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How do you tell someone his gf is crazy?

AnomeAnome Registered User regular
edited May 2012 in Help / Advice Forum
I have a friend named Ben. Almost a year ago, he met a girl named Julie and they immediately started dating. He started bringing her to hang out with friends, as is a normal thing to do, but we quickly realized that "normal" had no real place with this girl. The first party we went to that she attended, she heavily insinuated that she was into me and tried to talk me into some sort of group sex involving me, her, Ben, and my boyfriend. I tried a tactful "thanks but no thanks" which she kind of pouted about but seemed to move on. Later that night she decided that the best course of action would be to corner me in the kitchen in front of a group of people and try to take off my shirt. It was an uncomfortable moment to say the least. Ben obviously knew about this, it wasn't exactly a subtle move, and after Julie wouldn't listen (she was too drunk to reason with, a common occurrence) I tried to tell him it made me uncomfortable but the newness of the relationship (or something) allowed him to look past it. It never really happened again to me but she has moved on since then to another mutual friend, Ryan.

Ryan and Ben have been friends for years and so spend a lot of time hanging out. During that time, Julie always gravitates toward Ryan and has recently told him that she's in love with him. She has assured him that Ben knows and that it's totally cool if they do things. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not judging her based on non-monogamy if it's consensual. I'm judging her because Ryan has repeatedly told her "no, this makes me very uncomfortable and you need to move on" and she responds by crying, telling him that she loves and respects him more than anyone in the world, and that she doesn't understand why he can't just be with her.

I'm getting the feeling that there's almost no one she hasn't hit on in our friend group and it's starting to really bother people. Ben is losing friends because they can't stand to be around Julie and she's always there. Within a month she was at his house probably half the time, maybe more. Within 2 months she was all but moved in. By 3, officially living there. If Ben wanted to stay late at school to study, she'd cry and say she can't be alone.

Ben is a musician and until recently he was going to school for it (he just graduated). Before Julie, he was not the most motivated person but he would be in bands, jam with friends, and teach. In short, he was doing what he wanted to do. Now the two of them just sleep all day and drink all night. She's so bad for him, it's painful to see what 11 months has done. We didn't speak up earlier because we didn't think he'd possibly be able to stand her for this long. Now it looks like he's just accepted that this is the way life is going to be and I don't know if he'll ever snap out of it. How do you tell someone that his girlfriend is crazy and his friends are avoiding him because of it?

(This is a short overview of the situation, there is more crazy to be had but I had to pick a few key things. All names changed to protect the innocent, guilty, and insane alike. If ages matter, Ben is 23 and Julie is 24.)

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  • SkeithSkeith Registered User regular
    Call him up, ask him if he can get away from her for a couple hours. He seems like a pretty easygoing guy from your post, but there isn't a whole lot to go on there. The best you can do is to just tell him about the patterns you've noticed about his life since he's met this girl, like the excessive drinking, the lack of music, and losing friends. Is he head over heels for her, or what? You might want to get other mutual friends there with you, but only a small group-- you and two or three other people. You don't want to tear him to pieces, just inform him on her unhealthy behavior and how it's damaging his life and driving people away.

    mts wrote: »
    heres how i see it being a total win situation for you
    1. stay with your wife while she dog sits. this wins husband points since she knows its out of your comfort zone
    2. have sex all over her friends house so that the next time you see her friend look at you condescendingly, you can wink back knowing you did the freaky deaky where she eats her cheerios.
  • SiskaSiska Registered User regular
    You need to have a talk with him and find out why he is with her? Is this how he wants his life and relationship to be? I don't know him, but it's always possible that he would gravitate towards becoming a deadbeat drunk even if she wasn't there. If this isn't what he wants then why is he with her? Love her too much? In too much denial? Too much of a non confrontational doormat and can't bring himself to dumping her? In the end the decision is his, but you do need to tell him how her extreme behavior is making everyone uncomfortable and that people are now avoiding him because of it. In case he hasn't figured that out himself.

    Izuela.png
  • DarlanDarlan Registered User regular
    By all means, tactfully voice your concerns, *especially* about the drinking and not being as active. In the end though, it's up to him who he wants to spend his time with and how he wants to spend that time. Sometimes people drift apart because of incompatible significant others, it happens a lot at that age range.

    PSN: Toids42
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    She sounds creepy. If a man behaved to your female friends like she is doing to your male friends, then he'd be seeing some restraining orders. You might as well tell your friend what you honestly think, because it doesn't sound like your friendship is going to last much longer anyway.

  • mythagomythago Registered User regular
    You don't say "your girlfriend is crazy and that's why we're blowing you off". The first thing is attacking someone he loves, and the second is giving him a reason to cling more tightly to the girlfriend, since he doesn't have friends anymore, right?

    Does he actually know she's hitting on his friends?

    Without attacking her as crazy, you can calmly tell him that you are concerned about both him and Julie, that her behavior has been problematic and that you are finding it difficult to be a good friend to him given her behavior. You're concerned about both of them, here are things that have changed, and you are ready to help. In other words, make it not about "your girlfriend's a nutjob" but "hey, you guys have these problems". He can admit 'we' have problems.

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  • AnomeAnome Registered User regular
    Oh he definitely knows everything. Last night was a whole new level of her openly ignoring him in favour of Ryan. We're talking cutting Ben off mid-sentence to ask Ryan's opinion on basically every other thing and sulking if she got brushed off or anything close. Then when she knew Ryan and I had to go because the last bus was coming, she started slowly tying her shoes and panicking because she might not be able to walk with us to the bus stop. Then there was the dramatic taking off of the shoes, throwing her hands up in frustration, and saying "fine, just go. No seriously, go, I'll be fine here. It's just that I really wanted to talk to you but whatever." Ben was witness to the whole thing and just stood back and watched it happen, the biggest reaction from him being a shrug of the shoulders and a slightly confused and helpless look at me and Ryan. I'm starting to think he knows she's nuts and has just accepted where he is - he's one of those guys who is laid back to the point of seeming to not care about much of anything. We've asked him point blank what he thinks of his girlfriend seeming to prefer someone else, openly stating that she loves his best friend more than him, and he has said he doesn't care. I don't know how to combat that type of apathy.

    She was so drunk last night. We had all gone to play hockey earlier in the day and she was definitely drinking by then (beer plus slurpee. Ick, but beside the point). Then there was the coolers, more beer, and a bottle of wine. I don't exactly like this girl but I'm starting to worry for her health. This situation sucks and I'm starting to get a little ranty.

    The good news is that Julie is insisting on a girls' night out, which is significant because she realizes that will mean a whole night without Ben. I have realized this as well so I've suggested to my boyfriend that he and our other male friends to take Ben on a guys' night out involving an awesome show with an amazing drummer (he's a drummer) to maybe motivate him just a little bit. Everyone we've spoken to so far is on board with the idea and I think the tentative plan is for the guys to talk to him then. It won't be too many people, maybe 3. Enough for him to know it's not just one person worried about him but hopefully not so much that he'll feel ganged up on. They're definitely planning on focussing on the behaviours (sleeping til 7pm, overindulgence in alcohol and hallucinogens, and skipping auditions in favour of the previous two) with a light mention of the relationship. If it doesn't work then hopefully they'll at least gain some insight into how his mind is working about this whole thing. I feel like it's not even love at this point, just apathy and familiarity.

  • HotandnerdyHotandnerdy Registered User
    Thats really really hard. Be honest....dont be a jerk about it...and be suddle. Hopefully he will figure it out.

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  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    Maybe the guy feels trapped? What's the money situation like? It sounds like Ben is a recent college grad, unemployed with a music major? That's rough for anyone.

    It sounds to me like the guy is really depressed and doesn't know what to do now. I know I had a lot of that when I graduated and didn't jump right into my dream job.

    Maybe the best thing your friends could do for him is get him a decent job and a place to stay while he figures himself out. That's asking quite a bit, of course. You'd really be putting yourself out there.

    "The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us."
    Spoiler:
    -Theodore Roosevelt
  • AnomeAnome Registered User regular
    He's okay financially if only because he's still living at his mom's house rent-free. Also, it turns out I was wrong about him graduating, he still has a year of school left because he wants to get his teaching certificate. Julie is technically being charged rent but she doesn't have a job either and Ben's mom is a pushover so she's being allowed to not pay when she can't, which is always cause she's not working either.

    As for him getting a job, he's had auditions scheduled but he won't get off his ass and actually go to them. It's like he's motivated enough to apply but when it comes time to actually get on a bus and go somewhere, that is far too much effort. It pisses me off because he recently skipped an audition for a prog rock band that he would have been perfect for. We can't help him get a job if he won't help himself.

    She won't get any job that won't pay her under the table because she's decided she doesn't want any dealings with the government ever because they're evil so she doesn't want to deal with her several years of back taxes even though she'd probably get a significant refund, so she's decided that by never having a job or anything in her own name, she can hide from them. Also she's dating a musician but still aspires to be a housewife.

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Do these people have any good points? Do you enjoy spending time with them? Because it doesn't sound like Ben is any fun even without his girlfriend. He sounds like a bit of a loser, and you can't fix his life for him. Why not just quietly stop inviting them to stuff?

  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan Registered User regular
    You don't do anything. There are no instances in recorded history of someone listening when their friends tell them 'dude your significant other is batshit insane and ruining your life'. Okay I exaggerate, there are maybe like 5 instances or something.

    OooOOOoOoOOOooOOOoOOOoOoOOoOOoOOOOOOOOoooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooo
  • BelketreBelketre Registered User regular
    This may well be terrible and underhanded, but when I was much younger I had a friend with a girlfriend a lot like this. She hit on every single one of his friends, and he didn't seem to care because she had apparently cast some evil succubus spell on him. He didn't care because his actual friends weren't complete douchebags and always turned her down.

    So, what did we do? We befriended a complete and utter douche who was one of the groups cousin. A guy who was so shifty you'd expect he would steal from his dead grandmothers casket, and hung out with him. Nobody could stand the guy, but he was there to serve a purpose. We knew by about the second or third time she met him, she would take the bait.

    Our friends attitude changed a whole lot when his girlfriend was actually banging another guy. He wasn't apathetic about it at all, and gave her the boot. The act also gave us an easy out for not hanging around with Mr shifty any more either.

    Something to consider, possibly.... :)

  • AnomeAnome Registered User regular
    Hmm I don't know about the underhandedness. It seems most likely that if the guys' night out doesn't work, we might have to stop inviting him to things. It's a shame because before this girl, he really was a pretty cool guy. Less motivated than some, but he was willing to come hang out and was a very interesting person to talk to. It seems like all of his good qualities have been sucked out of him. It might become tough love time - if he's not going to be a person worth hanging out with, people will stop hanging out with him.

    Sad but such is life. I should have known better than to hope there was a magic phrase I could use to bring him to his senses.

  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    Who he dates isn't any of your business.

    If he wants to talk about his relationship then let him, but believe you me, if you tell him she is dragging him down he'll tell you to fuck off.

    If anything your post rings of someone who has plans for this guy and you're disappointed that he is not following the life you planned out for him.

  • KarlKarl Registered User regular
    Blake T wrote: »
    Who he dates isn't any of your business.

    If he wants to talk about his relationship then let him, but believe you me, if you tell him she is dragging him down he'll tell you to fuck off.

    If anything your post rings of someone who has plans for this guy and you're disappointed that he is not following the life you planned out for him.

    I disagree with Blake's last point, I think you're just worried about him. But the first two points are the truth. Be there if he needs to talk, but you've got to let him make his own mistakes.

    Also, I'm assuming this girl is proper fit because why the fuck else would he put up with this bullshit?

    Spoiler:
  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    Karl wrote: »
    Blake T wrote: »
    Who he dates isn't any of your business.

    If he wants to talk about his relationship then let him, but believe you me, if you tell him she is dragging him down he'll tell you to fuck off.

    If anything your post rings of someone who has plans for this guy and you're disappointed that he is not following the life you planned out for him.

    I disagree with Blake's last point, I think you're just worried about him. But the first two points are the truth. Be there if he needs to talk, but you've got to let him make his own mistakes.

    Also, I'm assuming this girl is proper fit because why the fuck else would he put up with this bullshit?

    Well, I've been that guy in the past. Not to that extent, but my then-gf definitely hated 95% of all my friends and even though she herself is a great person, we were shit for each other and drug each other down.

    There are some things a young man just has to experience (sadly). The importance of love and what it means is very ingrained in society and artistic types are more prone to (what basically amounts to heaps of bullshit) than others.

    He might just have to hit bottom on this one to figure it all out. I don't recommend holding his hand during the fall, but maybe help him pick up the pieces when he inevitably realizes what he's been doing.

    "The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us."
    Spoiler:
    -Theodore Roosevelt
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    Tell him. Tell him how his girlfriend has effected the group dynamic, how you think it has effected him personally, and how the group is likely going to distance itself from the two of them because of it.

    HOWEVER...

    The reason for you to tell him these things is not to expect any kind of change. Or really, any other reaction other then him being completely pissed at you. The reason to tell him is because it will likely make you feel better, and to prove to yourself that you've done your due diligence as a friend, even if it was the last act of friendship you performed. Who knows, maybe he will wise up and come to his senses, that's typically not how this goes, but at the very least you all will be able to sleep at night knowing you at least tried.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • mythagomythago Registered User regular
    Anome wrote: »
    Hmm I don't know about the underhandedness. It seems most likely that if the guys' night out doesn't work, we might have to stop inviting him to things. It's a shame because before this girl, he really was a pretty cool guy. Less motivated than some, but he was willing to come hang out and was a very interesting person to talk to. It seems like all of his good qualities have been sucked out of him. It might become tough love time - if he's not going to be a person worth hanging out with, people will stop hanging out with him.

    Sad but such is life. I should have known better than to hope there was a magic phrase I could use to bring him to his senses.

    Okay, so, the problem is not really "this girl is emotionally abusive and backstabbing", the problem is "waah, my friend isn't a party dude anymore"?

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  • Marie AugustMarie August Registered User
    Sounds like you need an intervention. Absolute directness seems to be the only option in a situation full of passive people.

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    Read my fairy tale webcomic, The Fox & The Firebird, at: http://www.fairytaletwisted.com
  • AnomeAnome Registered User regular
    .
    mythago wrote: »
    Anome wrote: »
    Hmm I don't know about the underhandedness. It seems most likely that if the guys' night out doesn't work, we might have to stop inviting him to things. It's a shame because before this girl, he really was a pretty cool guy. Less motivated than some, but he was willing to come hang out and was a very interesting person to talk to. It seems like all of his good qualities have been sucked out of him. It might become tough love time - if he's not going to be a person worth hanging out with, people will stop hanging out with him.

    Sad but such is life. I should have known better than to hope there was a magic phrase I could use to bring him to his senses.

    Okay, so, the problem is not really "this girl is emotionally abusive and backstabbing", the problem is "waah, my friend isn't a party dude anymore"?

    More the emotionally abusive/backstabbing part, but who wouldn't also be sad about losing a friend? But I see where you'd get that, I'm sure I could have phrased myself better there. The root of the matter is I am honestly worried about him. I would never have described him as a "party dude" but now he just does nothing. A whole year of disappearing into another person the way he has is not healthy.

    I don't see the invites stopping either, not really. I just think he'll stop showing up.

    You guys are right though. I've been in a relationship that everyone around me could see was bad for me but if they'd told me I would either have gotten angry or told them that they were misinterpreting things. I got out after a year and a half, hopefully he will, too. It's just tough to see someone you care about make similar mistakes to the ones you have, you know? I figured appealing to the wider internet for help was worth a shot in case there was something I hadn't thought about.

  • KarlKarl Registered User regular
    Anome wrote: »
    .
    mythago wrote: »
    Anome wrote: »
    Hmm I don't know about the underhandedness. It seems most likely that if the guys' night out doesn't work, we might have to stop inviting him to things. It's a shame because before this girl, he really was a pretty cool guy. Less motivated than some, but he was willing to come hang out and was a very interesting person to talk to. It seems like all of his good qualities have been sucked out of him. It might become tough love time - if he's not going to be a person worth hanging out with, people will stop hanging out with him.

    Sad but such is life. I should have known better than to hope there was a magic phrase I could use to bring him to his senses.

    Okay, so, the problem is not really "this girl is emotionally abusive and backstabbing", the problem is "waah, my friend isn't a party dude anymore"?

    More the emotionally abusive/backstabbing part, but who wouldn't also be sad about losing a friend? But I see where you'd get that, I'm sure I could have phrased myself better there. The root of the matter is I am honestly worried about him. I would never have described him as a "party dude" but now he just does nothing. A whole year of disappearing into another person the way he has is not healthy.

    I don't see the invites stopping either, not really. I just think he'll stop showing up.

    You guys are right though. I've been in a relationship that everyone around me could see was bad for me but if they'd told me I would either have gotten angry or told them that they were misinterpreting things. I got out after a year and a half, hopefully he will, too. It's just tough to see someone you care about make similar mistakes to the ones you have, you know? I figured appealing to the wider internet for help was worth a shot in case there was something I hadn't thought about.

    Has he got a super close best friend (above the rest) who could talk to him? What everyone says is right, if you as a group decide to tell him his girlfriend is wrong for him, he will just get angry. But if that one closest friend sits him down in private and tells him his or her's concerns...maybe you might get through to him.

    Spoiler:
  • AftyAfty Registered User regular
    Rather than having a direct talk with him about the GF being batshit insane. Couldn't you talk to him more about music and his direction, ask him whatever happened to that and mention that you were amazed by how he used to be so driven with it.

    Maybe he will come to the realisation himself that the GF has caused him to stop chasing something that he really loved doing, or maybe he just didn't love it enough to maintain the same level of focus on it when there is something as distracting as a relationship going on. Everyone sacrifices their interests somewhat when getting into a serious relationship, some more so than others.

  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    Do these people have any good points? Do you enjoy spending time with them? Because it doesn't sound like Ben is any fun even without his girlfriend. He sounds like a bit of a loser, and you can't fix his life for him. Why not just quietly stop inviting them to stuff?

    HAHA, I was thinking the same thing. Everyone involved sounds like a terribly boring loser with problems.

  • mythagomythago Registered User regular
    Anome wrote: »
    More the emotionally abusive/backstabbing part, but who wouldn't also be sad about losing a friend? But I see where you'd get that, I'm sure I could have phrased myself better there. The root of the matter is I am honestly worried about him. I would never have described him as a "party dude" but now he just does nothing. A whole year of disappearing into another person the way he has is not healthy.

    Then that's what you talk to him about. You leave the gf out of it. "Bob, I'm really worried because you used to do X and Y and now you seem very withdrawn and unhappy. I'm concerned that you're depressed or something's going on."

    If you want to bring her up at all? "I'm worried that your situation might be causing problems for Debbie, too."

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  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    The way I see it, you actually have two separate issues. Issue one is that you are rightly worried about your friend. In this case, the girlfriend is an accessory to the issue. If the girlfriend didn't exist, and this was his behavior pattern, you'd still be worried.

    Issue two is that this girl is a creep and you don't want her around your group of friends. Both issues need to be handled separately, and the latter issue is quite a bit more sensitive of a subject to bring up.

    In the end, I've had to cut off friends because they had the creepy-crazy significant other that no one wanted to be around. It sucks, but in that sort of situation, you owe that friend some honesty.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh
  • Twenty SidedTwenty Sided Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Sounds like you need an intervention. Absolute directness seems to be the only option in a situation full of passive people.
    I'm noting a discrepancy in this thread.

    Anome says "Ben" is apathetic to the point of not caring about his girlfriend's behavior. He's not offended by any of it. Then everybody else is trying to give advice to be non-confrontational or indirect about talking to Ben.

    Yeah, somehow I don't think that telling Ben that his girlfriend is a bad influence is going to offend him. Being direct sounds like it has merit.

    I claim no expertise or authority here. It's just that from what I'm given here in this thread, some things don't logically add up.


    Twenty Sided on
  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    In the end, I've had to cut off friends because they had the creepy-crazy significant other that no one wanted to be around. It sucks, but in that sort of situation, you owe that friend some honesty.


    So this. Whatever happens, if you're a good friend, you owe it to him to voice your concern about him. If it ends up causing you to lose him as a friend, you were going to anyway. Please, PLEASE ignore the terrible advice from people that you need to stay out of it and it's not your business.

  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Honestly? You can't. He probably won't listen. The best way is to just voice your concerns about her to him as a softball, then just leave it at that. This is his relationship, not yours. Some people also like crazy, or experience a completely different person when they're both home alone.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    What? You most certainly can. What kind of friend are you if you cut off a friend from the group and never tell them why?

    This idea that's it's none of your business is mind boggling to me. Do people really take this sort of hands off approach to their friends? I'm not saying it's your right or business to try and change your friends lives, but as a friend, a REAL friend, it's your duty to point out when you think they are being self destructive.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    What? You most certainly can. What kind of friend are you if you cut off a friend from the group and never tell them why?

    This idea that's it's none of your business is mind boggling to me. Do people really take this sort of hands off approach to their friends? I'm not saying it's your right or business to try and change your friends lives, but as a friend, a REAL friend, it's your duty to point out when you think they are being self destructive.

    You can tell them, but they probably aren't going to listen. Relationships can make you irrational until you yourself are ready to make a change.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    My daughter doesn't listen to me a lot, doesn't mean I stop telling her things and stop teaching her. When you care about someone, beyond just a casual hang out friend or acquintance, you owe it to them to be honest about this kind of stuff. You don't have to go in guns blazing "Duder, your girlfriend is crazy", but if you're going to cut someone off from the group, you absolutely should tell them why.

    And as I said in my first post, the OP has two issues that needed to be addressed separately. One is worry for the friend, regardless of the girlfriend. The other is the creep girlfriend they don't want around.

    Problem one, you can use a lot more tact to deal with. You don't even need to bring the GF up...but problem two, you have exactly two options: Put up with the crazy girlfriend, or tell your friend he's not invited anymore and exactly why. Making something up to "save his feelings" would be a total dick move, and show you weren't a real friend to begin with.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh
  • AnomeAnome Registered User regular
    So this is just a preliminary report, but I was just on facebook and the best thing that could have happened has happened - Julie's relationship status changed to single. Now, this could have been a mind game or flip out on her part and as I have to leave for work right about now and Ben's not answering his phone I'm just hoping for the best.

    Now my concern is preventing the almost inevitable reconciliation. I feel like she's doing this as a kind of attention grab/power play so I'm trying really hard to come up with the best attitude to take toward Ben. Outright, immediate bashing how awful she was I think will lead to him shutting us out but hopefully we can now get him out to more things and show him how much fun his life used to be. I'm crossing my fingers here and hoping for the best. Thanks guys. I can't believe this may have worked itself out. I just hope it was Ben doing the dumping.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    The best bet at this point is to not say or do anything. Let this brewing situation play out, and be there for quick support when it's warranted.

    At this point, if you say anything, he may reconcile with her out of spite. Even if he starts to bad mouth her, I would just do the head nod "uh huh", "I see what you mean", "Oh my" thing.

    Basically this changes the situation entirely, and now a bull in the china shop honest approach is probably less prudent.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh
  • PriestPriest Registered User regular
    I guess what I have to say to this is that she is not crazy. She is "abnormal" by current Western Cultural Standards, but not Crazy. She is clearly polyamorous and not particularly bothered by another person's sense of morals. As such, she's forward about her wants, whatever they may be.

    To that end however, your friend is not quite realizing that he is letting a woman, who clearly violates his own moral structure, begin to take him over in some respects. He needs to realize that he must maintain his own decided standards, unless he is willing & interested in acquiring her lifestyle.

  • Twenty SidedTwenty Sided Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Priest wrote: »
    I guess what I have to say to this is that she is not crazy. She is "abnormal" by current Western Cultural Standards, but not Crazy. She is clearly polyamorous and not particularly bothered by another person's sense of morals. As such, she's forward about her wants, whatever they may be.

    "Crazy" colloquially refers to somebody who is irrational and erratic to the point of being dangerous.

    People have flatly stated that her sexual advances make people uncomfortable. It's unwelcome and they clearly make it known that it's unwelcome. But she does it anyway to grab attention. That's not "polyamorous," that's being an asshole. Her mores are that of a manipulative and inconsiderate asshole.

    Cultural relativism can suck it.

    Twenty Sided on
  • EsseeEssee The pinkest of hair. Victoria, BCRegistered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Priest wrote: »
    I guess what I have to say to this is that she is not crazy. She is "abnormal" by current Western Cultural Standards, but not Crazy. She is clearly polyamorous and not particularly bothered by another person's sense of morals. As such, she's forward about her wants, whatever they may be.

    To that end however, your friend is not quite realizing that he is letting a woman, who clearly violates his own moral structure, begin to take him over in some respects. He needs to realize that he must maintain his own decided standards, unless he is willing & interested in acquiring her lifestyle.

    Literally cutting off your significant other in favor of trying to get his friend's attention after constantly telling that friend how much you love them all day has nothing to do with polyamory. Maybe she's polyamorous, but she seems (from the info given) to have set up their relationship as primarily between her and Ben, so ignoring Ben in favor of someone else IN FRONT OF BEN is seperate from whether they've agreed that she can see other people. Also the hitting on everyone in general, whether or not they're interested. She's not being a good relationship prospect/person in a relationship in this situation, polyamory or no, and she's not being respectful of other people's wants and needs either by continuing to hit on them/etc. when they repeatedly tell her they're not interested, either. (Edit: I also want to add that I've learned a fair bit about this stuff given my fiance and I are in fact polyamorous and have looked into the polyamory community at large to learn more about how other people who are poly treat their relationships.) I also want to point out this bit from the OP here that seems to agree with me on the problem the OP and friends have with this not really being about polyamory:
    Anome wrote:
    Now don't get me wrong, I'm not judging her based on non-monogamy if it's consensual. I'm judging her because Ryan has repeatedly told her "no, this makes me very uncomfortable and you need to move on" and she responds by crying, telling him that she loves and respects him more than anyone in the world, and that she doesn't understand why he can't just be with her.

    I'm getting the feeling that there's almost no one she hasn't hit on in our friend group and it's starting to really bother people.

    I feel the two options are either that she's crazy or she's really disrespectful of other people, and neither is really good for this Ben guy. Hopefully this issue has now sorted itself out, but yeah, there's a non-zero chance with this kind of girl that there are crazy things ahead (if something more happens right now it's likely to be 'crazy' if she broke up with him herself and decides to cause more drama). I'm not totally sure how to talk to Ben, whichever's happened, but I'd say a start (if he doesn't say anything to you guys to begin with) might be for your friends who are going to hang out with him soon to be like, "Hey, what's up? I saw Julie put her status as single on Facebook, is something going on?" if that wouldn't make him too uncomfortable. Definitely try not to attack the girlfriend, but you guys are certainly allowed to say that you agree with any misgivings he has about her and totally get where he's coming from and so on.

    Essee on
  • MelinoeMelinoe Registered User regular
    Also cornering someone at a party and trying to forcibly take their shirt off after being told no gets filed under crazy/creepy/completely inappropriate.

  • Aoi TsukiAoi Tsuki Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Melinoe wrote: »
    Also cornering someone at a party and trying to forcibly take their shirt off after being told no gets filed under crazy/creepy/completely inappropriate.


    This. Her behavior is not that of a polyamorist who's somehow bravely defying Western convention, it's just attention-whoring taken to a batshit extreme. No decent person of any orientation/lifestyle acts like that. That's not the only evidence of her being a few batteries short of a pack, either:
    Anome wrote:
    She won't get any job that won't pay her under the table because she's decided she doesn't want any dealings with the government ever because they're evil so she doesn't want to deal with her several years of back taxes even though she'd probably get a significant refund, so she's decided that by never having a job or anything in her own name, she can hide from them.

    Anome, what's the status of the planned girls' night out? Has Julie said anything to anyone?

    Aoi Tsuki on
    Some people already have said stupid things, but I'm ignoring them because I just found a potato in my fridge that looks like it's smiling.
  • ceresceres Your photo framed Raw within my mindSuper Moderator, Moderator mod
    Aoi Tsuki wrote: »
    Melinoe wrote: »
    Also cornering someone at a party and trying to forcibly take their shirt off after being told no gets filed under crazy/creepy/completely inappropriate.


    This. Her behavior is not that of a polyamorist who's somehow bravely defying Western convention, it's just attention-whoring taken to a batshit extreme. No decent person of any orientation/lifestyle acts like that.

    If genders were reversed, someone would have called the police. I am not the most monogamous person in the world certainly, but trying to take someone's shirt off after they've said no is pretty vile behavior. Whether or not your friend is okay with her seeking the attention of others is between them, but if she is making you feel uncomfortable with this sort of thing then I really think you should say something to him about it.

    That is, assuming this hasn't all gone pear-shaped already.

    And I am done with my graceless heart,
    So tonight I'm gonna cut it out and then restart.

    The avalanche has already started; it is too late for the pebbles to vote.
  • LadyMLadyM Registered User regular
    Yeah, reading the things she's done (pursuing people after they tell her no, no, no, going WAY over personal boundaries, etc) was incredibly uncomfortable. This girl is basically sexually harassing people. I would go so far as to say "assaulting people", based on the shirt incident. If your friend does get back together with her, I think it's entirely appropriate to tell him, "We will be happy to invite you to events, but we don't want your girlfriend there because she harasses people."

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