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Conflicted about a friend's gf

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  • HalfmexHalfmex Matter of fact... I didn't even give you my coat!Registered User regular
    Agreed Figgy.

    I’m getting a very ‘missing the forest for the trees’ vibe from a lot of posts here. Let’s look at the topic: “Conflicted about a friend’s gf”. Alright, let’s start there. First, you’re not conflicted OP. You know precisely what it is you want: her. Oftentimes what people do in situations like this is seek permission under the guise of seeking advice. If there were no shady elements to this situation, this topic wouldn’t exist. Let’s look at the facts. You have a friend (your description, which is telling in that you used that term specifically over another like ‘acquaintance’ or ‘work buddy’, etc) who has a girlfriend you have an interest in. Said girlfriend appears to enjoy time with you specifically, not so much with her own partner. She also went and posted an ad on a personals website seeking “friends”. I’m air quoting the heck out of that.

    Look, Occam’s Razor kicks in pretty early in these situations and it’s fairly simple to see what the deal is. You need to ask yourself, “Self, how much do I value my friendship with this guy?” Further, you need to place yourself in his position. If your girlfriend spent a ton of time alone with one of your friends, especially if it was in lieu of hanging out with you, how would that make you feel? I’m not arguing the propriety of it here, that’s for another topic in another subforum. I’m simply putting the question out there. If I had to guess, based on what I know of human nature, my own experiences, those of countless similar topics on this forum and those of friends close to me, I’d guess you’d feel pretty upset and we’d see a “My girlfriend is hanging out with another guy a whole lot – Should I be worried?” topic pop up here. Now, let’s say the she decides to dump your friend and go for you. Hurray, right? But wait. Keep in mind how this all transpired. This girl had a guy, grew disinterested, didn’t speak to him on it but rather put herself out there as available socially. If it happened to him, it could just as easily happen to you.

    So, here’s the advice: walk away. Even if you don’t value this guy as a friend, this girl’s actions are more than just a little duplicitous and not at all indicative of someone who knows how to be in a healthy, communicative relationship. If you’re truly only seeking a running partner or tennis buddy, there are plenty of other options out there for you. In all future dealings, be honest with people and yourself. Head games are for high school.

  • anotheraltanotheralt Registered User
    Wow, harsh Figgy. To your points:

    1)As I said,her profile was marked as "looking for friends" and I try to make it a point not to get in the middle of any relationship my friends have (Ironic based on this thread, I know)
    2)She said she cares about him, but there's red flags in the relationship. So she's keeping her options open while seeing where things go with him (not necessarily with me either). Made sense to me.
    3)I just found it odd that he moved his seat closer to her mid conversation. Granted I could be reading too much into that.
    4)Would I date her if they broke? Yeah, possibly, but it would depend on a lot of things, foremost how my friend would take it and her interest (which if I may say I have no idea about). Right now I'm more interested in just making sure I'm not the cause of any drama.
    5)I'm interested in her with the caveat that she wouldn't be dating my friend. As it is right now I can easily separate any interest and just hang out with her as a friend as I pursue other people.

    I don't even know where the "secretely making plans to date her while they hang out" part comes from.

  • Niceguy MyeyeNiceguy Myeye Registered User regular
    I think you should probably see if she has some friends she can set you up with. It's likely her friends will share similar interests and have similar personalities.

    You can ask her directly about setting you up, or work it out as some sort of group activity and go from there.


  • NotYouNotYou Registered User regular
    Even if they breakup, you still really can't date a friend's ex without his permission. That's kind of the rule for these sorts of situations.

    So basically, you can have the girl, or you can have the friend. Chooooooose.

  • FiggyFiggy Registered User regular
    anotheralt wrote: »
    Wow, harsh Figgy. To your points:

    1)As I said,her profile was marked as "looking for friends" and I try to make it a point not to get in the middle of any relationship my friends have (Ironic based on this thread, I know)
    2)She said she cares about him, but there's red flags in the relationship. So she's keeping her options open while seeing where things go with him (not necessarily with me either). Made sense to me.
    3)I just found it odd that he moved his seat closer to her mid conversation. Granted I could be reading too much into that.
    4)Would I date her if they broke? Yeah, possibly, but it would depend on a lot of things, foremost how my friend would take it and her interest (which if I may say I have no idea about). Right now I'm more interested in just making sure I'm not the cause of any drama.
    5)I'm interested in her with the caveat that she wouldn't be dating my friend. As it is right now I can easily separate any interest and just hang out with her as a friend as I pursue other people.

    I don't even know where the "secretely making plans to date her while they hang out" part comes from.

    It comes from your OP specifically stating that you might be interested in this girl. It comes from the fact that you made a thread about this situation on an Internet forum under an alternate account. This isn't a thread where you ask how to talk to a girl. This is a thread where you are asking how to continue to spend time with this girl who is involved with your friend. And she doesn't really like him any more. And she has an OKCupid account that is active. And you have feelings for her.

    You need to step back and decide whether you're keeping all of this from your friend because you "don't want to get in the middle" or because you don't want to ruin your chances. Be honest, here. You were happy when she confided in you that she doesn't really like your friend any more. You were ecstatic when she told you she was "keeping her options open." This was a borderline stranger who confided in you about not liking your friend anymore, and you kept that to yourself and continued to spend time with her. While your "friend" is an hour away.

    And OKCupid is a dating site. Don't be naive. People in committed relationships don't "keep their options open."

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  • DeebaserDeebaser Alpha Teemo wawing a note with the cinema code Registered User regular
    Yeah, my sense was that people don't go to OKCupid looking for "friends" and if this showed up in your feed, you are being a bad friend by not telling your buddy about it.

    That isn't information she confided to you, that showed up on the Internet. Id feel pretty terrible if my buddies Knew my girlfriend created a dating profile account and didn't tell me about it.

    If this guy is just an acquaintaince that changes things, but if you run in the same social circles, your mutual friends may break with him should you move on this girl.

  • Manti5Manti5 Registered User
    Lol, I agree with Figgy and Halfmex. As guys, we all know what this is about. anotheralt, you're just using this thread to have people agree with your eventual course of action so that you don't feel like too much of an Ahole. Don't even try to hide that. You want real feedback? Go tell your "friend" everything you just posted about here. Let's see how that works out for you.

  • EshEsh Sunshine! Kittens! Rainbows! Smiles! Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    My take on this is that she is not his "girlfriend" but they are dating. Normal, healthy adults see multiple people all the time until they decide to become monogamous with one person. Unless the OPs friend and this girl are exclusively dating, she has every right to be on OkCupid. Now, this does NOT mean that the OP should go after the girl, seeing as how he's friends with the other guy, no matter if they only hang out once a month or so.

    "At first he thought it might be a natural occurrence - maybe a rabbit. But upon closer inspection, it was clear a knife had been used. And rabbits don't carry knives."
  • noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    Judging from the original post, it seems that the OP doesn't even really know the girl that well either. They met last month, and apparently the first long conversation they had was running.

    I think that the OP is doing what a lot of shy/nerdy guys do, where as soon as a girl starts to talk to them, or they find a girl that shares remotely the same interests or likes as them, they are immediately attracted to them.

    Just move on.

    Spoiler:
  • NylonathetepNylonathetep Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    While I agree that the Bro code is certainly in effect here, there's one big thing that I feel we are missing... What does the girl feel about this? and how come she doesn't have a say in what she wants to choose?

    I think you should have a talk with the girl in question and tell her how you feel... say that you feel great hanging out with her, you might see a potential relationship with her, and the ball is in her court now whether she wants to give it a shot. You'll ofcourse be completely respect if she feels that you and her are just friends, but if there's really something more between you two then let her know that you're available only if she is back in single status.

    After the breakup occurs, let things cool down a while and then eventually go official... you might want to ask your friend if it's okay for you to go out with her after she broke up with him. Prepare to still go out with her even if he says no... in that case you'll lose a friend. If he say everything is cool then none is the wiser and your conscious will be guilt free.

    The worst cast scenario is if she told you that she broke up with him but didn't... and that'll just be very sneaky on her part. You'll need to do some due diligence to see if they really did broke up... and if that situation truly came out then you quickly disassociate, tell your friend that she've been two timing, and ditch that girl completely.

    Nylonathetep on
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  • FiggyFiggy Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Esh wrote: »
    My take on this is that she is not his "girlfriend" but they are dating. Normal, healthy adults see multiple people all the time until they decide to become monogamous with one person. Unless the OPs friend and this girl are exclusively dating, she has every right to be on OkCupid. Now, this does NOT mean that the OP should go after the girl, seeing as how he's friends with the other guy, no matter if they only hang out once a month or so.

    I've always noticed you have an odd barometer of what constitutes a "girlfriend" or someone you're "dating." I think, for the most part, two adults don't sit down and have an official talk that they are now seeing each other exclusively. It just occurs organically. If the OP's friend is introducing this girl to his buddy's as "his girlfriend," they are at a point where it's not okay to be fishing around on dating sites. Or else she should be correcting him when he introduces her this way.

    Figgy on
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  • The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard Registered User regular
    I'm going to post from the other side of what you're at right now. I haven't talked to one of my best friends in about 5 years because he stole my then new boyfriend from me. I confronted him about it, and he flat out told me, "I wanted him more than I wanted you as a friend." My ex wasn't innocent in this, he ended up going with him, but that ex-best friend of mine manipulated information that I did not know to give him an unfair upper hand and win his heart. This wasn't just an acquaintance either, but a guy that I trusted, he was a close friend, he would have dinner with my family, and was the guy that took me to and from the hospital when I needed surgery. It was a savage betrayal.

    Anyway, if you want to still hang out with her, be smart, be careful, I've been on both sides of what you are in right now. Just be sure to keep your head on straight and don't get too infatuated, your dick will get you into trouble if you are not careful, and cause a lot of irreparable damage around you.

    P.S. Though at the very least I can say that prick saved me from crazy, I learned some things after the breakup. Like my ex was faking veterancy, one of the most despicable things imaginable.

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  • mythagomythago Registered User regular
    Esh wrote: »
    Normal, healthy adults see multiple people all the time until they decide to become monogamous with one person. Unless the OPs friend and this girl are exclusively dating, she has every right to be on OkCupid. Now, this does NOT mean that the OP should go after the girl, seeing as how he's friends with the other guy, no matter if they only hang out once a month or so.

    Normal, healthy adults who are seeing multiple people are open with their SOs that they are seeing multiple people. It's not normal, healthy or mature to wait until your SO said "I thought we were dating each other exclusively" to say "But we never talked about that! Surely you assumed we were dating others!" That's kind of a dick move.


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  • EshEsh Sunshine! Kittens! Rainbows! Smiles! Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    Figgy wrote: »
    Esh wrote: »
    My take on this is that she is not his "girlfriend" but they are dating. Normal, healthy adults see multiple people all the time until they decide to become monogamous with one person. Unless the OPs friend and this girl are exclusively dating, she has every right to be on OkCupid. Now, this does NOT mean that the OP should go after the girl, seeing as how he's friends with the other guy, no matter if they only hang out once a month or so.

    I've always noticed you have an odd barometer of what constitutes a "girlfriend" or someone you're "dating." I think, for the most part, two adults don't sit down and have an official talk that they are now seeing each other exclusively. It just occurs organically. If the OP's friend is introducing this girl to his buddy's as "his girlfriend," they are at a point where it's not okay to be fishing around on dating sites. Or else she should be correcting him when he introduces her this way.

    Pretty sure the OP never said the word "girlfriend" or that anyone was being introduced as that. I'm a little hungover though, so I may have missed it in my quick review of the thread.
    mythago wrote: »
    Esh wrote: »
    Normal, healthy adults see multiple people all the time until they decide to become monogamous with one person. Unless the OPs friend and this girl are exclusively dating, she has every right to be on OkCupid. Now, this does NOT mean that the OP should go after the girl, seeing as how he's friends with the other guy, no matter if they only hang out once a month or so.

    Normal, healthy adults who are seeing multiple people are open with their SOs that they are seeing multiple people. It's not normal, healthy or mature to wait until your SO said "I thought we were dating each other exclusively" to say "But we never talked about that! Surely you assumed we were dating others!" That's kind of a dick move.

    "Significant other" implies a commitment of sorts, which as far as I can tell, the OP's friend and this girl don't have at the moment.

    "At first he thought it might be a natural occurrence - maybe a rabbit. But upon closer inspection, it was clear a knife had been used. And rabbits don't carry knives."
  • HalfmexHalfmex Matter of fact... I didn't even give you my coat!Registered User regular
    Esh wrote: »
    Pretty sure the OP never said the word "girlfriend" or that anyone was being introduced as that. I'm a little hungover though, so I may have missed it in my quick review of the thread.
    It's in the topic title.

  • EshEsh Sunshine! Kittens! Rainbows! Smiles! Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    Halfmex wrote: »
    Esh wrote: »
    Pretty sure the OP never said the word "girlfriend" or that anyone was being introduced as that. I'm a little hungover though, so I may have missed it in my quick review of the thread.
    It's in the topic title.

    Well, lookie there. I have noticed though that many, many younger folks can't distinguish between when others have a girlfriend/boyfriend or when they're just dating.

    "At first he thought it might be a natural occurrence - maybe a rabbit. But upon closer inspection, it was clear a knife had been used. And rabbits don't carry knives."
  • DibsDibs Registered User regular
    Figgy is hitting the nail on the head. Do not bother arguing with him, but rather try looking internally and realize that what he's saying is true. Your counter post was pure rationalizing/backtracking.

    There is nothing worse than suspecting a significant other is cheating, except that they might be cheating on you with someone they would call a friend. This isn't some silly "bro code" or "man protocol", this is common decency and respect. Think about your buddy's feelings for a second here, because right now all you've thought of are your own (and that includes remaining willfully ignorant of the girl's, which are obvious).

    Even if this guy is not a good friend of yours, what you're doing is wrong. If the guy was a stranger you had never met and you ended up catalyzing a break-up and dating the girl, it's still pretty bad man.

    You need to sit down and talk to your buddy. Tell him that you're really happy to have a partner for the activities that you enjoy. Tell him that she's set off some red flags, and he deserves to know - and that knowing these things has made it uncomfortable for you to hang out with her (this is true, otherwise you wouldn't have posted this.. unless it was to ask for advice on how to steal the girl, which I don't think is the case).

  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    Look, the fact of the matter is, if you aren't going to "interfere" and let their relationship continue and see what happens, you need to move on. Because sitting on the sidelines waiting for someone to breakup is not a healthy thing to do. What if they sort out these red flags? Are you still going to sit there and think, maybe some day!

  • EshEsh Sunshine! Kittens! Rainbows! Smiles! Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    There aren't any "red flags". The OP needs to stay out of it and let them work out their relationship on their own. They're two adults, and unless you knew for sure that she was cheating on him or something, you're in absolutely no place to go running to him with your conjecture and unfounded accusations as to what she's doing and why.

    "At first he thought it might be a natural occurrence - maybe a rabbit. But upon closer inspection, it was clear a knife had been used. And rabbits don't carry knives."
  • FiggyFiggy Registered User regular
    Esh wrote: »
    There aren't any "red flags". The OP needs to stay out of it and let them work out their relationship on their own. They're two adults, and unless you knew for sure that she was cheating on him or something, you're in absolutely no place to go running to him with your conjecture and unfounded accusations as to what she's doing and why.

    If a friend's girlfriend tells me, while we're alone, that she isn't all that interested in him anymore, and then she pops up on my OKCupid feed, it's absolutely, 100% my place to tell him. I have no obligation to keep this girl's secrets. It's not like I went snooping through her E-mail or read her text messages over her shoulder. She told me something about my friend that he would very much want to know. My loyalties to him would trump any loyalties I had to her: someone I just met.

    It's not conjecture or unfounded accusations. It's something she said to him. What's so unfounded? I'd hate to think I would have a "friend" that would find something like that out and keep it a secret. Think of how you would feel if you were the other guy and you found out after you broke up that your friend knew this info and sat on it?

    daniant wrote:
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  • EshEsh Sunshine! Kittens! Rainbows! Smiles! Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    Figgy wrote: »
    Esh wrote: »
    There aren't any "red flags". The OP needs to stay out of it and let them work out their relationship on their own. They're two adults, and unless you knew for sure that she was cheating on him or something, you're in absolutely no place to go running to him with your conjecture and unfounded accusations as to what she's doing and why.

    If a friend's girlfriend tells me, while we're alone, that she isn't all that interested in him anymore, and then she pops up on my OKCupid feed, it's absolutely, 100% my place to tell him. I have no obligation to keep this girl's secrets. It's not like I went snooping through her E-mail or read her text messages over her shoulder. She told me something about my friend that he would very much want to know. My loyalties to him would trump any loyalties I had to her: someone I just met.

    It's not conjecture or unfounded accusations. It's something she said to him. What's so unfounded? I'd hate to think I would have a "friend" that would find something like that out and keep it a secret. Think of how you would feel if you were the other guy and you found out after you broke up that your friend knew this info and sat on it?

    She said she was having "doubts" (which happens quite frequently) and her OkCupid said she was looking for friends. She didn't say she wasn't interested anymore, if she wasn't, she'd just dump him. OP also made sure to tell us that he barely saw this guy in an attempt to distance his emotional ties to him, so I don't think they're exactly best buds or anything.

    Again, two adults with absolutely nothing nothing beyond what the OP wants to hear going on. Not his business unless something is truly happening.

    "At first he thought it might be a natural occurrence - maybe a rabbit. But upon closer inspection, it was clear a knife had been used. And rabbits don't carry knives."
  • MrTLiciousMrTLicious Registered User regular
    Esh wrote: »
    Figgy wrote: »
    Esh wrote: »
    There aren't any "red flags". The OP needs to stay out of it and let them work out their relationship on their own. They're two adults, and unless you knew for sure that she was cheating on him or something, you're in absolutely no place to go running to him with your conjecture and unfounded accusations as to what she's doing and why.

    If a friend's girlfriend tells me, while we're alone, that she isn't all that interested in him anymore, and then she pops up on my OKCupid feed, it's absolutely, 100% my place to tell him. I have no obligation to keep this girl's secrets. It's not like I went snooping through her E-mail or read her text messages over her shoulder. She told me something about my friend that he would very much want to know. My loyalties to him would trump any loyalties I had to her: someone I just met.

    It's not conjecture or unfounded accusations. It's something she said to him. What's so unfounded? I'd hate to think I would have a "friend" that would find something like that out and keep it a secret. Think of how you would feel if you were the other guy and you found out after you broke up that your friend knew this info and sat on it?

    She said she was having "doubts" (which happens quite frequently) and her OkCupid said she was looking for friends. She didn't say she wasn't interested anymore, if she wasn't, she'd just dump him. OP also made sure to tell us that he barely saw this guy in an attempt to distance his emotional ties to him, so I don't think they're exactly best buds or anything.

    Again, two adults with absolutely nothing nothing beyond what the OP wants to hear going on. Not his business unless something is truly happening.

    In my experience, she wouldn't just dump him. She would wait until she found something better, and then dump him. I think Figgy is right in telling the friend, if they are truly friends. It's what I would do. That said, I don't think it makes the OP a bad person if he doesn't - it just reveals the nature of their relationship.

  • HotandnerdyHotandnerdy Registered User
    I said it before.

    Run away.

    Drama + new relationship = crazy

    girl.jpg
  • EshEsh Sunshine! Kittens! Rainbows! Smiles! Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    MrTLicious wrote: »
    Esh wrote: »
    Figgy wrote: »
    Esh wrote: »
    There aren't any "red flags". The OP needs to stay out of it and let them work out their relationship on their own. They're two adults, and unless you knew for sure that she was cheating on him or something, you're in absolutely no place to go running to him with your conjecture and unfounded accusations as to what she's doing and why.

    If a friend's girlfriend tells me, while we're alone, that she isn't all that interested in him anymore, and then she pops up on my OKCupid feed, it's absolutely, 100% my place to tell him. I have no obligation to keep this girl's secrets. It's not like I went snooping through her E-mail or read her text messages over her shoulder. She told me something about my friend that he would very much want to know. My loyalties to him would trump any loyalties I had to her: someone I just met.

    It's not conjecture or unfounded accusations. It's something she said to him. What's so unfounded? I'd hate to think I would have a "friend" that would find something like that out and keep it a secret. Think of how you would feel if you were the other guy and you found out after you broke up that your friend knew this info and sat on it?

    She said she was having "doubts" (which happens quite frequently) and her OkCupid said she was looking for friends. She didn't say she wasn't interested anymore, if she wasn't, she'd just dump him. OP also made sure to tell us that he barely saw this guy in an attempt to distance his emotional ties to him, so I don't think they're exactly best buds or anything.

    Again, two adults with absolutely nothing nothing beyond what the OP wants to hear going on. Not his business unless something is truly happening.

    In my experience, she wouldn't just dump him. She would wait until she found something better, and then dump him.

    You have dated/known some pretty goosey people apparently. ;)

    "At first he thought it might be a natural occurrence - maybe a rabbit. But upon closer inspection, it was clear a knife had been used. And rabbits don't carry knives."
  • tapeslingertapeslinger utter Yog-Sothothery Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    no, that's actually a pretty standard shitty thing some people do, Esh

    typically when someone gets dumped "out of nowhere" it wasn't really like that
    I have known girls (and dudes) who do this because they are really insecure about being alone even when they are not satisfied with the relationship
    they might hang on til they land a better arrangement, which is shitty, but it does happen


    OP: I think I would probably tell your friend about it, with the caveat that he might not be your friend later on. Even if she's not romantically interested in you, he might be suspicious of you when this girl breaks up with him "out of nowhere" -- which is what I suspect is going to happen to him sooner or later.

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  • mythagomythago Registered User regular
    Esh wrote: »
    "Significant other" implies a commitment of sorts, which as far as I can tell, the OP's friend and this girl don't have at the moment.

    Does the OP's friend know that?

    That's the problem, right? Nobody here is communicating. Girlfriend apparently isn't telling Friend what she's feeling or that she sees their relationship as casual. Friend isn't telling OP he is feeling some vibes between them and he's wondering what's up. Friend isn't telling Girlfriend or Friend anything.

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  • MrTLiciousMrTLicious Registered User regular
    Esh wrote: »
    MrTLicious wrote: »
    Esh wrote: »
    Figgy wrote: »
    Esh wrote: »
    There aren't any "red flags". The OP needs to stay out of it and let them work out their relationship on their own. They're two adults, and unless you knew for sure that she was cheating on him or something, you're in absolutely no place to go running to him with your conjecture and unfounded accusations as to what she's doing and why.

    If a friend's girlfriend tells me, while we're alone, that she isn't all that interested in him anymore, and then she pops up on my OKCupid feed, it's absolutely, 100% my place to tell him. I have no obligation to keep this girl's secrets. It's not like I went snooping through her E-mail or read her text messages over her shoulder. She told me something about my friend that he would very much want to know. My loyalties to him would trump any loyalties I had to her: someone I just met.

    It's not conjecture or unfounded accusations. It's something she said to him. What's so unfounded? I'd hate to think I would have a "friend" that would find something like that out and keep it a secret. Think of how you would feel if you were the other guy and you found out after you broke up that your friend knew this info and sat on it?

    She said she was having "doubts" (which happens quite frequently) and her OkCupid said she was looking for friends. She didn't say she wasn't interested anymore, if she wasn't, she'd just dump him. OP also made sure to tell us that he barely saw this guy in an attempt to distance his emotional ties to him, so I don't think they're exactly best buds or anything.

    Again, two adults with absolutely nothing nothing beyond what the OP wants to hear going on. Not his business unless something is truly happening.

    In my experience, she wouldn't just dump him. She would wait until she found something better, and then dump him.

    You have dated/known some pretty goosey people apparently. ;)

    Yeah... :(

    I tend to assume people are gooses until proven otherwise.

  • EshEsh Sunshine! Kittens! Rainbows! Smiles! Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    no, that's actually a pretty standard shitty thing some people do, Esh

    That's what I said. :)

    "At first he thought it might be a natural occurrence - maybe a rabbit. But upon closer inspection, it was clear a knife had been used. And rabbits don't carry knives."
  • ceresceres Your photo framed Raw within my mindSuper Moderator, Moderator mod
    Oh for fuck's sake.

    You clearly know what you want to do and you clearly know what's right and you ALSO clearly know how those two things intersect.

    Be a douche or don't; "some guys on the internet said it was okay" is not going to make you any less responsible for the outcome of your words and actions.

    Whatever happens, wherever things go or don't because you encouraged or discouraged, You. Are. Responsible. You ARE that guy.

    So which guy do you want to be?

    And I am done with my graceless heart,
    So tonight I'm gonna cut it out and then restart.

    The avalanche has already started; it is too late for the pebbles to vote.
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