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The Avengers! or why a Justice League film can't succeed!

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Posts

  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Registered User regular
    Buttlord wrote: »
    man what was that comic about the soldiers on the dinosaur island

    i wanna read THAT

    DC's The War Time Forgot.

    They've got a showcase of it. 500 pages for less than 20 bucks.

    It's pretty great.

    The first issues are brutal. Almost everyone gets killed by dinosaurs. The "heroes" are just the guys the dinosaurs don't eat.

    Later issues turn down the random, senseless death in favor of raw crazy. You'd think that just dinosaurs V. the army would be enough. This is why you are not Robert Kanigher. Every issue combines dinosaurs with another crazy plot, like a family of stunt skiers who were assigned the same unit and all but the youngest go snowblind, so they can't see the dinosaurs. (A typical issue)

    If that didn't sell you, (doubtful), this might:

    G.I. Robot.

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  • ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    i love the silver age

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    http://comicschat.tumblr.com/ - Buttlord Chats about Comics
  • TrippyJingTrippyJing Moses supposes his toeses are roses. But Moses supposes erroneously.Registered User regular
    I would post Lady Darkseid right now if I was actually on my computer.

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  • WeaverWeaver send help pirates have meRegistered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Anyone here read Avengers Assemble #3 yet?
    Spoiler:

    Is Assemble even in 616? Because
    Spoiler:

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  • CorporateLogoCorporateLogo The toilet knows how I feelRegistered User regular
    Bendis cares not for past interpretations of your puny characters

    Do not have a cow, mortal.

    3DS: 2251-4432-9039

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Death Groupie Registered User regular
    Buttlord wrote: »
    Details, my man. Why am I wrong.

    Langly wrote: »
    They very much introduce the atom earlier in news clippings.

    Furthermore, the whole god dang point of new frontier is that it's a love letter/concise retelling of the golden age of comics. They reference a huge amount of characters that you are supposed to know already. That's the idea.

    this is like walking into the avengers and going dang why does that guy have a hammer and talk weird who is this
    No it isn't.

    They give plenty of information about Thor: he's an Asgardian and the brother of the main villian. His people are powerful enough that they are essentially gods. He can control lightning. He's here to try and stop Loki and take him back home, because dispite what Loki has and will do, he still loves him. We have backstory and motivation. Ray Palmer got niether. Just a generic "He's a scientist" from what I remember. He just shows up, hands off the plot device and calls it a day. But even disregarding that, the situations are not similar at all.

    It'd be more akin to watching the Avengers, having it presented exactly as it is, only with some extra news clippings at one point with Reed Richards on them. Then Reed Richards show up right before the final battle, hands off the Ultimate Nullifier to Tony Stark, who then uses it to kill the baddies and save the day. People are going to be "WTF?"

    And "it's a love letter to blah blah blah" isn't a a good answer: the movie should be able to stand on it's own merits, espcially if it's presented as a stand-alone product.. ESPECIALLY if we're talking about using it for the basis of a Justice League movie, which is where this conversation started.

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  • TrippyJingTrippyJing Moses supposes his toeses are roses. But Moses supposes erroneously.Registered User regular
    Never mind, found it.

    nQOS3.gif

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  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    Assemble is pretty much the "Astonishing X-men" of the Avengers franchise right now. It's supposed to be new reader friendly.

  • WeaverWeaver send help pirates have meRegistered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Assemble is pretty much the "Astonishing X-men" of the Avengers franchise right now. It's supposed to be new reader friendly.

    This does give me an idea.
    Spoiler:

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  • ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    Buttlord wrote: »
    Details, my man. Why am I wrong.

    Langly wrote: »
    They very much introduce the atom earlier in news clippings.

    Furthermore, the whole god dang point of new frontier is that it's a love letter/concise retelling of the golden age of comics. They reference a huge amount of characters that you are supposed to know already. That's the idea.

    this is like walking into the avengers and going dang why does that guy have a hammer and talk weird who is this
    No it isn't.

    They give plenty of information about Thor: he's an Asgardian and the brother of the main villian. His people are powerful enough that they are essentially gods. He can control lightning. He's here to try and stop Loki and take him back home, because dispite what Loki has and will do, he still loves him. We have backstory and motivation. Ray Palmer got niether. Just a generic "He's a scientist" from what I remember. He just shows up, hands off the plot device and calls it a day. But even disregarding that, the situations are not similar at all.

    It'd be more akin to watching the Avengers, having it presented exactly as it is, only with some extra news clippings at one point with Reed Richards on them. Then Reed Richards show up right before the final battle, hands off the Ultimate Nullifier to Tony Stark, who then uses it to kill the baddies and save the day. People are going to be "WTF?"

    And "it's a love letter to blah blah blah" isn't a a good answer: the movie should be able to stand on it's own merits, espcially if it's presented as a stand-alone product.. ESPECIALLY if we're talking about using it for the basis of a Justice League movie, which is where this conversation started.

    a) i'm almost positive people are talking tonally not literally "just do it like new frontier"

    b) my point is you're expected to know who these people are in the avengers much like you're expected to have a passing familiarity with the golden and silver ages and furthermore you're wrong because new frontier kicks ass and you are a goose

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    http://comicschat.tumblr.com/ - Buttlord Chats about Comics
  • LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    I loved that when it came out, so good.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Death Groupie Registered User regular
    Hulk is just being crass there, yo.

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  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Registered User regular
    Buttlord wrote: »
    i love the silver age

    Oh yeah.

    I didn't even mention Mace and Morgan.

    They're a two man suicide squad team. Mace is an ex-olympic bobsledder who cost the country the medal and his partner his life when he froze up.

    Morgan is the brother of Mace's bobsledding partner. And he is just a tremendous dick. Nothing will convince him Mace won't freeze up. So he constantly shoves a gun in Mace's back and tells him if he doesn't complete the mission, he'll be murdered.

    Mace regularly kills dinosaurs. This does nothing to convince Morgan he isn't a coward who needs to be shot. Mace, meanwhile, never reports any of this to the higher ups.

    It's great.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Assemble is pretty much the "Astonishing X-men" of the Avengers franchise right now. It's supposed to be new reader friendly.

    Is it reader friendly if it doesn't match up with other titles? Won't that just confuse new readers when they expand their horizons into other series?

  • LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    Buttlord wrote: »
    Details, my man. Why am I wrong.

    Langly wrote: »
    They very much introduce the atom earlier in news clippings.

    Furthermore, the whole god dang point of new frontier is that it's a love letter/concise retelling of the golden age of comics. They reference a huge amount of characters that you are supposed to know already. That's the idea.

    this is like walking into the avengers and going dang why does that guy have a hammer and talk weird who is this
    No it isn't.

    They give plenty of information about Thor: he's an Asgardian and the brother of the main villian. His people are powerful enough that they are essentially gods. He can control lightning. He's here to try and stop Loki and take him back home, because dispite what Loki has and will do, he still loves him. We have backstory and motivation. Ray Palmer got niether. Just a generic "He's a scientist" from what I remember. He just shows up, hands off the plot device and calls it a day. But even disregarding that, the situations are not similar at all.

    It'd be more akin to watching the Avengers, having it presented exactly as it is, only with some extra news clippings at one point with Reed Richards on them. Then Reed Richards show up right before the final battle, hands off the Ultimate Nullifier to Tony Stark, who then uses it to kill the baddies and save the day. People are going to be "WTF?"

    And "it's a love letter to blah blah blah" isn't a a good answer: the movie should be able to stand on it's own merits, espcially if it's presented as a stand-alone product.. ESPECIALLY if we're talking about using it for the basis of a Justice League movie, which is where this conversation started.

    The entire plot of the movie is that the superhero community is banding together to face a giant threat. Ray Palmer is mentioned several times in the film, and the whole thrust of the last battle is that all of these dudes are coming together, not just the central Justice League. The movie is about community. It focuses on several pillars of that community, but the last battle is about the group as a whole finally leaving their separate lives and forming a coherent world.

    The story is literally about the formation of the DC continuity. Palmer comes in because Batman is shown to know about him, and forms a complicated plan that uses all of the heroes' skills to pull off (flash to implement, atom to design, lantern and fighters to go inside, and the larger group to engage the dinosaurs etc.).

    It isn't a deus ex machina, because that term means that something entirely alien to the plot of the story comes out of the sky to save the heroes. This specifically does not happen. The theme of a large community is coherent through the entire story, and the final battle is the culmination of that.

  • CorporateLogoCorporateLogo The toilet knows how I feelRegistered User regular
    The movie did lose a lot of good stuff from the book, in particular the John Henry Irons story

    Do not have a cow, mortal.

    3DS: 2251-4432-9039

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Death Groupie Registered User regular
    Buttlord wrote: »
    a) i'm almost positive people are talking tonally not literally "just do it like new frontier"
    Wasn't I the one who started this conversation with "Maybe they could use the center from New Frontier, only taken out in a far less crappy fashion?" :P In fact, I don't think anyone actually followed up on the idea itself: they just took issue with my stance. :D So no, I wasn't talking tonally.
    b) my point is you're expected to know who these people are in the avengers much like you're expected to have a passing familiarity with the golden and silver ages and furthermore you're wrong because new frontier kicks ass and you are a goose
    Uh, actually, no you're not. They specifically wrote the Avengers so that you can watch it if you haven't seen the previous five movies. Every character has their motivations and personalities explain or shown. You're comparing the starring characters to a character that, had he not just shown up to deliver a plot device, would have amounted to a cameo.

    Actually, there's my issue: the plot was decided by a cameo. And more importantly it could have been avoided. Just a scene or two showing off Palmer building the device, and explain why he's building the damn thing. He doesn't even have backstory, let alone an arc, which would be okay if the entire plot didn't wind up riding on him.

    I'm sorry I disagree with how a movie you really like ended. It was a pretty good film aside from the flimsy way they beat the final boss, and I would not like to see it repeated if they decided to use the center in a Justice League movie.

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  • AntimatterAntimatter if you want to talk to me look elsewhere.Registered User regular
    TrippyJing wrote: »
    Never mind, found it.

    nQOS3.gif

    Time to kneel before darkseid

  • BedigunzBedigunz Registered User regular
    My ideal DC movie would be World's Finest for the first movie. No need to really establish the origins of Batman and Superman, but show them doing their own thing in their respective cities (sort of like Kirk and Spock at the beginning of the new Star Trek film).

    Have two of their rogues come together for a bigger plot, then have Batman and Superman team up. They can allude to run ins with other characters in the universes, but not use specific names. Then at the end, they mention that they should start a team.

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  • MysstMysst King Monkey of Hedonism IslandRegistered User regular
    Antimatter wrote: »
    TrippyJing wrote: »
    Never mind, found it.

    nQOS3.gif

    Time to kneel before darkseid

    still sounds like michael ironside, though

  • AntimatterAntimatter if you want to talk to me look elsewhere.Registered User regular
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Death Groupie Registered User regular
    Years of Venture Bros has gotten me used to women with manly voices.

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  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Mysst wrote: »
    Antimatter wrote: »
    TrippyJing wrote: »
    Never mind, found it.

    nQOS3.gif

    Time to kneel before darkseid

    still sounds like michael ironside, though

    So Grandpa goodness sounds like Mary Tyler Moore?

  • BedigunzBedigunz Registered User regular
    Mysst wrote: »
    Antimatter wrote: »
    TrippyJing wrote: »
    Never mind, found it.

    nQOS3.gif

    Time to kneel before darkseid

    still sounds like michael ironside, though

    I see no downside if she plays with my omega beams

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  • SirEtchwartsSirEtchwarts JOIN THE NINTENDO FUN CLUB TODAY, MACRegistered User regular
    So that Avengers is a pretty good movie.

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    Steam
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  • WeaverWeaver send help pirates have meRegistered User regular
    I'll spoiler this because of the movie, but I'm re-reading
    Spoiler:

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Death Groupie Registered User regular
    I like the idea of starting with a worlds finest movie. Would keep them from looking like they're aping Marvel (which I know DC hates to look like they're doing) and you can get away with not doing origins for the two of them.

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  • ZonugalZonugal Freelance Bio-Exorcist Adam Maitland's Model TownRegistered User regular
    I still don't know if I would like doing a Justice League film than doing a whole bunch of solo films.

    Just seems weird. We wouldn't be able to pull from different solo story-lines, we'd be cut off from past references, jokes and cameos.

    Just seems odd.

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  • ZonugalZonugal Freelance Bio-Exorcist Adam Maitland's Model TownRegistered User regular
    Also, I would love a Flash movie with him against his rogue gallery (which is amazing).

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  • BedigunzBedigunz Registered User regular
    It definitely worked for Marvel, but that doesn't mean a different way couldn't work for DC. The main problem right now is that the DC films keep staggering so they can't get their heroes all in the same shared universe.

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  • XehalusXehalus Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    well how many Superman movies have they made

    it doesn't seem like Wonder Woman can get past TV

    everyone knows Batman and Green Lantern

    the general public wouldn't recognize the rest of the crew, which are mostly Wonder Twin and Aquaman jokes

    Xehalus on
  • WeaverWeaver send help pirates have meRegistered User regular
  • MysstMysst King Monkey of Hedonism IslandRegistered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Also, I would love a Flash movie with him against his rogue gallery (which is amazing).

    Flash. You're tied to a very large boomerang.

    Yeah?

  • sarukunsarukun Gornlord Interplanetary InsanitariumRegistered User regular
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    Seriously though that shawarma. There's a place near here that has 5 different regional variations on it. I just had "The Lebanese" which was chicken, lettuce, garlic sauce, and fries. Amaaaaaazing.

    That sounds fucking incredible.

  • sarukunsarukun Gornlord Interplanetary InsanitariumRegistered User regular
    TrippyJing wrote: »
    Never mind, found it.

    nQOS3.gif

    You've shattered my mind.

  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    I would argue that Darkseid is actually better without all the New God baggage

    Kirby is fun as hell but it is impossible to take a lot of his stuff seriously

    How do you do Darkseid without "New Gods baggage"?

    That's like doing Superman without "Krypton baggage".

    so, any movie with Darkseid has to have Black Racer and Metron and Scott Free and Big Barda, and has to be really silver-agey and ridiculous?

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    and I broke parole just to get to you
  • sarukunsarukun Gornlord Interplanetary InsanitariumRegistered User regular
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus I didn't want to wake you up but I really want to show you somethingRegistered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    Shorty wrote: »
    I would argue that Darkseid is actually better without all the New God baggage

    Kirby is fun as hell but it is impossible to take a lot of his stuff seriously

    How do you do Darkseid without "New Gods baggage"?

    That's like doing Superman without "Krypton baggage".

    so, any movie with Darkseid has to have Black Racer and Metron and Scott Free and Big Barda, and has to be really silver-agey and ridiculous?

    It has to have at least one other New God for Darkseid to talk to, like Granny Goodness or Desaad or Glorious Godfrey

    It also has to have a planet named Apokolips with continent-sized fire pits

    Not to mention it has to feature the line "the tiger-force at the core of all things"

    Well, that last one is just something I really want to happen

  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Okay... This looks bad.Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Okay I guess I am seeing this for a third time tonight

    I guess I can roll with that

    Grey Ghost on
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This discussion has been closed.