Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it,
follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given
their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!
[StarCraft 2] THIS THREAD IS OVER. POST IN THE NEW ONE PEOPLE!
Posts
Me too!
Remember all the sweeping changes that had to be made to fix the metagame?
Me neither!
*only partially tongue in cheek. Yes, some things were rightfully changed (original voids, 6rax reaper, blue flame hellions, etc), but in a lot of the times that "OPness" has ended there...hasn't been really any change to any of the races involved, people just figured out how to change styles in such a way to win.
So complaints of "well the only way to win is [X] because [Y] is OP" rings really, really fucking hollow to me, because it's been demonstrably untrue for SC2.
mionix (a swedish gaming peripheral company) are sponsoring naniwa in the short-term, with a view towards extension after iem cologne
thankfully mionix didn't read jaziek's posts beforehand, then nani would have no chance of esports $$$
You can't raise a point about the design of races and how they interact with each other without being shot down.
and then when blizzard goes and changes something "yeah it was obviously broken."
But you never raise points of design you disagree with. You always lead with some variation of "god, [x] race is completely, unbeatably, unacceptably OP, here's why."
Maybe you don't mean that, but man, tone down the hyperbole if that's the case, because you're impossible to take seriously. I've seen you complain about almost anything that can beat P.
in fact
this has happened many many times in threads past, mostly about the collosus cause seriously fuck that thing
just don't do it in a really dumb and angry 'this entire race is fucked all of the time always' kind of way
but man
major joining root
just
how does he keep getting into teams
some sort of countdown should probably be started to the disbanding of root with this news also
ipl show 'cartographer', going over a new map with the mapmaker and casting games on it
currently a remake of bloody ridge, a bw map
Infestors are not a well balanced unit. They don't have a downside. Zerg will automatically get them during the course of the game, because that's just how the zerg tech tree works, and they are good against everything. Fungal, in combination with basically any other zerg comp increases the overall effectiveness of the zerg army by a ridiculous amount, and infested terrans allow the zerg to trade energy for actual resources, and there's very little the opposing player can do about it.
A broodlord / infestor / corruptor composition is almost un-engageable. If the zerg takes time to adequately spread out his units into a decent formation before attacking, there is no way to deal with it, and you certainly can't attack into it.
Playing passively against a zerg is a bad idea. They will get so far ahead simply by virtue of being allowed to get their infrastructure up and economy going that they no longer have to worry about trading cost efficiently, and can simply throw units of their choosing at you until you lose.
Playing aggressively against zerg, by comparison, is incredibly risky. If you move out for an attack, you are instantly susceptible to a counter attack, and if you are caught out of position on the map then you can lose your whole army for free. Zerg is in a position where he can trade his low-cost mineral units for your high-cost gas units, and doing this gets him ahead.
There, I solved PvZ.
A collosus / archon / high templar /zealot composition is almost un-engageable. If the protoss takes time to adequately spread out his units into a decent formation before attacking, there is no way to deal with it, and you certainly can't attack into it.
Playing passively against a protoss is a bad idea. They will get so far ahead simply by virtue of being allowed to get their infrastructure up and economy going that they no longer have to worry about trading cost efficiently, and can simply throw units of their choosing at you until you lose.
Playing aggressively against protoss, by comparison, is incredibly risky. Iif you are caught out of position on the map then you can lose your whole army for free. Protoss is in a position where he can trade his low-cost mineral units for your everything, and doing this gets him ahead.
DotaBuff
Twitch
In addition to being very good, from what I've heard he'd be an ideal practice partner. He doesn't really innovate builds, but he executes builds precisely and with precise control. Having trouble with a certain build XvT? Have major do it over and over against you until you can hold it.
Not true.
Also not true.
True, to a degree, but microing against storm is not a matter of "oh, he landed one fungal and now you're fucked", plenty of possibility to mitigate damage.
Also not true, and when it comes to PvZ, the Protoss army is a hell of a lot more engageable than an established infestor/broodlord/corrupter army.
Not when it's a Zerg because they can power economy much faster with less risk.
This just doesn't apply.
every protoss gets them in tvp unless they win or die before it happens. it's not "how the tech tree works" in the same way but it is true. and they are good against everything T has.
you can't engage without good EMPs which can be mitigated with spreads and obs. you CAN lose your whole army for free if you're out of position, and the zealot reinforcements can decimate everything while you wait for your silly rax build times to complete.
Could be worse. Could be the battle.net forums... *shudder*
some shit is hard to deal with it. seed managed last night! he killed a zerg that had broods and sunkens and shit all over the place. I'm sure he's not the only one ever.
terrans who hate tvp (I know some!) keep getting told 'taeja taeja taeja' and you know what? people are right. so jaz, seed seed seed.
DotaBuff
Twitch
i think most of the balance problems in that matchup are kinda down to creep spread and the ridic. levels it can be at now, making creep recede faster/toning down the exponential rate that multiple creep tumours expand would prrroobably solve a lot of the early-mid problems for terran - creep spread as it is right now adds entire minutes to terran timings, meaning they can't really attack before z can get out enough units without being extremely risky
i dunno if changing queen range any more would change anything, zergs know how good queens are for defense now, and a 1-2 range decrease i don't think will change the standard 3-4 extra queen style
zvt lategame i have always felt is ok, unlike lategame pvz terran seems to have a varied set of tools (relatively) to deal with late-game zerg, also people tend to judge late-game matchups in a vacuum - what happened before is vital to how 'balanced' the lategame situations seem, and if t and z enter late-game on even footing i think both have a pretty good chance
basically
with like two tweaks
zvt would go from being the best matchup, to the bestest matchup
This is honestly a travesty and I hope Blizzard takes a good, long look at the terrible state of PvZ balance. If Protoss players are this much better, PvZ should be at least 60% in favour of the better players.
They won't of course, because Bli$$ard cares only about money after Activision took them over and because David Kim and Dustin Browder are literally braindead.
destructable rocks added to the 'd' and 'r' keys.
"Well I was going to install a hot tub in my house, but someone was in the way so I put it in their house"
I really wanted to play tonight but this optimization thing is taking fucking ages
Quote from a page back, just so everyone knows (and im sure is probably aware) this isn't a problem isolated to the pros, its everywhere, I had a guy down to 2 starships (whatever they are, terran spaceship things, the big ones) and he made me run all over the map with a HUGE swarm of zerglings to find his two anti-air towers and actually beat him, maybe he thought I would let him turtle his spaceships around the map and take out all my NINE hives, but erm, no, your dead, quit wasting my and your time, even though we are in bronze. and a shout out to @dhalphir, I win stuff now, sometimes.
great to hear
let me know if you want more time.
-High tech Protoss units are all super powerful with no drawback
-High tech Protoss units are too flimsy and hard to afford/tech to
That is ....uh the relationship that they are designed under.
The problem with Protoss is it was not so secretly designed for super noobs to play so all its pillar mechanics suck hard. Brood War protoss stabilized itself into higher tech by rewarding control with harresment units, sneakiness, or aggresion.
But SC2 Protoss stabilizes itself into higher tech with either executing retarded two base allns or threatening them enough in addition to shielding information to sneak out expansions.
Unfortunately Warp gate as low tier tech choice makes aggression completely non-granular, you are either fucking going all out or you are faking that to extend the game. Forcefield just accentuates this by turning battles into either yes/no situations instead of 'maybe just a little bit'.
if you look, it's an exact copy of jaziek's just with a few name changes
suppose to highlight the silliness of the arguments
except the difference is that jazieks post had elements of truth where yilias' did not
High templars are an example of how to do a caster unit right
They are weak, slow, expensive, their spells are not particularly versatile - feedback is great for fighting energy units and storm is great for aoe damage, and that's about it.
Infestors are not high templar.
They have no weaknesses. They are easily protected if you're not fucking retarded. They aren't particularly vulnerable to EMP, you typically can't get templars close enough to feedback them, fungal is brutal damage and stupidly easy to chain cast.
I don't know how anyone can disagree that infestors are too versatile.
First cast - full duration 4 seconds 100% snare
Second cast - full duration 4 seconds 50% snare
Third cast - half duration 50% snare
Fourth cast no snare at all only damage
Yeah I'm really confused as to how people missed this.
I'll chime in. This is without a doubt the stupidest thing I've read in the thread in a long time.
I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or serious, but that kind of thought process is the hallmark of the worst of TL balance whining.
Dhal may be going over the top a little, but infestors are far more versatile than all the other caster units in the game.
We don't even have neural any more to deal with that bullshit.