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First 5(+5) pages of a movie script - An edgy "Juno" meets "The Good House Wife"
It should be properly formatted in the spoiler below. There's a couple of transitions that I have just as filler for the moment, but if you have suggestions please help me! The fillers should be obvious to see, but I don't want to get hung up on things just yet.
Basically, I know it's only the first five pages but whatever thoughts you have I would like to know. This is from a full length movie script I'm re-writing/revising.
SIMON'S wrist with one friendship bracelet. Bracelet reads SARAH. A cigarette in hand, held by a early 20 something year old professional: dress shirt with rolled up sleeves, no tie, and black pants and shoes. Light stubble across his face.
INT. SARAH'S HOUSE -- LIVING ROOM
SPIDER WEB AND SPIDER IN THE CORNER OF THE ROOM
WIDER VIEW
SARAH'S FATHER, an old man with a gut full of broken years, lays passed out in a recliner. An empty bottle and potato chip bag sits by his side, crumbs litter his belly.
A door opens.
SARAH, a teenage girl, creeps out. She's wearing a large shirt that flows past her thighs, like a dress. The shirt is black with some metal band name written in red. Her BARE FEET avoid the broken light bulb pieces on the ground, as she makes her way quietly to the kitchen.
BLACK.
INT. SARAH'S HOUSE -- KITCHEN
P.O.V. REFRIGERATOR
HUMMING
The door opens and illuminates the insides: BEER and BREAD, but mostly empty.
SARAH'S FACE -- young, metal ear rings, and her hair falling around her face. She knows exactly what she wants to grab.
She grabs an APPLE and a single HOT DOG, closes the door.
INT. SARAH'S HOUSE -- BATHROOM
APPLE AND HOT DOG IN A GLADLOCK BAG
The counter is chaos: deodorant, toothbrushes, toothpaste, nail clippers, nose and ear trimmer; the sink is dotted with facial hair. We HEAR SARAH brushing her teeth.
EXT. SIDESTREET
A YELLOW MUSTANG idles at a stop light.
SIMON is about to flick his cigarette out the window, but stops: a WIFE walks by, pushing a STROLLER.
SIMON ashes the cigarette in his CLEAN ash tray. The light turns green.
EXT. SARAH'S HOUSE -- SARAH'S WINDOW
Through the spider-web crack in the window, we see SARAH'S FACE: determined, rebellious, and hair tied back. We HEAR the window starting to open.
She holds the GLADLOCK BAG with APPLE and HOT DOG in her mouth as she climbs out, closes the window behind her.
We HEAR a dog running towards her from BEHIND. SARAH turns around just in time to catch the dog in mid-flight.
P.O.V. DOG
DOG LICKING HER NECK, HAPPY PANTING
The licks tickle SARAH. She laughs with the GLADLOCK BAG still in her mouth. She puts the DOG down and lowers to her knees.
BACK to:
SARAH AND DOG
She opens the bag and gives the HOT DOG to the DOG. The DOG scarfs down the HOT DOG. SARAH bites into the APPLE: CRUNCH.
The DOG stares back at SARAH while she continues to CHEW the APPLE. SARAH smiles and pats the DOG on its head. The DOG sits. She continues to CHEW.
EXT. OUTSIDE -- LATER IN THE DAY
Establishing thing. Shows the passage of time. The Sky. Some birds. Clouds. People in line for fast food.
INT. SIMON'S CAR -- YELLOW MUSTANG
SARAH sits on the passenger side, watching the picket-fenced houses pass by. The suburban sprawl: equal distant from each other and the road.
There is a faint reflection of SARAH in the mirror. She's TWIRLING an EARRING.
SARAH
I heard geese mate for life.
SIMON
What?
SARAH
On the radio. Geese stay together forever.
SIMON
Their whole life?
SARAH
That's love, right?
The car stops. Children cross the street. After the children cross, SIMON doesn't go. SARAH prods him. He goes.
EXT. MOVING THEATER -- PARKING LOT
The parking lot is nearly empty this time of day. The YELLOW MUSTANG parks and SARAH and SIMON step out. They walk to the MOVIE THEATER; SARAH with noticeably more energy, bouncing in her step.
HANDICAP BUTTON TO OPEN THE DOOR
SARAH WHACKS the button, the door SLOWLY opens.
SARAH
Whalla!
SIMON smiles and tips his imaginary hat. He walks in first.
INT. MOVIE THEATER -- TICKET COUNTER
The EMPLOYEE is a teenager between the ages of SARAH and SIMON. He's plump, has round glasses, and a few pimples. An ordinary movie geek that's sure of nothing but his own movie taste.
EMPLOYEE
Are you her parent or guardian?
SIMON glares at the EMPLOYEE. SARAH looks away.
EMPLOYEE
The movie is rated "R".
SIMON
Of course I am.
EMPLOYEE hesitates.
SIMON
Our parents died and now I'm in charge. Happy?
EMPLOYEE flinches at first, but then appears apologetic.
EMPLOYEE
I'm...I'm sorry. (beat). Here.
SIMON takes the tickets and hands them to SARAH.
SIMON (To SARAH)
Can you get us some popcorn?
SARAH nods, heads off.
SIMON (TO EMPLOYEE)
I want you to imagine what it's like to be reminded of our parents' deaths whenever we just want to see a damn movie.
EMPLOYEE
I'm...I'm sorry. I'm just doing my job.
SIMON
Oh. "Just doing your job".
SIMON shakes his head and walks off.
EMPLOYEE LOOKS DOWN
INT. MOVIE THEATER -- THEATER
SARAH and SIMON share popcorn, reaching over with their OPPOSITE HANDS. Their CLOSEST HANDS are holding.
A box of SOUR JACKS sits on SARAH'S lap.
EXT. MOVING THEATER -- PARKING LOT
MOVIE THEATER MARQUEE
SARAH exits the building, then SIMON.
SIMON
What did you think?
SARAH pops in the last of her SOUR JACKS and SUCKS.
SARAH
I liked it.
SIMON
Kind of predictable.
SARAH
So?
SIMON shrugs.
SARAH freezes and sternly walks up to SIMON, as if to hit him. She fingers him to come closer. SIMON moves closer and she LATCHES around his neck and KISSES.
INT. MOVIE THEATER -- TICKET COUNTER
EMPLOYEE looks on from inside. He sees the KISS and gets angry.
EXT. MOVIE THEATER -- PARKING LOT
After the kiss, SARAH raises her eyebrows, smiles.
EMPLOYEE
Hey! Hey!
SARAH and SIMON turn to him.
EMPLOYEE
You lied to me!
SIMON turns away and starts walking back to his car.
EMPLOYEE
Hey! You lied to me!
SARAH
Deal with it!
SARAH walks back to the car and gets in. SIMON looks on at the angry EMPLOYEE scowling at him. SIMON sucks on the SOUR JACK in his mouth.
SARAH's door SLAMS.
EXT. SIDESTREET -- PASSING TIME
An old lady sits on her front porch with her cat. The cat is tied to a leash.
EXT. PARK -- DAY
PARK SIGN
A squirrel climbs over the PARK SIGN.
PARKED YELLOW MUSTANG
SIMON climbs up the wrong end of the slide and sits next to SARAH. It's afternoon and they sit, enjoying the hot weather, the birds SINGING, and the occasionally passing of cars in the distance.
AN OPEN BLUE SKY
SARAH turns to SIMON and brushes his hair back, whispers something in his ear. SIMON smirks.
WIDER VIEW
An open grassy field. BRIGHT GREEN ground; CLEAR BLUE sky.
SIMON is now STANDING at the top of the slide. SARAH is hidden out of view.
A summer SCHOOL BUS drives by in the distance.
INT. SCHOOL BUS
A KID looks towards the park and sees SIMON. From the waist down, the view is blocked by the jungle gym wood.
i liked it.. its not really clear what happened with the movie theater employee, but i loved the playground blowjob bit. i can see the smirk on simon's face as he nods to the kid. it makes me lol.
Could you expand on the movie theater bit? Was it too abrupt? forced? Did the employee seem to take too much of a 180? The scenes not clear enough? The point not clear enough? Thanks for the feedback so far. Even letting me know which scenes get a reaction is great feedback.
Here's the next 5 pages. Any and all comments welcomed!
edit: changed some formatting
Spoiler:
EXT. / INT. RAILROAD CROSSING / YELLOW MUSTANG
We HEAR the deafening BLUR of a passing train.
SARAH and SIMON try to read the GRAFFITI to each other as the train speeds by, as if it were a game.
Train ends. Silence.
SIMON looks at the clock. SARAH's laughter drops as she turns from SIMON to the clock.
5:50
EXT. SARAH’S HOUSE
The paint on the windows is peeling off, revealing the rotted wood underneath.
Down the street, the YELLOW MUSTANG drops off SARAH.
SIMON (O.S.)
See you.
SARAH waves and walks down to her house.
WIDER VIEW
SARAH walks to her yard, then stops at the grass line. Looks around. Cuts through he back and goes off screen.
EXT. SIDEWALK
BASKETBALL BOUNCES
A group of teenage boys huddle around some cars, drinking fountain drinks and smoking. One of the boys knocks the BASKETBALL away and across the street.
BASKETBALL BOUNCES PAST SARAH AND DOG
TOM
Heads up!
TOM jogs over to the two. He's wearing a baseball cap, sandals, khaki shorts, and a name-brand shirt.
He jogs past, grabs the ball, and returns to SARAH and DOG, blocking the sidewalk.
TOM
Sorry about that. They're assholes.
TOM nods to his friends. They WHISTLE and HOLLER.
TOM
My name is TOM.
He puts his hand out to shake.
SARAH doesn't look down. TOM returns his hand as if nothing happened.
TOM
What kind of DOG is that?
Silence.
TOM goes to pet the DOG. The DOG moves behind SARAH.
SARAH
She doesn't like you.
TOM
Want to join us?
SARAH
No thanks.
SARAH and dog walk past TOM.
TOM
Hey, what's your name?
SARAH looks back at TOM.
INT. SARAH’S HOUSE – SARAH’S ROOM
A DARK ROOM LIT BY MOONLIGHT
A shadow creeps by the window and we HEAR the window starting to open. SARAH climbs in and QUIETLY shuts it behind her.
She lies down on her bed, facing the mirror. She stares at herself in the dark room.
A hallway light turns on. We see a shadow walk past SARAH's DOOR. Then the shadow returns, stops.
The handle turns.
SARAH closes her eyes (We see this in the mirror).
INT. SARAH’S HOUSE – BATHROOM
We HEAR SARAH brushing her teeth.
GLADLOCK BAG WEITH APPLE AND HOT DOG
We hear a THUMP!
She brushes her teeth HARDER and HARDER.
EXT. PARK – PARKING LOT
SARAH and SIMON relax on the hood of the YELLOW MUSTANG, chewing on a couple of SLIM JIMS. Another beautiful day.
SIMON
I looked up that geese love.
A flock of birds fly overhead.
SARAH gets up and walks over to the swings. She sits down and starts turning in circles.
SARAH
Can you twist me?
CHAIN LINKS TWISTED TOGETHER DOWN TO SARAH'S STOMACH
SIMON
Ready?
SARAH nods. SIMON lets go and she TWIRLS in a circle.
SARAH'S FEET DANGLING ACROSS THE WOODCHIPS
INT. GROCERY STORE – SELF-CHECKOUT
PLASTIC BAG AT SELF-CHECKOUT
BING
A HOROSCOPE BOOK gets flung in.
BING
A box of POLYURETHANE CONDOMS gets flung in.
SELF-CHECKOUT MACHINE (O.S.)
Have you scanned all your items today? Your total is...Please select your form of payment...
SARAH grabs the bag after paying and looks out to the YELLOW MUSTANG.
INT. YELLOW MUSTANG
SIMON is texting someone on his phone.
LATER
SARAH
We are we going?
SIMON looks at SARAH and smirks.
SIMON
You'll see.
SARAH rummages through the plastic bag.
SIMON
What did you get?
She pulls out the HOROSCOPE BOOK and displays it to SIMON.
SIMON
What's my fortune?
He says with a grin. She grins back.
EXT. RESTAURANT – PARKING LOT
RESTAURANT SIGN
They get out of the YELLOW MUSTANG and enter. SARAH looks around.
INT. RESTAURANT
An old couple share a lunch together. A middle-aged woman shuffles around, taking orders. A bald, fat man stands over some burners in the back, cooking and sweating. A family owned diner.
SARAH and SIMON are waiting for their food. SIMON drinks a BEER; SARAH a strawberry MILKSHAKE.
SARAH
Where did you find this place?
The food comes.
SIMON
Oh, years ago. (TO SARAH) Thanks (TO WAITRESS)
SARAH (TO WAITRESS)
Thank you.
SIMON
I'm starving.
EMPTY PLATES. EMPTY GLASSES.
SARAH
That was good!
SIMON
Yeah.
SARAH
Why haven't we come before?
SIMON hesitates, fidgeting with his ring finger. He looks at the clock on the wall. SARAH does too.
5:50
EXT. SARAH’S HOUSE
The YELLOW MUSTANG drives off. SARAH heads to her house and then out of sight again. (beat). She comes back, looking around.
SARAH
JAY? Come here Jay!
She goes off screen again.
SARAH (O.S)
JAY? JAY!
She comes back, confused and defeated. She climbs in her window and shuts it behind her.
INT. SARAH’S HOUSE – SARAH’S ROOM
SARAH removes the HOROSCOPE BOOK from her back pocket and tosses it on the bed. She moves around, suspecting nothing.
FATHER STANDING IN THE DOORWAY
SARAH notices him and slumps back to the bed.
P.O.V. SARAH
FATHER moves in closer, reassuringly. As he gets closer, THE VIEW MOVES BACK out of the window.
THE VIEW continues to back away until we reach the sidewalk. A couple of little girls are walking. One of them shows off a new DOLL she just got.
part of the problem with putting out 5 pages at a time is that its obvious youre setting something up, but in many cases, you cant tell what exactly. having read a bit more, it feels like the tone keeps switching back and forth (and maybe thats intentional).
the scene with the movie theater employee feels like it was a set up to a confrontation to show us that simon has anger issues/is a smooth talker who can get out of anything/etc, but cutting away without a resolution to that bit makes it confusing. the employee reacting with that much anger is a bit of a stretch, but if, for example, he bought their SOB story and gave them a discount or something as an apology, he has much more reason to be upset.
the scenes with sarah and simon feel light hearted, like there isnt a care in the world. juxtaposed with the fact that she is sneaking in and out of her house, and that her father seems to be raping her? (at least, thats the sense that i got from those ominous scenes) the tonal shift is dramatic and very interesting, and if thats what you were going for, then bravo.
the only other thing that was confusing was does simon wear a wedding ring? he seemed to be playing with his ring finger, but you didnt say that there was a ring there. whether there is or isnt one, you should make that clear. "Plays with his ring finger, twisting the ring nervously" or "... rubs his empty finger, missing that part of him" or whatever it is.
the transition from 'food comes' to 'empty plates' seems a bit abrupt, but im not really sure what else you could do with it.
Thanks @Johnnycache and @tapeslinger. I Totally bungled that "voila" so I'm glad it was caught now rather than after I sent the script off ><
@psolms That's a great idea about the discount. Invest the employee more into the scene so then the turnaround seems more realistic. I really like that suggestion and I'm going to try it out, see where it goes. Simon is not wearing a wedding ring and I'll clear that up for sure because it's important that he's not, and the rest of your reading is pretty spot on.
I'll see what I can do with google docs, pdf, or some other way to make available the script. I saw the recent scuffle with the TV show guy and didn't want to annoy anyone like he did. I'm thinking I'll just offer an alternative for those who prefer to read it from google docs.
Well, if you feel you know the script format, just post it and let it left-justify. I was posting pages a while back looking for help with the actual format itself, so I pretty much had no choice but to host it
Simon feels like you've already cast him too young, to me. He feels like he needs to be damn near thirty. Like if she had actually gone off with bateman in Juno - it would have been a creepier film.
The implication with the dad is really, really, a creepy card to play. Until I read more, I can't say for sure, but it could be a note so dark it sours the rest of the movie (unless it's going to be a pretty cold movie)
"Maybe we're here to eat the sandwich." -- Joe Rogan
There's also the fact that he basically didn't do as instructed twice in a row and responded to none of the actual critique, just sassed the volunteers who were generous enough to offer their time. I don't think there is anything wrong with offering the longform in a Google doc provided that you are also making it available for the forum as well, even if more gradual
/notaMod
It's hard to judge this because it feels like a lot of implication would be happening in the acting and what the actors portray that way as almost nothing comes through what they are saying as they always talk around things, which is the kind of thing that drives me nuts in literary stories and this kind of movie.
The conversations are also too fragmented. They start conversations and they drift off in weird ways with nobody saying anything and then get picked up later and ignored again. The later part of that complain is more closely tied to the geese mating for life thing.
It also feels too dark and jumps into the darkness quickly. Simon seems like a jerk quickly in the story and, I'm guessing as to the later parts of the movie, but he's probably going to leave Sarah like a dick, and you need to make him nice at first so that turn seems more interesting and surprising to the viewer.
The Dad thing is too dark as well, which might work better as backstory especially seeing as Sarah has a grown up boyfriend she could talk to and have him help her and he'd notice something is wrong. I feel like too much of everything is happening underneath the actual story and the implications become important, but too much is implied, talked around, and ignored.
There are a lot of details here that I'm not sure you're thinking about.
First and foremost, there are a LOT of setups. Even when you go back to a place, there's nothing there to help establish there's a time difference. An audience watching is in danger of losing track, and filming it is going to be expensive. You're almost certainly going to have to condense some of these to single scenes.
Other things that bothered me:
- gut full of broken years - what exactly is this communicating?
- cigarette - he's about to flick it out the window, so it's just about done, but his ash tray is clean? Is this relevant?
- laughing with a gladlock bag with an apple in it in your mouth sounds hard. You sure you want to set that task for your poor actor? What human being does that?
- popcorn: where is it? Unless I'm missing something, it must be in his lap, since she's got sour jacks and their arms are in between. Which doesn't fit with both of them reaching over anything.
- your pacing is odd. You cut between scenes very quickly, but your stage directions are lavish without being particularly specific. The first sequence in particular is hard to read - the first time I read it it felt very slow because you're suggesting wide-open shots, but the second time I felt like the cuts necessitated something faster. I think the stage directions are part of the problem here.
On the other hand, there's a good rhythm to what you're doing with these two characters. They feel like there's a need in each of them, although I agree that Simon is, so far, an obvious jerk, but then, Sarah feels like a pretty obvious teenage wreck, so the pair is either classic or cliche, depending on what gets done with them.
Overall my concern right now is that you aren't necessarily earning your moments. I think this is what's wrong with the father bit. There's part of me that thinks the brushing of her teeth could act as an emotional wrench or motif, but I think you would need to repeat it at least once leading up to that point, preferably attached to a little more information about what's going on with her.
liquiddark on
Current project: Old Man Hero, a graphic novel in three parts @oldmanherotumblr
yeah the character dialog has a very interesting subtext to it. like, they both know what they're both doing, and they're not really happy about it, but they're trying to enjoy it in the moment because presumably the rest of their lives are shitty. its like a resigned 'carpe diem'. very interested to read more.
the critique about not earning your moments is valid and even true, but in the first ten minutes of the film, youre really just establishing things, so, even if there are these jarring moments, it feels like its meant to be a part of that whimsical feeling. or maybe im giving you too much of a benefit of the doubt
@Magell
The dad thing has been around since inception and it may be time for it to go. Alternatively, I could just make it seem like he's lazy and apathetic rather than straight out abusive. Part of me likes to be able to imply something without ever saying it and let the reader draw his or her own conclusions, but if the father thing overshadows the main narrative it may just have to go. I really don't want it to go, but so is life.
@liquiddark
Haha, you caught me on some of my more creative descriptions. A professor use to call me out on descriptions such as a "gut full of broken years" and ask, "what does that look like?" Sometimes though, I just get carried away with the language. For instance, I described a character once as someone who acted "as if the world owed him money". Again, I got called out on it--"what does that look like?"
I really like the idea of with the brushing her teeth. I'll play around with that, see if I can do something with it, considering some other revisions with the father.
As for dialogue and pacing, well, when I watch movies or shows I tend to get easily annoyed with dialogue that's obvious exposition and I roll my eyes. I don't like dialogue that asks a question that the audience is obvious pondering themselves--who talks like that? Part of the trick for me then, I think, is going to be balancing my disdain for expository dialogue with my love for implication only.
Like the "geese" thing, originally I had Simon return that he looked it up and explain how geese don't mate for life--a little bit of a rift between the two. In retrospect, I thought I was giving away too much or being too "clever", but maybe not.
A short there-abouts of the plot is below if you're interested. The only other main character we haven't met is Jen. She's pretty cool.
Spoiler:
Sarah and Simon > Simon arrested (for fraud), Sarah runs away > Sarah runs into Jen > Jen happens to be Simon's wife > Jen tries to understand what went on with Simon and Sarah, trying not to reveal her real relationship with Simon > Simon returns and the three meet > Sarah runs out into traffic > Simon gets hit by a car (driven by Tom) trying to save Sarah > Simon becomes comatose > Jen and Sarah end up as friends
@JohnnyCache
I think you're right about Simon's age.
There's lots of ways to make the dad creepy without it hitting that level. When you do, there's essentially no way her relationship with simon can be anything but a creepy projection of that creepy relationship
The cigarette I took to be deliberate characterization - the implication to me is he generally litters, but changes his mind when being watched
"Maybe we're here to eat the sandwich." -- Joe Rogan
The scenes here change SO quickly and while I appreciate you not wanting to expound on things too much over dialogue, there's almost NO dialogue actually present here. There's a lot of idle talk and conversations like "What did you think?" "I liked it" feel like they stand out really awkwardly to me. I think it's perhaps this expectation that I should be feeling for these characters (or at least her), but so far there's really not a lot that makes me want to invest myself in them.
I think @liquiddark hit the nail on the head in that you're using a lot of setups that are either classic or cliche and while you could still make it work, it feels like it's missing the mark for me. A window with a spiderweb crack, a fridge with mainly beer and bread, and broken lightbulbs do all set the scenes but it plays entirely into the hand you've already shown us of a sort of "typical" messed up teen from a messed up home with a jerk boyfriend. I need something that kind of shakes up the status of the whole thing and makes the more cliche parts seem more interesting.
I understand this seems very minimalistic in dialogue on purpose and has a kind of muted tone (also on purpose, I'm assuming), but I think that's all the reason to make your details unique and have them stand out rather than playing into something the audience is already familiar with or can guess about. You picture a crappy home and this is pretty much exactly what you might picture, which doesn't leave a lot for me to guess about or be interested in.
The line about the geese, for example, is passable, but her follow-up of "That's love, right?" while sounding typically teenagerish just sounds really cheesy to my ears and plays into the hand you've already set up.
Thanks @vanitypants. I have some ideas already for adding more interesting elements and since I've begun writing them in, they've been working well with a revised father figure.
I have plenty to work with now, so I'm going to get to it and also get a nicely formatted version available for the future. I've already made several revisions, but going to continue on some more and see if I can get at least until the inciting incident completed to come back with.
Thanks all again, this has been excellent.
@Johnncache, I think you mentioned earlier you were looking for advice to format a script? There's a nice free program at www.celtx.com that may help you out. There's limitations on the free version (no PDF, can't export, and some others), but it's a cloud based system (can work from anywhere with the net) and an easy to navigate UI. If you want to buy, I think you can do a monthly or yearly sub.
Just curious, is everyone familiar with what I mean by a "setup"? That is, a physical camera location and angle? It's not something you necessarily think about when you're writing a script, but when you're revising it's something you absolutely have to look at. Every time that camera changes, you're burning money.
Current project: Old Man Hero, a graphic novel in three parts @oldmanherotumblr
Ah, I was taught to not bother with camera shots and have limited movement with actors because the camera is for the director and the actions are for the actors. So yeah, I'm not particularly thinking about camera placement at this venture =p I shall now though
i dont think that you need to be worried about that, thats for the producer/director to worry about. if your screenplay is telling an interesting story well, they will make any number of setups work to deliver it.
unless, that is, you are planning on directing/producing this as an indie film. in which case, maybe take it into consideration, but dont let it drive your storytelling. someone can always go back and make revisions (in fact, if it gets picked up, they ABSOLUTELY will) - the diner scene works better as a hot dog stand, the car should be red to symbolize x, etc. your job is to tell the story. if you try and think about the production costs of actually filming it, youre limiting yourself creatively, for honestly, no reason.
Sarah and Simon > Simon arrested (for fraud), Sarah runs away > Sarah runs into Jen > Jen happens to be Simon's wife > Jen tries to understand what went on with Simon and Sarah, trying not to reveal her real relationship with Simon > Simon returns and the three meet > Sarah runs out into traffic > Simon gets hit by a car (driven by Tom) trying to save Sarah > Simon becomes comatose > Jen and Sarah end up as friends
so Simon is married, and the fact that he's not wearing his ring is important... you should try to make that clear earlier. maybe in the scene where he drops sarah off, we linger on him as he pulls out his ring from the glove box and puts it back on or something similar.
but getting back to the protagonist...
it feels like youre setting up sarah to be the protag, but she doesnt really seem to grow or change in this plot overview. in fact, i just have so many questions:
Spoiler:
-why does jen want to understand simon/sarah? surely the normal reaction would be jealousy? you'll have to work very hard to make this point believable.
-why wouldnt simon try to hide his relationship with sarah? again, this is something youll have to work hard at.
-why did sarah run into traffic? this seems fairly childish and arbitrary, especially if she is the protag and this is presumably the climax.. at which time, the protag should be just about to/in the middle of accomplishing/growing
-why does the fact that it was tom matter?
-jen + sarah is honestly a point i just cannot get over. unless somehow they unite in their hatred of simon, but in that case, the obvious question is: why the fuck is jen with this cheating douche?
if you feel like your script will answer any of them for itself, thats fine, dont feel like you need to justify yourself to me. these are just the nagging questions i have about the outline.
in many ways, this feels more like an outline of events, rather then a plot. i would challenge you to try to write out an overview of the plot in 5-7 sentences that would give a very general look at the story being told.
as an example (making some assumptions based on what i've seen so far):
Spoiler:
Sarah and Simon are carefree lovers; that is, they dont care what anyone thinks about their obvious age difference, but Simon is hiding a secret from Sarah: Jen. His wife. After he is arrested for fraud, Sarah and Jen meet, unexpectedly forging a friendship. When Simon is released from jail, Sarah's world is turned upside down by the revelation that she was her new best friend's cheating husband's mistress. Unable to cope with her role in tearing their marriage apart, but also unable to cope without Simon, the only stable thing in her life, she tries to kill herself. Simon, who finds himself in love with both women and unable to choose, leaps to save Sarah, mortally wounding himself in the process. With his death, the two women find comfort in their friendship and begin the process of healing their own wounds.
One small thing is you are writing your description like you would in a story, but that isn't the place for fluff and BS. Just say what is there. It's not supposed to be florid language just the facts so a casting director knows what to find in an actor, and set design knows what to create, or the location to scout for.
Like I said, don't think about the production process when you're writing the script. But when you're revising, as I assume you are right now, you should absolutely think about it. If you don't, you're just asking for someone else to come and rip the guts out of your words.
if your screenplay is telling an interesting story well, they will make any number of setups work to deliver it.
This is flat-out wrong. Individual setups can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars when you factor in crew time, location rentals, extras, craft services, and any number of other expenses. Even when you are filming a very low-budget movie, you will at some point have to worry about these things. I would recommend anyone who writes for film read at least one book on production or (even better) production management. If you're not aware of the expense list for a film it can be shocking how much everything costs.
liquiddark on
Current project: Old Man Hero, a graphic novel in three parts @oldmanherotumblr
I don't know if any of you list to John August and Craig Mazin's podcast, Scriptnotes, but there's a ton of good insight in there about writing for the screen. John's blog is pretty wonderful as well. One of the things that they talk about fairly often in the podcast is the idea that screenwriting is not like other forms of writing. It's a set of instructions for how to make a movie. You want your instructions to be engaging enough to keep the readers' attention, but you HAVE to make them clear enough to make the movie.
Current project: Old Man Hero, a graphic novel in three parts @oldmanherotumblr
Even when you are filming a very low-budget movie, you will at some point have to worry about these things.
this is the key.
the 'at some point' is 'when production is starting'. no executive producer/director looks at a finished script and says "man, that looks surprisingly easy to film. its a good thing the script writer did our job for us. better go make his movie now, regardless of how good it is."
if you are writing a script, your job is to tell an interesting story. period.
if you want to be involved in the production, that might be a different story, but dont let that distract you from writing an interesting story first.
when i said 'they'll make it work', i was being hyperbolic. what i meant was that before production starts, they (the producer, the director) will go through your script and make changes. some of those changes will be the location/time of scenes. some of them will be the order of scenes. whatever they feel like is needed to make the movie work, both creatively, and financially. except in the case of a very small budget indie film, this is not the screenwriter's job.
there's nothing saying you cant try to make this easier by thinking about it, and if you want to, sure. but, right now at least, you should be focusing on telling an interesting story. i guess thats my main point - your story has potential, but it needs a thorough revision, simply for the story's sake. dont let the production costs distract you from that goal.
besides, regardless of what you do, when a director gets attached, (s)he will have a vision for the film, and (s)he will change whatever (s)he needs to make it fit that.
edit: to your other point @liquiddark - i agree with you. the screenplay should be essentially an instruction manual for making this a movie, but at the core of it, you still need to be telling an interesting story.
I guess it's a difference in approaches. I'm with Mamet on this one
THINK LIKE A FILMMAKER RATHER THAN A FUNCTIONARY, BECAUSE, IN TRUTH, YOU ARE MAKING THE FILM. WHAT YOU WRITE, THEY WILL SHOOT.
im content to agree - it lies in the differences in approaches. the only caveat being that in that memo, he is talking to the TV writing staff- TV is a different beast all together. many shows (cartoons notwithstanding) often start shooting with an incomplete script, due to the hectic schedule of weekly (or bi weekly) drama/comedy/etc. and for TV - absolutely, you need to be thinking about how they are going to shoot it, because its unlikely that they will have time to change it before they start shooting.
to be fair though, you also get to work with a large writing staff, so probably makes it a bit easier to keep that kind of stuff in mind.
anyways, im glad to have had this discussion, because it is a fundamentally interesting question: ideas vs execution. how much should you take execution into account while developing your ideas? very interesting to see other opinions on it.
Like I said, don't think about the production process when you're writing the script. But when you're revising, as I assume you are right now, you should absolutely think about it. If you don't, you're just asking for someone else to come and rip the guts out of your words.
if your screenplay is telling an interesting story well, they will make any number of setups work to deliver it.
This is flat-out wrong. Individual setups can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars when you factor in crew time, location rentals, extras, craft services, and any number of other expenses. Even when you are filming a very low-budget movie, you will at some point have to worry about these things. I would recommend anyone who writes for film read at least one book on production or (even better) production management. If you're not aware of the expense list for a film it can be shocking how much everything costs.
Could you recommend a few?
"Maybe we're here to eat the sandwich." -- Joe Rogan
I like Deb Patz's book, but you can find a bunch of good ones on the TheatreBooks Producing list. If you live in Ontario, TheatreBooks is generally a great place to start for anything in the performing arts.
Current project: Old Man Hero, a graphic novel in three parts @oldmanherotumblr
I will check those out, although sadly I do not live in toronto. I admire the moose and health care system of my comrades to the north immensely, though.
"Maybe we're here to eat the sandwich." -- Joe Rogan
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Could you expand on the movie theater bit? Was it too abrupt? forced? Did the employee seem to take too much of a 180? The scenes not clear enough? The point not clear enough? Thanks for the feedback so far. Even letting me know which scenes get a reaction is great feedback.
Here's the next 5 pages. Any and all comments welcomed!
edit: changed some formatting
the scene with the movie theater employee feels like it was a set up to a confrontation to show us that simon has anger issues/is a smooth talker who can get out of anything/etc, but cutting away without a resolution to that bit makes it confusing. the employee reacting with that much anger is a bit of a stretch, but if, for example, he bought their SOB story and gave them a discount or something as an apology, he has much more reason to be upset.
the scenes with sarah and simon feel light hearted, like there isnt a care in the world. juxtaposed with the fact that she is sneaking in and out of her house, and that her father seems to be raping her? (at least, thats the sense that i got from those ominous scenes) the tonal shift is dramatic and very interesting, and if thats what you were going for, then bravo.
the only other thing that was confusing was does simon wear a wedding ring? he seemed to be playing with his ring finger, but you didnt say that there was a ring there. whether there is or isnt one, you should make that clear. "Plays with his ring finger, twisting the ring nervously" or "... rubs his empty finger, missing that part of him" or whatever it is.
the transition from 'food comes' to 'empty plates' seems a bit abrupt, but im not really sure what else you could do with it.
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seriously we gotta figure something out for scripts. I don't personally mind clicking through to google docs for them.
@psolms That's a great idea about the discount. Invest the employee more into the scene so then the turnaround seems more realistic. I really like that suggestion and I'm going to try it out, see where it goes. Simon is not wearing a wedding ring and I'll clear that up for sure because it's important that he's not, and the rest of your reading is pretty spot on.
I'll see what I can do with google docs, pdf, or some other way to make available the script. I saw the recent scuffle with the TV show guy and didn't want to annoy anyone like he did. I'm thinking I'll just offer an alternative for those who prefer to read it from google docs.
Simon feels like you've already cast him too young, to me. He feels like he needs to be damn near thirty. Like if she had actually gone off with bateman in Juno - it would have been a creepier film.
The implication with the dad is really, really, a creepy card to play. Until I read more, I can't say for sure, but it could be a note so dark it sours the rest of the movie (unless it's going to be a pretty cold movie)
/notaMod
jayxwolf.com || twit || fb || writing || ravelry || dA || g++
The conversations are also too fragmented. They start conversations and they drift off in weird ways with nobody saying anything and then get picked up later and ignored again. The later part of that complain is more closely tied to the geese mating for life thing.
It also feels too dark and jumps into the darkness quickly. Simon seems like a jerk quickly in the story and, I'm guessing as to the later parts of the movie, but he's probably going to leave Sarah like a dick, and you need to make him nice at first so that turn seems more interesting and surprising to the viewer.
The Dad thing is too dark as well, which might work better as backstory especially seeing as Sarah has a grown up boyfriend she could talk to and have him help her and he'd notice something is wrong. I feel like too much of everything is happening underneath the actual story and the implications become important, but too much is implied, talked around, and ignored.
The introduction of Tom is weird as well.
{Twitter, Everybody's doing it. }{My Rambling Blog}
First and foremost, there are a LOT of setups. Even when you go back to a place, there's nothing there to help establish there's a time difference. An audience watching is in danger of losing track, and filming it is going to be expensive. You're almost certainly going to have to condense some of these to single scenes.
Other things that bothered me:
- gut full of broken years - what exactly is this communicating?
- cigarette - he's about to flick it out the window, so it's just about done, but his ash tray is clean? Is this relevant?
- laughing with a gladlock bag with an apple in it in your mouth sounds hard. You sure you want to set that task for your poor actor? What human being does that?
- popcorn: where is it? Unless I'm missing something, it must be in his lap, since she's got sour jacks and their arms are in between. Which doesn't fit with both of them reaching over anything.
- your pacing is odd. You cut between scenes very quickly, but your stage directions are lavish without being particularly specific. The first sequence in particular is hard to read - the first time I read it it felt very slow because you're suggesting wide-open shots, but the second time I felt like the cuts necessitated something faster. I think the stage directions are part of the problem here.
On the other hand, there's a good rhythm to what you're doing with these two characters. They feel like there's a need in each of them, although I agree that Simon is, so far, an obvious jerk, but then, Sarah feels like a pretty obvious teenage wreck, so the pair is either classic or cliche, depending on what gets done with them.
Overall my concern right now is that you aren't necessarily earning your moments. I think this is what's wrong with the father bit. There's part of me that thinks the brushing of her teeth could act as an emotional wrench or motif, but I think you would need to repeat it at least once leading up to that point, preferably attached to a little more information about what's going on with her.
@oldmanhero tumblr
the critique about not earning your moments is valid and even true, but in the first ten minutes of the film, youre really just establishing things, so, even if there are these jarring moments, it feels like its meant to be a part of that whimsical feeling. or maybe im giving you too much of a benefit of the doubt
@Magell
The dad thing has been around since inception and it may be time for it to go. Alternatively, I could just make it seem like he's lazy and apathetic rather than straight out abusive. Part of me likes to be able to imply something without ever saying it and let the reader draw his or her own conclusions, but if the father thing overshadows the main narrative it may just have to go. I really don't want it to go, but so is life.
@liquiddark
Haha, you caught me on some of my more creative descriptions. A professor use to call me out on descriptions such as a "gut full of broken years" and ask, "what does that look like?" Sometimes though, I just get carried away with the language. For instance, I described a character once as someone who acted "as if the world owed him money". Again, I got called out on it--"what does that look like?"
I really like the idea of with the brushing her teeth. I'll play around with that, see if I can do something with it, considering some other revisions with the father.
As for dialogue and pacing, well, when I watch movies or shows I tend to get easily annoyed with dialogue that's obvious exposition and I roll my eyes. I don't like dialogue that asks a question that the audience is obvious pondering themselves--who talks like that? Part of the trick for me then, I think, is going to be balancing my disdain for expository dialogue with my love for implication only.
Like the "geese" thing, originally I had Simon return that he looked it up and explain how geese don't mate for life--a little bit of a rift between the two. In retrospect, I thought I was giving away too much or being too "clever", but maybe not.
A short there-abouts of the plot is below if you're interested. The only other main character we haven't met is Jen. She's pretty cool.
@JohnnyCache
I think you're right about Simon's age.
The cigarette I took to be deliberate characterization - the implication to me is he generally litters, but changes his mind when being watched
I think @liquiddark hit the nail on the head in that you're using a lot of setups that are either classic or cliche and while you could still make it work, it feels like it's missing the mark for me. A window with a spiderweb crack, a fridge with mainly beer and bread, and broken lightbulbs do all set the scenes but it plays entirely into the hand you've already shown us of a sort of "typical" messed up teen from a messed up home with a jerk boyfriend. I need something that kind of shakes up the status of the whole thing and makes the more cliche parts seem more interesting.
I understand this seems very minimalistic in dialogue on purpose and has a kind of muted tone (also on purpose, I'm assuming), but I think that's all the reason to make your details unique and have them stand out rather than playing into something the audience is already familiar with or can guess about. You picture a crappy home and this is pretty much exactly what you might picture, which doesn't leave a lot for me to guess about or be interested in.
The line about the geese, for example, is passable, but her follow-up of "That's love, right?" while sounding typically teenagerish just sounds really cheesy to my ears and plays into the hand you've already set up.
I have plenty to work with now, so I'm going to get to it and also get a nicely formatted version available for the future. I've already made several revisions, but going to continue on some more and see if I can get at least until the inciting incident completed to come back with.
Thanks all again, this has been excellent.
@Johnncache, I think you mentioned earlier you were looking for advice to format a script? There's a nice free program at www.celtx.com that may help you out. There's limitations on the free version (no PDF, can't export, and some others), but it's a cloud based system (can work from anywhere with the net) and an easy to navigate UI. If you want to buy, I think you can do a monthly or yearly sub.
@oldmanhero tumblr
unless, that is, you are planning on directing/producing this as an indie film. in which case, maybe take it into consideration, but dont let it drive your storytelling. someone can always go back and make revisions (in fact, if it gets picked up, they ABSOLUTELY will) - the diner scene works better as a hot dog stand, the car should be red to symbolize x, etc. your job is to tell the story. if you try and think about the production costs of actually filming it, youre limiting yourself creatively, for honestly, no reason.
who is the protagonist in this story? looking at the outline:
so Simon is married, and the fact that he's not wearing his ring is important... you should try to make that clear earlier. maybe in the scene where he drops sarah off, we linger on him as he pulls out his ring from the glove box and puts it back on or something similar.
but getting back to the protagonist...
it feels like youre setting up sarah to be the protag, but she doesnt really seem to grow or change in this plot overview. in fact, i just have so many questions:
-why wouldnt simon try to hide his relationship with sarah? again, this is something youll have to work hard at.
-why did sarah run into traffic? this seems fairly childish and arbitrary, especially if she is the protag and this is presumably the climax.. at which time, the protag should be just about to/in the middle of accomplishing/growing
-why does the fact that it was tom matter?
-jen + sarah is honestly a point i just cannot get over. unless somehow they unite in their hatred of simon, but in that case, the obvious question is: why the fuck is jen with this cheating douche?
if you feel like your script will answer any of them for itself, thats fine, dont feel like you need to justify yourself to me. these are just the nagging questions i have about the outline.
in many ways, this feels more like an outline of events, rather then a plot. i would challenge you to try to write out an overview of the plot in 5-7 sentences that would give a very general look at the story being told.
as an example (making some assumptions based on what i've seen so far):
{Twitter, Everybody's doing it. }{My Rambling Blog}
This is flat-out wrong. Individual setups can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars when you factor in crew time, location rentals, extras, craft services, and any number of other expenses. Even when you are filming a very low-budget movie, you will at some point have to worry about these things. I would recommend anyone who writes for film read at least one book on production or (even better) production management. If you're not aware of the expense list for a film it can be shocking how much everything costs.
@oldmanhero tumblr
@oldmanhero tumblr
this is the key.
the 'at some point' is 'when production is starting'. no executive producer/director looks at a finished script and says "man, that looks surprisingly easy to film. its a good thing the script writer did our job for us. better go make his movie now, regardless of how good it is."
if you are writing a script, your job is to tell an interesting story. period.
if you want to be involved in the production, that might be a different story, but dont let that distract you from writing an interesting story first.
when i said 'they'll make it work', i was being hyperbolic. what i meant was that before production starts, they (the producer, the director) will go through your script and make changes. some of those changes will be the location/time of scenes. some of them will be the order of scenes. whatever they feel like is needed to make the movie work, both creatively, and financially. except in the case of a very small budget indie film, this is not the screenwriter's job.
there's nothing saying you cant try to make this easier by thinking about it, and if you want to, sure. but, right now at least, you should be focusing on telling an interesting story. i guess thats my main point - your story has potential, but it needs a thorough revision, simply for the story's sake. dont let the production costs distract you from that goal.
besides, regardless of what you do, when a director gets attached, (s)he will have a vision for the film, and (s)he will change whatever (s)he needs to make it fit that.
edit: to your other point @liquiddark - i agree with you. the screenplay should be essentially an instruction manual for making this a movie, but at the core of it, you still need to be telling an interesting story.
@oldmanhero tumblr
im content to agree - it lies in the differences in approaches. the only caveat being that in that memo, he is talking to the TV writing staff- TV is a different beast all together. many shows (cartoons notwithstanding) often start shooting with an incomplete script, due to the hectic schedule of weekly (or bi weekly) drama/comedy/etc. and for TV - absolutely, you need to be thinking about how they are going to shoot it, because its unlikely that they will have time to change it before they start shooting.
to be fair though, you also get to work with a large writing staff, so probably makes it a bit easier to keep that kind of stuff in mind.
anyways, im glad to have had this discussion, because it is a fundamentally interesting question: ideas vs execution. how much should you take execution into account while developing your ideas? very interesting to see other opinions on it.
Could you recommend a few?
@oldmanhero tumblr