FFE. There's still some good one base TvZ all-ins though.

  • marty_0001marty_0001 Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    marty_0001 wrote: »
    Your heart will forever belong to the void, Dhal.

    In fact I believe there's a void ray quote where your name is mentioned.

    thats a dark templar quote

    Oh I was talking about "Ick'kuda anai", I misheard it as having an L in there but Liquipedia has proven me wrong. (my shakuran is a little rusty)

  • VariableVariable Ted Hitler Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    I like the zerg stuff as long as the queen thing isn't too much. we won't know for a while though.

    I guess toss need obs faster, I guess. I guess.

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  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    There's 11/11 and... Banshee builds?
    4 Transfuses on a Spine Crawler will definitely end 11/11's viability. Can't say I'm too sad about that though, good riddance.

    I wonder how 4 Transfuses will change Hatch first v 14/14 in ZvZ.

  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    Kambing wrote: »
    shwaip wrote: »
    I don't know which of the TL or b.net forum threads about this is more amusing. Both have people saying that the creep change is the end of the world and people saying that the other people are too bad to understand the ramifications of these changes.

    It's hard to say tbh. Bad players won't be able to spread creep past the 2nd tumor. For players with the APM, having that first tumor available a full 30s earlier than you would otherwise is pretty significant in addition to any extra queens dropping two tumors instead of one.

    There is a limit to how many tumors will help spread creep in a single direction (i.e., the creep spreads to the extent of the tumors before the cooldown on the tumor ends), so we may not know what a change like this will do until players develop their APM to the point that they can optimally spread creep lines in 3-4 directions at once while maintaining their macro.

    (I think the fact that queens coming out with transfuses available is a very strong deterrent against air play is a stronger argument than creep spread.)

    i think you're spot on here. if you scout incoming air your emergency queens will be able to transfuse when they pop, really boosting your air defense. not sure if i'd skip a 3rd queen on an FE (or even delay the second), but the anti-air implications are pretty large...

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    So finally zerg wont need hydras at T1 to have good anti-air, right?

    ;)

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    This change would definitely kill a stargate after ffe

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    So finally zerg wont need hydras at T1 to have good anti-air, right?

    ;)

    still need something for air outside of your base... but it is definitey a huge bolster to zerg defenses.

    a 5 queen opening with a couple of spine could hold off a whole lot of all ins...

  • theSquidtheSquid Sydney, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    p
    Variable wrote: »
    I like the zerg stuff as long as the queen thing isn't too much. we won't know for a while though.

    I guess toss need obs faster, I guess. I guess.

    there was a recent day 9 daily that praised huks pvp dt expand. Other guy caught it with 1 gate robo and chronoing like a motherfucker.

    I imagine this will allow some leniency there.

    I had sex with the Ecumenical Patriarch and he infected me with syphilis
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Zerg defensive anti air is already better in early game than the other two races. They don't need to be able to do it all over the map too.

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • shwaipshwaip Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Joe K wrote: »
    Anzekay wrote: »
    So finally zerg wont need hydras at T1 to have good anti-air, right?

    ;)

    still need something for air outside of your base... but it is definitey a huge bolster to zerg defenses.

    a 5 queen opening with a couple of spine could hold off a whole lot of all ins...

    do you actually have replays of losing to air that would be solved by having a t1 aa unit? Just play defensively until you get to t2, and choose your own adventure from there.

    shwaip on
  • fatalspoonsfatalspoons Registered User regular
    queen starting energy up to 50? That is going to change my game immensely. I'm so bad about getting that third queen for creep spread and sometimes don't even spread creep. Nice.

  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    shwaip wrote: »
    Joe K wrote: »
    Anzekay wrote: »
    So finally zerg wont need hydras at T1 to have good anti-air, right?

    ;)

    still need something for air outside of your base... but it is definitey a huge bolster to zerg defenses.

    a 5 queen opening with a couple of spine could hold off a whole lot of all ins...

    do you actually have replays of losing to air that would be solved by having a t1 aa unit? Just play defensively until you get to t2, and choose your own adventure from there.

    out of the several thousands that i have, i'm sure that i do. just statistical probability over a large sample size, nothing special. i'm also sure that it prbly could have been solved other ways. truthfully my biggest gripe about the no tier 1 aa is medivacs. they're out before you get mutas or infestors out (and you're not going to build hydras vT), so there's really no cost effective way to deal with them outside of your base. Although recently, at Bird's insistence, i've found that mass roaches solves the MMM problem pretty damn well.

  • fatalspoonsfatalspoons Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Just a thought from a non-Zerg player:

    Instead of starting Queens with more energy, why not start the Zerg player with a free creep tumor near their main hatch? They can start spreading creep out right from the start of the game and have a connected creep highway by the time their expo is done.

    Would that work? Again, I no play Zerg.

    That could potentially be even stronger than queens starting with 50 energy. Remember, zerg doesn't get a queen until they get a spawning pool. If you do it your way then zerg will have crazy creep spread even before their queen gets out.

  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Joe K wrote: »
    shwaip wrote: »
    Joe K wrote: »
    Anzekay wrote: »
    So finally zerg wont need hydras at T1 to have good anti-air, right?

    ;)

    still need something for air outside of your base... but it is definitey a huge bolster to zerg defenses.

    a 5 queen opening with a couple of spine could hold off a whole lot of all ins...

    do you actually have replays of losing to air that would be solved by having a t1 aa unit? Just play defensively until you get to t2, and choose your own adventure from there.

    out of the several thousands that i have, i'm sure that i do. just statistical probability over a large sample size, nothing special. i'm also sure that it prbly could have been solved other ways. truthfully my biggest gripe about the no tier 1 aa is medivacs. they're out before you get mutas or infestors out (and you're not going to build hydras vT), so there's really no cost effective way to deal with them outside of your base. Although recently, at Bird's insistence, i've found that mass roaches solves the MMM problem pretty damn well.

    The Terran shouldn't have a problematic number of Medivacs before you have your tech. A straight 2 base tech to Medivacs before anything else gets them at like 9 minutes, and is super unsafe against any busts. If he makes it safe with Banshees or Tanks, or gets upgrades before Medivacs they're going to be 2 or 3 minutes later, by which time you'll definitely have a Spire or Infestation Pit done.

  • fatalspoonsfatalspoons Registered User regular
    So i just played the test map. I gotta say, that overlord speed increase could make a very big difference.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Seriously yeah. On paper it doesn't sound too huge, but it's a hefty increase in practise.

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
This discussion has been closed.