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[WARMACHINE & HORDES] Gargantuans is out and awesome! (Except for the Gargantuans)

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Posts

  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Dr. Doctor Oakland, CARegistered User regular
    I'm kind of glad that people are feeling this way. I want Colossals to remain only an option. Something that I may have to deal with in certain situations, of course, but not something I'm going to see all the time, and not something that breaks the game.

  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Dino-czar wrote: »
    Yeah, thats where the whiners have retreated to. They started at "just broken" and have fallen all the way to "2 stormwalls, pHaley, Mechanics, A&H... against Cryx... is really hard".

    Personally, I am totally okay with Cryx having a tough match-up. Because fuck'em.

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    COME FORTH, AMATERASU!
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    PMAvers wrote: »
    Dino-czar wrote: »
    Yeah, thats where the whiners have retreated to. They started at "just broken" and have fallen all the way to "2 stormwalls, pHaley, Mechanics, A&H... against Cryx... is really hard".

    Personally, I am totally okay with Cryx having a tough match-up. Because fuck'em.

    Given who I've seen whining about the Stormwall, I've been this close to asking him if it's a different sound when the whale is undead :rotate:

  • Dino-czarDino-czar Registered User
    edited June 2012
    PMAvers wrote: »
    Dino-czar wrote: »
    Yeah, thats where the whiners have retreated to. They started at "just broken" and have fallen all the way to "2 stormwalls, pHaley, Mechanics, A&H... against Cryx... is really hard".

    Personally, I am totally okay with Cryx having a tough match-up. Because fuck'em.

    But here's the thing: pHaley already fucked cryx. That she still fucks them when she has two Stormwallls is unsurprising.

    Dino-czar on
  • SJSJ Registered User regular
    Stormwall is solid, but it's pretty strictly a control and contest piece. It's not a brute force piece. That's what our normal 'jacks are for. Honestly I want to run one bonded to eStryker so I can get some big gun support and screen my infantry walking up the board.

  • WitchsightWitchsight Registered User regular
    Id love to grab a Stormwall, "Once i have my next 25pts painted". Thats not easy to say or believe.

    Silly question time!
    Teaching my friend how to play WM, and he asked if line of sight or straight lines were needed to declare a charge. I assumed as much, but flipping through the book I didnt see anything saying that either were specifically needed... Is that really the case or did i miss it?

    Witchsight.jpg
  • EterenalEterenal Registered User regular
    You must target a model in order to declare a charge. In order to target a model you need LoS. Additionally, charging models must move in a straight line, though not directly towards the model they charge, you can charge at an angle that gets you into melee with the target.

    None of that is quoted direct from the book, but that is how it works.

    admanb wrote: »
    Always remember that beasts have two states: dead, and fucking your face.
  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    As Eterenal said, the charging model doesn't need a straight line to declare a charge, but it does have to move in a straight line once it does.

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  • WitchsightWitchsight Registered User regular
    Eterenal wrote: »
    None of that is quoted direct from the book, but that is how it works.

    Thats exactly what i need sometimes :P
    Thanks both for the reminder. The longer i play, the less succinct that book becomes!

    Witchsight.jpg
  • General NemoGeneral Nemo Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    My thoughts on Colossals (Spoilered for Loooong):
    Spoiler:
    Also this article: http://www.amazingmtg.com/jg_wm_colossals

    General Nemo on
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D tankstankstanks San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Anyone decided to take up Circle yet? >_>

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Registered User regular
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    Anyone decided to take up Circle yet? >_>

    Nah. Had my fill of furry jokes back in the 90s.

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  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    I took up Circle once, and then I took a arrow to the knee.

    (And realized I hated playing them back in Mark I. And so ended up selling them to my brother, who used to play Menoth and converted full-time to Circle.)

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    COME FORTH, AMATERASU!
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D tankstankstanks San DiegoRegistered User regular
    I'm never going to sell the remains of my former Circle army at this rate. :(

    Taking miniature painting commission work! PM for samples, or check the art thread.
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  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Dr. Doctor Oakland, CARegistered User regular
    I would buy them, probably, if I had the cash to spend. Unless you'd be willing to trade them for some Eldar stuff?

  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D tankstankstanks San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Maybe half and half! I'm still trying to figure out what I'd want for 6th once I give the ally rules a read-over. I'd definitely want a Farseer and whatever else would go best with a Dark Eldar crew.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Registered User regular
    I'm going to end up with a small Circle army just from buying the two-army Hordes pack when that comes out. Going to have so many proxy puppies.

    freefallagent.jpg
  • SJSJ Registered User regular
    God the Circle starter is so terribly awfully bad

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    The two-player box is great though. Five Skinwalkers for $50.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Registered User regular
    It would be rather interesting if they sold "Theme Packs" that got you a Tier 4 army for a particular warcaster/lock.

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  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Dr. Doctor Oakland, CARegistered User regular
    Well, if you like Skinwalkers it's great. They're great models but lackluster rules, IMO. The two-player is slightly better than the starter though, since it at least has a Winter Argus instead of two regular Argii.

  • kaortikaorti Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    It would be rather interesting if they sold "Theme Packs" that got you a Tier 4 army for a particular warcaster/lock.

    It's a good thing they don't. Theme lists are a bad way to learn the game. Only a few are any good, and all of them require you to give up important tools.

    Besides, there are way too many casters for them to practically keep them in stock.

    Edit: Hey @admanb @SJ, what makes a 50pt eStryker list work?

    kaorti on
  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Dr. Doctor Oakland, CARegistered User regular
    I don't think call-outs work when edited in, but @admanb @SJ maybe check this out please?

  • SJSJ Registered User regular
    kaorti wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    It would be rather interesting if they sold "Theme Packs" that got you a Tier 4 army for a particular warcaster/lock.

    It's a good thing they don't. Theme lists are a bad way to learn the game. Only a few are any good, and all of them require you to give up important tools.

    Besides, there are way too many casters for them to practically keep them in stock.

    Edit: Hey @admanb @SJ, what makes a 50pt eStryker list work?

    Not going overboard on the feat. Best case scenario you take a lot of melee stuff and you end up jamming yourself in and making your dudes a prime target for counter attack. He's a mid-field caster that likes to play a little control while looking big and menacing so your opponents have to play really carefully with their caster - don't take stupid risks with him, and liberally apply his spells. I especially like lightning storm, it's underrated but people don't expect you to be dropping lightning covering fire templates everywhere to protect your dudes.

    Generally I take 2 heavies with him, though I used to take 2 + Lancer because Goddamn I love rebuke. Watch Cryx players cry when you arc rebuke onto some bile thralls while you wade into their stuff, it's pretty great. Anyways, I've run a few different things with him over time:
    Spoiler:
    Spoiler:

    Though honestly I kind of need to get into the swing of things with Stryker again. I've been playing too much pHaley lately and it's dulled my senses :P

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Registered User regular
    kaorti wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    It would be rather interesting if they sold "Theme Packs" that got you a Tier 4 army for a particular warcaster/lock.

    It's a good thing they don't. Theme lists are a bad way to learn the game. Only a few are any good, and all of them require you to give up important tools.

    Besides, there are way too many casters for them to practically keep them in stock.

    Edit: Hey @admanb @SJ, what makes a 50pt eStryker list work?

    I meant more in the "discount package" sense.

    freefallagent.jpg
  • CaenemCaenem Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Dino-czar wrote: »
    Yeah, thats where the whiners have retreated to. They started at "just broken" and have fallen all the way to "2 stormwalls, pHaley, Mechanics, A&H... against Cryx... is really hard". In another couple weeks (when some of the pundits have actually used the models) they'll drop off to just "I still don't like what they do to the game".

    I've been playing Darius with a Stormwall, 2 Hammersmiths and a Stormstrider. Without the Strider it wouldn't work. The infantry control is vital.

    Once I get some more games under my belt I'll rotate to either pStyker or a Haley.

    Stormwall with Arcane Shield at 35 pts is straight busted vs hordes with no buff removal. I played Saeryn vs eStryker with Stormwall, Storm knights (the ones that can get the shooty gun weapon attachments?), junior, and I think a minuteman because he had exactly that weird point value left over. 2 Scytheans and 1 Angel shut 1 side down and took maybe half of the other side. 3 beasts and 12 pts of fury. It was the roughest matchup I've played in a loong time. At 50 points I can start to handle it better. But my god @ 35 with Arcane shield that thing is disgusting if you can't strip the shield.

    As for Skinwalkers, why take them when you have access to gator posse? The posse pretty much makes nearly all medium based infantry obsolete.

    Caenem on
    But you, pig, are a lucky one. Tell us what we wish to know, and you may yet keep your bacon.
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  • TheConstantWayTheConstantWay Registered User regular
    Theme forces (Kaya), Faction models to trigger Warpath (Kromac) or get upkeeps (Morvanna?), sweet league rules? I'unno.

  • Dino-czarDino-czar Registered User
    Caenem wrote: »
    Stormwall with Arcane Shield at 35 pts is straight busted vs hordes with no buff removal. I played Saeryn vs eStryker with Stormwall, Storm knights (the ones that can get the shooty gun weapon attachments?), junior, and I think a minuteman because he had exactly that weird point value left over. 2 Scytheans and 1 Angel shut 1 side down and took maybe half of the other side. 3 beasts and 12 pts of fury. It was the roughest matchup I've played in a loong time. At 50 points I can start to handle it better. But my god @ 35 with Arcane shield that thing is disgusting if you can't strip the shield.

    So... it took 2 turns to kill the S'wall? Is that really out of balance? The wall and junior were ~50% of his list, after all.

  • VanguardVanguard for the Night is Dark and Full of Big Areolas Registered User regular
    I haven't played this game in a while. I should do that.

    I love pills and would not mind being on more of them

    I'm giving away a free copy of The Burning Wheel rulebook for free RPG Day 2013! Click here for details.
  • CaenemCaenem Registered User regular
    Dino-czar wrote: »
    Caenem wrote: »
    Stormwall with Arcane Shield at 35 pts is straight busted vs hordes with no buff removal. I played Saeryn vs eStryker with Stormwall, Storm knights (the ones that can get the shooty gun weapon attachments?), junior, and I think a minuteman because he had exactly that weird point value left over. 2 Scytheans and 1 Angel shut 1 side down and took maybe half of the other side. 3 beasts and 12 pts of fury. It was the roughest matchup I've played in a loong time. At 50 points I can start to handle it better. But my god @ 35 with Arcane shield that thing is disgusting if you can't strip the shield.

    So... it took 2 turns to kill the S'wall? Is that really out of balance? The wall and junior were ~50% of his list, after all.
    The major problem is it took 3 beasts to get Stormwall that low, without killing it (average rolls). The next turn it got 4 focus (bonded) and pulped (positive charge) those 3 already wounded beasts (shot at during the approach by stormwall's high powered guns). The point trade was a huge swing. I understand it should take a serious investment to kill a Stormwall. But when you don't manage to kill it whatever it's in contact with is going to explode.

    But you, pig, are a lucky one. Tell us what we wish to know, and you may yet keep your bacon.
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  • Dino-czarDino-czar Registered User
    Caenem wrote: »
    The major problem is it took 3 beasts to get Stormwall that low, without killing it (average rolls). The next turn it got 4 focus (bonded) and pulped (positive charge) those 3 already wounded beasts (shot at during the approach by stormwall's high powered guns). The point trade was a huge swing. I understand it should take a serious investment to kill a Stormwall. But when you don't manage to kill it whatever it's in contact with is going to explode.

    I don't care to read a battle report, so I'll just assume (with your permission) that there is a valid reason that respawn and feat weren't available to buy another turn of wailing away.

    With that assumption in place, isn't it possible you just got out played? I mean, yes you clearly lost the major confrontation of the game, but you also had the tools to win it.

  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Dr. Doctor Oakland, CARegistered User regular
    I kind of also want to say, why did you feel you needed to kill Stormwall? I mean, yeah, it's a natural thing, I understand. It's big, you go kill the big thing. But Legion especially should be able to kind of go around it, kill the caster/support. Especially Saeryn and her feat - could the angel have just flown over it? A bit unfortunate about the Scytheans, but still - kill the Jr and it becomes much easier.

  • SJSJ Registered User regular
    If he's got his toe in a zone, you might just have to.

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    kaorti wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    It would be rather interesting if they sold "Theme Packs" that got you a Tier 4 army for a particular warcaster/lock.

    It's a good thing they don't. Theme lists are a bad way to learn the game. Only a few are any good, and all of them require you to give up important tools.

    Besides, there are way too many casters for them to practically keep them in stock.

    Edit: Hey @admanb @SJ, what makes a 50pt eStryker list work?

    I run similar to SJ, except I usually trade utility for more mans. I would drop Eiryss and the Lancer from that list for more Stormguard/Stormblades. I enjoy taking a heavily camped Stryker and jamming him up the center of the board. Most people won't even try to touch him and he'll just be a big problem.

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  • SJSJ Registered User regular
    Yeah, I've made lists like that but never actually put them on the table. I'll be honest though there are plenty of times that I just dropped Eiryss because she isn't really that necessary for eStryker imo.

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Yeah. I mean she can help (if you're facing IF Winterguard she's damn near your only way to deal with it) but you don't need her threat of focus removal so you don't really need her. Especially in the age of character restrictions any of your other lists are going to want her more than eStryker does.

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  • CaenemCaenem Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Dino-czar wrote: »
    Caenem wrote: »
    The major problem is it took 3 beasts to get Stormwall that low, without killing it (average rolls). The next turn it got 4 focus (bonded) and pulped (positive charge) those 3 already wounded beasts (shot at during the approach by stormwall's high powered guns). The point trade was a huge swing. I understand it should take a serious investment to kill a Stormwall. But when you don't manage to kill it whatever it's in contact with is going to explode.

    I don't care to read a battle report, so I'll just assume (with your permission) that there is a valid reason that respawn and feat weren't available to buy another turn of wailing away.

    With that assumption in place, isn't it possible you just got out played? I mean, yes you clearly lost the major confrontation of the game, but you also had the tools to win it.
    Without writing a battle report (as I don't care to write one either):
    The turn before engaging I debated about feating for quite some time. It was either feat while approaching the stormwall to blunt the storm knights and stryker from meleeing the beasts (they were within charge range to the side of stormwall, or in stryker's case behind it) or feat on the engage and hope I had enough beasts left to do the feat>fly over trick. Ultimately I went the safer route and feated on the approach. After the game my opponent agreed it was probably safer the way I did it. Respawn was in play but a positive charged minuteman and a group of those knights with their weapon attachment and ua do silly stuff, so that beast went down anyway. The entire game was very much about trades. I could have blight'd the storms and killed a bunch of em, but that would mean 1 beast doing nothing to stormwall and also not putting any pressure on Stryker (as he was behind the colossal). Part of the problem I think is Saeryn. I don't see her matching up that well against Colossals. She does make her beasts invulnerable to melee, but all the colossals have excellent high-ish pow guns. This is all @ the 35 point level. There are tools like the Black Frost Shard but 5 points for that squad means 1 of my 4 beasts has it's point value cut in half. Leaving me with options like a Raek. It also leaves me with a problem of instead of 4 Large beasts I would now only have 3, which starts to swing the point trade back in Stormwall's favor.

    This will of course, all probably be moot once each faction has access to their own Gargossal or whatever they'll collectively be called. But right now @ 35 points a Stormwall presses very heavily on the balance of the game. It doesn't break it, but that pressure is there and it would imo be very silly for someone to argue against it with the armor it can bring to a fight. The wall of text on it's cards do inject life back into Cygnar, which was needed. But that journeyman caster with Arcane Shield takes it over the top.

    Caenem on
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  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Saeryn is iffy against Cygnar in general since so much of what we bring can hit you even when you've feated. Her lack of a damage buff is also an issue if we bring a Centurion or Arcane Shield.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Registered User regular
    If you're worried about guns, consider the Sorc&Hellion. Saeryn's Feat+Sorc&Hellion's No-Ranged spell seriously limit enemy options, and Sorc&Hellion works well with a Saeryn flying armada strat.

    freefallagent.jpg
  • CaenemCaenem Registered User regular
    admanb wrote: »
    Saeryn is iffy against Cygnar in general since so much of what we bring can hit you even when you've feated. Her lack of a damage buff is also an issue if we bring a Centurion or Arcane Shield.

    Completely true. But normally a shielded target will have at least half the hps, making it an investment to kill that target but still leaving that possibility open.

    But you, pig, are a lucky one. Tell us what we wish to know, and you may yet keep your bacon.
    Nemlock for online gaming
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