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Avengers have assembled! (pretty much just the Marvel movie thread now with some comics)
Posts
Re. the above spoiler (Avengers ending spoiler)
I almost feel like this is Marvel getting a head start over a potential Justice League film - Darkseid is the obvious villain to go for in that case, but now Marvel will have introduced an evil god-like cosmic tyrant first, even though Darkseid is arguably a better one comics-wise.
Okay I'm confused. Those are DC properties, right, not Marvel?
Yes, but
Marvel already beat them to a "Justice League" movie with Avengers. Avengers spoiler
Darkseid is basically the DC version of Marvel's Thanos, i.e., a giant ugly space-god who doesn't have much of a goal or plan beyond tearing shit up and making life miserable for everyone who isn't himself.
They're actually pretty terrible villains, from the standpoint of being able to use them in a dynamic narrative. "Because I'm an evil bastard" is a fairly thin motivation.
So far all the wiki plotline summaries I've read barely even mention the Avengers though. It's like
wat
I thought maybe somebody had new information regarding Disney's production company purchases. Pixar, Marvel...what's next, you know?
Hey, hey, hey...one of them clearly has motivation/goal:
Basically all the threats that Superman ever needs help with come from space
A great observation. It is literally a comic book universe Space Race.
DC has many incredible villains, they just need to execute them well. It can be done like the Justice League, Teen Titans & Young Justice cartoons have proved.
Shame Magneto, Doom, and Osborn are tied up in other studios.
I mean, this isn't the Red Skull who wants to take over the planet, or an alien race looking to raise a little hell over the weekend, or Loki who'd rather like to rule humanity (maybe). This is Thanos, he wants to wipe out half the population of the galaxy.
It seems like the Avengers would be a little out of his league this early on.
Maybe as a behind the scenes big bad in 2 (as opposed to his current place as behind the behind t he scenes bad guy), then as the actual big bad in Avengers 3. Give the Avengers a chance to bulk out the team a little with new heroes getting their intros in their own movies, then end with Stark or Fury showing up, giving them a business card and inviting them to a barbecue at Avengers Tower next week or something.
I agree with that. The next Avengers movie is supposed to be
The only reason they aren't iconic yet is because they haven't been in good films. There's plenty with the potential to be the next Luthor or Magneto with the proper execution. WB/DC has made it easier over the last decade by giving the obscure super-villains places to show their stuff in animation. Smallville was hit and miss, with a few promising versions. It's a good first step to being iconic. The hard part is getting the film division to do their end competently, which they've failed miserably excluding Burton's & Nolan's Batman films and Superman 1 & 2.
Doom, Magneto & Osborn being with another company is good for everybody. Marvel gets to reap the profits and keep their franchises going while they focus on brining the obscure super-villains to the public. It's already worked wonders with their films so far. I'd like to see the FF back eventually, Marvel's Doom would be incredible.
I agree that Civil War doesn't really work in the MCU, at least for the foreseeable future.
I would counter, however, that I do want to see Captain America beat the shit out of Iron Man.
Nope.
Agreed.
Yes. It's from the end of Civil War.
A few days later he gets shot and "killed".
My favourite part was when my girlfriend leaned over and whispered "oh, is it a submarine too?"
I didn't even try to hold back my glee when I simply replied "Nope."
I did have to admit shortly thereafter that
Edit: and I now notice I'm responding to people from 7 pages back. Oh well, more of that; I too love Coulson.
It's still a pretty hollow thing to build a narrative around.
Even in The Avengers, the central villain has a personal stake in his plan, as well as a personal connection to the protagonists.
I'm not saying you CAN'T build a good story around Darkseid or Thanos, but they don't immediately lend themselves to interesting character dynamics that can be imparted to an audience of actual human beings without significant tweaking of their modes and methods. Which is why stories with those guys always end up being compartmentalized and fought through proxies.
It's not impossible to give the Avengers a personal connection in some form to Thanos in the sequels, since Silver Surfer & Adam Warlock aren't around to fulfill that role in the movies.
* haven't read Kirby's New Gods
Just because Darkseid is the god of evil does not mean he doesn't have personality or depth.
Darkseid's goal isn't just to dominate all life, it's to make his enemies see the weakness and hypocrisy of their own beliefs and to admit that they were wrong to hold such beliefs in the first place. He is not just a god who tempts or tricks people into committing evil, he is a force that unites the conflicting facets of one's nature and drives it toward a greater goal. His empire exists within the hearts and minds of all sentient beings and every man, woman, and child is a battlefield upon which he wages his war.
The reason I keep saying
But does that really matter? The Joker causes chaos and death for its own sake but he's still an interesting villain.
Controlling something and destroying something are different things, and pretty much the Joker's whole shtick is how little anything matters.
The Joker doesn't "cause death for its own sake." He causes chaos. Different things.
With the Joker he'll kill or let live on any whim. He's random and out of control, especially his latest incarnation.
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