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It's fun, I like it. But I'm not about to rob anyone so i can afford it. Or even pay for it with my hard earned cash.
And Iroh, never put coke and heroin the same category. Worlds apart in addictiveness and effect.
Yet as addictive as cigarettes are, its rare for people to hold up stores for them, but it does happen.
Also, I think the number of addicts might actually go down, because there wouldnt be the stigma of shame and fear of being imprisoned when they seek rehab, it would be similar to when a smoker goes to the doctor for some prescription or the drugstore for the patch/nicorette.
And its been mentioned numerous times, the amount of violence committed by addicts is much less than the amount committed by the dealers and the criminal organizations (gangs) that are protecting their sources, dealers, turf, and customer monopoly.
With the legalization you would also see a drop in prostitution, which is a very large part of the drug scene.
Even coke does not compare in the slightest to crack. And meth is just god-awful addictive.
I am going to say this once and once only:
The bar representing amphetamine IS NOT CRYSTAL METH. I will stab the first person who mentions crystal meth while reffering to this graph.
If anyone is about to say, "but drug X is worse than drug Y because of [insert narrowly defined metric for harm]" then don't bother. The reason the drugs are rated in an order that you might not suspect is that they were ranked on costs to healthcare, aqusitional crime, addictiveness and a bunch of other areas. I'll try to find the table that gives all the categories.
It hasn't actually been used to change the A/B/C classifications we have at the moment.
edit The categories are on page 42 of this pdf.
http://www.tdpf.org.uk/Drug%20classification.pdf
One of my roomies in my apartment this summer is from Minnesota, and his county produces the most meth in the country. Then they apparently sell it to the neighboring counties, one of which has a high school where 50% of students have tried/use it.
Shit is fucking up rural America so bad.
They're not that prevalent over here so they weren't looked at in the study. If they were, then they would have scored pretty badly.
Unfortunately, in the other thread, the anti-drug crowd seemed to think that fact invalidated the entire ranking.
but the study didn't have a need for the subjects that people used to pick it apart?
Drunks Against Mad Mothers
Also fuck coke. My dad was into it when he conceived my brother, and he has problems I don't want to get into now. Not only that, but he stole from my mom repeatedly, and even sold cars she had to fund his habit. Pathetic piece of shit now grinds pills to sniff.
The ranking it was not supposed to be an argument for legalisation and it in no way claims to be complete. It was designed to be a starting point for re-examining the current A/B/C classifications that are used in the UK.
The fact that those two substances weren't included doesn't make it worthless for discussing legalisation/reclassification. It was designed as a starting point for discussion and if it was expanded to include crack and crystal meth then they would no doubt score worse than heroin as gekhan suggested.
It's also worth noting the difference in the aims of drug policy between different countries. That pdf I linked gives the following examples on a comparison table on page 22:
UK - To reduce supply, prevent uptake, reduce crime and increase treatment uptake
US - To cut off supply of drugs to users
Netherlands - To reduce harm to individuals and society
Sweden - To create a drug free state
Personally I think the Netherlands have got the right idea. It's also interesting to note that, while having the lowest street prices for cocaine and amphetamine, they actually have lower rates of hard drug use.
I don't know that they would, and neither do you, nor do you have any of the raw data used to generate that table. What you have there is an empty statistic built from a subjective evaluation of "overall harm" (which includes legal ramifications) that you've convinced yourself is important. Failing to talk about crack and meth is irrelevant since the data-collection methods make the table worthless to begin with.
Drunks Against Mad Mothers
There's been next to no study of 'consumer habits', because drugs are so heavily regulated that no one is making a true choice. So, I guess my point is, in a totally prohibition-free environment (where coke and weed are just as cheap as beer), what are most people going to choose and how often? I am of the opinion that meth and crack are really just byproducts of prohibition: cheap methods of getting high that can be home produced.
There's no moonshine anymore, because you can't really undercut beer in terms of price. If pot and speed were the same way, would *anyone* ever smoke meth or crack? I have my suspicions, but it would be interesting to see some real numbers.
If we essentially did away with prescriptions and drug enforcement today, I think we'd see a *huge* drop-off in meth use, especially after prices settled out.
Pokemans D/P: 1289 4685 0522
Come across khat? Or the fact it isn't controlled?
Generally, it's uncontrolled because it's use has been sufficiently low-profile to escape the attention of the authorities, it's only mildly addictive (I've heard it compared to tobacco) and it's pretty exclusively limited to a particular ethnic group (Somalians, I think).
EDIT: Yemeni as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khat#United_Kingdom
I know it's popped up a few times up here (as in Glasgow). I think we got a load of Somalian refugees at some point.
Why is it that it took a constitutional amendment to make alcohol illegal, but only a little bit of non-scientifically informed legislation with racist motivations to outlaw marijuana, and later everything else? I've never seen a decent argument as for how the US Government has these powers.
In my opinion, if you're psychotically against all forms of intoxication (except alcohol and cigarettes because they're good for you because they're legal because the government said so) chances are really quite good that you:
A) Had a friend of a friend who couldn't handle his shit and became a junkie/threw himself off a building while high on something. Anecdotal evidence shall forever rule your life henceforth.
or
B) Haven't fucking tried any of the substances you're so keen on keeping irrationally outlawed.
Smoke a joint and tell me with a straight face that it's more dangerous than a couple of beers. Take a responsible mushroom trip with supportive, loving friends and tell me it's a crime against humanity. If I can buy a bottle of 180proof hard liquor and drink myself into a dangerous alcoholic fugue I should at least be able to grow a goddamn pot plant without going to jail for an absurd manditory minimum sentence.
not at all. You can vomit, but thats just mild food poisoning.
It actually depends. You can get questionable mushrooms. Plus some people just react badly to them.
From what I've experienced, if you eat them and feel really anxious and shitty and feel like you are going to puke... just go with it. don't fight any feelings you have.
I remember one time I bought these mushrooms off some hippy dude and hes like "just so you know, these mushrooms come with a warning". I'm thinking, yeah, whatever, everyone says shit like that to make them seem good. Sure enough I did them, and I was like "yeah I see what he was talking about".
My one friend had a bad reaction to them, like he turned really pale/almost green and just puked them up. Next time we did the same mushrooms, me and him smoked a joint well after the mushies kicked in. I was fine, I like smoking pot with mushrooms, but he went nuts. Like he wanted me to take him to the hospital.
The next day he talked to me, he said he felt like his mind was fighting itself. I guess its kinda like a computer program going into an infinite loop. You try to use logic and reason to get yourself out of what the mushrooms are doing to you, but at the same time you cannot comprehend logic and reason because the mushrooms are fucking your mind.
Overall however I would say that mushrooms are not dangerous for you.
Now wildly varying potency can definitely be an issue. One time you take an 1/8th and you just feel mildly high and a little dreamy. The next time, you take the same amount and you're inhabiting another universe of geometric hallucinations and disembodied voices...
Psilosibin(sp) is pretty much poison, it's just that one of the other side effects happen to make you hallucinate. Also certain shrooms resemble the more deadly variety of fungi. Don't just think you can go to a field and eyeball what's growing in a cow patty. You might not die, but you could get sick enough to have to go to the hospital and have your stomach pumped. Food poisoning sucks nuts. I'm due for another go around, I'll wait until I can find a bunch of friends with some time off.
If faith is just a silent tribute, mine is just a desperate act.
Word to the wise: if you are stressed out at all, depressed, or just "down", do not take mushrooms.
I've done them a lot of times... more times than I can count. The vast majority have been good times but the past... 3? have been kinda shitty. I will probably do them again but only if I am absolutely sure I want to do them.
Although the past year has been kinda shitty for me, mentally and emotionally (possibly explaining why I haven't had good times with the mushies in the last year). Things are starting to pick up for me, and the mushrooms trips I'll have if I end up doing them will reflect that.
Of course, I've spent about 1/4 of all my experiences babysitting people who can't handle it, so that might have something to do with it.
Yeah, I was talking about magic mushrooms specifically. I'm not about to go picking random mushrooms out of the forest or anything.
I had just heard things like "it's bad to do it more than once a month or it'll fuck up your brain chemistry" and crap like that and was wondering if there was actually anything to it.
I had a great time for the most part. I felt like I understood (just about) everything in the universe. My ex was one of the people at the house I was at and just about the only thing I said to her was "Tasha, this will never happen again" before giving her a hug. Mostly I sat outside in a chair facing away from everything because I liked the darkness and the dudes inside were drunk and fucking loud. I thought a lot of weird things and a lot of very stereotypical fucked-up tripping hippie stoner things. Towards the end as the body high was wearing off I went through a lot of flip-flopping between happy and bitterly depressed, mostly because I realized that my rather nihilistic opinions about the world were correct.
I was getting tired and eventually left the house... and the second I walked out the door I threw out my arms and took a deep breath and felt very very alive, and totally awake. No more body high though, so I thought I had just gotten my second wind or something... I drove home (poorly), and laid in bed for two hours staring at my thumb, which seemed to be changing size. I also kept trying to feel my heart beat but couldn't, and wondered if I had fucked my mind or body or something up permanently since I didn't feel like I was high anymore.... so I just laid there, very pissed off for a couple of hours, and eventually fell asleep.
I want to do mushrooms again, but I want everyone around me to be on them this time.
of course, the day me and my friend split the single serving of the strongest ones, we didn't want to leave the room all day... but it still was amazing.
when we did finally leave, he blacked out on a tram. 3 seconds of absolute terror for me that is now one of my funniest memories (because everything turned out fine).
edit - I'm the same as al recently with shrooms and acid. last few times I did them I had fun while I was with my friends, but when the night was over I just was very very depressed. I know I can get past it because I know exactly what was bugging me, but the fact is there that you aren't entirely in control of your thoughts.
edit2 - definitely the right idea fallout. best time I ever had, I'm watching my uncles house and me and 7 of my friends had an 8th each. and when I got there my cousin (the uncles son, didn't know he'd be there) and three of his friends had gotten as well for themselves. it was fucking amazing. I rarely get to the really trippy thoughts because I'm much more of a talker, but I had so much fucking fun I couldn't believe it. we talked about x-men for hours.
This is a very good plan.
I hate being around people who aren't on mushrooms when I am on them. They don't understand you, you don't understand them, and they just piss you off. The worst are the ones who try to "trip you out" and treat you like you are an imbecile.
Its wierd being with other people who are on mushrooms... its like there is a body language or some kind of a vibe that you are all getting. You don't even need to say anything, but you are all thinking the same thing. Also, what you say to each other, while it may be gibberish, actually makes sense.
I also get what you are saying about understanding (or at least feeling like you do) the world, the universe, everything. Those experiences are some of the most memorable I have.
Ditto. A guy who was basically my step-dad had a bad drug problem, heroin, coke, whatever he could get really. Sold his car, tried to sell my mom's engagement ring for drugs, cleaned out the family business, etc. Affected my life greatly, couldn't go to college because of it. So yeah, coke and heroin, terrible shit.
If you're close to someone with a bad drug problem, it will come to affect you one way or another if you don't do anything. I'm sounding like an after school special, I'm sorry, I just don't share a nonchalant attitude on the subject.
Yeah coke is a very addictive substance. Doesn't mean you will have problems with it if you try it, but the potential is there.
This goes for pretty much any psychedelic drug and besides the 'stressed out' part, I'd say any drug at all . If you're in a good head space it makes a big difference. Any high can take a bad turn if your mind starts thinking about things you don't want to.
The only thing Ive heard about that is from Marc Emery (who i consider a moron) who kept saying that it was completely safe because it is a naturally occuring brain chemical.
I dont think I'll do it, same way as I will never do acid.
Its like it causes you to have an epiphany.
The other side of this is that your escapes may be keeping you from getting pissed off enough to change your situation (I do not know your situation at all).
If I was a drinker, I would probably just drink my cares away.
As I am not, I have channeled my ceaseless rage into vast self-improvement.
(I still have no idea about your situation)
This, I think, is where a lot of the "Drugs make you lazy" stuff comes from.
Oh, and combine a small dose of shrooms with some good indica and you're in for a great time.
I'm at the tail end of working for two years in order to save up a good chunk of money for university. I'm enrolled at Simon Fraser University and I start my BSc in September. The last two years would have been a lot less enjoyable if it weren't for drugs. Although I suppose I would have eventually gotten fed up enough to go find a better job.
I'd just argue that you're with the wrong people.