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I don't want to be Ducky! (Friendship/Relationship)
Kyougu
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I have feelings for a friend.
A friend who has a bf.
Awesome right? I met her a couple of months ago and since then we clicked incredibly well. We have tons of stuff in common and seem to enjoy spending time with one another. She had a bf when I met her, so I went in wanting only a platonic relationship, something that's become harder as things go on.
This isn't helped by the fact that I become the "replacement bf". Basically do things with her that her bf doesn't want to do (which we both enjoy doing), or if she's having a bad day she'll come to me. Which is naturally part of being what a friend is about, but lately the things she been coming about is to complain about her current relationship. About how unhappy she is, or what thing her bf did this time that upset her. Then in the same convo she'll tell me how amazing I am. It just drives me crazy. Sometimes I want to just tell her to dump the guy but I don't.
I'm cognisant enough this isn't healthy, but I have no idea what to do about it. For the record I already do what I think most people are going to recommend. I get out plenty and meet a lot of new people (I run a Meetup) and I'm pretty social person with plenty of other male and female friends. Truth be told I get the feeling that I'm looking at as the non sexual entity by a lot of females around me, and generally I don't mind and I'm not bothered by this. There's just something about this particular friend that I can't get over.
I guess the obvious solution would be to withdraw for a while till I get this over right? I have no idea how I would do that without her noticing something was odd, which would just bring up this whole mess to the forefront.
A friend who has a bf.
Awesome right? I met her a couple of months ago and since then we clicked incredibly well. We have tons of stuff in common and seem to enjoy spending time with one another. She had a bf when I met her, so I went in wanting only a platonic relationship, something that's become harder as things go on.
This isn't helped by the fact that I become the "replacement bf". Basically do things with her that her bf doesn't want to do (which we both enjoy doing), or if she's having a bad day she'll come to me. Which is naturally part of being what a friend is about, but lately the things she been coming about is to complain about her current relationship. About how unhappy she is, or what thing her bf did this time that upset her. Then in the same convo she'll tell me how amazing I am. It just drives me crazy. Sometimes I want to just tell her to dump the guy but I don't.
I'm cognisant enough this isn't healthy, but I have no idea what to do about it. For the record I already do what I think most people are going to recommend. I get out plenty and meet a lot of new people (I run a Meetup) and I'm pretty social person with plenty of other male and female friends. Truth be told I get the feeling that I'm looking at as the non sexual entity by a lot of females around me, and generally I don't mind and I'm not bothered by this. There's just something about this particular friend that I can't get over.
I guess the obvious solution would be to withdraw for a while till I get this over right? I have no idea how I would do that without her noticing something was odd, which would just bring up this whole mess to the forefront.
Kyougu on
Posts
If she wants more, congratulations. Insist she break up with her boyfriend and enjoy your new relationship honestly.
If she doesn't, probably tone done the situations allowing yourself to be in this position by avoiding being alone. Once she knows how you feel she probably will be more respectful of your feelings or she will be someone to avoid.
In all likelyhood she is either A) testing the waters to see if you actually like her that way or B) just not realizing she is coming off as flirtatious. Just be honest about it and things will clear up one way or another in no time.
— Robert Heinlein
This is a lot of silly, pessimistic projection.
While this is certainly possible, acting as if this is the case before talking with her is just a goose thing to do especially as the four paragraphs listed above are far from enough information to speak in this degree of absolutes. Almost all of your suspicious are assuming presumptive malice to some level.
Just talk with the girl. If things work out, great. If not you've spared yourself probable years of sexual tension and torment. Either way everyone in the situation is better off.
— Robert Heinlein
I don't think Herald is saying that the girl is a bad person for putting the OP in this type of situation, I just also think it seems like the most realistic option. Maybe it does happen, but I can't imagine that a lot of girls's tactics when it comes to flirting is just talking about how bad their current boyfriend's are. If she wanted something, I would think she would say it.
The OP knows what he needs to do- He needs to tell the girl exactly what he's saying here. It might suck, or it might not, but that's one of three options. The other two consist of just continuing along and hoping the feelings go away, or just cutting her off completely and not telling her why. Both that aren't fair to the OP or the girl.
I'd explain to her how, as a single guy, it's difficult / not appropriate to have conversations with women where they a) tell you how amazing you are while b) complaining about their boyfriend.
She won't stop being friends with you just because she can't complain to you about her boyfriend - as others have pointed out, that's what her girlfriends are for.
It sucks, but it's also the only way to know what to do next. Given that you like the girl and want her, the only option is to ask her what she wants. Be clear that there is no pressure and there will be no hard feelings, but just say that you just need to know what you're dealing with so you can deal with it.
Define your relationship with her, make sure you communicate to her about what it is she wants. Does she want it to stay platonic or not, etc.
Edit: Ducky found another girl. Maybe you should follow that path? It's mostly just a matter of you not being able to have what you want.
Anyone who jumps ship like that is an incredibly poor communicator that most likely didn't want the relationship but failed to communicate it to their partner or were consciously or unconsciously waiting for something better. This is not healthy, and it would only be a matter of time (in my opinion and experience) before you were on the receiving end of this were you to jump into a relationship with them.
I won't lie - she probably has feelings for you - and you could totally pursue a relationship, but I would talk to her about ending it with her current boyfriend if she is so unhappy.
Then:
A. If she reciprocates and you both want to pursue a relationship, then she needs to make a clean break with her boyfriend before dating you. If you're beyond anything but mere acquaintances with her boyfriend, then you may want to have your own serious conversation with him as well.
B. If she reciprocates but is unsure of how she wants to continue, make your perspective clear and then back off until she makes a decision one way or the other.
C. If she reciprocates but still wants to stay with her boyfriend, then walk away. You would be doing both of you a disservice to stick around once you have made your feelings clear to each other.
D. If she doesn't reciprocate, then make an honest self-assessment and either cut off communication or more clearly define the boundaries of your relationship. Boundaries meaning a change in how you interact and what you do together, not just a single conversation and a continuation of how things have currently been going. Frankly, you will need to spend a lot less time with this girl in much more platonic situations if you intend on staying friends.
D is going to be the most likely outcome, and in that case I would recommend you just cut your losses and walk away, even if only temporarily. Yes, you can certainly be friends, but in this case that will require a lot of work and some serious emotional management. Most people are not very good at that, particularly when it comes to romance, so honesty is the better part of valor here. You don't need to fall on your sword and sacrifice your own emotional health just to "be the good guy" and try to stay friends. The mature thing to do would be to take a step back and put yourself in a better place before trying to maintain a friendship. If anything, that's the only way you could save it in the long term. Plus, it allows you the time and space to make yourself available to someone else should the opportunity arise.
Someone of the opposite sex, someone who considers you a good friend, telling you that you're "amazing" doesn't mean much of anything. It means they think you're a great person. Sure, MAYBE it means something else, but I wouldn't put money on it.
If this were a guy friend confiding in you and telling you the same things would you think he was interested in you?
People in perfectly happy relationships do this all the time. She could be obscenely happy the rest of the time but you don't see that.
At most, if you are tired of listening to her complain, is tell her that she has been complaining a lot lately and if she is actually unhappy, maybe she should think about doing something about it.
Satans..... hints..... I'm a mo bro!
I think there's a lot of things that won't get passed via these forums. I think body language and the subject matter of these venting sessions are critically important to determining the viability of a relationship with this girl. If she's flattering him regularly, beyond just saying that he's amazing, while rarely communicating the benefits or things she enjoys about her current relationship, I would wager that there is good chance that she would consider a relationship with him.
And I've been on the receiving end of the same type of behavior but from guys, and yes, there was the assumption that they were interested in a casual fling, which merely got confirmed once they asked for my number.
Again - there's a lot that text on these forums won't reveal - it's difficult to evaluate those things as advice givers, so the OP is alone in interpreting them.
Yeah, this is pretty par for course. Not every relationship (or any really) is sunshine and puppy dogs all the time. It's perfectly healthy and normal for people to complain about their significant others.
Pretty much this.
I wouldn't even tell her how you feel. She has a boyfriend, deal with your feelings for her on your own. Like Esh and Blake have said, she could be perfectly happy but just having a good moan about her boyfriend. Its normal.
Everyone gripes about their significant other. It is normal. It is healthy. It does not mean she is secretly asking for you to rescue her.
And if she did leave him for you, could you really ever trust her to not just bail on you? That isn't someone you want to be with.
If you can't be friends with her that is completely understandable. It happens sometimes. Just put some distance between yourself and her and meet some other people. Their are soooo many people in the world, and many of them are not only really awesome, but they are going to think you are awesome too.
Don't waste time pursuing someone else' girlfriend. You are better than that.
El Dorado: Never forget and The Defense of Minas Tirith, Capital of India
You like this girl. You should tell her, and also tell her that because of those feelings your relationship needs to change. That doesn't mean cut her off and never talk with her again, nor does it mean you automatically start sexing it up behind boyfriend's back. All it means is that both parties know where each other stands, without the angst and drama of sexual tension or the future regrets for never having said anything.
Maybe the end result is you both agree to back off for the foreseeable future, and that's a perfectly valid way to deal with this situation after clearing the air about it. Maybe she likes you also and will start dating you instead of the boyfriend, which is also perfectly valid assuming she is also honest with the boyfriend and breaks up with him. Relationships are complicated things that shouldn't be reduced to the sheer degree of cynicism and mistrust a lot of folks here seem to be harping on.
Just be honest and open about it, and then go from there in a way that is fair to all parties involved. It's not hard.
— Robert Heinlein
I know it is awkward and puts the person into a terrible position, but, really, the situation is better. Getting another girlfriend isn't going to abscond the feelings one has for another person. Just because I have a fiancee doesn't mean I don't still deeply care for people I deeply cared for before.
That shit is crazy.
Except his motivation is not "I need this to help me get over her." it's "Man, I sure hope me telling her gets her to dump her boyfriend and go out with me!".
That's why I advocated not saying anything to her, acting like an adult, and moving along.
This is why you just don't "ignore it and move on" unless move on means "cut this person out of your life." Most likely because, as I said, getting a girlfriend and doing the single scene at the local hipster dubstep club doesn't abscond one of their current feelings for a person.
I'm perfectly capable of letting feelings fade away. I imagine I'm not a precious snowflake in this regard either. Time passes, things change.
Also, was that some sort of weird jab at me?
And you are probably a weird snowflake.
I'm 35. When I'm not tending bar or at university, I'm at home with my cats watching movies or playing video games. One of the cooks at my work listens to dubsteb in the kitchen and I constantly have to tell him to turn it down because it's so piercing and terrible and I can hear it all the way at the bar.
/Get off my lawn.
Anyhoo, OP, if your motivation is EXACTLY the opposite of what I said, then sure, tell her if you really think it's going to help you. Like, really think. Otherwise, just give it some time and I guarantee it that you'll get over her. It's not the end of the world and she's not your soulmate. You're going to be just as despondent if she rejects you then as if she never knew.
And what happens if the girl is actually not in love with her boyfriend and simply lacks the courage to dump him for the OP? People aren't saints, and this happens a lot. The mentality assumes someone like this is some sort of malignant betrayer assumes that people have their shit together and are inherently vile. This is simply not the case. Most (nearly all) people are scared, doubtful, and simply unable to go after their desires without some sort of reciprocal hint. If she is not satisfied with her boyfriend to the point of flirting with other folk for that reason (assuming it is deliberate and not a misunderstanding), then the OP is doing no favors or long term ill by clearing his mind in this situation anyhow as there are problems already there not being addressed.
Is that the case here? In all likelihood no. But it certainly could be, and not disclosing feelings could end up in missing either a great relationship or a potentially terrible one he could learn from and move on with. Walking away in this fashion is cowardly, and self destructive in the long term. The adult thing to do, since we are using that word and assuming it means wisdom/mitigating drama, would be just to clear the air and move on based upon how things settle.
Yes, the likely for short term drama and angst is substantially higher, but after a week when things settle everyone is better off rather than one or more parties suffering from future angst, tension, or regrets.
— Robert Heinlein
Question for you... when you are around female friends, do you feel that you are 100% completely yourself, or are you someone you think they want you to be? If you're finding yourself as the surrogate boyfriend, it's likely that you are doing too much to please other people. The fact is, no one wants to be in a relationship with a people-pleaser. I say this as a people-pleaser currently trying to get over it.
As far as your current situation goes, I tend to side with Esh, only because it looks like there is a lot more going on here then just you being attracted to someone in a relationship. If you are the go-to stand in, sexless boyfriend surrogate for ANY of your female friends, let alone a majority of them, then you have some other shit that needs to be worked on before you're even ready for a relationship.
— Robert Heinlein
I'm willing to guess the OP is dropping LOTS of hints already.
Not putting someone in an uncomfortable situation isn't cowardly, it's respectful. The world doesn't revolve around the OP, and putting his emotions first and foremost above hers is pretty goosey. Not every approach has to be like a bull in a china shop.
I'm getting this intense feeling of deja vu from this thread and the umpteen million other threads that have been an exact copy where everyone tells the OP to "Let her know how you feel!" and then we never hear back because he went down in flames after telling her.
Don't hound on them and if she says she's not interested, move on at this point. There is never anything wrong about talking about it.
This is how adults deal with their emotions and feelings towards one another, yes. Granted I'm not an old man like Esh, but, ignoring the feelings seems silly if you wish to continue a relationship on a lower level than fuckmates.
*shrug* It's worked for me through my long and advanced years. YMMV and also IANAL.
This is the important part here. Saying "Hey I like you, is that something mutual or do we need to rework this relationship a bit" is a good idea. Saying "Hey I like you and nothing will change that so go out with me or I'll start cutting myself" is obviously a bad idea.
I actually met my wife of ten years in a similar situation. Her and her boyfriend were nearly about to break up when we met, and she was waiting for the opportunity to do so face to face like a decent human being. If I had "just walked away" I never would have started the best thing to happen in my life. Before that, I was on both sides of these ambiguous relationship situations several times. I'm still friends, without sexual tension, with several of the people whom I turned down and whom turned me down because we talked about how we felt or didn't feel and moved on from there. Sometimes it hurt, a lot (on both sides). Some of the folk and I avoided each other for years, before becoming platonic friends later in life.
Whereas I have plenty friends that kept silent and still pine after people years later.
— Robert Heinlein
Right now I'm leaning towards either telling her (with all the aforementioned caveats) or putting some distance in the relationship on my end.
@Sentry Sorry, I guess I should clarify that I'm generally not the bf surrogate towards most of my female friends. We're usually on pretty equal terms. I just meant that I never feel as if I'm ever looked at as a dating prospect ever. This is also why I need to give this current situation more thought, sometimes I feel like I'm falling into the whole geek "She pays extra attention to me so she must like me!" thing.
Well yeah, don't lay out all your baggage like the end of a romantic comedy. But just saying that the current way you're hanging out isn't working is probably far more decent than just ignoring her and going away.
Edit: What I mean is, not hanging out with her without giving her the reason is a dick move. It's not either declaring your undying love or ignoring her totally. Just saying "hey, I'm developing some feelings for you so I think we shouldn't hang out like we do now." makes it clear that it is not a big deal and you just need some space.
I agree with everything. All guys despise "that guy", and can usually smell it way before she does. Now that you know have feelings for her, don't be "that guy".
She has a say in the relationship, too. If she wants to be friends with you, then she will probably need to adjust how she communicates and spends time with you. Strangely enough, most women I know are intimately familiar with these types of situations, and have developed their own ways of making sure that relationships stay within certain boundaries.