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[Presidential Election Thread] Veto form Mtit!
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Politifact on the 4 billion figure
This CBO from 2011 lists at least 3.6 billion explicitly specific to oil and gas according to my math, which does not include ethanol mixing/development.
Bottom line is its a substantial subsidy or series of tax breaks explicitly for a hugely profitable industry
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
I don't see the purpose of that metric. The profitability of reselling stolen goods is pretty good too, but it's not a better business to be in than the global oil market. It certainly doesn't make it more relevant for the purposes of discussing government subsidies than the size of an industry.
My favorite part though, the quote at the end.
Translation: Oh God I'm irrelevant already, REMEMBER ME
But drugs, man.
I wonder if there is an industry bigger than oil. I think corn is, but I'm not sure.
Yeah . . . he's going to have to do a lot better than that. The hounds will be loosed up him for sure if he doesn't schedule a press conference pretty soon.
Once again proving his completely unfamiliarity with politics at all.
How Santorum failed this simple task just gives another example that he isn't ready for the big time in politics.
Dont forget about Big Coal. They stay under wraps but most electricity in thw US
I don't think he failed this. I think he just didn't want to.
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Aye, that's a big 'un, too. I think "Big Oil" is still bigger than coal because of how much its used outside of electricity.
I think Coal is more evil, though.
drug dealers have the highest profit margins
I kinda agree with MuddBudd; Santorum is just being Santorum, the same irascible prick with no concern for anything other than his own political agenda that he's been for a decade or more.
He's a scary sort because he doesn't play by the old rules of conduct. He wants what he wants, and doesn't really care if he fucks the party over for it.
Depends on which part of the line you are talking about.
The guys on the street have incredible thin profit margins
And the guys who pump gas aren't usually considered "part of the oil industry" by anyone except their grandmothers.
It's not really surprising. He's been on the political fringe for a long time now and got unceremoniously booted out of PA when his radical rhetoric finally caught up with him, only to suddenly find his 15 min of political fame on the primary trail. Not easy to walk away from that chance, especially to cede his support to a boring wallflower like Romney.
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Oh, it can't be, but god do I hope it is.
Porn.
I did read the report you linked. It has a very nice little table that breaks down energy subsidies by industry. That's where I got the $300 million number for oil subsidies.
@Burtletoy: So sorry that I assumed "oil subsidies" meant "just oil subsidies" and didn't go and lump in coal, nuclear power and natural gas while leaving out renewables for some arbitrary reason.
At any rate, Pants had a much better and more current source, which bumps the number up to $3.1b assuming I can do basic math.
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/03-06-FuelsandEnergy_Brief.pdf
The section titled "Reducing External Costs Through the Tax System" is actually a really good read, and provides a much better rationale for removing the subsidies than "Hey, they're too profitable."
Honestly I see this as nothing but a good thing for Romney. Does he really want to be strongly associated with Santorum?
Hahaha, that's a great mental image.
ROMNEY: Okay, so you'll send out a message to get your supporters on side?
SANTORUM: Sure thing, Mitt, sure thing. Want me to have a big press conference? I bet we can make a lot of noise on this one.
(ROMNEY looks nervous.)
ROMNEY: We've, uh, already typed something up for you.
So you admit it is not an arbitrary reason?
I thought everyone understood the arguments for and against any kind of industry subsidy - talking about the profitability of the industry in question serves to highlight the absurdity, not stand in for the logic itself.
Maybe you don't understand those arguments though, which is why you would consider excluding renewables from the discussion 'arbitrary'. Let me detail it for you.
A relatively acceptable justification for subsidizing a particular industry is to encourage the growth and development of that industry. We were probably right in doing that for fossil fuels decades ago when it was just beginning to provide the benefits it does to humanity, not so much a century later when the industry can take care of itself pretty damn well. Renewable energy still has quite a few innovations ahead of it though, and some would say giving money to the company that may develop a better kind of battery is better than further contributing towards the profit margins of an industry that accounts for like 15% of all global trade.
So like I've said before, with all the deficit hawk Teapers that regularly give the older party-Republicans a hard time on these matters, I think it would be wise for the Dems to push this issue. I really doubt that the GOP will cross the oil interests, but you can at least undermine their credibility and steal some of the spotlight as the party that cares about the budget.
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It's a pretty damn good one, but not really good enough for some.
It also doesn't help that a lot of industries will essentially hold jobs hostage in a particular area to put pressure on members of Congress to follow their political agenda. You vote to end this subsidy, we close down a plant in your district. Welcome to politics! It's things like that that are often behind some of the more mystifying factoids when you really get down into who's getting money from where.
While true, in terms of total profits, the collective oil industry brings in something like $250,000,000,000 each year (out of somewhere between 1 and 2 trillion in revenue). They have just a ludicrous amount of money.
Some crazy woman called Obama a traitor, Mitt Romney smiled and nodded.
Some lady at a Romney town-hall meeting accused Obama of treason, and Romney just smiled and nodded; when confronted with a similar incident in the 2008 campaign, McCain had the basic decency to confront the person.
During the 2008 election, some woman at a town hall meeting called Obama a Muslim. I don't recall if she called him a foreigner, too. McCain displayed some class and corrected her, saying that he knew him to be a good man and a Christian.
Fast forward to just now, when some woman at a town hall for Mittens declares that Obama should be tried for treason. Mittens does nothing to set her straight.
I think it's a reference to Romney not correcting the town-hall questioner who said that Obama should be tried for treason. Compare to McCain refuting a questioner's assertion that Obama was a Muslim/Arab (I forget which) to her face.
Then if they complain, you could just be like "Big Oil said they couldn't afford to keep Plant #213 open, and yet somehow Big Oil just gave over 2 billion dollars in bonuses to their top executives. You don't have to be a math teacher to know that the numbers don't match." in a commercial.
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It was just his servos running a diagnostic.
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Remember when McCain told some crazy lady at a town hall meeting to tone down her crazy rhetoric? A different crazy lady at a town hall meeting just told Romney she thinks Obama should be tried for treason and he just ignored it.
EDIT: Holy hell. That'll teach me to respond without hitting F5 first.
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