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[GW2]Making a new thread for the BWE. See you guys on Aspenwood soon!

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Posts

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Buddies wrote: »
    Caedere wrote: »
    Buddies wrote: »
    I haven't played a MOBA game in a long time, mostly because they are not good for my bloodpressure, but do a good majority of teams still always have a "Carry" hero? When I played them, from DoTA 5.somethingwiththesuperOPGorgon up to HoN's release, every serious team had a Carry/Jungler. A Hero that was pretty bad in the early game and generally on its own, but if aloud to get nice items in late game would output so much DPS that left unchecked would Carry his team to victory. Are there still strategies that revolve around making and protecting these carrys into late game?

    Cause that is what I see these Eviscerate/Greatsword Warrior, Power/Precision Backstab Thief, and Axe&Horn/Greatsword Rangers. They are the carry for your team. They output such ridiculous damage, and your job as their teammate is to make it so they can output that damage. Are they OP? Yea in PUB games, just like in those MOBA games where good players on Carrys could join a random game by themselves and stomp the shit out of the other team. But as part of a team against another team that has their own or knows how to deal with it? I don't know yet, because one of the strategies to deal with a carry hero in LoL is to shut it down early game. In GW2, you can't stop that Eviscerate Warrior from being able to do 20k damage in one hit... he comes equipped with it, so the only strategy left is to CC and focus him down.

    I'm trying to get over the fact that some professions can't be the carry on a team. Hopefully there are multiple viable roles for each profession.

    As far as I know, they do.

    It's interesting to compare the roles in GW2 to ones in MOBA games, especially since a lot of the structured PVP design is designed to mesh with them.

    Hmm. I'm going to have to analyze potential builds in the MOBA light and see how well that goes.

    Eh... I say that there were enough people playing this past BWE to be statistically significant. So I would expect there would be builds that at least hint at what is possible for each class.
    From my experience, and what I have been able to find so far, the engineer and the elementalist have not shown any great potential for a MOBA carry hero like role.

    Why would you expect that? I wouldn't expect almost anyone to have gotten a good handle on the game over the course of only a weekend. Especially given it's differences from standard MMOs.

    If you wanna see what's possible, you need to see people who've been playing for ages. Like the devs. There's a REALLY good Elementalist among the Devs you can see some videos of. He's constant switching attunements and blowing defensive skills making him really hard to pin down or damage.

    There is nothing statistically significant about a weekend test because you don't have a very broad sample. You have a large one, but it's HEAVILY skewed towards people who've never played the game before.


    I also can't figure out why you'd think there would be a "carry" in an MMO. Carries are usually defined by the fact that they only become super powerful once they've leveled up. It's not the same kind of thing in a game like this.

  • SarksusSarksus Registered User regular
    Yeah the way I look at it is that in other MMOs it doesn't matter what you have equipped, you are using the same skills so you aren't unlocking a new set. But in Guild Wars 2 each weapon is an entirely new experience and it makes sense to start from the beginning. Because of this I don't view it as a regression.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Buddies wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Peccavi wrote: »
    doomybear wrote: »
    Okay, so unlocking skills with your weapons works like this (as far as I remember): Each kill is worth a percent of the next skill's "bar." It doesn't matter how tough your enemy is, although it seems like certain things far below your effective level - rats, bunnies, and the like - don't count toward unlocking your skill.

    So, you have 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5, with 1 already unlocked. You need(ed) 5 kills to unlock skill 2, 10 kills to unlock skill 3, 15 for skill 4, 20 for skill 5. I may be a bit inaccurate on these counts.

    In light of this information, the best way to unlock your skills is to play with a group, where multiple mobs are around for you to 'tag' and get credit for killing. AoE-oriented weapons are also easier to unlock.

    Hm, maybe I should have posted this up Friday instead of AFTER the BWE was finished...

    Ah well.

    Yes, the best way to unlock skills has dick all to do with"easing" a player into using a new weapon. Just another stupid carrot to Chase. "But it only takes a few minutes!!!". If it's that pointless, than why is it even in the game???

    Because, purely from my BWE experience, it takes much much longer than "a few minutes" to unlock all the skills of a weapon. Unlocking the full set of skills for dual daggers on my elementalist was a slow process over multiple days and about 4-5 levels. Even just one element's set of skills took at least an hour or two of fighting to unlock.

    Man, what the heck were you doing then?

    I unlocked every weapon for guardian, mesmer, necromancer, thief and engineer before I hit lvl 10. (the last one was pathetically easy with only 4) That's every skill on every weapon. It's really not a big deal. (though as I said before, they should probably speed up unlocks for skills 4 and 5)

    Like someone said, in any other game, you'd be unlocking skills over the course of DAYS. You'd be lvl 60 and unlocking key skills to make your rotation go. That apparently people can't spend 10 minutes unlocking a new weapon because "OMG, systems to ease players into the game are horrible and 'waste' upwards of a quarter of an hour of my game time!" is fucking ludicrous.

    It took me almost about a half hour, or more, to unlock just the first 3 dagger skills on my elementalist.

    What the heck were you people doing then? Is this in WvW only or something? This is completely foreign to my entire experience over the weekend.

    Playing PvE, weapon unlocks came extremely fast, even for single target weapons.

    There was no grinding, I just kept playing the game and killing shit.

    shryke on
  • ArkadyArkady Registered User regular
    Buddies wrote:
    The official forums is also full of people clamoring to get flying mount

    God I fucking wish. There are no mmo's on the market that wouldn't immediately be improved 100% by flying mounts and GW2 is no exception.

    untitled-1.jpg
    LoL: failboattootoot
  • SarksusSarksus Registered User regular
    I don't want mounts, but I would accept flying bases.

    Because flying bases.

  • doomybeardoomybear Hi People Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    What the heck were you people doing then? Is this in WvW only or something? This is completely foreign to my entire experience over the weekend.

    Playing PvE, weapon unlocks came extremely fast, even for single target weapons.

    There was no grinding, I just kept playing the game and killing shit.

    Yes, in WvW it can take a long time to unlock weapon skills, especially if you're starting out just running in there with a low level character (IE without decent equipment, utility skills, etc.)

    That's how I discovered how skill unlocks work. It takes SO LONG to kill a bat or a moa by yourself in the Eternal Battlegrounds with just auto-attacks.

    "Heaven is far away, but hell can be reached in a day." - the fool, from Ran by Kurosawa
  • doomybeardoomybear Hi People Registered User regular
    I think they may implement mounts later. Think of Siege Golems as prototype mounts, and you get an idea of what's possible.

    "Heaven is far away, but hell can be reached in a day." - the fool, from Ran by Kurosawa
  • ArkadyArkady Registered User regular
    Sarksus wrote: »
    I don't want mounts, but I would accept flying bases.

    Because flying bases.

    Give me both. The more shit that flies, the better. The sooner I can own one of those airships they've shown, the better.

    untitled-1.jpg
    LoL: failboattootoot
  • SarksusSarksus Registered User regular
    The bottom line for me is that the time it took to unlock skills was sufficient to allow me to be thoughtful about how I would include this skill into my playstyle while still not taking so long that I was grinding. If other people disagree then that's fine, what they think doesn't impact me at all.

  • SarksusSarksus Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    I do hope ArenaNet applies their magic to player owned housing in an expansion. I need to decorate a house! And a flying base.

    Edit: I will pay $20 for a flying base.

    Sarksus on
  • ArkadyArkady Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    I want to launch gyrocopter strike teams from my airship and anyone who thinks that isn't sweet as hell can just go be a lame dude who walks everywhere like some sort of chump.

    Edit: I would pay 20 bucks for a flying base and another 10 for an elite skill that summons asura flying gyrocopters to bombard an area and also bring me a gyrocopter to fly around in.

    edit 2: and 10 more if we can play beach volleyball after.

    edit 3: What I am saying is that I am not good with money.

    Arkady on
    untitled-1.jpg
    LoL: failboattootoot
  • BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    shryke wrote: »
    Buddies wrote: »
    Caedere wrote: »
    Buddies wrote: »
    I haven't played a MOBA game in a long time, mostly because they are not good for my bloodpressure, but do a good majority of teams still always have a "Carry" hero? When I played them, from DoTA 5.somethingwiththesuperOPGorgon up to HoN's release, every serious team had a Carry/Jungler. A Hero that was pretty bad in the early game and generally on its own, but if aloud to get nice items in late game would output so much DPS that left unchecked would Carry his team to victory. Are there still strategies that revolve around making and protecting these carrys into late game?

    Cause that is what I see these Eviscerate/Greatsword Warrior, Power/Precision Backstab Thief, and Axe&Horn/Greatsword Rangers. They are the carry for your team. They output such ridiculous damage, and your job as their teammate is to make it so they can output that damage. Are they OP? Yea in PUB games, just like in those MOBA games where good players on Carrys could join a random game by themselves and stomp the shit out of the other team. But as part of a team against another team that has their own or knows how to deal with it? I don't know yet, because one of the strategies to deal with a carry hero in LoL is to shut it down early game. In GW2, you can't stop that Eviscerate Warrior from being able to do 20k damage in one hit... he comes equipped with it, so the only strategy left is to CC and focus him down.

    I'm trying to get over the fact that some professions can't be the carry on a team. Hopefully there are multiple viable roles for each profession.

    As far as I know, they do.

    It's interesting to compare the roles in GW2 to ones in MOBA games, especially since a lot of the structured PVP design is designed to mesh with them.

    Hmm. I'm going to have to analyze potential builds in the MOBA light and see how well that goes.

    Eh... I say that there were enough people playing this past BWE to be statistically significant. So I would expect there would be builds that at least hint at what is possible for each class.
    From my experience, and what I have been able to find so far, the engineer and the elementalist have not shown any great potential for a MOBA carry hero like role.

    Why would you expect that? I wouldn't expect almost anyone to have gotten a good handle on the game over the course of only a weekend. Especially given it's differences from standard MMOs.

    If you wanna see what's possible, you need to see people who've been playing for ages. Like the devs. There's a REALLY good Elementalist among the Devs you can see some videos of. He's constant switching attunements and blowing defensive skills making him really hard to pin down or damage.

    There is nothing statistically significant about a weekend test because you don't have a very broad sample. You have a large one, but it's HEAVILY skewed towards people who've never played the game before.


    I also can't figure out why you'd think there would be a "carry" in an MMO. Carries are usually defined by the fact that they only become super powerful once they've leveled up. It's not the same kind of thing in a game like this.

    Are you a power gamer? Or do you have experience with power gamers? It doesn't take years for people to start cracking eggs and finding out what is possible. Granted, there may be some really strange way some skills/traits and abilities work together that create a very powerful attack. But some might consider that a bug or exploit of game mechanics. There were thousands of people playing over the weekend actively looking for most powerful builds. Stacking skills, traits, buffs, and gear to see what is possible in each class. What is the max damage my character can do? How much health can I get? How can I build my character to lock people down? How can I kill people the fastest way possible. How can I live forever?

    And there are plenty of builds that emerged from that, for each profession. And from what I've seen, still today, some professions are capable of so much more than others in certain areas. Like in my last post how the hardest I've seen an elementist hit for is 6.5k, but I've seen a screenshot of a 20k eviscerate from a warrior. That is a huge gap in damage, and the gap stayed there or got worse when people started to tweak the builds as the elementalist started critting for 2k and the warrior is critting for 12k+.

    The other example would be asking you the question "Which professions did you find the hardest to kill?" Most peoples answers were "Necromancer" or "Guardian". For good reason, they were often built to be extremely hard to kill. Warriors also have builds like that I found out with the one I briefly played. But it was severely lacking in other tools that the necro(damage) or guardian(support) wasn't, so they aren't notable.

    What is the developers name btw? I'd like to see his videos, got a link to any?

    Buddies on
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    shryke wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Peccavi wrote: »
    doomybear wrote: »
    Okay, so unlocking skills with your weapons works like this (as far as I remember): Each kill is worth a percent of the next skill's "bar." It doesn't matter how tough your enemy is, although it seems like certain things far below your effective level - rats, bunnies, and the like - don't count toward unlocking your skill.

    So, you have 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5, with 1 already unlocked. You need(ed) 5 kills to unlock skill 2, 10 kills to unlock skill 3, 15 for skill 4, 20 for skill 5. I may be a bit inaccurate on these counts.

    In light of this information, the best way to unlock your skills is to play with a group, where multiple mobs are around for you to 'tag' and get credit for killing. AoE-oriented weapons are also easier to unlock.

    Hm, maybe I should have posted this up Friday instead of AFTER the BWE was finished...

    Ah well.

    Yes, the best way to unlock skills has dick all to do with"easing" a player into using a new weapon. Just another stupid carrot to Chase. "But it only takes a few minutes!!!". If it's that pointless, than why is it even in the game???

    Because, purely from my BWE experience, it takes much much longer than "a few minutes" to unlock all the skills of a weapon. Unlocking the full set of skills for dual daggers on my elementalist was a slow process over multiple days and about 4-5 levels. Even just one element's set of skills took at least an hour or two of fighting to unlock.

    Man, what the heck were you doing then?

    I unlocked every weapon for guardian, mesmer, necromancer, thief and engineer before I hit lvl 10. (the last one was pathetically easy with only 4) That's every skill on every weapon. It's really not a big deal. (though as I said before, they should probably speed up unlocks for skills 4 and 5)

    Like someone said, in any other game, you'd be unlocking skills over the course of DAYS. You'd be lvl 60 and unlocking key skills to make your rotation go. That apparently people can't spend 10 minutes unlocking a new weapon because "OMG, systems to ease players into the game are horrible and 'waste' upwards of a quarter of an hour of my game time!" is fucking ludicrous.

    Mostly I worked my way through Staff and Scepter/foci unlocks from levels 1-10, and didn't try to unlock double dagger skills until level 10. Then from level 10-15 I started unlocking the skills for all of the elements on that. I wasn't going out of my way to unlock any of them either, I was doing it as a natural part of playing the game. I figure that's the absolute best way to test it because that's how most new people are going to approach it. As I've said before, they don't need to focus test the ability of players who have been following the game to pick up on the mechanics, they've already studied it from afar for a long time. The real focus testing needs to be "How will someone completely new to GW2 react to the game?". I didn't pick up a second dagger and go "whelp, time to kill 20 rats now", I said "I wonder if these skills are any good" and proceeded to waggle my daggers inside a few hundred ghosts and harpies.
    The people who come in brand new to the game aren't going to try to figure it out by killing rats, they're going to look at it as a sort of downgrade for a while until they unlock it normally. It's that carrot/stick thing of "yeah, I could go back and kill some really weak things to get those unlocks, but there's that really awesome place over there I want to check out". Given the option people, who may not even be aware of exactly how the skills unlocked, are probably either going to go off adventuring anyways or just stick to the weapons they have unlocked already.

    Hrm, I just thought of something actually.
    @World as Myth , as I'm too late for the suggestions forum, is there a plan to include a sort of encyclopedia of terms and mechanics in the game? GW1 and a few other games had elements of that, but I didn't see anything that popped out at me as a database of game knowledge when playing beta, I might have just missed it though.

    Dedwrekka on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    He pops up in this game informer video from a few weeks back: http://www.gameinformer.com/games/guild_wars_2/b/pc/archive/2012/04/13/guild-wars-2-video-preview.aspx

    Towards the end when they start PvPing.


    And yes, people were desperately trying to find power builds and such, but there's no way they even touched on most of them over the course of only 3 days when most had never played the game before. Even the Devs commented on people not adequately using defensive abilities and skills over the weekend. And then there's the meta-game that hasn't even started, as builds are countered by other builds, which are countered by other builds and so on. The idea that players have gained anything more then a surface understanding of the builds available and their strengths is just not credible.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    doomybear wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    What the heck were you people doing then? Is this in WvW only or something? This is completely foreign to my entire experience over the weekend.

    Playing PvE, weapon unlocks came extremely fast, even for single target weapons.

    There was no grinding, I just kept playing the game and killing shit.

    Yes, in WvW it can take a long time to unlock weapon skills, especially if you're starting out just running in there with a low level character (IE without decent equipment, utility skills, etc.)

    That's how I discovered how skill unlocks work. It takes SO LONG to kill a bat or a moa by yourself in the Eternal Battlegrounds with just auto-attacks.

    This might be it then. In PvE, it's a matter of minutes for weapon unlocks. Maybe there's less frequent kills in WvWvW or something. They might need to make weapons skills unlock slightly differently in WvWvW (like make them unlock via X damage against an enemy player, rather then just on kill)

  • BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    He pops up in this game informer video from a few weeks back: http://www.gameinformer.com/games/guild_wars_2/b/pc/archive/2012/04/13/guild-wars-2-video-preview.aspx

    Towards the end when they start PvPing.


    And yes, people were desperately trying to find power builds and such, but there's no way they even touched on most of them over the course of only 3 days when most had never played the game before. Even the Devs commented on people not adequately using defensive abilities and skills over the weekend. And then there's the meta-game that hasn't even started, as builds are countered by other builds, which are countered by other builds and so on. The idea that players have gained anything more then a surface understanding of the builds available and their strengths is just not credible.

    Only time will tell, but I disagree. Unless I am mistaken the match making system was in effect if you hit the "Play Now" button. So all the people that just sPvPed the entire weekend started to face eachother a lot. And since they are super competitive people they were constantly tweaking their builds to beat eachother. So the counter-builds were being built upon. My friends and I were doing it to eachother, and we are nowhere near as competitive as some of these people putting together eSport teams that played all weekend.

    What we didn't get to see, which will change the way builds are made, is static teams playing together. I don't know if we will see the ability to play on the same team as your friends 100% of the time.

  • BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    doomybear wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    What the heck were you people doing then? Is this in WvW only or something? This is completely foreign to my entire experience over the weekend.

    Playing PvE, weapon unlocks came extremely fast, even for single target weapons.

    There was no grinding, I just kept playing the game and killing shit.

    Yes, in WvW it can take a long time to unlock weapon skills, especially if you're starting out just running in there with a low level character (IE without decent equipment, utility skills, etc.)

    That's how I discovered how skill unlocks work. It takes SO LONG to kill a bat or a moa by yourself in the Eternal Battlegrounds with just auto-attacks.

    This might be it then. In PvE, it's a matter of minutes for weapon unlocks. Maybe there's less frequent kills in WvWvW or something. They might need to make weapons skills unlock slightly differently in WvWvW (like make them unlock via X damage against an enemy player, rather then just on kill)

    Yea, this makes a lot of sense, because the weapon unlocks go off a per kill basis. I think the 5th skill goes up 7% each time you kill something? and killing those level 80 wolves/moas/bears did take a long time with level 17 items, hahaha.

  • override367override367 misogynist/MRA/socially irresponsible Registered User regular
    Buddies wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    He pops up in this game informer video from a few weeks back: http://www.gameinformer.com/games/guild_wars_2/b/pc/archive/2012/04/13/guild-wars-2-video-preview.aspx

    Towards the end when they start PvPing.


    And yes, people were desperately trying to find power builds and such, but there's no way they even touched on most of them over the course of only 3 days when most had never played the game before. Even the Devs commented on people not adequately using defensive abilities and skills over the weekend. And then there's the meta-game that hasn't even started, as builds are countered by other builds, which are countered by other builds and so on. The idea that players have gained anything more then a surface understanding of the builds available and their strengths is just not credible.

    Only time will tell, but I disagree. Unless I am mistaken the match making system was in effect if you hit the "Play Now" button. So all the people that just sPvPed the entire weekend started to face eachother a lot. And since they are super competitive people they were constantly tweaking their builds to beat eachother. So the counter-builds were being built upon. My friends and I were doing it to eachother, and we are nowhere near as competitive as some of these people putting together eSport teams that played all weekend.

    What we didn't get to see, which will change the way builds are made, is static teams playing together. I don't know if we will see the ability to play on the same team as your friends 100% of the time.

    Uhhh, it takes months for tactics to get hammered down in a typical MMO. Even esports level players are constantly evolving their strats against other matchups in games years after they come out.

    XBLIVE: Biggestoverride
    League of Legends: override367
  • Ragnar DragonfyreRagnar Dragonfyre Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Arkady wrote: »
    Buddies wrote:
    The official forums is also full of people clamoring to get flying mount

    God I fucking wish. There are no mmo's on the market that wouldn't immediately be improved 100% by flying mounts and GW2 is no exception.

    Wut? Flying mounts RUINED World PvP in WoW. Flying was essentially Blizzard's way of putting in a PvP switch without physically putting in a PvP On/Off button on the hotbar.

    Did anyone here play Shadowbane? Flying ruined that game too. Entire armies flew over enemy walls in minutes, that took weeks to build, completely trivializing most city defenses. It was stupid.

    The last thing GW2 needs is flying.

    Ragnar Dragonfyre on
    steam_sig.png
  • TopiaTopia Registered User regular
    Mounts are terrible. They ruin immersion and the environment ANET has painstakingly crafted for us to traverse. You already have fast travel, so fuck off with the mounts. If they implement mounts I'll probably quit playing. Yes I said it, mounts ruin MMO's, and flying is worse.

  • SarksusSarksus Registered User regular
    I don't like mounts either but I'm not inclined to tell people to fuck off because of them.

  • Ragnar DragonfyreRagnar Dragonfyre Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Topia wrote: »
    Mounts are terrible. They ruin immersion and the environment ANET has painstakingly crafted for us to traverse. You already have fast travel, so fuck off with the mounts. If they implement mounts I'll probably quit playing. Yes I said it, mounts ruin MMO's, and flying is worse.

    While I will advocate against flying till I'm blue in the face, I disagree that mounts in general ruin MMOs. Riding horses is kind of a staple in fantasy universes... So I'm somewhat confused how they can ruin immersion.

    UO had the best mount implementation. Player tamed, stealable and once dead, they're gone. It made mounts valuable because there was always demand for new ones. It also made it so not everyone rode mounts everywhere, all the time, because they were so easily killed. Sometimes you'd forgo the mount because odds were you were going to lose it on your next adventure.

    Mounts are fine if implemented properly. Flying mounts however will ALWAYS break the game in some way.

    Ragnar Dragonfyre on
    steam_sig.png
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Flying mounts are counter to the entire design of GW2. You can't run into events as you explore if you are flying above the world.

    The world is also, I'm betting, designed like WoW's where adding any sort of flying would require a complete redo since most of the areas aren't designed to be seen from above.

  • DraygoDraygo Registered User regular
    Buddies wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    doomybear wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    What the heck were you people doing then? Is this in WvW only or something? This is completely foreign to my entire experience over the weekend.

    Playing PvE, weapon unlocks came extremely fast, even for single target weapons.

    There was no grinding, I just kept playing the game and killing shit.

    Yes, in WvW it can take a long time to unlock weapon skills, especially if you're starting out just running in there with a low level character (IE without decent equipment, utility skills, etc.)

    That's how I discovered how skill unlocks work. It takes SO LONG to kill a bat or a moa by yourself in the Eternal Battlegrounds with just auto-attacks.

    This might be it then. In PvE, it's a matter of minutes for weapon unlocks. Maybe there's less frequent kills in WvWvW or something. They might need to make weapons skills unlock slightly differently in WvWvW (like make them unlock via X damage against an enemy player, rather then just on kill)

    Yea, this makes a lot of sense, because the weapon unlocks go off a per kill basis. I think the 5th skill goes up 7% each time you kill something? and killing those level 80 wolves/moas/bears did take a long time with level 17 items, hahaha.

    Yeah i think its mostly WvW weapon leveling vs PvE leveling your weapon.

    PvE goes super fast. I was 100% weapon unlocked before level 5, except underwater weapons.

    @buddies also there is a carry engineer build already:

  • BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    Buddies wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    He pops up in this game informer video from a few weeks back: http://www.gameinformer.com/games/guild_wars_2/b/pc/archive/2012/04/13/guild-wars-2-video-preview.aspx

    Towards the end when they start PvPing.


    And yes, people were desperately trying to find power builds and such, but there's no way they even touched on most of them over the course of only 3 days when most had never played the game before. Even the Devs commented on people not adequately using defensive abilities and skills over the weekend. And then there's the meta-game that hasn't even started, as builds are countered by other builds, which are countered by other builds and so on. The idea that players have gained anything more then a surface understanding of the builds available and their strengths is just not credible.

    Only time will tell, but I disagree. Unless I am mistaken the match making system was in effect if you hit the "Play Now" button. So all the people that just sPvPed the entire weekend started to face eachother a lot. And since they are super competitive people they were constantly tweaking their builds to beat eachother. So the counter-builds were being built upon. My friends and I were doing it to eachother, and we are nowhere near as competitive as some of these people putting together eSport teams that played all weekend.

    What we didn't get to see, which will change the way builds are made, is static teams playing together. I don't know if we will see the ability to play on the same team as your friends 100% of the time.

    Uhhh, it takes months for tactics to get hammered down in a typical MMO. Even esports level players are constantly evolving their strats against other matchups in games years after they come out.

    So they can't start evolving in a 3 day beta weekend?

    Why are you guys arguing with me anyway? If you don't care to talk about what classes and builds performed the best over the beta weekend, then don't. That's cool that you think the game will be so different in three months that it isn't worth discussing right now. But I think it is, and plenty of other people may too. It's why people spend so much time on the GW2 Build creator. People may post one of their builds they were thinking about asking for critiques, and we can say "Yea, it looks good" or "Yea, I used it this past weekend and did very well with it. I would make these changes though." or "Nah, I tried that build and it didn't turn out so hot."

    I think there is value in that, but you guys make it sound like it's all pointless because it's going to change anyway.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    It can start evolving, we are saying it's not going to be very robust or very indicative of available builds in the game.

    Basically, you can't say "X class can't do heavy damage" just because you may not have figured out how yet.

    shryke on
  • BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Draygo wrote: »
    Buddies wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    doomybear wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    What the heck were you people doing then? Is this in WvW only or something? This is completely foreign to my entire experience over the weekend.

    Playing PvE, weapon unlocks came extremely fast, even for single target weapons.

    There was no grinding, I just kept playing the game and killing shit.

    Yes, in WvW it can take a long time to unlock weapon skills, especially if you're starting out just running in there with a low level character (IE without decent equipment, utility skills, etc.)

    That's how I discovered how skill unlocks work. It takes SO LONG to kill a bat or a moa by yourself in the Eternal Battlegrounds with just auto-attacks.

    This might be it then. In PvE, it's a matter of minutes for weapon unlocks. Maybe there's less frequent kills in WvWvW or something. They might need to make weapons skills unlock slightly differently in WvWvW (like make them unlock via X damage against an enemy player, rather then just on kill)

    Yea, this makes a lot of sense, because the weapon unlocks go off a per kill basis. I think the 5th skill goes up 7% each time you kill something? and killing those level 80 wolves/moas/bears did take a long time with level 17 items, hahaha.

    Yeah i think its mostly WvW weapon leveling vs PvE leveling your weapon.

    PvE goes super fast. I was 100% weapon unlocked before level 5, except underwater weapons.

    @buddies also there is a carry engineer build already:

    Not a carry build, that is a support build IMO. It utilizes a lot of blinds and knockdowns. His damage is pitiful compared to these carry builds warrior, thief, ranger. Actually look at the damage he is doing in that engineer video, not his commentary. The highest damage attack is 900.... One of his conditions does some respectable damage, ticking for 629 a second I believe. But thats it. As I pointed out earlier, he didn't 1v4 those people at the start, there was at least 1 Ranger there supporting him. And two of the enemies ran off, and one came back after 2 of his friends were already dead.

    Edit: The guy playing is really good though. I think that build will be a lot better if/when aNet tweaks the engineers damage and kits.

    Edit 2: I'll also compare his build vs the ones that I think are much more viable. First off the Warrior. It just does a shit ton more damage, and his defensive mechanic is invulnerability at 25% health vs the Engineers decent heal and condition removal. Warrior Build also has 50% more health.

    The Thief sacrifices a LOT of health and survivability to be able to do the damage he does in that video. He uses positioning and is very smart about when to engage and always gets out if he even senses people are going to target him. Has the same squishy 12k health.

    The Ranger outputs more DPS faster and has 2 defensive abilities that make him immune to damage for up to 10 seconds. He also has 50% more health

    His blinds and stuns are very helpful to his team though, and the professions is better built for that role.

    Buddies on
  • naengwennaengwen Registered User regular
    Sarksus wrote: »
    I don't like mounts either but I'm not inclined to tell people to fuck off because of them.

    Right. I'll make it simple: mounts, flying mounts, and flying in general, that shit would be freaking awesome. But not in the way MMOs generally do it. I don't want a flying mount because it's a faster way to get from X to Y; we already have a way to do that instantly, and if you're gonna cry because your 400% speed buff would cut your 2 minute commute down to 30 seconds, then cry some more. I want a flying mount because flying around is goddamned awesome. Don't use it to address a design flaw in your world design, freaking build on that shit. Get some aerial combat all up-ins, for starters. Don't let players just pop it up in the middle of nowhere whenever they want, the buildup is just as important. Don't make it readily available everywhere; shit's not necessary, and in some cases would just not make any sense except in a video game. Giving us a button to break immersion at will is not good game design.

    DO give us war wagon racing challenges, colossal tank battles, airship pirate fights, and WvWvW aerial raids (with a feasible anti-air counter, of course). Make events out of them. Make encounters out of them. Make a fucking zone out of them, if you want. Just don't make it boring.

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  • doomybeardoomybear Hi People Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Regarding mounts, I think they could be implemented successfully, but only on a very limited, considered basis. If I were to put them in this game...hm...

    I'd say there are three ways I might implement mounts. One is in instanced areas, which is probably where I would test it first. The next would be limited to the area of a dynamic event for whatever purposes (Needs to stay in range of an asuran power crystal, maybe it's a horse race, or something). The last place - and about the only place where it could feasibly make sense to have - is WvW. Mounts would function like modified Siege Golems - they'd cost supply and recipes, and instead of being durable and slow, they would be quick and no more durable than a medium armored player (skill sets would also change, also, land only in WvW).

    Just theory-crafting for a game that I'm not developing, though.

    Edit: Aerial battle is another complication altogether, although underwater fighting has set pretty decent precedent for what kinds of gameplay ArenaNet is capable of innovating.

    doomybear on
    "Heaven is far away, but hell can be reached in a day." - the fool, from Ran by Kurosawa
  • MadpoetMadpoet Registered User regular
    Flying mounts don't really seem like they'd fit the game as is, but I've always wanted someone else to put out something like Jump To Lightspeed, and the GW model is a good one for it.

  • VoroVoro Registered User regular
    Ground mounts would be awesome, and we could finally have good mounted combat in a MMO thanks to weapon set dependent skills. I don't think they'd be good for WvWvW unless they moved at the same rate and unmounted players, but I'd love to ride into battle and lance some fucking centaurs in the face.

    XBL GamerTag: Comrade Nexus
  • HugglesHuggles Cinnabar is very toxic Not very huggableRegistered User regular
    As someone who has never been much interested in MMOs before this, can anyone explain to me the appeal of mounts, let alone flying mounts?

    Minecraft: Ginjinngear | Steam
  • VoroVoro Registered User regular
    Huggles wrote: »
    As someone who has never been much interested in MMOs before this, can anyone explain to me the appeal of mounts, let alone flying mounts?

    Go play Mount & Blade, preferably Warband, definitely not Fire & Sword. Mounts are awesome and very medieval / sword & sorcery appropriate. As for MMOs...usually it's a travel time thing, then players ask for mounted combat, and then devs stall for time and sweep it under the rug because "animations." Meanwhile, it's entirely appropriate for an enemy two levels below to swing as you ride by, hit you, and *poof* your mount disappears.

    For flying mounts, most people use it to point themselves in the direction of where they want to go, hit auto-run, and then go make food/bathroom break/alt-tab to porn. A few people use it to visit awesome sites in the world or explore without pulling packs of enemies.

    XBL GamerTag: Comrade Nexus
  • PaiPai Ghost in the Machine Registered User
    naengwen wrote: »
    airship pirate fights

    Holy gawd, my brain would not be able to take how much more awesome airship pirates would make GW2 (a game already stuffed to the limit with awesome as it is).

    ...I've been feeling kind of grumpy since the weekend and I just realized it's because of GW2 withdrawals. =/

  • YougottawannaYougottawanna Registered User regular
    Yeah, not being able to play the game anymore has made me realize how much I liked playing the game.

    I've got a thief build that's burning a hole in my browser right now.

  • VivixenneVivixenne aDAWRable! Registered User regular
    doomybear wrote: »
    I think they may implement mounts later. Think of Siege Golems as prototype mounts, and you get an idea of what's possible.
    I don't want or need a mount in this game, particularly because it encourages exploration and with cheap, quick-travel waypoints you don't need mounts ANYWAY.

    That said, if there WERE to be mounts, I like the idea of mounts being race-based, kinda like WoW. Where the Asura can ride golems, the Charr can ride I dunno one of the Siege Devourers or even something like the Armored Saurus from EotN, the Norn ride bears, etc etc.

  • VivixenneVivixenne aDAWRable! Registered User regular
    Sarksus wrote: »
    The bottom line for me is that the time it took to unlock skills was sufficient to allow me to be thoughtful about how I would include this skill into my playstyle while still not taking so long that I was grinding. If other people disagree then that's fine, what they think doesn't impact me at all.

    I enjoy the unlocking system because it means I'm only learning one new skill at a time. By the time I've unlocked the 5th skill, I'm super familiar with the previous 4 and how they potentially gel together, which means I also have a good idea of how the weapon is useful in what situations.

  • tehkensaitehkensai Registered User regular
    Flying is a terrible idea. I played shadowbane, and that statement is correct-flying made everything quite trivial.

    Unless, of course, you did what my guild did, and build walls directly around the world tree and watch as people get stuck in the branches and die by archer fire. Woot. If you designed a good enough counter too it I wouldnt be completely adverse to it. Air dropping into something is always fun.

    Flying really trivializes the environments that they have at the moment, and I'd argue it did in WoW, too. Made that world feel less whole.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Flying is the worst thing to happen to WoW and the Devs are constantly trying to figure out some way to put everything back in pandora's box. I think they'd just scrap it all together if they thought they could get away with it.

  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Flying is the worst thing to happen to WoW

    Not even on the top 10.

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