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NBA: Jordan Leading the Bobcats to the promised land.

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Posts

  • sportzboytjwsportzboytjw squeeeeeezzeeee some more tax breaks outRegistered User regular
    LeBron's career hasn't ebbed a bit. He has dominated this year, he ripped Derrick Rose apart last year, he is the best player in the league. If you want to say "I don't like him," fine. If you want to say he is anything than the best player in the league who has carried awful teams to playoff success, you're wrong. It's cute that you think that Magic team was awful, or that "people who follow the league blah blah they're bad" but the fact (that you STILL are avoiding) is that THEY HAD SIX PLAYERS WHO WERE THE EQUAL OR BETTER OF MO WILLIAMS AND AN ALL-NBA CENTER. You are the silliest of gooses for trying to back away like it was not a statement that you meant. When was the last NBA champion who didn't have at least two all-stars on the team? Detriot kind-of, but they were loaded with a bunch of almost-stars and such, and then Hakeem in his first title? What would it take for you to say "wow, LeBron is the best player in the league. He is probably a Top 10 player of all-time"?

    You said LBJ has a great game every once in a while. I say that carrying a Heat team that didn't have those two all-stars you're so mad at LeBron for having finally through a brutal season while having a PER that has more distance between first and second than 2nd and 8th place is pretty freaking impressive. Yes, he will eventually win a title, yea, some people will STILL rip him if he doesn't win it with a last-second shot with a hand in his face, but even if he didn't, he's starting at SF on my all-time 2nd team.

    Finally, the basketball refernce links were so that when I made those statements, you wouldn't just go "oh, people who know the game don't agree with you, you can't prove that" like you were all set to do. You have rebutted no one's points with quotes, facts, links or stats, but said only that you think you see more than we do or statistics do.

    Walkerdog on MTGO
    TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
  • Form of Monkey!Form of Monkey! Registered User regular
    This is getting amusing.
    LeBron's career hasn't ebbed a bit.

    A great point. Truly there is no difference between the lithe, agile LeBron James we saw in Cleveland and the one we see now.
    He has dominated this year, he ripped Derrick Rose apart last year

    Five minutes guarding Derrick Rose in one playoff game now means "ripped apart."
    he is the best player in the league.

    Yes. So what?
    It's cute that you think that Magic team was awful, or that "people who follow the league blah blah they're bad" but the fact (that you STILL are avoiding) is that

    What's cute, actually, is that you evidently weren't watching basketball even 3 years ago, and have no recollection of LeBron James failing against a very, very mediocre Magic team whom the Cavs were heavy favorites to beat. It's excellent evidence that you started following neither James nor the Heat until last season.

    You said that James had only lost against MUCH more talented teams (your words, not anyone else's). That was proven demonstrably false. So then you actually--and I'm seriously just chuckling as I type this--you actually attempted to argue that that Magic team was full of great players. And because you weren't watching ball then, you went straight to basketball reference to vomit out some copy pastes because you have no recollection of that team yourself. If you had such a recollection, you wouldn't have said that James only fails against more talented teams. You would have been aware of the times when that wasn't the case at all. I mean, you've just been got, but here you are pretending that none of that just happened. It is legitimately funny.
    THEY HAD SIX PLAYERS WHO WERE THE EQUAL OR BETTER OF MO WILLIAMS AND AN ALL-NBA CENTER.

    You've bolded and uppercased this now, perhaps because you think it's worthy of emphasis, but you never made it clear what this has to do with James' failure last year alongside the second-best player in the league and a legit all-star? And not even an all-star according to your dumb, wishy-washy definition of all-star that I've noticed you've used. This is where a player used to be an all-star a decade ago, and so according to you, still has that title despite the state of their present-day skills, like you just did with players like Kidd and Marion in attempting to dismiss James' unmitigated failure a year ago. These people are not "all stars," they're "former all stars." They're not nearly the same players they were in their prime. You don't carry the title from season to season like they're the President. :lol:
    When was the last NBA champion who didn't have at least two all-stars on the team?

    Last year.


    Sorry, this is about as much entertainment as I'm willing to extract from this. I'm done with you. Thank you for your wizened insights, and I am glad to learn that the NBA is still attracting new fans every day.

  • jackisrealjackisreal Registered User
    So, who would you rather bang: Tyson Chandler or Serge Ibaka?

    Ibaka is probably better with his hands, but Chandler is definitely more vocal. Tough, tough call.

    DolphinMechSig.jpg
  • sportzboytjwsportzboytjw squeeeeeezzeeee some more tax breaks outRegistered User regular
    Six players past D-Ho that are as good or better than your 2nd best player is much more talented. I was watching the Cavs lose to the Magic @ work. I think what I remember thinking the most was, "So many threes." and "Wow LeBron is amazing."

    But it's adorable that your dislike of an amazing player is so much that you have to avoid the fact that he is amazing. And assuredly one of the 20 best players of all-time. At worst, he's Malone+ at this point in career.

    Walkerdog on MTGO
    TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
  • Form of Monkey!Form of Monkey! Registered User regular
    jackisreal wrote: »
    So, who would you rather bang: Tyson Chandler or Serge Ibaka?

    Ibaka is probably better with his hands, but Chandler is definitely more vocal. Tough, tough call.

    I'm going with Chandler on that one, only because I think he would cuddle with you afterwards. The two of us would embrace in a labyrinth of long tattooed limbs and you'd just feel safe in his arms. Just the both of you against the world. Truly a defensive player of my heart.

  • y2jake215y2jake215 The No Flex ZoneRegistered User regular
    What were the 6 players again?

    Because arguing Rafer Alston is better than Mo Williams is a tough one. Even Delonte West was better than Alston statistically that year. Gortat scored 15 points in that 6 game series, and was nowhere near as polished as he is today. Zydrunas Ilgauskas was no slouch... I don't think Mickael Pietrus or JJ Redick were better players in 2008/09 than Z. And since, as you mentioned, Jameer didn't even play. That puts it, by my count, at 3 players equal to or better than Mo Williams - Dwight, Rashard (at the time) and Hedo.

    If you want to be scientific, and use PER, in 2008/09 Mo Williams and Zydrunas Ilgauskas would have the two highest seasonal PERs on Orlando after Dwight (excluding injured Jameer and the sample size outlier of Adonal Foyle)

    C8Ft8GE.jpg
    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    Hey Bulls fans, I'd like to apologize for this collapse. Me deciding to take an active interest in basketball over the last few years, with both the cubs and vikings (dont ask why im a fan) in major rebuilding stages has likely caused this collapse.

    My bad. I am sports team cursed. I didnt meant to do this to Derrick Rose, I didn't realize how powerful I was.

    I should root for the Heat, but I feel my curse can not be tricked so easily. In all honesty, once the bulls are out, ill be pulling for OKC, so prepare for the worst.

    616610-1.png
  • Form of Monkey!Form of Monkey! Registered User regular
    I just noticed this morning that the 2009 Cavs had five "all stars" too!

    -James
    -Mo Williams (2009)
    -Big Z (2003, 2005)
    -Wally Szczerbiak (2002)
    -Ben Wallace (4 times)

    Ahahahahahah. :P

    Literally just disingenuous and pretending all star appearances are meaningful only when James is beaten by a team constructed like this, but not if he comes up way short while playing ON a team like this. Literally just claiming it's relevant in one case but not another.

    We were so poor for a while, not having a token Heat Fan to share their wisdom like they have on other forums. They seem to have so much fun picking apart awful reasoning like this on sites like NeoGAF. But now we have finally arrived. Now it's OUR turn! :)


    ***(NSFW lyrics)***

  • UnknownSaintUnknownSaint Registered User
    I have no idea what you just said.

  • Form of Monkey!Form of Monkey! Registered User regular
    I have no idea what you just said.

    It's pretty specific in its scope, yeah. Let me see if I can contextualize this better. I'm poking fun at the claim that the 2011 Dallas Mavericks were spilling over with "all stars" (who were mostly just old farts way past their primes) and that "ALL STAR ROSTER" was the reason the Heat lost last year, not that James choked and that Dirk Nowitzki was amazing, but "ALL STARS," VS. LeBron James playing on a team in 2009 constructed exactly the same way as the Mavs (loaded with supposed "all stars" who were just old farts past their prime, too) and nevertheless failing outright against a team the Cavs were heavily favored to beat.

  • sportzboytjwsportzboytjw squeeeeeezzeeee some more tax breaks outRegistered User regular
    I just noticed this morning that the 2009 Cavs had five "all stars" too!

    -James
    -Mo Williams (2009)
    -Big Z (2003, 2005)
    -Wally Szczerbiak (2002)
    -Ben Wallace (4 times)

    Ahahahahahah. :P

    Literally just disingenuous and pretending all star appearances are meaningful only when James is beaten by a team constructed like this, but not if he comes up way short while playing ON a team like this. Literally just claiming it's relevant in one case but not another.

    We were so poor for a while, not having a token Heat Fan to share their wisdom like they have on other forums. They seem to have so much fun picking apart awful reasoning like this on sites like NeoGAF. But now we have finally arrived. Now it's OUR turn! :)


    ***(NSFW lyrics)***


    I'm a disenfranchised Sonics fan. I think you made a ridiculous arguement (LBJ probably isn't even the 20th best player of all-time), and then it degenerated into you ignoring factual evidence for "anyone who watches basketball KNOWS THESE THINGS" and now into you accusing me of being a Heat Fan.

    You are the silliest goose.

    Walkerdog on MTGO
    TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    I am a Heat fan, only because it angers people. NBA - You troll me with taking away my Sonics, I troll you by rooting for the most hated team.

  • Form of Monkey!Form of Monkey! Registered User regular
    I just noticed this morning that the 2009 Cavs had five "all stars" too!

    -James
    -Mo Williams (2009)
    -Big Z (2003, 2005)
    -Wally Szczerbiak (2002)
    -Ben Wallace (4 times)

    Ahahahahahah. :P

    Literally just disingenuous and pretending all star appearances are meaningful only when James is beaten by a team constructed like this, but not if he comes up way short while playing ON a team like this. Literally just claiming it's relevant in one case but not another.

    We were so poor for a while, not having a token Heat Fan to share their wisdom like they have on other forums. They seem to have so much fun picking apart awful reasoning like this on sites like NeoGAF. But now we have finally arrived. Now it's OUR turn! :)


    ***(NSFW lyrics)***


    I'm a disenfranchised Sonics fan. I think you made a ridiculous arguement (LBJ probably isn't even the 20th best player of all-time), and then it degenerated into you ignoring factual evidence for "anyone who watches basketball KNOWS THESE THINGS" and now into you accusing me of being a Heat Fan.

    You are the silliest goose.

    If you're just going to eschew argument for personal attacks, then I'm still willing to overlook that you've done that because of the bolded part.

    You have my condolences, legitimately and sincerely.

    Some thoughts on the Sonics:

    - Bill Simmons thinks that if your team leaves town, you're pretty much within your rights to root for whomever you feel like from that point on. He might be onto something.

    - Seattle is a world class city and it is a travesty that they still don't have a team of their own again. I imagine they would just be called "The Sonics" again, since that was part of the deal that was brokered, is that they would keep the name but have a "shared" history with the Thunder. Is Seattle going to get the Kings, the Bobcats, or any other team that is ripe for relocation?

    - The Sonics teams from the 90s were highly underrated, and were powerhouses that would often give the Rockets and Spurs fits. It is a shame that salary disputes and incompetent management destroyed the Kemp / Payton core. It may have been good for a couple more Finals appearances at least. Let us pour a forty for what could have been.

    - Do you follow the Thunder now, or are they far more Oklahoma's team than Seattle's at this point? Again, do you just pick and choose from season to season?

  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    Also, anything that takes away from LeBron's talent for not winning a championship is asinine. Unless you really want to get into revisionist history on most teams that suffered during the Phil Jackson eras of the Bulls and Lakers respectively.

  • Form of Monkey!Form of Monkey! Registered User regular
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Also, anything that takes away from LeBron's talent for not winning a championship is asinine. Unless you really want to get into revisionist history on most teams that suffered during the Phil Jackson eras of the Bulls and Lakers respectively.

    *shrug* As it was brought up earlier LeBron James has logged just 9,000 fewer minutes than Michael Jordan ever did as a Bull, and has so much less to show for it in his respective career. So much less.

    We can try to explain it away as Mike Brown's questionable philosophy of running James' knees off early in his career, where James was frequently one of the league's leaders in MPG if not THE leader in the category as a Cavalier. We can try to explain it, as some have, as Cavs GM Danny Ferry's continued failure to surround a prime James with credible supporting talent.

    But one thing is certain: We are only a few more seasons removed from watching James lope around the court at a much slower pace, finishing at the rim with even less athleticism than he's already lost, and jacking up disinterested midrange jumpers from time to time, as a veteran scorer and probably not even a first option. This "Antonio McDyess" veteran stage of his career will be kind of depressing to watch.

    And it's coming. As it's said, it's never the age, it's the mileage. And the man doesn't have many more miles left. We know what human knees and backs are capable of, and with very few outliers (Nash, Kareem, etc.) we know how long an NBA career generally lasts.

    Under those circumstances, it's understandable that James would want to try to cut corners and make the best use of his last few good years as an NBA player. I don't approve of it personally, I think it's cheap and corny, but as I mentioned before, it's still 100% understandable.

    Hard things are hard. Difficult things are difficult.

  • TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    Well, lets not act as James is 35 already and trying to milk a year or two more out of his body. He is far from being in this stage. In fact he is just about in his prime.

  • Form of Monkey!Form of Monkey! Registered User regular
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    Well, lets not act as James is 35 already and trying to milk a year or two more out of his body. He is far from being in this stage. In fact he is just about in his prime.

    This is exactly what I'm saying, though. The man has played a LOT of basketball up until this point. There is so much wear and tear on that body already, to the point where it's misleading to go by his age and even by seasons played. The minutes alone are just mind-blowing.

  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    I'm always entertained when we talk about these really good players not "living up to their potential."

    also, I totally was not expecting the clippers to wind up winning this game.

    These nailbiters are terrible for my stress levels

    It was the first playoff game I've been to. After just 5 minutes I was emotionally exhausted. My voice still hasn't come back, I spent all Sunday doing charades like some mime.

    jackisreal wrote: »
    Damn, didn't get to watch the MEM/LAC game. Pretty surprised that the Clippers won- was it all Chris Paul going off in the 4th quarter?

    Still hoping the basketbears rally.

    Yes, Paul was excellent in the fourth, as you might expect. But then it got close again as Rudy Gay decided to show us why he should be on the Olympic team this summer, and the Clippers decided to remind us that they were the worst free throw shooting team in the league.

    It was also Vinny reminding us of why he's a moron.

    Eric Bledsoe is a 64% FT shooter. He's also 22 years old, in his 2nd NBA season. Yet for some reason he's in the game during the final minute taking clutch FTs. Even though Paul, Williams, Foye, Butler, Young, and Simmons are all far better FT shooters with more experience.

    Even if they have Bledsoe in the game for defensive purposes (not as big a deal with Mayo fouled out), he still shouldn't be anywhere near the ball when it's an obvious fouling situation.

  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    Also, this happened yesterday, which was pretty :rotate:





    But wait, it gets better. Apparently the lady is a Kenyon Martin stalker, who was yelling "Where's Kenyon?!" as she was escorted out. What kind of stalker doesn't even know which NBA team her object of obsession plays for?

  • Form of Monkey!Form of Monkey! Registered User regular
    @BubbaT - Which five would you have put out on the floor instead? I'd have to check the DVR, but I think it was a case of having some pretty slim pickings among that injury-ravaged backcourt and a ton of bigs who can't shoot free throws worth a damn, like Martin, Jordan, Griffin, etc.

    I'm also not sure how much I agree with a decision like putting a player in who hasn't played all game, based on his free throw shooting percentages.

    Some coaches agree with the practice, some don't.

    What are your thoughts on that?

  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    @BubbaT - Which five would you have put out on the floor instead? I'd have to check the DVR, but I think it was a case of having some pretty slim pickings among that injury-ravaged backcourt and a ton of bigs who can't shoot free throws worth a damn, like Martin, Jordan, Griffin, etc.

    The Clippers have 3 of the best clutch* FT shooters in the league this year, in Paul (96% FT in clutch), Mo (93%), and Foye (100%). The play should have been designed for one of those 3 to get the ball. But IIRC, Mo was the guy throwing it in, which makes it difficult for him to be the guy who gets fouled. Young would be the 4th option.

    (*clutch defined as last 5 minutes of the game or OT, with the score within 5.
    http://www.82games.com/CSORT10.HTM)
    I'm also not sure how much I agree with a decision like putting a player in who hasn't played all game, based on his free throw shooting percentages.

    Some coaches agree with the practice, some don't.

    What are your thoughts on that?

    If the guy is completely cold that's one thing.

    However, of the 6 guys I named (Paul, Williams, Foye, Butler, Young, Simmons) it only applies to 1: Simmons, he was the only DNP. The other guys all played in the game - in fact, they all played more minutes than Bledsoe.

    So even if Vinny buys into the "cold guy" theory, Bledsoe was the cold guy.

    Either way the strategy didn't work out. Bledsoe missed a bunch of FTs which allowed Memphis a chance to win at the buzzer. A 6-point lead with under a minute to go should not come down to a buzzer-beater opportunity.


    Before the series started I thought Vinny would cost us at least 1 game. I'm hoping this was it, and the Clippers somehow managed to win the "lost game" anyways, despite Vinny.

    Remember that this comes on the back of game 1, where Vinny wanted to throw in the towel, and Paul had to force his way back into the game.

  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Also, anything that takes away from LeBron's talent for not winning a championship is asinine. Unless you really want to get into revisionist history on most teams that suffered during the Phil Jackson eras of the Bulls and Lakers respectively.

    *shrug* As it was brought up earlier LeBron James has logged just 9,000 fewer minutes than Michael Jordan ever did as a Bull, and has so much less to show for it in his respective career. So much less.

    We can try to explain it away as Mike Brown's questionable philosophy of running James' knees off early in his career, where James was frequently one of the league's leaders in MPG if not THE leader in the category as a Cavalier. We can try to explain it, as some have, as Cavs GM Danny Ferry's continued failure to surround a prime James with credible supporting talent.

    But one thing is certain: We are only a few more seasons removed from watching James lope around the court at a much slower pace, finishing at the rim with even less athleticism than he's already lost, and jacking up disinterested midrange jumpers from time to time, as a veteran scorer and probably not even a first option. This "Antonio McDyess" veteran stage of his career will be kind of depressing to watch.

    And it's coming. As it's said, it's never the age, it's the mileage. And the man doesn't have many more miles left. We know what human knees and backs are capable of, and with very few outliers (Nash, Kareem, etc.) we know how long an NBA career generally lasts.

    Under those circumstances, it's understandable that James would want to try to cut corners and make the best use of his last few good years as an NBA player. I don't approve of it personally, I think it's cheap and corny, but as I mentioned before, it's still 100% understandable.

    Hard things are hard. Difficult things are difficult.

    If we are comparing LeBron to Jordan then yes, LeBron is not even close. But neither is anybody else really. Which makes the comparison and the diminishing of LeBron's talent asinine.

  • Form of Monkey!Form of Monkey! Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    @BubbaT - Thanks for clarifying. I see your point. No doubt, when you have three great options for free throw shooting in the last two minutes of a quarter, and you end up inbounding to none of them, that is a coaching error, plain and simple. It wouldn't even matter who players 4 and 5 are, since wow....they couldn't get the ball to any of those other three?

    mrt144 wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Also, anything that takes away from LeBron's talent for not winning a championship is asinine. Unless you really want to get into revisionist history on most teams that suffered during the Phil Jackson eras of the Bulls and Lakers respectively.

    *shrug* As it was brought up earlier LeBron James has logged just 9,000 fewer minutes than Michael Jordan ever did as a Bull, and has so much less to show for it in his respective career. So much less.

    We can try to explain it away as Mike Brown's questionable philosophy of running James' knees off early in his career, where James was frequently one of the league's leaders in MPG if not THE leader in the category as a Cavalier. We can try to explain it, as some have, as Cavs GM Danny Ferry's continued failure to surround a prime James with credible supporting talent.

    But one thing is certain: We are only a few more seasons removed from watching James lope around the court at a much slower pace, finishing at the rim with even less athleticism than he's already lost, and jacking up disinterested midrange jumpers from time to time, as a veteran scorer and probably not even a first option. This "Antonio McDyess" veteran stage of his career will be kind of depressing to watch.

    And it's coming. As it's said, it's never the age, it's the mileage. And the man doesn't have many more miles left. We know what human knees and backs are capable of, and with very few outliers (Nash, Kareem, etc.) we know how long an NBA career generally lasts.

    Under those circumstances, it's understandable that James would want to try to cut corners and make the best use of his last few good years as an NBA player. I don't approve of it personally, I think it's cheap and corny, but as I mentioned before, it's still 100% understandable.

    Hard things are hard. Difficult things are difficult.

    If we are comparing LeBron to Jordan then yes, LeBron is not even close. But neither is anybody else really. Which makes the comparison and the diminishing of LeBron's talent asinine.

    Well we've sort of come full circle on that, because that was the genesis of this conversation, were these constant, unfounded, starfucking media comparisons between the two players whenever James did anything remotely good.

    By definition, no player ever compares to "the greatest of all time." A player can be good, even historically good, without somehow surpassing the best player ever in everything he does. While those comparisons used to be part of ESPN's ongoing quest to anoint a New MJ, these days they just draw attention to the ever-widening disparity between the accomplishments of both.

    In either case, it does a grave disservice to LeBron James and harms the level of discourse in sports media.

    Form of Monkey! on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    @BubbaT - Thanks for clarifying. I see your point. No doubt, when you have three great options for free throw shooting in the last two minutes of a quarter, and you end up inbounding to none of them, that is a coaching error, plain and simple. It wouldn't even matter who players 4 and 5 are, since wow....they couldn't get the ball to any of those other three?
    mrt144 wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Also, anything that takes away from LeBron's talent for not winning a championship is asinine. Unless you really want to get into revisionist history on most teams that suffered during the Phil Jackson eras of the Bulls and Lakers respectively.

    *shrug* As it was brought up earlier LeBron James has logged just 9,000 fewer minutes than Michael Jordan ever did as a Bull, and has so much less to show for it in his respective career. So much less.

    We can try to explain it away as Mike Brown's questionable philosophy of running James' knees off early in his career, where James was frequently one of the league's leaders in MPG if not THE leader in the category as a Cavalier. We can try to explain it, as some have, as Cavs GM Danny Ferry's continued failure to surround a prime James with credible supporting talent.

    But one thing is certain: We are only a few more seasons removed from watching James lope around the court at a much slower pace, finishing at the rim with even less athleticism than he's already lost, and jacking up disinterested midrange jumpers from time to time, as a veteran scorer and probably not even a first option. This "Antonio McDyess" veteran stage of his career will be kind of depressing to watch.

    And it's coming. As it's said, it's never the age, it's the mileage. And the man doesn't have many more miles left. We know what human knees and backs are capable of, and with very few outliers (Nash, Kareem, etc.) we know how long an NBA career generally lasts.

    Under those circumstances, it's understandable that James would want to try to cut corners and make the best use of his last few good years as an NBA player. I don't approve of it personally, I think it's cheap and corny, but as I mentioned before, it's still 100% understandable.

    Hard things are hard. Difficult things are difficult.

    If we are comparing LeBron to Jordan then yes, LeBron is not even close. But neither is anybody else really. Which makes the comparison and the diminishing of LeBron's talent asinine.

    Well we've sort of come full circle on that, because that was the genesis of this conversation, were these constant, unfounded, starfucking media comparisons between the two players whenever James did anything remotely good.

    By definition, no player ever compares to "the greatest of all time." A player can be good, even historically good, without somehow surpassing the best player ever in everything he does. While those comparisons used to be part of ESPN's ongoing quest to anoint a New MJ, these days they just draw attention to the ever-widening disparity between the accomplishments of both.

    In either case, it does a grave disservice to LeBron James and harms the level of discourse in sports media.

    ESPN can go blow goats with their narratives. I swear to god the only people that buy into them are some New Englander goat blowing man-child.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    So what are you even arguing about, then? This whole thing started with you implying that lebron should be as good as jordan (or have won as much, or had as good a head fake in the post, or something), which a page later you seem to have conceded is not the case.

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    remember pluto? Once a planet but now a pseudo
    funny how information changes the facts that you know
  • Form of Monkey!Form of Monkey! Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    So what are you even arguing about, then? This whole thing started with you implying that lebron should be as good as jordan (or have won as much, or had as good a head fake in the post, or something), which a page later you seem to have conceded is not the case.

    You seem to have me confused with other posters who perceived a severe slight against James and hurfed that durf all the way into the durfosphere to try to explain away all of his many career disappointments in defense of their fallen hero. What I said is that no, he's not even close to MJ in terms of ability nor accomplishments, the media needs to stop suggesting that that's the case, and that while James has a firm place in the annals of history (haha, "annals"), it probably isn't as the 20th best player of all time, as Bill Simmons suggested in his book.

    EDIT: Oh yeah, and also that time is running short for him to reinforce his historical standing, since his MPG since he came into the league is off the charts and is catching up to him sooner rather than later.

    Form of Monkey! on
  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    I do wonder how much the MPG is going to catch up. How much more stress is being put on his body via an NBA schedule then an NCAA one? Its not as though NBA stars werent playing basketball before they became rookies, Lebron just played PRO basketball sooner. But its not like he got 4 extra years of wear and tear on him that he wouldnt have if he went to college or what not.

    This isnt a "i dont think it matters post" I do literally wonder how much that impact has. Whether or not the differences between the pro and college game add signifigant wear and tear to his body at a younger age. Obviously the extra high MPG through those years probably would. But the dude is a physical freak, I think he can take quite a bit more then most NBA players.

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  • y2jake215y2jake215 The No Flex ZoneRegistered User regular
    edited May 2012
    NCAA plays significantly fewer games and each game is 8 minutes shorter, with lesser competition/overall athleticism on the other teams, and it isn't yet the players' livelihood, so I'd wager there probably would be a measurable stress level difference between a year of college hoops and NBA

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  • UnknownSaintUnknownSaint Registered User
    I'm going to guess that LeBron will, for the most part, remain absurdly resilient and defy his age and mileage as his career goes on. I don't think he'll be injury-free his entire career, but I'm thinking he'll end up as one of those outliers before anything else.

  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    Simmons had Lebron 20th all-time?

    Was that at the time he wrote it, or a prediction for where Lebron would be on the day he retires?

    Because if it's the latter, that's ridiculously low for Lebron. He's already cracked the top 20 all-time.

  • y2jake215y2jake215 The No Flex ZoneRegistered User regular
    edited May 2012
    The book's premise was top whatever players based on their careers to date at the time he wrote it, not his predictions for where they end up, from what I remember

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  • jackisrealjackisreal Registered User
    Yeah. He moved Kobe up to 8, and that was before he won his fifth ring.

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  • TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    And I think he moved Dirk up as well after his title last year. And obviously Chris Paul will be moved from 96th down quite a few spots over the next few years.

  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Paul @ 96th? Just how old is this list?

    (and does anyone have a link to it?)


    edit: wait, is this the list?

    http://www.bareknucks.com/bill-simmons96-greatest-nba-players-ever
    96. Tom Chambers
    95. Jo Jo White
    94. Jack Twyman
    93. Kevin Johnson
    92. Bob Lanier
    91. Dwight Howard
    90. Chris Paul
    89. Shawn Kemp
    88. Gail Goodrich
    87. Connie Hawkins
    86. Arvydas Sabonis
    85. Robert Horry

    LMAO, is he serious? Robert Horry is better than CP3 or Dwight or Kemp or freaking Sabas?!

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  • y2jake215y2jake215 The No Flex ZoneRegistered User regular
    edited May 2012
    The book came out in Oct. 2009, so Paul had only played 3 seasons. Since it's listing the top basketball players of all time, it's not too ridiculous

    e: link http://www.nbadraft.net/node/16527

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  • PellaeonPellaeon Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Beat'd

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  • y2jake215y2jake215 The No Flex ZoneRegistered User regular
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Paul @ 96th? Just how old is this list?

    (and does anyone have a link to it?)


    edit: wait, is this the list?

    http://www.bareknucks.com/bill-simmons96-greatest-nba-players-ever
    96. Tom Chambers
    95. Jo Jo White
    94. Jack Twyman
    93. Kevin Johnson
    92. Bob Lanier
    91. Dwight Howard
    90. Chris Paul
    89. Shawn Kemp
    88. Gail Goodrich
    87. Connie Hawkins
    86. Arvydas Sabonis
    85. Robert Horry

    LMAO, is he serious? Robert Horry is better than CP3 or Dwight or Kemp or freaking Sabas?!

    You have to keep in mind this is a list of the greatest players ever. Not "most ability" ever. Dwight and CP3 had played 4 and 3 seasons. The whole list is skewed towards people who had already played full careers, and towards winning more titles. It's worth reading the book, it's cheap enough now and he gives justification for his decisions

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  • Pirate ViperPirate Viper Registered User regular
    I think with the advances we are seeing in sports medicine, with shit like Kobe going to germany and suddenly leading the league in MPG after 16 seasons it's not unreasonable to suggest that we could see the same from James.

    Also it's worth checking out the Simmons book just to see his logic in arguing for the ranking of the players.

  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    The book came out in Oct. 2009, so Paul had only played 3 seasons. Since it's listing the top basketball players of all time, it's not too ridiculous

    e: link http://www.nbadraft.net/node/16527

    By 2009 Kemp and Sabas were both retired, and Simmons had Horry ahead of them too. 7 pts, 5 reb, 0x All-Star, 0x All-NBA, 0x All-Defense.

    Yeah, he's got a lot of rings. Great. So does whoever played next to Bill Russell (Satch Sanders, Locsy, Frank Ramsey).
    jackisreal wrote: »

    Yeah, and in the update he gave Horry an even better ranking. One which still puts him ahead of Paul, Kemp, and Sabas.

    I suppose if OKC wins this year, the next version will have Derek Fisher on it.

This discussion has been closed.