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Election 2012: DNC Week

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Posts

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    The Israel thing shouldn't even be an issue. Someone should post the op-ed talking about the support Obama has for Israel. Even Bibi says he is a good friend. The fact Fox pointed it out and we are still talking about instead of the speeches shows the tactic of distraction worked.

    The dems aren't abandoning Israel. Or embassy is in Tel Aviv like everyone else's for a reason. We know damn well that moving it to Jerusalem would do nothing but make the situation worse. Madeline Albright on MSNBC had it right, the US supports the 2 state solution but we have always officially back Jerusalem as the capital in our rhetoric though we know damn well it is a sticking point that is more a giant road block than a speed bump. This is really just an issue to make the news and us forget that so far the Dems really have had a good convention with excellent speakers. And instead of talking about the women's rights speeches, the current speaker who is undocumented and the awesome speech by Michelle last night.

    Quit playing the distraction game folks.

    u7stthr17eud.png
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »

    The only thing I'm concerned about was the number of boos the addition of the Jerusalem point got. Both parties have always supported Israel, and it honestly makes me uncomfortable to see the Dems seemingly backing away from supporting it. Israel is and since it's founding has been a great ally of the US, and I don't think we should back off from that stance one bit.

    I find the Israeli set up a bit frustrating. They've been a good ally in most causes, they've also caused us some problems (see spying). I agree that no one should have to put up with the shit that Iran and Hezbollah shovse their way. On the other hand, I think they could do much more to remedy the issues with the Palestinians peacefully, but they opt to continue playing hardball despite it making things take much longer than it should.

    I'm also annoyed by the fact that we have a lobbyist group that is more pro-Israel than many actual Israelis and that there seems to be this notion that US interests should always take a backseat to Israel interests in the region, even if those interests seem to be more harmful to the general good than the US interests. It just rubs me the wrong way because they are a foreign country.

    I don't blame Israel for defending its borders from hostile neighbors or defending its citizens from terrorist attacks. If anyone is to blame for the the situation it is the UN for setting the state up the way they did and the Palestinians for refusing to negotiate as part of that process.

    But that is all besides the point. When did it become cool for liberals to hate Israel, and why Israel specifically, when there are so many other countries that do so much worse to their own citizens than Israel has done to the Palestinians? Being pro-Israel has never even been a question for the democrats as far as I am aware, and we should recognize Jerusalem as the capital because it IS the capital.

    Most of the other countries that are horrible to their citizens don't have sitting US politicians pledging to put their interests before Americas. Also as I said we give them millions on millions in foreign aid.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Xobyte wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    At least the RNC had no issue with their platform or anything, so this is entirely a DNC thing that we should all be ashamed of.

    Poe's law here, I can't tell if this is sarcasm/irony or not. The whole Ron Paul thing and change in delegates was kind of a thing. This was a paraphrased quote from a Republican delegate at the RNC, when Romney changed the rules.

    "They are infringing on our rights."

    Anyhow, on the the "God" thing. On a personal level, I don't mind God, because I like the lessons that Jesus teaches, I think they are great teachings. But I am a big HUGE fucking fan of separation of church and state. Also, there are more than Christians that are on the Democrats side. Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Native-Americans, Buddists, ect that find a place in the big tent on the DNC. So I kinda feel like they were just disenfranchised.

    On the other hand, Christians are a rather large demographic, so strategically, I'm not sure what is the better move.

    Still a tad disappointed.

    I've got to say, as a Buddhist, I don't really give a shit.

    All good my friend.

    I liked seeing the nun. It's nice to finally see a person who identifies as Christian actually stating some of the things that Christians should believe and practice. Things Jesus himself said, like helping the poor and the weak, and taking care of your neighbor.

    I kinda find that the Democrats are the God of the New Testament (forgiveness, feed the poor, cure the sick, self sacrafice) and the Republicans are the God of the Old Testament (fire and brimstone, plagues, Sodom and Gomorrah, wrath to punish sin).

    steam_sig.png

    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Mill wrote: »

    The only thing I'm concerned about was the number of boos the addition of the Jerusalem point got. Both parties have always supported Israel, and it honestly makes me uncomfortable to see the Dems seemingly backing away from supporting it. Israel is and since it's founding has been a great ally of the US, and I don't think we should back off from that stance one bit.

    I find the Israeli set up a bit frustrating. They've been a good ally in most causes, they've also caused us some problems (see spying). I agree that no one should have to put up with the shit that Iran and Hezbollah shovse their way. On the other hand, I think they could do much more to remedy the issues with the Palestinians peacefully, but they opt to continue playing hardball despite it making things take much longer than it should.

    I'm also annoyed by the fact that we have a lobbyist group that is more pro-Israel than many actual Israelis and that there seems to be this notion that US interests should always take a backseat to Israel interests in the region, even if those interests seem to be more harmful to the general good than the US interests. It just rubs me the wrong way because they are a foreign country.

    I don't blame Israel for defending its borders from hostile neighbors or defending its citizens from terrorist attacks. If anyone is to blame for the the situation it is the UN for setting the state up the way they did and the Palestinians for refusing to negotiate as part of that process.

    But that is all besides the point. When did it become cool for liberals to hate Israel, and why Israel specifically, when there are so many other countries that do so much worse to their own citizens than Israel has done to the Palestinians? Being pro-Israel has never even been a question for the democrats as far as I am aware, and we should recognize Jerusalem as the capital because it IS the capital.

    Alot of people hate Israel and have for ages now. Cause they do alot of horrible shit. (we've had scores of threads on this very subject oevr the years)

    And that doesn't mean they don't also dislike those other countries. Drop the silly false dichotomy.

    Being "pro-Israel" (meaning, sucking off Israel at every turn, even if it runs counter to US interests) has never been a question for any major player on either side in US politics and still isn't. And for all that time, tons of people have disliked Israel.

    Being pro-Israel isn't a choice, it's a necessary condition of getting elected in the US. People do it regardless of their actual feelings. The same way they wear flag-pins or talk about how much they love God.

    shryke on
  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Yeah Isreal is the US's ally like Saruman was Theodens. Except in this case Theoden is also subsidizing Saruman being assholes and making all the other countries that are his allies mad.
    We're pissing off the world quite well by ourselves, I think. While Israel is brought up in speeches, the invasion of Iraq and our actions in Iran are much larger determinants of our reputation.


    Is Saralegui wearing a rondel?

  • PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    What time does Clinton start speaking?

    After 10pm when the networks that aren't NBC start live coverage. It will be Elizabeth Warren, possibly the Mayor of LA (I'm not going to try to spell his last name right now) and then the Big Dog

    11793-1.png
    day9gosu.png
    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Bagginses wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Yeah Isreal is the US's ally like Saruman was Theodens. Except in this case Theoden is also subsidizing Saruman being assholes and making all the other countries that are his allies mad.
    We're pissing off the world quite well by ourselves, I think. While Israel is brought up in speeches, the invasion of Iraq and our actions in Iran are much larger determinants of our reputation.


    Is Saralegui wearing a rondel?

    Not so much in the Obama admin, or have you missed the last 4 years?

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    I get a weird tick every time a speaker goes "The President has a plan.. on his website!" I don't know why.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    Xobyte wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    At least the RNC had no issue with their platform or anything, so this is entirely a DNC thing that we should all be ashamed of.

    Poe's law here, I can't tell if this is sarcasm/irony or not. The whole Ron Paul thing and change in delegates was kind of a thing. This was a paraphrased quote from a Republican delegate at the RNC, when Romney changed the rules.

    "They are infringing on our rights."

    Anyhow, on the the "God" thing. On a personal level, I don't mind God, because I like the lessons that Jesus teaches, I think they are great teachings. But I am a big HUGE fucking fan of separation of church and state. Also, there are more than Christians that are on the Democrats side. Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Native-Americans, Buddists, ect that find a place in the big tent on the DNC. So I kinda feel like they were just disenfranchised.

    On the other hand, Christians are a rather large demographic, so strategically, I'm not sure what is the better move.

    Still a tad disappointed.

    I've got to say, as a Buddhist, I don't really give a shit.

    All good my friend.

    I liked seeing the nun. It's nice to finally see a person who identifies as Christian actually stating some of the things that Christians should believe and practice. Things Jesus himself said, like helping the poor and the weak, and taking care of your neighbor.

    I kinda find that the Democrats are the God of the New Testament (forgiveness, feed the poor, cure the sick, self sacrafice) and the Republicans are the God of the Old Testament (fire and brimstone, plagues, Sodom and Gomorrah, wrath to punish sin).

    Not sure how accurate that is, given that it's the former who sends people to the pain dimension for all of time and told his followers to break off all contact with the nonbelievers in their families while the followers of the latter (Jews) are much more live and let live. It's also safe to say that the god of the Torah was dealing with a lot more bullshit, even from his own followers (King David was an asshole).

  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    Glyph wrote: »
    This is bad for the Dems. They're alienating their base left and right. Even if Obama does win in November, his party will be firmly rooted out of Congress and he'll be a lame duck for his second term.

    Apologies if this has been addressed,

    but yeah,

    no,

    The reactionary anti-israel lobby is no one in American politics' "base".

    Is it pandering?

    Yup.

    Should they have handled this better?

    You betcha.

    But this will change a negligible number of votes.

    Lh96QHG.png
  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I missed what happened. What's the deal with the complaining about God now?

    Also, love the fired up Latina lady.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    I get a weird tick every time a speaker goes "The President has a plan.. on his website!" I don't know why.

    Well plans are not sound biteable, you can't say "Well let me lay out this multi page plan for all of you to hear while you are bored to tears" They all can't be Ezra Klein.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    I missed what happened. What's the deal with the complaining about God now?

    Also, love the fired up Latina lady.

    The word "God" wasn't in the platform. "Faith" was all over it, but that doesn't count.

    Also Jerusalem as the capital of Israel wasn't in it like it usually is, even though that's dumb (at least an undivided one) and will never happen.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Athenor wrote: »
    I get a weird tick every time a speaker goes "The President has a plan.. on his website!" I don't know why.

    Well plans are not sound biteable, you can't say "Well let me lay out this multi page plan for all of you to hear while you are bored to tears" They all can't be Ezra Klein.

    I know, I think it's just the way it is said. I know she talked a lot about policy - most of the speakers have been, which is all I wanted from this convention. But the earlier call out to the /plan site just sounded forced by someone else.

    I like this guy more than the Staples guy.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Glyph wrote: »
    This is bad for the Dems. They're alienating their base left and right. Even if Obama does win in November, his party will be firmly rooted out of Congress and he'll be a lame duck for his second term.

    Apologies if this has been addressed,

    but yeah,

    no,

    The reactionary anti-israel lobby is no one in American politics' "base".

    Is it pandering?

    Yup.

    Should they have handled this better?

    You betcha.

    But this will change a negligible number of votes.

    Exactly. US public opinion has always been overwhelmingly pro-Israel over Palestine. In fact, I am. It aware of a single poll where more Americans were pro Palestine than pro-Israel. Americans support Israel by and large, on a broad, bipartisan basis. The omission from the platform was weird, and felt like acquiescing to a vocal minority of anti-Israel people. I'm glad to see they reversed course, I just wish they hadn't made the omission at all, and hadn't had the spectacle of people seeming way out of touch on this issue by booing.

  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    I missed what happened. What's the deal with the complaining about God now?

    Also, love the fired up Latina lady.

    The word "God" wasn't in the platform. "Faith" was all over it, but that doesn't count.

    Also Jerusalem as the capital of Israel wasn't in it like it usually is, even though that's dumb (at least an undivided one) and will never happen.

    It already is the capital. If anything is stupid, it's that foreign countries refuse to recognize it as the capital. I am not aware of any other country in history where foreign countries decided not to recognize the official capital.

  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I missed what happened. What's the deal with the complaining about God now?

    Also, love the fired up Latina lady.

    The word "God" wasn't in the platform. "Faith" was all over it, but that doesn't count.

    Also Jerusalem as the capital of Israel wasn't in it like it usually is, even though that's dumb (at least an undivided one) and will never happen.

    .....

    sigh.

    just. just fucking hell.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Athenor wrote: »
    I get a weird tick every time a speaker goes "The President has a plan.. on his website!" I don't know why.

    Well plans are not sound biteable, you can't say "Well let me lay out this multi page plan for all of you to hear while you are bored to tears" They all can't be Ezra Klein.

    I know, I think it's just the way it is said. I know she talked a lot about policy - most of the speakers have been, which is all I wanted from this convention. But the earlier call out to the /plan site just sounded forced by someone else.

    I like this guy more than the Staples guy.

    Because there's no way to say "dot tumblr dot com" without sounding like a goose?

    Even though that fact is a wonderful aspect about the future and being able to hold people in positions of power to some degree of account. Hell, there are times when I come into this thread/read various blogs and start thinking about Ender's Game and Demosthenes & Locke.

  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Bagginses wrote: »
    Xobyte wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    At least the RNC had no issue with their platform or anything, so this is entirely a DNC thing that we should all be ashamed of.

    Poe's law here, I can't tell if this is sarcasm/irony or not. The whole Ron Paul thing and change in delegates was kind of a thing. This was a paraphrased quote from a Republican delegate at the RNC, when Romney changed the rules.

    "They are infringing on our rights."

    Anyhow, on the the "God" thing. On a personal level, I don't mind God, because I like the lessons that Jesus teaches, I think they are great teachings. But I am a big HUGE fucking fan of separation of church and state. Also, there are more than Christians that are on the Democrats side. Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Native-Americans, Buddists, ect that find a place in the big tent on the DNC. So I kinda feel like they were just disenfranchised.

    On the other hand, Christians are a rather large demographic, so strategically, I'm not sure what is the better move.

    Still a tad disappointed.

    I've got to say, as a Buddhist, I don't really give a shit.

    All good my friend.

    I liked seeing the nun. It's nice to finally see a person who identifies as Christian actually stating some of the things that Christians should believe and practice. Things Jesus himself said, like helping the poor and the weak, and taking care of your neighbor.

    I kinda find that the Democrats are the God of the New Testament (forgiveness, feed the poor, cure the sick, self sacrafice) and the Republicans are the God of the Old Testament (fire and brimstone, plagues, Sodom and Gomorrah, wrath to punish sin).

    Not sure how accurate that is, given that it's the former who sends people to the pain dimension for all of time and told his followers to break off all contact with the nonbelievers in their families while the followers of the latter (Jews) are much more live and let live. It's also safe to say that the god of the Torah was dealing with a lot more bullshit, even from his own followers (King David was an asshole).

    Doesn't the God of both Testaments send people to hell for all eternity?

    Anyhow, the metaphor wasn't about God, it was about moral teachings. It was just an underhanded jab on my part about how much the GOP enspouses themselves as Christians, yet ignore a lot Jesus's better teachings.

    steam_sig.png

    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    I missed what happened. What's the deal with the complaining about God now?

    Also, love the fired up Latina lady.

    The word "God" wasn't in the platform. "Faith" was all over it, but that doesn't count.

    Also Jerusalem as the capital of Israel wasn't in it like it usually is, even though that's dumb (at least an undivided one) and will never happen.

    It already is the capital.

    Not according to International Law which created the country itself to begin with.

  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    I missed what happened. What's the deal with the complaining about God now?

    Also, love the fired up Latina lady.

    The word "God" wasn't in the platform. "Faith" was all over it, but that doesn't count.

    Also Jerusalem as the capital of Israel wasn't in it like it usually is, even though that's dumb (at least an undivided one) and will never happen.

    It already is the capital. If anything is stupid, it's that foreign countries refuse to recognize it as the capital. I am not aware of any other country in history where foreign countries decided not to recognize the official capital.

    Jerusalem didn't used to be the capital. Israel is not as simple as people like to make it out to be.

    Lh96QHG.png
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    I missed what happened. What's the deal with the complaining about God now?

    Also, love the fired up Latina lady.

    The word "God" wasn't in the platform. "Faith" was all over it, but that doesn't count.

    Also Jerusalem as the capital of Israel wasn't in it like it usually is, even though that's dumb (at least an undivided one) and will never happen.

    It already is the capital. If anything is stupid, it's that foreign countries refuse to recognize it as the capital. I am not aware of any other country in history where foreign countries decided not to recognize the official capital.

    It has to do with the legal difference of recognizing occupied territory and official territory under international law.

    If you want we can talk about this in pms or another thread. This is a thread for the presidential election not of international law, Israel and the issues involved with the two state solution and how the land gets split up.

    u7stthr17eud.png
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Glyph wrote: »
    This is bad for the Dems. They're alienating their base left and right. Even if Obama does win in November, his party will be firmly rooted out of Congress and he'll be a lame duck for his second term.

    Apologies if this has been addressed,

    but yeah,

    no,

    The reactionary anti-israel lobby is no one in American politics' "base".

    Is it pandering?

    Yup.

    Should they have handled this better?

    You betcha.

    But this will change a negligible number of votes.

    Exactly. US public opinion has always been overwhelmingly pro-Israel over Palestine. In fact, I am. It aware of a single poll where more Americans were pro Palestine than pro-Israel. Americans support Israel by and large, on a broad, bipartisan basis. The omission from the platform was weird, and felt like acquiescing to a vocal minority of anti-Israel people. I'm glad to see they reversed course, I just wish they hadn't made the omission at all, and hadn't had the spectacle of people seeming way out of touch on this issue by booing.

    Only in the broad strokes way that Americans self identify as 'Conservatives' but have much murkier beliefs when you ask about different policies individually.

  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Bagginses wrote: »
    Xobyte wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    At least the RNC had no issue with their platform or anything, so this is entirely a DNC thing that we should all be ashamed of.

    Poe's law here, I can't tell if this is sarcasm/irony or not. The whole Ron Paul thing and change in delegates was kind of a thing. This was a paraphrased quote from a Republican delegate at the RNC, when Romney changed the rules.

    "They are infringing on our rights."

    Anyhow, on the the "God" thing. On a personal level, I don't mind God, because I like the lessons that Jesus teaches, I think they are great teachings. But I am a big HUGE fucking fan of separation of church and state. Also, there are more than Christians that are on the Democrats side. Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Native-Americans, Buddists, ect that find a place in the big tent on the DNC. So I kinda feel like they were just disenfranchised.

    On the other hand, Christians are a rather large demographic, so strategically, I'm not sure what is the better move.

    Still a tad disappointed.

    I've got to say, as a Buddhist, I don't really give a shit.

    All good my friend.

    I liked seeing the nun. It's nice to finally see a person who identifies as Christian actually stating some of the things that Christians should believe and practice. Things Jesus himself said, like helping the poor and the weak, and taking care of your neighbor.

    I kinda find that the Democrats are the God of the New Testament (forgiveness, feed the poor, cure the sick, self sacrafice) and the Republicans are the God of the Old Testament (fire and brimstone, plagues, Sodom and Gomorrah, wrath to punish sin).

    Not sure how accurate that is, given that it's the former who sends people to the pain dimension for all of time and told his followers to break off all contact with the nonbelievers in their families while the followers of the latter (Jews) are much more live and let live. It's also safe to say that the god of the Torah was dealing with a lot more bullshit, even from his own followers (King David was an asshole).

    Doesn't the God of both Testaments send people to hell for all eternity?

    Anyhow, the metaphor wasn't about God, it was about moral teachings. It was just an underhanded jab on my part about how much the GOP enspouses themselves as Christians, yet ignore a lot Jesus's better teachings.

    No hell in the Torah. Christians might have retconned it in though. Never read their version.

  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    I missed what happened. What's the deal with the complaining about God now?

    Also, love the fired up Latina lady.

    The word "God" wasn't in the platform. "Faith" was all over it, but that doesn't count.

    Also Jerusalem as the capital of Israel wasn't in it like it usually is, even though that's dumb (at least an undivided one) and will never happen.

    It already is the capital. If anything is stupid, it's that foreign countries refuse to recognize it as the capital. I am not aware of any other country in history where foreign countries decided not to recognize the official capital.

    It has to do with the legal difference of recognizing occupied territory and official territory under international law.

    If you want we can talk about this in pms or another thread. This is a thread for the presidential election not of international law, Israel and the issues involved with the two state solution and how the land gets split up.

    Sorry. I'd be happy to talk in another thread or drop it. Im just unhappy with the people at DNC that booed.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Bagginses wrote: »
    Xobyte wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    At least the RNC had no issue with their platform or anything, so this is entirely a DNC thing that we should all be ashamed of.

    Poe's law here, I can't tell if this is sarcasm/irony or not. The whole Ron Paul thing and change in delegates was kind of a thing. This was a paraphrased quote from a Republican delegate at the RNC, when Romney changed the rules.

    "They are infringing on our rights."

    Anyhow, on the the "God" thing. On a personal level, I don't mind God, because I like the lessons that Jesus teaches, I think they are great teachings. But I am a big HUGE fucking fan of separation of church and state. Also, there are more than Christians that are on the Democrats side. Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Native-Americans, Buddists, ect that find a place in the big tent on the DNC. So I kinda feel like they were just disenfranchised.

    On the other hand, Christians are a rather large demographic, so strategically, I'm not sure what is the better move.

    Still a tad disappointed.

    I've got to say, as a Buddhist, I don't really give a shit.

    All good my friend.

    I liked seeing the nun. It's nice to finally see a person who identifies as Christian actually stating some of the things that Christians should believe and practice. Things Jesus himself said, like helping the poor and the weak, and taking care of your neighbor.

    I kinda find that the Democrats are the God of the New Testament (forgiveness, feed the poor, cure the sick, self sacrafice) and the Republicans are the God of the Old Testament (fire and brimstone, plagues, Sodom and Gomorrah, wrath to punish sin).

    Not sure how accurate that is, given that it's the former who sends people to the pain dimension for all of time and told his followers to break off all contact with the nonbelievers in their families while the followers of the latter (Jews) are much more live and let live. It's also safe to say that the god of the Torah was dealing with a lot more bullshit, even from his own followers (King David was an asshole).

    Doesn't the God of both Testaments send people to hell for all eternity?

    Anyhow, the metaphor wasn't about God, it was about moral teachings. It was just an underhanded jab on my part about how much the GOP enspouses themselves as Christians, yet ignore a lot Jesus's better teachings.

    Jews don't have hell.

    They do, however, have Jewish mothers. Hey-o!

  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Bagginses wrote: »
    Xobyte wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    At least the RNC had no issue with their platform or anything, so this is entirely a DNC thing that we should all be ashamed of.

    Poe's law here, I can't tell if this is sarcasm/irony or not. The whole Ron Paul thing and change in delegates was kind of a thing. This was a paraphrased quote from a Republican delegate at the RNC, when Romney changed the rules.

    "They are infringing on our rights."

    Anyhow, on the the "God" thing. On a personal level, I don't mind God, because I like the lessons that Jesus teaches, I think they are great teachings. But I am a big HUGE fucking fan of separation of church and state. Also, there are more than Christians that are on the Democrats side. Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Native-Americans, Buddists, ect that find a place in the big tent on the DNC. So I kinda feel like they were just disenfranchised.

    On the other hand, Christians are a rather large demographic, so strategically, I'm not sure what is the better move.

    Still a tad disappointed.

    I've got to say, as a Buddhist, I don't really give a shit.

    All good my friend.

    I liked seeing the nun. It's nice to finally see a person who identifies as Christian actually stating some of the things that Christians should believe and practice. Things Jesus himself said, like helping the poor and the weak, and taking care of your neighbor.

    I kinda find that the Democrats are the God of the New Testament (forgiveness, feed the poor, cure the sick, self sacrafice) and the Republicans are the God of the Old Testament (fire and brimstone, plagues, Sodom and Gomorrah, wrath to punish sin).

    Not sure how accurate that is, given that it's the former who sends people to the pain dimension for all of time and told his followers to break off all contact with the nonbelievers in their families while the followers of the latter (Jews) are much more live and let live. It's also safe to say that the god of the Torah was dealing with a lot more bullshit, even from his own followers (King David was an asshole).

    Doesn't the God of both Testaments send people to hell for all eternity?

    Anyhow, the metaphor wasn't about God, it was about moral teachings. It was just an underhanded jab on my part about how much the GOP enspouses themselves as Christians, yet ignore a lot Jesus's better teachings.

    No hell in the Torah. Christians might have retconned it in though. Never read their version.

    Ah! I didn't know that. I was always taught about hell and God's wrath as a child. Also, I never thought of the Bible as a retcon. My nerd bone is tickled by this thought, even though I know it's been done before.

    steam_sig.png

    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    I wouldn't be pissed off about the God/Jerusalem thing if they hadn't taken it out to start with

  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Bagginses wrote: »
    Xobyte wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    At least the RNC had no issue with their platform or anything, so this is entirely a DNC thing that we should all be ashamed of.

    Poe's law here, I can't tell if this is sarcasm/irony or not. The whole Ron Paul thing and change in delegates was kind of a thing. This was a paraphrased quote from a Republican delegate at the RNC, when Romney changed the rules.

    "They are infringing on our rights."

    Anyhow, on the the "God" thing. On a personal level, I don't mind God, because I like the lessons that Jesus teaches, I think they are great teachings. But I am a big HUGE fucking fan of separation of church and state. Also, there are more than Christians that are on the Democrats side. Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Native-Americans, Buddists, ect that find a place in the big tent on the DNC. So I kinda feel like they were just disenfranchised.

    On the other hand, Christians are a rather large demographic, so strategically, I'm not sure what is the better move.

    Still a tad disappointed.

    I've got to say, as a Buddhist, I don't really give a shit.

    All good my friend.

    I liked seeing the nun. It's nice to finally see a person who identifies as Christian actually stating some of the things that Christians should believe and practice. Things Jesus himself said, like helping the poor and the weak, and taking care of your neighbor.

    I kinda find that the Democrats are the God of the New Testament (forgiveness, feed the poor, cure the sick, self sacrafice) and the Republicans are the God of the Old Testament (fire and brimstone, plagues, Sodom and Gomorrah, wrath to punish sin).

    Not sure how accurate that is, given that it's the former who sends people to the pain dimension for all of time and told his followers to break off all contact with the nonbelievers in their families while the followers of the latter (Jews) are much more live and let live. It's also safe to say that the god of the Torah was dealing with a lot more bullshit, even from his own followers (King David was an asshole).

    Doesn't the God of both Testaments send people to hell for all eternity?

    Anyhow, the metaphor wasn't about God, it was about moral teachings. It was just an underhanded jab on my part about how much the GOP enspouses themselves as Christians, yet ignore a lot Jesus's better teachings.

    No hell in the Torah. Christians might have retconned it in though. Never read their version.

    Ah! I didn't know that. I was always taught about hell and God's wrath as a child. Also, I never thought of the Bible as a retcon. My nerd bone is tickled by this thought, even though I know it's been done before.

    Isn't the snake the devil or some nonsense in the Christian version. Torah = no hell or devil. God can be kind of a dick though. Pillars of salt and drowning the world and what not.

  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    Bagginses wrote: »
    Xobyte wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    At least the RNC had no issue with their platform or anything, so this is entirely a DNC thing that we should all be ashamed of.

    Poe's law here, I can't tell if this is sarcasm/irony or not. The whole Ron Paul thing and change in delegates was kind of a thing. This was a paraphrased quote from a Republican delegate at the RNC, when Romney changed the rules.

    "They are infringing on our rights."

    Anyhow, on the the "God" thing. On a personal level, I don't mind God, because I like the lessons that Jesus teaches, I think they are great teachings. But I am a big HUGE fucking fan of separation of church and state. Also, there are more than Christians that are on the Democrats side. Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Native-Americans, Buddists, ect that find a place in the big tent on the DNC. So I kinda feel like they were just disenfranchised.

    On the other hand, Christians are a rather large demographic, so strategically, I'm not sure what is the better move.

    Still a tad disappointed.

    I've got to say, as a Buddhist, I don't really give a shit.

    All good my friend.

    I liked seeing the nun. It's nice to finally see a person who identifies as Christian actually stating some of the things that Christians should believe and practice. Things Jesus himself said, like helping the poor and the weak, and taking care of your neighbor.

    I kinda find that the Democrats are the God of the New Testament (forgiveness, feed the poor, cure the sick, self sacrafice) and the Republicans are the God of the Old Testament (fire and brimstone, plagues, Sodom and Gomorrah, wrath to punish sin).

    Not sure how accurate that is, given that it's the former who sends people to the pain dimension for all of time and told his followers to break off all contact with the nonbelievers in their families while the followers of the latter (Jews) are much more live and let live. It's also safe to say that the god of the Torah was dealing with a lot more bullshit, even from his own followers (King David was an asshole).

    Doesn't the God of both Testaments send people to hell for all eternity?

    Anyhow, the metaphor wasn't about God, it was about moral teachings. It was just an underhanded jab on my part about how much the GOP enspouses themselves as Christians, yet ignore a lot Jesus's better teachings.

    No hell in the Torah. Christians might have retconned it in though. Never read their version.

    The subject of the afterlife appears to have never come up until roughly 20 BCE, and hasn't really come up since. That's why the Christian afterlife is so much like the Roman one and Christianity is so much like the "get into Elysium free" cults of the time.

  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    Bagginses wrote: »
    Xobyte wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    At least the RNC had no issue with their platform or anything, so this is entirely a DNC thing that we should all be ashamed of.

    Poe's law here, I can't tell if this is sarcasm/irony or not. The whole Ron Paul thing and change in delegates was kind of a thing. This was a paraphrased quote from a Republican delegate at the RNC, when Romney changed the rules.

    "They are infringing on our rights."

    Anyhow, on the the "God" thing. On a personal level, I don't mind God, because I like the lessons that Jesus teaches, I think they are great teachings. But I am a big HUGE fucking fan of separation of church and state. Also, there are more than Christians that are on the Democrats side. Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Native-Americans, Buddists, ect that find a place in the big tent on the DNC. So I kinda feel like they were just disenfranchised.

    On the other hand, Christians are a rather large demographic, so strategically, I'm not sure what is the better move.

    Still a tad disappointed.

    I've got to say, as a Buddhist, I don't really give a shit.

    All good my friend.

    I liked seeing the nun. It's nice to finally see a person who identifies as Christian actually stating some of the things that Christians should believe and practice. Things Jesus himself said, like helping the poor and the weak, and taking care of your neighbor.

    I kinda find that the Democrats are the God of the New Testament (forgiveness, feed the poor, cure the sick, self sacrafice) and the Republicans are the God of the Old Testament (fire and brimstone, plagues, Sodom and Gomorrah, wrath to punish sin).

    Not sure how accurate that is, given that it's the former who sends people to the pain dimension for all of time and told his followers to break off all contact with the nonbelievers in their families while the followers of the latter (Jews) are much more live and let live. It's also safe to say that the god of the Torah was dealing with a lot more bullshit, even from his own followers (King David was an asshole).

    Doesn't the God of both Testaments send people to hell for all eternity?

    Anyhow, the metaphor wasn't about God, it was about moral teachings. It was just an underhanded jab on my part about how much the GOP enspouses themselves as Christians, yet ignore a lot Jesus's better teachings.

    No hell in the Torah. Christians might have retconned it in though. Never read their version.

    Ah! I didn't know that. I was always taught about hell and God's wrath as a child. Also, I never thought of the Bible as a retcon. My nerd bone is tickled by this thought, even though I know it's been done before.

    Isn't the snake the devil or some nonsense in the Christian version. Torah = no hell or devil. God can be kind of a dick though. Pillars of salt and drowning the world and what not.

    Thanks to John Milton people often assume that the snake is the devil, but this isn't official dogma or anything.

    Lh96QHG.png
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    These stories about Bain are pretty damning for Romney. Especially with the profits they talk about.

    u7stthr17eud.png
  • MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Bagginses wrote: »
    Xobyte wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    At least the RNC had no issue with their platform or anything, so this is entirely a DNC thing that we should all be ashamed of.

    Poe's law here, I can't tell if this is sarcasm/irony or not. The whole Ron Paul thing and change in delegates was kind of a thing. This was a paraphrased quote from a Republican delegate at the RNC, when Romney changed the rules.

    "They are infringing on our rights."

    Anyhow, on the the "God" thing. On a personal level, I don't mind God, because I like the lessons that Jesus teaches, I think they are great teachings. But I am a big HUGE fucking fan of separation of church and state. Also, there are more than Christians that are on the Democrats side. Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Native-Americans, Buddists, ect that find a place in the big tent on the DNC. So I kinda feel like they were just disenfranchised.

    On the other hand, Christians are a rather large demographic, so strategically, I'm not sure what is the better move.

    Still a tad disappointed.

    I've got to say, as a Buddhist, I don't really give a shit.

    All good my friend.

    I liked seeing the nun. It's nice to finally see a person who identifies as Christian actually stating some of the things that Christians should believe and practice. Things Jesus himself said, like helping the poor and the weak, and taking care of your neighbor.

    I kinda find that the Democrats are the God of the New Testament (forgiveness, feed the poor, cure the sick, self sacrafice) and the Republicans are the God of the Old Testament (fire and brimstone, plagues, Sodom and Gomorrah, wrath to punish sin).

    Not sure how accurate that is, given that it's the former who sends people to the pain dimension for all of time and told his followers to break off all contact with the nonbelievers in their families while the followers of the latter (Jews) are much more live and let live. It's also safe to say that the god of the Torah was dealing with a lot more bullshit, even from his own followers (King David was an asshole).

    Doesn't the God of both Testaments send people to hell for all eternity?

    Anyhow, the metaphor wasn't about God, it was about moral teachings. It was just an underhanded jab on my part about how much the GOP enspouses themselves as Christians, yet ignore a lot Jesus's better teachings.

    No hell in the Torah. Christians might have retconned it in though. Never read their version.

    Ah! I didn't know that. I was always taught about hell and God's wrath as a child. Also, I never thought of the Bible as a retcon. My nerd bone is tickled by this thought, even though I know it's been done before.

    Isn't the snake the devil or some nonsense in the Christian version. Torah = no hell or devil. God can be kind of a dick though. Pillars of salt and drowning the world and what not.

    Well, that's part of the job of the prophets to argue with God and show him the error of his restrictive rules and unfettered wrath.

    Also in the Hebrew faith there is (by some accounts) an underworld but that's not what happens when you die. When you die you are separated from God temporarily (note the "temporarily") or (if you are Hebrew) get to bask in his love.

    Or something.

    But I'm done being off topic.

    Mblackwell on
    Music: The Rejected Applications | Nintendo Network ID: Mblackwell

  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Bagginses wrote: »
    Bagginses wrote: »
    Xobyte wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    At least the RNC had no issue with their platform or anything, so this is entirely a DNC thing that we should all be ashamed of.

    Poe's law here, I can't tell if this is sarcasm/irony or not. The whole Ron Paul thing and change in delegates was kind of a thing. This was a paraphrased quote from a Republican delegate at the RNC, when Romney changed the rules.

    "They are infringing on our rights."

    Anyhow, on the the "God" thing. On a personal level, I don't mind God, because I like the lessons that Jesus teaches, I think they are great teachings. But I am a big HUGE fucking fan of separation of church and state. Also, there are more than Christians that are on the Democrats side. Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Native-Americans, Buddists, ect that find a place in the big tent on the DNC. So I kinda feel like they were just disenfranchised.

    On the other hand, Christians are a rather large demographic, so strategically, I'm not sure what is the better move.

    Still a tad disappointed.

    I've got to say, as a Buddhist, I don't really give a shit.

    All good my friend.

    I liked seeing the nun. It's nice to finally see a person who identifies as Christian actually stating some of the things that Christians should believe and practice. Things Jesus himself said, like helping the poor and the weak, and taking care of your neighbor.

    I kinda find that the Democrats are the God of the New Testament (forgiveness, feed the poor, cure the sick, self sacrafice) and the Republicans are the God of the Old Testament (fire and brimstone, plagues, Sodom and Gomorrah, wrath to punish sin).

    Not sure how accurate that is, given that it's the former who sends people to the pain dimension for all of time and told his followers to break off all contact with the nonbelievers in their families while the followers of the latter (Jews) are much more live and let live. It's also safe to say that the god of the Torah was dealing with a lot more bullshit, even from his own followers (King David was an asshole).

    Doesn't the God of both Testaments send people to hell for all eternity?

    Anyhow, the metaphor wasn't about God, it was about moral teachings. It was just an underhanded jab on my part about how much the GOP enspouses themselves as Christians, yet ignore a lot Jesus's better teachings.

    No hell in the Torah. Christians might have retconned it in though. Never read their version.

    The subject of the afterlife appears to have never come up until roughly 20 BCE, and hasn't really come up since. That's why the Christian afterlife is so much like the Roman one and Christianity is so much like the "get into Elysium free" cults of the time.

    Yeah, we just went with Madonna and made heaven a place on Earth.

  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    Bagginses wrote: »
    Xobyte wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    At least the RNC had no issue with their platform or anything, so this is entirely a DNC thing that we should all be ashamed of.

    Poe's law here, I can't tell if this is sarcasm/irony or not. The whole Ron Paul thing and change in delegates was kind of a thing. This was a paraphrased quote from a Republican delegate at the RNC, when Romney changed the rules.

    "They are infringing on our rights."

    Anyhow, on the the "God" thing. On a personal level, I don't mind God, because I like the lessons that Jesus teaches, I think they are great teachings. But I am a big HUGE fucking fan of separation of church and state. Also, there are more than Christians that are on the Democrats side. Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Native-Americans, Buddists, ect that find a place in the big tent on the DNC. So I kinda feel like they were just disenfranchised.

    On the other hand, Christians are a rather large demographic, so strategically, I'm not sure what is the better move.

    Still a tad disappointed.

    I've got to say, as a Buddhist, I don't really give a shit.

    All good my friend.

    I liked seeing the nun. It's nice to finally see a person who identifies as Christian actually stating some of the things that Christians should believe and practice. Things Jesus himself said, like helping the poor and the weak, and taking care of your neighbor.

    I kinda find that the Democrats are the God of the New Testament (forgiveness, feed the poor, cure the sick, self sacrafice) and the Republicans are the God of the Old Testament (fire and brimstone, plagues, Sodom and Gomorrah, wrath to punish sin).

    Not sure how accurate that is, given that it's the former who sends people to the pain dimension for all of time and told his followers to break off all contact with the nonbelievers in their families while the followers of the latter (Jews) are much more live and let live. It's also safe to say that the god of the Torah was dealing with a lot more bullshit, even from his own followers (King David was an asshole).

    Doesn't the God of both Testaments send people to hell for all eternity?

    Anyhow, the metaphor wasn't about God, it was about moral teachings. It was just an underhanded jab on my part about how much the GOP enspouses themselves as Christians, yet ignore a lot Jesus's better teachings.

    No hell in the Torah. Christians might have retconned it in though. Never read their version.

    Ah! I didn't know that. I was always taught about hell and God's wrath as a child. Also, I never thought of the Bible as a retcon. My nerd bone is tickled by this thought, even though I know it's been done before.

    Isn't the snake the devil or some nonsense in the Christian version. Torah = no hell or devil. God can be kind of a dick though. Pillars of salt and drowning the world and what not.

    Satan exists, but was basically written as the embodiment of God's capability for doubt, especially self-doubt, occasionally as an angel (which would imply a lack of free will in the Jewish tradition).

  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    I've heard Milton described as a great writer and a terrible theologian.

    Anyway! David Foster not having the crowd about to jizz like the speakers from last night, but still getting some good applause.

  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Bagginses wrote: »
    Xobyte wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    At least the RNC had no issue with their platform or anything, so this is entirely a DNC thing that we should all be ashamed of.

    Poe's law here, I can't tell if this is sarcasm/irony or not. The whole Ron Paul thing and change in delegates was kind of a thing. This was a paraphrased quote from a Republican delegate at the RNC, when Romney changed the rules.

    "They are infringing on our rights."

    Anyhow, on the the "God" thing. On a personal level, I don't mind God, because I like the lessons that Jesus teaches, I think they are great teachings. But I am a big HUGE fucking fan of separation of church and state. Also, there are more than Christians that are on the Democrats side. Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Native-Americans, Buddists, ect that find a place in the big tent on the DNC. So I kinda feel like they were just disenfranchised.

    On the other hand, Christians are a rather large demographic, so strategically, I'm not sure what is the better move.

    Still a tad disappointed.

    I've got to say, as a Buddhist, I don't really give a shit.

    All good my friend.

    I liked seeing the nun. It's nice to finally see a person who identifies as Christian actually stating some of the things that Christians should believe and practice. Things Jesus himself said, like helping the poor and the weak, and taking care of your neighbor.

    I kinda find that the Democrats are the God of the New Testament (forgiveness, feed the poor, cure the sick, self sacrafice) and the Republicans are the God of the Old Testament (fire and brimstone, plagues, Sodom and Gomorrah, wrath to punish sin).

    Not sure how accurate that is, given that it's the former who sends people to the pain dimension for all of time and told his followers to break off all contact with the nonbelievers in their families while the followers of the latter (Jews) are much more live and let live. It's also safe to say that the god of the Torah was dealing with a lot more bullshit, even from his own followers (King David was an asshole).

    Doesn't the God of both Testaments send people to hell for all eternity?

    Anyhow, the metaphor wasn't about God, it was about moral teachings. It was just an underhanded jab on my part about how much the GOP enspouses themselves as Christians, yet ignore a lot Jesus's better teachings.

    No hell in the Torah. Christians might have retconned it in though. Never read their version.

    Ah! I didn't know that. I was always taught about hell and God's wrath as a child. Also, I never thought of the Bible as a retcon. My nerd bone is tickled by this thought, even though I know it's been done before.

    Isn't the snake the devil or some nonsense in the Christian version. Torah = no hell or devil. God can be kind of a dick though. Pillars of salt and drowning the world and what not.

    Yeah. Eve was tempted to eat the fruit of knowledge by a snake, which was actually The Devil, who was jealous of Adam and Eve for being God's favorite. He pretty much said eating from the forbidden tree will make them as God. Since Eve ate first, God said that woman would bear the larger part of the punishment, all the punishment of men, but additional pain of childbirth, menstrasion, ect. Part of the reason why the GOP wants to control womens bodies actually, God told them to control those sluts, look what happened last time they had a choice!

    steam_sig.png

    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    These stories about Bain are pretty damning for Romney. Especially with the profits they talk about.

    I was going to say... it feels like Bain is just an evil, evil company in these narratives.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    These stories about Bain are pretty damning for Romney. Especially with the profits they talk about.

    Romney's time at the olympics (government bail out, government lobbying) and time as a Governor (absentee running for pres 47th in the nation in job creation) are equally as bad, his experience is bad when it comes to the public sector.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • CrayonCrayon Sleeps in the wrong bed. TejasRegistered User regular
    Pretty sure Al Franken is drunk hah

This discussion has been closed.