[WH40k] 6th Edition Incoming. Hide your women and children!

Stragint · May 2012

So I'm have zero luck on barter town with selling my Necrons and I decided to abandon my hope of selling the whole thing all at once.

I'd really like to sell them off and I'll be able to take pictures today or tomorrow so anyone who wants to buy some Necron stuff, send me a private message. I've never sold 40K stuff before so work with me so I can make a reasonable price and such. I live in Arizona so keep that in mind for shipping.

Spoiler:

Anon the Felon · May 2012

Nax wrote: »

...I'd like to read that reaction though... Some crazy fucking High Lord declaring war on the Wolves.... then Dante, Calgar, and Tu'Shan show up and they're all, "Wait, what? No."

I think you forgot one awesome part of that: Helbrecht arriving with his crusade fleet. Easily out numbering all the other chapters in orbit...combined. He'd teleport on down to the high lords and wrap his arms around the shoulders of Dante and Tu'Shan. With a big smile he'd say "I hear you want to attack our friends the Space Wolves. Hows about you rethink that idea?" Meanwhile hundreds of other Templar ships drop out of the warp into Terran orbit.

TheLawinator · May 2012

Black Templars best chapter for pure fuckin shit up. Also definitely not heretics.

Echo · May 2012

Nax wrote: »

BA were fighting some Necrons. Battling it out and killing each other like you'd expect. Tyranid's show up. BA and Necrons look at the new threat and say to themselves, "Well fuck.... That is a much bigger threat!" so they each individually start fighting the Tyranids. The Tyranids are defeated. The Necron leader was one of the ones that still adheres to the old ways and the rules of honourable combat, etc. The Blood Angels realized that they sustained heavy, heavy losses, and they could not continue the fight against the Necrons with the reduced troop strength, so each side let the other go on its way.

The internet interprets that as them being best buds now.

They did exactly this with the Tau too!

Except for the part where they harvested the Tau after wiping the Tyranids out.

tzeentchling · May 2012

Nax wrote: »

Well, the thing is this: The Inquisition can't really do shit to the Adeptus Astartes. The Astartes tolerate them because they respect the fact that the Emperor left the High Lords in charge, and the High Lords trust the Inquisition. As soon as the Inquisition step on the toes of the Astartes and don't back down, the Astartes will wipe them out.

They went after the Wolves and the Wolves destroyed their fleet. They backed off. I have zero doubt in my mind that if they had sent another fleet, Grimnar would have gone on a full scale offensive. I also have no doubt that it could have caused another civil war. This is why the only thing I hope is true from that rumors list is the fact that the Astartes are finally going to stop putting up with Terra's shit.

Depends on the Astartes chapter. Any of the major, founding legions are arguably far too strong and secure in any case, but are severely less likely to turn to Chaos. Now, the lesser chapters? They still have to be on their toes. Look at the Relictors, for instance, or any of the Badab War chapters, notably the Lamenters. The Inquisition came down pretty hard on them, but they never do it by themselves. In addition to the Inquisitorial fleets, they draft IG and other SM chapters.

Basically, the last thing Terra/the Inquisition wants is another Horus Heresy. Hence the geneseed tithes and Inqusitorial powers and such. Logan Grimnar might not give a f**k, but he never has. The other chapters tend to be more, if not compliant, then at least willing to go along, because they don't want another Heresy either. The last big chapter that stopped putting up with Terra's s**t? Astral Claws. Remind me how well that went.

SJ · May 2012

Black Templar are the most metal of all chapters fuck yeah

e: I'm just gonna start quotin' here

So given all these rumors I figured it was finally time that I reveal the rumors that MY source has given me. The guy's totally trustworthy and has an inside line into the GW design studio. He said that given all the misinformation out there it was time to clarify what was going on with 6th edition. Now some of this stuff might be slightly off in order to protect my source's sources, but he's always been right in the past.

A lot of the devs have been saying that 6th Edition will be a "throwback" edition, with a lot of elements from 2nd edition merged with some modern gameplay elements that we've seen from the last two decades of development.

Now the phases are Movement, Action, and Recovery. Assaults and shooting will be done simultaneously in the action phase. Recovery phase is for doing morale checks.

Units moving in the Movement phase have a standard value (no die rolling). Difficult terrain cuts your movement in half, but only for the portion of your movement that goes through that terrain.

So the Action Phase is where the majority of the game takes place. The active player gets to allow each unit to perform a single action, like shoot or charge or use a psychic power.

Every unit affected by a given action will have a chance to respond to that action if they pass an initiative test. For example a unit being shot at could choose to return fire or take cover. A unit being assaulted could counter-charge, stand and shoot, or retreat to try and get out of assault range.

Xeno and other armies will have a bonus to certain reactions. For example orks have terrible initiative and will routinely fail to stand and shoot or take cover, but have a bonus to initiative checks to do things like return fire or counter-assault. Different Space Marine chapters have bonuses and penalties. Good luck getting Black Templar to take cover!

There is a major change with regards to armor and invulnerable saves. Armor save modifiers are back! Cover provides either a +1 or +2 bonus based on hard or soft cover (hello 2nd edition!) but can be ignored by template weapons like flamers. Weapons have modifiers based on strength and other factors.

Randomness has been incorporated into assault moves, but it's not that bad. Charge range is base movement + 1d6 to represent running at the enemy.

Another big change in assault: Fearless wounds are gone! Instead the opposing side gets a free attack for every point the fearless side lost by.

Casualties are now handled differently. Wound allocation shenanigans are gone! Whole models must be removed as much as possible. Normally players dictate what models are removed except for certain circumstances like a Vindicare or other special effects. Wound balances are carried within the unit as opposed to a specific model, so no hiding a wound on a Nob and then conveniently forgetting about it later.

To mitigate the effect of things like hidden power fists Independent characters can attack specific models in CC.

Units have another reason to fear flamers; assault weapons can now be fired from a vehicle regardless of how far they moved. This makes the Land Raider Redeemer pretty devastating.

Some of the biggest changes have been to the philosophy being applied to this edition. GW is really trying to appeal to both the casual and competitive gamer. For the tournament player the rules set is really tight and streamlined. The mantra we've been hearing is "simple rules, complex gameplay." For the casual player GW put a LOT of effort into making an AWESOME campaign system with an amazing mission generator. Things like allies and purchasing strategic elements are part of the campaign system.

So yeah, that's what my exclusive insider GW source has told me. What have you guys heard from YOUR sources?

Salvation122 · May 2012

Matrias wrote: »

I'd be inclined to believe the allies rumour because it is a solution to GW's problem. And by problem, I mean "How do we sell even more models?"

It also fixes their "this codex fucking sucks" problem, because they can say "well just take good units from another book."

Never mind the fact that that makes certain combinations completely fucking retarded. Like, say, heavy weapons platoons with a Sanguinary Priest and Blood Angels Librarian hanging around in the vicinity handing out FNP and Shield of Sanguinius.

Mr_Rose · May 2012

See, the problem I have with much of those is simply logistical, based mostly on the assumption that they want existing codices to remain valid to the same extent as existing 7e WFB army books remained valid in 8e and frankly a large chunk of that list is incompatible with that aim. Specifically, the reaction stuff and the racial modifiers for that, and how that will affect certain special rules and wargear.
OTOH, it does finally begin to explain the "hunters from hyperspace" rule, so….

SJ · May 2012

Uhm, other than the modifiers thing I don't see a single part of that that is actually incompatible with anything. And that's the kind of thing that you can put in a healthy errata, like 8th ed.

mr_mich · May 2012

6th Edition might get me into 40k again if some of these rumors are true. Pending sandbags.

Dr_Keenbean · May 2012

I hate random charge distances. Not for any gameplay reason, but the idea of this 'RRRRAWWWWWWRRRRRRR' charge where they just go 'fuck it, nevermind.' after a few inches is fucking stupid.

Halos Nach Tariff · May 2012

[*] So the Action Phase is where the majority of the game takes place. The active player gets to allow each unit to perform a single action, like shoot or charge or use a psychic power.

This kinda makes Tyranids much less dangerous, well assault weapons in general I guess, but I only care about Tyranids.

Speaking of 'nids what do you think of this list, not for being particularly competitive, but at least playable:

-HQ
-Tervigon (Catalyst, Toxin Sacs)
-Tervigon (Catalyst, Toxin Sacs)

-Elites
-2x Hive Guard
-2x Hive Guard
-5x Ymgarl Genestealers

-Troops
-12x Genestealers
-12x Genestealers

-Heavy Support
-Tyrannofex (Rupture Cannon)
-Tyrannofex (Rupture Cannon)

Comes to 1751 points unfortunately but hopefully most people won't mind, and if they do I can just drop a genestealer or two, maybe add adrenal glands to the Tervigons.

Anyway general strategy is to throw out some gaunts in front of the 'stealers as a screen. Put FnP on either the TFex's, Tervigons or Stealers depending on the weaponry in range. Tfexs can advance sideways to provide cover to basically everything, everything stomps up the board, Hive Guard and Tyrannofex try to take out armour on the way. Stealers can split off when needs be to get the drop on infantry. The Ymgarls are there to tie up backfield heavy weapons, or artillery if necessary.

Obviously I'd prefer more genestealers, and I'd love to be able to squeeze some Venomthropes in there, but alas the points costs and FoC are not on my side.

Matrias · May 2012

the fluff Nax is talking about on page 4 makes me wish for a Space Marine security council with Grimnar, Dante, and Calgar.

All the Chapters operating under a loose alliance, interfering with the High Lords wherever they wished... Could be pretty cool. Plus that lovely irony that the High Lords split up the Space Marines to neuter them and then united them together again accidentally.

TheLawinator · May 2012

Dr_Keenbean wrote: »

I hate random charge distances. Not for any gameplay reason, but the idea of this 'RRRRAWWWWWWRRRRRRR' charge where they just go 'fuck it, nevermind.' after a few inches is fucking stupid.

Yea, but if it's 6 inches +d6 you can act like nothing changed!

Gumpy · May 2012

We getting any new interesting 40k armies soon or was Tau the last big thing

SJ · May 2012

the last thing we need is more armies to be left un-updated for a decade

Anon the Felon · May 2012

SJ wrote: »

the last thing we need is more armies to be left un-updated for a decade

SJ knows what's going on. So does my almost seven year old codex.

Which uses rules that don't even exist any more.

Oh god why are they changing editions again...So much shit is going to break and take seven years to fix.

SJ · May 2012

One of the prevailing rumors right now is that the chaos marine codex will be the only remaining 40k codex for the entire year

Anon the Felon · May 2012

SJ wrote: »

One of the prevailing rumors right now is that the chaos marine codex will be the only remaining 40k codex for the entire year

I can't believe that. I can't believe that any person at GW would think that's even close to a good idea.

That's not even an "O.K." idea.

They should have dropped 6th in January, and then put out a new codex every month and get everything up to date.

Mr_Rose · May 2012

New armies seem unlikely at this point for a bunch of reasons, unfortunately. After all, you gotta come up with a place for them in the fluff, including an appearance, an overall style, a recognisable archetype, and an origin. Then you gotta come up with some playable rules that don't tread too much on existing toes and aren't also blatantly broken. After that you have to release a large number of models all at once, but you can only do that if the new species is popular enough which means advertising and advanced notice, and finally you gotta fit them into the release schedule without pissing off all the "where's my updated codex you bastards" types too much.

Now, it could work; the Dark Eldar are a major example of how to do it almost perfectly for instance, but they had the advantage of an existing fan base and an origin that's been hinted at basically as long as the game has existed. On the other hand it could go very badly and that's a real issue as that adds another book to the release cycle for very little gain.

TheLawinator · May 2012

Anon the Felon wrote: »

SJ wrote: »

One of the prevailing rumors right now is that the chaos marine codex will be the only remaining 40k codex for the entire year

I can't believe that. I can't believe that any person at GW would think that's even close to a good idea.

That's not even an "O.K." idea.

They should have dropped 6th in January, and then put out a new codex every month and get everything up to date.

It's ok because every space marine army can be counts as CSM. Even grey knights. It's all good!

SJ · May 2012

Anon the Felon wrote: »

SJ wrote: »

One of the prevailing rumors right now is that the chaos marine codex will be the only remaining 40k codex for the entire year

I can't believe that. I can't believe that any person at GW would think that's even close to a good idea.

That's not even an "O.K." idea.

They should have dropped 6th in January, and then put out a new codex every month and get everything up to date.

Yeah. Regardless of when the actual rulebook drops (and I can understand wanting to do it in the summer), there's no excuse for them to be doing a single release a month. I genuinely do not believe that they cannot support 2 releases a month, at least.

Gumpy · May 2012

Oh yea, Delder were back

That's good enough for me

Matrias · May 2012

I sat in on a Q and A where they admitted the BT were a mistake.

Anon the Felon · May 2012

Matrias wrote: »

I guess I can admit now that I sat in on a Q and A where they admitted the BT were a mistake.

Can you please stop being a goose? I'm very sick of it.

Matrias · May 2012

And don't think I'm not sick of your juvenile reaction to it. How many years now?

Nax · May 2012

Matrias wrote: »

the fluff Nax is talking about on page 4 makes me wish for a Space Marine security council with Grimnar, Dante, and Calgar.

All the Chapters operating under a loose alliance, interfering with the High Lords wherever they wished... Could be pretty cool. Plus that lovely irony that the High Lords split up the Space Marines to neuter them and then united them together again accidentally.

See, they do this ALL THE TIME though, so its completely realistic in the fluff. Like the Second War for Armageddon. Tu'Shan and Calgar are there, and Tu'Shan is like, "K, Calgar, you got this. What do we do." Then the Blood Angels arrive, and Calgar is all, "Ok, We all follow Dante now!"

The Space Marines have as near a perfect chain of command that can be had, when we're talking about loyalist, noble chapters. They put pride aside (even if it gets bruised in the process), and they pass command and direction off the the most experienced leader present. They take pride in being an Astartes and they take pride in getting the job done. It is 100% plausible that an attack on any upstanding, loyal chapter will be responded to by multiple chapters.

For instance, when Ventris and co respond and work with The Mortifactors. They do things in an entirely different way than the Ultramarines did, and they couldn't believe how far they had strayed from Guilliman's teachings. At the end of the day, though, they were brother Astartes, and they put their lives on the line for each other.

Another example is the pending Blood Angel crisis on Baal. Dante put out a call to all Sons of Sanguinius... All chapters that descended from that geneseed, and they all responded. Even the chapters that have plenty of reason to hide from their brothers due to being declared Renegade (Knights of Blood, Lamenters for a time), or because of shady practices or rituals (Flesh Tearers, Blood Drinkers, etc).

Yes, I understand that the ties of loyalty are stronger there, due to trying to save the fortress of the parent chapter, but I think the point still has merit.

As for the argument about what happened to the Astral Claws.. Huron pretty much openly rebelled against the Imperium. Loyalist chapters were dispatched to destroy them as a result. I'm not talking about Marine chapters that up and decide to shit on Terra, here. I'm talking about if the Inquisition or any part of the Administratum / High Lords / Ecclessiarchy / Etc decide they don't like the way the Astartes are going about business as usual, they will meet a force more powerful than a single chapter in retaliation

Dayspring · May 2012

Even with the Astral Claws, a lot of Huron's allies were with him to defend a brother chapter rather than to side with Chaos.
The Lamenters in particular allied with him because they felt the inquisition had overstepped their bounds.

Nax · May 2012

yupyup

saluksic · May 2012

Fun times with rumors and fluff.

So, uh, Space Marine video game. So cool. Wicked cool. The first time I got the thunderhammer I felt physically drunk with power.

Plot spoilers

Spoiler:

altmann · May 2012

Thing about declaring SW traitor is Logan grimnar has a secret button that turns the fang into a giant space missile fortress aimed at Terra that is unstoppable, it's a last-ditch insurance move!.

See, I can write 40k fluff too.

saluksic · May 2012

There you go, Alt. You got the hang of it.

I just installed Vassal. That's cool.

Nax · May 2012

saluksic wrote: »

Plot spoilers

Spoiler:

I don't know if I'm supposed to be all snobby about my 40k and turn up my nose when a game character suggests super-charging a Warlord titan, but I don't. I love it.

Spoiler:

TheLawinator · May 2012

General rule for space marine cooperation: whoever is oldest is in command.

PierceNeck · May 2012

Since I'm going to start a CSM army as soon as I have a real job again, which I'm hoping is sooner rather than later, should I wait on buying the codex? Are they coming out with a new one soonish?

Nax · May 2012

Yup. So Dante is always in charge

Chrysis · May 2012

PierceNeck wrote: »

Since I'm going to start a CSM army as soon as I have a real job again, which I'm hoping is sooner rather than later, should I wait on buying the codex? Are they coming out with a new one soonish?

Current rumours point to a new codex around October, after a new edition of the game in July. I'd probably wait this close.

PierceNeck · May 2012

Thanks, that's what I was thinking. In the mean time, I'll just start my nurgle mans.

SJ · May 2012

Nax wrote: »

Yup. So Dante is always in charge

hey what's up with dante not having EW that's so weird right, is it because he isn't as tough as calgar???

altmann · May 2012

SJ Stoking the fire.

I guess they felt like Dane didn't need crutches... OHHHHHHH

(what am I saying, Logan has EW...)

I'm probably the only person on this forum who actually looks forward to 6th with all it's changes. Like I was telling NAX on steamchat, I don't think it will be the things you're all preliminarily hating on that will have any sort of negative effect. I think it will be some other thing no one sees coming.

Penny Arcade

[WH40k] 6th Edition Incoming. Hide your women and children!

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