As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

Rick Rolls [Labor]

178101213101

Posts

  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Place at the tableRegistered User regular
    edited June 2012
    I guess it depends quite a bit where you work. My ex worked at an olive garden, and made a shitload of money. But she did have the most common super power. You'd have to be at a bad restaurant on a bad shift (like denny's on sunday brunch) to make 6 an hour.

    Explain how a boss gets to keep money for making a waitress claim more tips? Claimed tips get taxed and put on your paycheck.

    Are you confusing claiming them with pooling tips?

    Ain't trying to say waitresses get yacht money, and it's not exactly trying to sort naked ladies out of a pile of kittens in the dark, I mean it's a hard enough job, but decent waitstaff do fine.
    Nova_C wrote: »
    If waitresses make so much money, how come all the ones I know work at least two jobs? Most have three. That does not jibe with these fat stacks of cash they supposedly get tax free.

    because they mostly work part time, and the waitressing IS their second job? Because waitressing isn't fullfilling and nobody wants to do it forever? For benefits they should have anyway? Because they all work at waffle houses and cafes? I dunno. I know when I go eat, I tip, and the waitress usually has a room full of people like me, and one section rotation a shift should make you minimum wage.

    JohnnyCache on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I guess it depends quite a bit where you work. My ex worked at an olive garden, and made a shitload of money. But she did have the most common super power. You'd have to be at a bad restaurant on a bad shift (like denny's on sunday brunch) to make 6 an hour.

    A shitload per hour or in general?

    Cause waiters aren't exactly brining in the dough with a mean salary of $20k.
    http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes353031.htm

  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    I guess it depends quite a bit where you work. My ex worked at an olive garden, and made a shitload of money. But she did have the most common super power. You'd have to be at a bad restaurant on a bad shift (like denny's on sunday brunch) to make 6 an hour.

    Explain how a boss gets to keep money for making a waitress claim more tips? Claimed tips get taxed and put on your paycheck.

    Are you confusing claiming them with pooling tips?

    Ain't trying to say waitresses get yacht money, and it's not exactly trying to sort naked ladies out of a pile of kittens in the dark, I mean it's a hard enough job, but decent waitstaff do fine.
    Nova_C wrote: »
    If waitresses make so much money, how come all the ones I know work at least two jobs? Most have three. That does not jibe with these fat stacks of cash they supposedly get tax free.

    because they mostly work part time, and the waitressing IS their second job? Because waitressing isn't fullfilling and nobody wants to do it forever? For benefits they should have anyway? Because they all work at waffle houses and cafes? I dunno. I know when I go eat, I tip, and the waitress usually has a room full of people like me, and one section rotation a shift should make you minimum wage.

    The most common superpower?

  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    Explain how a boss gets to keep money for making a waitress claim more tips? Claimed tips get taxed and put on your paycheck.
    The boss forces his waitresses to say they get more in tips than they actually do; if the tips plus the money he pays them hourly come up to minimum wage, he doesn't have to give them any more. A little fraud on their part means he gets to sock away more cash as profits.

  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Place at the tableRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    I guess it depends quite a bit where you work. My ex worked at an olive garden, and made a shitload of money. But she did have the most common super power. You'd have to be at a bad restaurant on a bad shift (like denny's on sunday brunch) to make 6 an hour.

    A shitload per hour or in general?

    Cause waiters aren't exactly brining in the dough with a mean salary of $20k.
    http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes353031.htm
    Go to work at three, get off 10-12 hours later with 100-300 dollars. That's more than minimum wage on the low end. It's a lot of variance, and you have to deal with shitheads, and there's lots of competition and little snits over who gets the prime shifts, those things are the downfalls of service work, not the potential to make money.

    I agree there are issues in that sector - short and fluctuating hours being one of them - but I can't think of how changing their pay arrangement helps. at best, you get higher priced food with no tipping, and they get the same money or less. (because realistically, once they change the law, tips will go down, and the barrier to entry won't go up, and they aren't going to make much more than 10 an hour, and they're going to pay taxes on more of it)

    20k a year is $9.6 an hour, btw

    And I must muse aloud if your figure includes 100% of tips

  • moocowmoocow Registered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    I guess it depends quite a bit where you work. My ex worked at an olive garden, and made a shitload of money. But she did have the most common super power. You'd have to be at a bad restaurant on a bad shift (like denny's on sunday brunch) to make 6 an hour.

    Explain how a boss gets to keep money for making a waitress claim more tips? Claimed tips get taxed and put on your paycheck.

    Are you confusing claiming them with pooling tips?

    Ain't trying to say waitresses get yacht money, and it's not exactly trying to sort naked ladies out of a pile of kittens in the dark, I mean it's a hard enough job, but decent waitstaff do fine.
    Nova_C wrote: »
    If waitresses make so much money, how come all the ones I know work at least two jobs? Most have three. That does not jibe with these fat stacks of cash they supposedly get tax free.

    because they mostly work part time, and the waitressing IS their second job? Because waitressing isn't fullfilling and nobody wants to do it forever? For benefits they should have anyway? Because they all work at waffle houses and cafes? I dunno. I know when I go eat, I tip, and the waitress usually has a room full of people like me, and one section rotation a shift should make you minimum wage.

    The most common superpower?

    big boobs (look at any superheroine)

    imttnk.png
    PS4:MrZoompants
  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Place at the tableRegistered User regular
    I seriously almost got carpal tunnel

  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Ah. Of course.

  • MentalExerciseMentalExercise Indefenestrable Registered User regular
    While in general I think jobs like teachers should in fact be payed higher than market rate because we want to incentivize talent to go into those jobs, people are aware that they are payed higher than market rate right?
    Explain how a boss gets to keep money for making a waitress claim more tips? Claimed tips get taxed and put on your paycheck.
    The boss forces his waitresses to say they get more in tips than they actually do; if the tips plus the money he pays them hourly come up to minimum wage, he doesn't have to give them any more. A little fraud on their part means he gets to sock away more cash as profits.

    That's a real problem like voter fraud.

    Even really shitty waitstaff jobs make better than minimum wage every shift. With the exception of places losing money hand over fist and shortly destined to close up shop.

    "More fish for Kunta!"

    --LeVar Burton
  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    I dont understand why people are crab bucket trying to pull waitstaff back down to exactly minimum wage, instead of letting them get minimum plus tips for having to often deal with the worst thing ever, other people.

    I dont see the harm in them earning minumum wage plus tips.

    steam_sig.png
    MWO: Adamski
  • MentalExerciseMentalExercise Indefenestrable Registered User regular
    I dont understand why people are crab bucket trying to pull waitstaff back down to exactly minimum wage, instead of letting them get minimum plus tips for having to often deal with the worst thing ever, other people.

    I dont see the harm in them earning minumum wage plus tips.

    Oh, me neither. I live in a state that requires minimum wage for waitstaff and I'm glad of it, both personally and generally.

    I rarely however have much sympathy for people-hating waitstaff, but that comes from working in the industry for a long time.

    "More fish for Kunta!"

    --LeVar Burton
  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Place at the tableRegistered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Explain how a boss gets to keep money for making a waitress claim more tips? Claimed tips get taxed and put on your paycheck.
    The boss forces his waitresses to say they get more in tips than they actually do; if the tips plus the money he pays them hourly come up to minimum wage, he doesn't have to give them any more. A little fraud on their part means he gets to sock away more cash as profits.

    This might be happening in 50s Town, Iowa, the Town with One Restaurant, but i do not believe it could possibly be a rampant problem

    For one thing, it requires a waiter to make about 4 dollars an hour in tips

    Which means basically waiting on one table an hour



    JohnnyCache on
  • MentalExerciseMentalExercise Indefenestrable Registered User regular
    Explain how a boss gets to keep money for making a waitress claim more tips? Claimed tips get taxed and put on your paycheck.
    The boss forces his waitresses to say they get more in tips than they actually do; if the tips plus the money he pays them hourly come up to minimum wage, he doesn't have to give them any more. A little fraud on their part means he gets to sock away more cash as profits.

    This might be happening in 50s Town, Iowa, the Town with One Restaurant, but i do not believe it could possibly be a rampant problem

    For one thing, it requires a waiter to make about 4 dollars an hour in tips

    Which means basically waiting on one table an hour



    Exactly, which means the restaurant they're working at is losing lots and lots of money. The only exception I can think of would be someplace that's open certain unprofitable hours as a loss-leader. Like say a Denny's that doesn't make money on the sunday midnight shift, but stays open becuase they're open 24 hours a day, seven days a week. But even that would be an extreme minority of the shifts out there. Otherwise the place would just go out of business.

    "More fish for Kunta!"

    --LeVar Burton
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Yeah if you think waiters are claiming all their tips you'd be silly.

    Plus, $9.6/hr full time. You'd be surprised to find that most of them work, 20, maybe 30 hours if their boss really likes them. So that moves their wage to like $15-18 an hour, so adding in another job puts them in the realm of "hey I earn probably 2-3x more than an entry level lawyer in Boston, and all I have to do is deal with a shitty customer every now and again."

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    I guess it depends quite a bit where you work. My ex worked at an olive garden, and made a shitload of money. But she did have the most common super power. You'd have to be at a bad restaurant on a bad shift (like denny's on sunday brunch) to make 6 an hour.

    A shitload per hour or in general?

    Cause waiters aren't exactly brining in the dough with a mean salary of $20k.
    http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes353031.htm

    Plus the tips they don't tell the government about...

    Also, Sunday Brunch is an amazing shift.

  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Place at the tableRegistered User regular
    Deebaser wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    I guess it depends quite a bit where you work. My ex worked at an olive garden, and made a shitload of money. But she did have the most common super power. You'd have to be at a bad restaurant on a bad shift (like denny's on sunday brunch) to make 6 an hour.

    A shitload per hour or in general?

    Cause waiters aren't exactly brining in the dough with a mean salary of $20k.
    http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes353031.htm

    Plus the tips they don't tell the government about...

    Also, Sunday Brunch is an amazing shift.

    Is it? Where I live it means 8 tops of senior citizens who leave you religious tracts for tips

    I would happily work 2 days a week as a bartender if I could get away with it

    (I may be able to get away with it soon)

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Are you people seriously in here debating how overpaid wait staff is? Really? Really?

    This is why this country fucking sucks.

    Thanatos on
  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Bringing "tipping culture" into any thread guarantees a terrible sidebar in that thread.

    As for brunch, maybe it's because I live in a godless brunch town, but that's what we do instead of church. I don't do Denny's mind you, but even the shitty diner is jam packed sunday.

    Deebaser on
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Are you people seriously in here debating how overpaid wait staff is? Really? Really?

    This is why this country fucking sucks.

    Tangential to why minimum wage is terrible and how even wait staff make more than lawyers, apparently.

    Basically we need harder labor regulations than we have. Hell we could do away with unions completely if we got tough on employers. That includes small business.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Place at the tableRegistered User regular
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Are you people seriously in here debating how overpaid wait staff is? Really? Really?

    This is why this country fucking sucks.

    since everyone seems to think it's legal to pay waitstaff 2.33 an hour and it isn't, yes, we're talking about it.

    I mean there is a point where rubber meets the road, OK?

    Waiting is a shit job in some ways, but no, not everybody works just as hard as everybody else, and not every job has the same qualifications, and it's not "crab bucketing" to point out that not every job is going to pay a ton, or to make a case someone's wages are fair. Evidently it's a sacred cow that waitressing is a shitty job, and when actual waiters with waiting experience are like "we actually make good money" we're just liars and crabby crab bucket crabs

    if you work at any kind of family restaurant - buffalo wild wings, outback, etc, anything with a bunch of shit on the walls, you can easily rival the salary of a skilled tradesperson, fetching food and drinks for people that don't want to walk 20 feet when someone calls their name.

    Do I think they should have benefits?

    YES.

    I think everyone should have benefits that are divorced from the specific workplace.







  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    This is one of those debates that makes me imagine an overweight, rich white guy wearing a tophat and monocle laughing so hard that he actually rolls off the enormous pile of money he's perched on.

  • CantelopeCantelope Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    We really need a law that says CEO total compensation cannot be more than 100X lowest paid employee compensation. It's that simple.

    Cantelope on
  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    Thanatos wrote: »
    This is one of those debates that makes me imagine an overweight, rich white guy wearing a tophat and monocle laughing so hard that he actually rolls off the enormous pile of money he's perched on.

    it's imagery like that that many labour groups used to use to fight attempts to have only particular industries grant concessions to labour, in favour of labour-wide benefits, arguing that said monopoly-man was evilly pursuing a divide-and-conquer. Not really plausible, but personalization like that is unifying.

    aRkpc.gif
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Cantelope wrote: »
    We really need a law that says CEO total compensation cannot be more than 100X lowest paid employee compensation. It's that simple.

    8-12 times was the number I factored. And also prohibit franchising and contracting to the same scale. Meaning you can't take your executive branch, keep a middle manager making $50,000 and then have the company pay this "executive think tank" crazy money.

    This means if you're paying a worker minimum wage, $8 an hour let's say, and full and part time matter here, the maximum take home pay you can get is something like $200,000. That's not obscene. This also helps because you can still have minimum wage in effect to help control out of control inflation as a gallon of milk hits $10 a gallon.

    If the lowest person in your corporate ladder makes $50,000, your take home pay is now $600,000. District managers and their ilk don't really make all that much money. But this is going to kill businesses like walmart, target, burger king, mcdonalds, etc etc.

    Oh and benefit packages have to be company wide. No more CEO's getting Cadillac plans while everyone else has a $200 copay and a $90 a week insurance premium.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Are there any studies that show the average wait staff makes more money in both tips and pay than the average minimum wage worker? If so, by how much?

    I'm inclined to think that the wait staff that has it super easy is an exception rather than the norm. I'll agree that in some aspects they might have it a bit better than other workers because in theory they could hit their financial needs with less time in; however, tips aren't guaranteed.

  • LorctheOrcLorctheOrc Registered User regular
    Thanatos wrote: »
    This is one of those debates that makes me imagine an overweight, rich white guy wearing a tophat and monocle laughing so hard that he actually rolls off the enormous pile of money he's perched on.

    Or a Catholic priest

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    Are there any studies that show the average wait staff makes more money in both tips and pay than the average minimum wage worker? If so, by how much?

    I'm inclined to think that the wait staff that has it super easy is an exception rather than the norm. I'll agree that in some aspects they might have it a bit better than other workers because in theory they could hit their financial needs with less time in; however, tips aren't guaranteed.
    If you're talking about wages, it's possible.

    If you're talking about total compensation, no way in hell. Wait staff don't get health insurance, vacation days, sick days (though, that's changing in Seattle), health insurance, retirement benefits, health insurance, or health insurance.

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Almost makes sense that we'd want to offer all those things on a national level... funny how we keep coming back to that thread and thread again.

    Almost as if they're human rights (not natural, but something we should provide) in the first world. Seems like government should want to ensure a happy and productive work force through health insurance, vacation/sick days, health insurance, retirement benefits, health insurance, and health insurance. They probably should provide health insurance too.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    ronya wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    This is one of those debates that makes me imagine an overweight, rich white guy wearing a tophat and monocle laughing so hard that he actually rolls off the enormous pile of money he's perched on.
    it's imagery like that that many labour groups used to use to fight attempts to have only particular industries grant concessions to labour, in favour of labour-wide benefits, arguing that said monopoly-man was evilly pursuing a divide-and-conquer. Not really plausible, but personalization like that is unifying.
    Oh, I don't think this is necessarily the result of a single monopoly-man's nefarious plot or anything like that. I think there's certainly a concerted anti-labor PR effort from the right wing, and that it has been tremendously successful. I think a lot of what we're seeing here, though, is the "Bowling Alone" sort of effect you get in the natural cycle of things. People do really well for themselves, so they start thinking we don't need the safety nets and things and we can save money by cutting taxes and we should reduce "unnecessary" regulations in order to help businesses... and then all of a sudden you're in the laissez-faire era, and then a Great Depression. So then you get a trust-busting Roosevelt in office who cleans shit up, empowers labor, and cracks down on the excesses of business, which improves everyone's lives, and people start doing really well for themselves...

    Ad nauseum. Really, the solution to bring the cycle to an end is to sacrifice the Baby Boomers to the American god of History.

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    I like you.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Yeah if you think waiters are claiming all their tips you'd be silly.

    Plus, $9.6/hr full time. You'd be surprised to find that most of them work, 20, maybe 30 hours if their boss really likes them. So that moves their wage to like $15-18 an hour, so adding in another job puts them in the realm of "hey I earn probably 2-3x more than an entry level lawyer in Boston, and all I have to do is deal with a shitty customer every now and again."

    You've said some pretty crazy stuff in your time but this is like your crowning achievement.

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Maybe you missed it a few pages back where an entry level lawyer position was advertised at $10,000.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Hence the "in some ways" part. A wait staff job might be one of the better part time job options or something to do to supplement your retirement but it seems like a shitty full time job option overall (once other forms of compensation are factored in).

    I think it might be fair to say most of the public's view on tips is along the lines of the lottery. They hear about the occasional wait staff that makes out like a bandit on tips and assume that every wait stuff has that eventually happen to them, just like someday they'll win the lottery.

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    I'm not really sure what was so confusing about "wait staff often work part times, don't declare their tips sometimes, get shafted on hourly paid by their employer, and often make well above that in tips, and apparently make 2-3x's more than a lawyer in Boston according to that link a few pages back".

    It's not like it's overly shocking that $10,000 a year for a full time position is like $4.8 an hour. You'd be crazy if you think they're going to be working just 40 hours a week too. :rotate:

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Place at the tableRegistered User regular

    Thanatos wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    This is one of those debates that makes me imagine an overweight, rich white guy wearing a tophat and monocle laughing so hard that he actually rolls off the enormous pile of money he's perched on.
    it's imagery like that that many labour groups used to use to fight attempts to have only particular industries grant concessions to labour, in favour of labour-wide benefits, arguing that said monopoly-man was evilly pursuing a divide-and-conquer. Not really plausible, but personalization like that is unifying.
    Oh, I don't think this is necessarily the result of a single monopoly-man's nefarious plot or anything like that. I think there's certainly a concerted anti-labor PR effort from the right wing, and that it has been tremendously successful. I think a lot of what we're seeing here, though, is the "Bowling Alone" sort of effect you get in the natural cycle of things. People do really well for themselves, so they start thinking we don't need the safety nets and things and we can save money by cutting taxes and we should reduce "unnecessary" regulations in order to help businesses... and then all of a sudden you're in the laissez-faire era, and then a Great Depression. So then you get a trust-busting Roosevelt in office who cleans shit up, empowers labor, and cracks down on the excesses of business, which improves everyone's lives, and people start doing really well for themselves...

    Ad nauseum. Really, the solution to bring the cycle to an end is to sacrifice the Baby Boomers to the American god of History.

    See I don't actually think like monopoly guy

    I think we shouldn't bend every form of employment around getting people benefits, we should provide the benefits divorced of employment, so that the cash pay IS a bigger deal.


    RE bowen's "crazy talk," who here is a former waiter and what tips did you make a shift? I've been a bartender (not quite the same thing) and as a male bartender, my tips were usually still 100 a shift.

    Re the stats on waiting, they are posted like, one page ago and reveal ... they make more than minimum wage, pretty much everywhere. Climbing into the mid and high teens an hour in a few places.

  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Maybe you missed it a few pages back where an entry level lawyer position was advertised at $10,000.

    One job advert does not a trend make.

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    No shit sherlock, no fucking shit.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Place at the tableRegistered User regular
    mrt144 wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Maybe you missed it a few pages back where an entry level lawyer position was advertised at $10,000.

    One job advert does not a trend make.

    That's what I said, but apparently that makes me a Scabby McScabberton who doesn't care about the lawyers in their legal sweatshops

    (to be fair, I really don't, the only lawyer I like is my defense attorney)

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    What's even worse is that this is a thing and very likely to be a trend.

    It's a step up from unpaid internship I guess, but at least the unpaid internship you can levy the Department of Labor against them if it's not really an unpaid internship and more like unpaid job.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • KasynKasyn I'm not saying I don't like our chances. She called me the master.Registered User regular
    Solution to the lost generation of workers, unemployed and underemployed working $10/hr office jobs with their Master's degrees - become waiters and waitresses! All these public employee suckers with their evaporating pensions won't have shit on you as you're rolling in the fat tips, working to an early retirement.

This discussion has been closed.