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Circumcision does not reduce sensitivity

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Posts

  • PicardathonPicardathon Registered User
    edited July 2007
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    How about if I get some videos of infants being circumcised, so you can hear them crying in agony? Would that help?
    Then, when he's at any age when he can talk, ask if he can remember any of it.

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Fallout wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    "Sorry guys, you didn't have any appeals to emotion for me to latch onto."

    Coming from the side that gets hilariously emotional about something roughly as consequential as biting off your fingernails.... sorry guys, you didn't have any points or arguments that even tickled my Giveafuckus gland.
    You what else is inconsequential? My earlobe yet funnily enough I'd be pretty mortified if someone wanted to cut it off without my consent at any stage of my life.

    I like your vibe though - "hey I don't care, so clearly there's no moral issue here anyone should worry about".

    Let's ignore the little things. Awesome philosophy.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus IT'S DARE! Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Fallout wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    "Sorry guys, you didn't have any appeals to emotion for me to latch onto."

    Coming from the side that gets hilariously emotional about something roughly as consequential as biting off your fingernails....

    Having your fingernails ripped out would be the accurate analogy.

    spartasig.gif
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • PicardathonPicardathon Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Rentilius wrote: »
    I hear infants crying in agony at the movie theaters. It's just the whole idea of having your penis trimmed is just horrifying because you're so, uh. (pun pun pun nooo) attached to it. You're really just trying to push an emotional response on people when you should just be looking at the health benefits a circumspection offers (and yes I'm aware that it probably does more harm than good.)

    But, the way you're going about it now is just kind of childish.
    I think its just that everyone loves their wang, and they find the idea that someone has a wang that isn't exactly like theirs to be horrifying and disgusting.

  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Something on a similar note here that bugs the shit out of me: parents that get their daughter's ears pierced when they're like, not even a year old. What the fuck is up with that?

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  • FalloutFallout GIRL'S DAY EVERY DAYRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Fallout wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    "Sorry guys, you didn't have any appeals to emotion for me to latch onto."

    Coming from the side that gets hilariously emotional about something roughly as consequential as biting off your fingernails.... sorry guys, you didn't have any points or arguments that even tickled my Giveafuckus gland.
    You what else is inconsequential? My earlobe yet funnily enough I'd be pretty mortified if someone wanted to cut it off without my consent at any stage of my life.

    I like your vibe though - "hey I don't care, so clearly there's no moral issue here anyone should worry about".

    Let's ignore the little things. Awesome philosophy.

    Well, being circumcised, I don't have to worry about smegma. Also cutting off an earlobe would look horrible but my dick is hella pretty

    xcomsig.png
  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Fallout wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    "Sorry guys, you didn't have any appeals to emotion for me to latch onto."

    Coming from the side that gets hilariously emotional about something roughly as consequential as biting off your fingernails.... sorry guys, you didn't have any points or arguments that even tickled my Giveafuckus gland.
    You what else is inconsequential? My earlobe yet funnily enough I'd be pretty mortified if someone wanted to cut it off without my consent at any stage of my life.

    I like your vibe though - "hey I don't care, so clearly there's no moral issue here anyone should worry about".

    Let's ignore the little things. Awesome philosophy.

    Last time I checked, you don't reproduce / piss out of your earlobe, nor is it in plain sight everyday (unless you're really, really sexy.)

  • ShoggothShoggoth Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Rentilius wrote: »
    I hear infants crying in agony at the movie theaters. It's just the whole idea of having your penis trimmed is just horrifying because you're so, uh. (pun pun pun nooo) attached to it. You're really just trying to push an emotional response on people when you should just be looking at the health benefits a circumspection offers (and yes I'm aware that it probably does more harm than good.)

    But, the way you're going about it now is just kind of childish.
    I think its just that everyone loves their wang, and they find the idea that someone has a wang that isn't exactly like theirs to be horrifying and disgusting.

    I really do not see it that way at all.

    11tu0w1.jpg
  • QuidQuid The Fifth Horseman Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I would like to remove my first borns pinky toes. That's doable, right? I mean, they don't really do anything and they're just waiting to get ingrown toe nails.

    For that matter, could I clip their ears? I think they'd look better pointy and they could still hear and pinpoint sound just as well.

    PSN: allenquid
  • PicardathonPicardathon Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Fallout wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    "Sorry guys, you didn't have any appeals to emotion for me to latch onto."

    Coming from the side that gets hilariously emotional about something roughly as consequential as biting off your fingernails.... sorry guys, you didn't have any points or arguments that even tickled my Giveafuckus gland.
    You what else is inconsequential? My earlobe yet funnily enough I'd be pretty mortified if someone wanted to cut it off without my consent at any stage of my life.

    I like your vibe though - "hey I don't care, so clearly there's no moral issue here anyone should worry about".

    Let's ignore the little things. Awesome philosophy.

    Lets totally over react to completely inconsequential things that have nothing to do with us and are far less important than we are making them out to be.
    Also a fantastic philosophy.

  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    You cannot walk without pinky toes. They do everything.

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Rentilius wrote: »
    Fallout wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    "Sorry guys, you didn't have any appeals to emotion for me to latch onto."

    Coming from the side that gets hilariously emotional about something roughly as consequential as biting off your fingernails.... sorry guys, you didn't have any points or arguments that even tickled my Giveafuckus gland.
    You what else is inconsequential? My earlobe yet funnily enough I'd be pretty mortified if someone wanted to cut it off without my consent at any stage of my life.

    I like your vibe though - "hey I don't care, so clearly there's no moral issue here anyone should worry about".

    Let's ignore the little things. Awesome philosophy.

    Last time I checked, you don't reproduce / piss out of your earlobe, nor is it in plain sight everyday (unless you're really, really sexy.)
    I am confused what point you're trying to make here exactly.

  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Rentilius wrote: »
    Fallout wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    "Sorry guys, you didn't have any appeals to emotion for me to latch onto."

    Coming from the side that gets hilariously emotional about something roughly as consequential as biting off your fingernails.... sorry guys, you didn't have any points or arguments that even tickled my Giveafuckus gland.
    You what else is inconsequential? My earlobe yet funnily enough I'd be pretty mortified if someone wanted to cut it off without my consent at any stage of my life.

    I like your vibe though - "hey I don't care, so clearly there's no moral issue here anyone should worry about".

    Let's ignore the little things. Awesome philosophy.

    Last time I checked, you don't reproduce / piss out of your earlobe, nor is it in plain sight everyday (unless you're really, really sexy.)
    I am confused what point you're trying to make here exactly.
    Your earlobe is not like your penis.

  • ShoggothShoggoth Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Fallout wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    "Sorry guys, you didn't have any appeals to emotion for me to latch onto."

    Coming from the side that gets hilariously emotional about something roughly as consequential as biting off your fingernails.... sorry guys, you didn't have any points or arguments that even tickled my Giveafuckus gland.
    You what else is inconsequential? My earlobe yet funnily enough I'd be pretty mortified if someone wanted to cut it off without my consent at any stage of my life.

    I like your vibe though - "hey I don't care, so clearly there's no moral issue here anyone should worry about".

    Let's ignore the little things. Awesome philosophy.

    Lets totally over react to completely inconsequential things that have nothing to do with us and are far less important than we are making them out to be.
    Also a fantastic philosophy.

    Hmmm, apathy is apathy. I think the point here is that circumcision should be something an individual seriously considers and not a joke they dismiss on a whim.

    11tu0w1.jpg
  • QuidQuid The Fifth Horseman Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Rentilius wrote: »
    Last time I checked, you don't reproduce / piss out of your earlobe, nor is it in plain sight everyday (unless you're really, really sexy.)
    Just in plain sight of people you're having sex with who may not enjoy the sight at all. One option lets you fix that if you want, the other does not.

    PSN: allenquid
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy Fighting the War on String Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Why is your apathy about this issue superior to caring about it?

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  • FalloutFallout GIRL'S DAY EVERY DAYRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Shoggoth wrote: »
    Fallout wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    "Sorry guys, you didn't have any appeals to emotion for me to latch onto."

    Coming from the side that gets hilariously emotional about something roughly as consequential as biting off your fingernails.... sorry guys, you didn't have any points or arguments that even tickled my Giveafuckus gland.
    You what else is inconsequential? My earlobe yet funnily enough I'd be pretty mortified if someone wanted to cut it off without my consent at any stage of my life.

    I like your vibe though - "hey I don't care, so clearly there's no moral issue here anyone should worry about".

    Let's ignore the little things. Awesome philosophy.

    Lets totally over react to completely inconsequential things that have nothing to do with us and are far less important than we are making them out to be.
    Also a fantastic philosophy.

    Hmmm, apathy is apathy.

    And, of course, everything in the world is worth worrying about.

    xcomsig.png
  • kaz67kaz67 Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Even if they don't remember the pain, putting an infant through that for no reason seems like a really irresponsible thing for any parent to do. If you want to get circumcised as an adult thats fine but personally I think its immoral to circumcise a baby for cosmetic reasons. That being said, I don't think this is a huge issue and no one seems to be arguing that it is.

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Fallout wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    "Sorry guys, you didn't have any appeals to emotion for me to latch onto."

    Coming from the side that gets hilariously emotional about something roughly as consequential as biting off your fingernails.... sorry guys, you didn't have any points or arguments that even tickled my Giveafuckus gland.
    You what else is inconsequential? My earlobe yet funnily enough I'd be pretty mortified if someone wanted to cut it off without my consent at any stage of my life.

    I like your vibe though - "hey I don't care, so clearly there's no moral issue here anyone should worry about".

    Let's ignore the little things. Awesome philosophy.

    Lets totally over react to completely inconsequential things that have nothing to do with us and are far less important than we are making them out to be.
    Also a fantastic philosophy.
    Well you tell me Picard boy - you don't care? Right - we got that. But, at the same time, you are horrified that others do. In fact, despite your own argument being that it is inconsequential, you find it vastly important that we in fact choose the moral position where we arbitrarily deny choice about that issue to you know, the person it is - in this case - attached to.

    Because I could be wrong, but being inconsequential - as you argue - or important, as others argue, wouldn't the correct thing be to allow the actual person involved to make a decision as to where they stand - rather then assuming we have any right to make that for them.

  • PicardathonPicardathon Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Quid wrote: »
    I would like to remove my first borns pinky toes. That's doable, right? I mean, they don't really do anything and they're just waiting to get ingrown toe nails.

    For that matter, could I clip their ears? I think they'd look better pointy and they could still hear and pinpoint sound just as well.

    Its kind of weird, and they'll be stigmatized from society because their ears are visible while no one even notices if you're circumcised.

  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Quid wrote: »
    Rentilius wrote: »
    Last time I checked, you don't reproduce / piss out of your earlobe, nor is it in plain sight everyday (unless you're really, really sexy.)
    Just in plain sight of people you're having sex with who may not enjoy the sight at all. One option lets you fix that if you want, the other does not.
    Well, both options lead to it looking almost the same while erect. Do you even have a penis?

  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    That you believe it makes it 'moral'?

    I think my position is the moral position.

    sometimes you just gotta do a thing
  • QuidQuid The Fifth Horseman Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Lets totally over react to completely inconsequential things that have nothing to do with us and are far less important than we are making them out to be.
    Also a fantastic philosophy.
    Man what? If anything the people saying don't circumcise are the ones showing they don't care about the little things cause they're cool with how they are.

    You want surgery.

    PSN: allenquid
  • ShoggothShoggoth Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Fallout wrote: »
    Shoggoth wrote: »
    Fallout wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    "Sorry guys, you didn't have any appeals to emotion for me to latch onto."

    Coming from the side that gets hilariously emotional about something roughly as consequential as biting off your fingernails.... sorry guys, you didn't have any points or arguments that even tickled my Giveafuckus gland.
    You what else is inconsequential? My earlobe yet funnily enough I'd be pretty mortified if someone wanted to cut it off without my consent at any stage of my life.

    I like your vibe though - "hey I don't care, so clearly there's no moral issue here anyone should worry about".

    Let's ignore the little things. Awesome philosophy.

    Lets totally over react to completely inconsequential things that have nothing to do with us and are far less important than we are making them out to be.
    Also a fantastic philosophy.

    Hmmm, apathy is apathy.

    And, of course, everything in the world is worth worrying about.

    I edited for some clarity, but yeah I think circumcision is something everyone should at least consider without it being a joke.

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  • FalloutFallout GIRL'S DAY EVERY DAYRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Why is your apathy about this issue superior to caring about it?

    Because it's not worth caring about.

    It is worth not giving a fuck about, however. If you think it decreases sensation regardless of the outcome of the scientific study in the OP, sure, keep it, whatever. If you want to have it done to yourself or your kid, it will have zero impact on their life, ever, so snip it off, whatever.

    xcomsig.png
  • HozHoz Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Rentilius wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Rentilius wrote: »
    Last time I checked, you don't reproduce / piss out of your earlobe, nor is it in plain sight everyday (unless you're really, really sexy.)
    Just in plain sight of people you're having sex with who may not enjoy the sight at all. One option lets you fix that if you want, the other does not.
    Well, both options lead to it looking almost the same while erect. Do you even have a penis?
    Yeah, and after watching all six seasons of Oz recently, I have to point out that both are horrifying while non-erect.

  • PicardathonPicardathon Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Why is your apathy about this issue superior to caring about it?

    Maybe, just maybe, its because no one should give a fuck about a little vestigal flap of skin that no one will ever notice anyway?

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Fallout wrote: »
    Why is your apathy about this issue superior to caring about it?

    Because it's not worth caring about.

    It is worth not giving a fuck about, however. If you think it decreases sensation regardless of the outcome of the scientific study in the OP, sure, keep it, whatever. If you want to have it done to yourself or your kid, it will have zero impact on their life, ever, so snip it off, whatever.

    And yet men go to extraordinary and painful lengths later in life to recover their foreskins.

  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy Fighting the War on String Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Well, you might not give a shit about a lot of stuff, but that doesn't mean it's important.

    Bottom line is, we're performing unnecessary surgery on children, which can result in serious genital mutilation. I can see why that wouldn't tickle your DUR DUR DUR THIS IS IMPORTANT bone though.

    75trafim7bi2.png
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Minor doesn't cut it as far as the inconsequentiality of the foreskin goes. Yes, we're born with it, but its shown in this thread that circumcision goes back to prehistoric times, and we've been okay.
    And people have also been okay when giving themselves gigantic necks or lips and so forth.

    Clearly, that makes it okay to force on children before they can even say the word "no."
    You almost seem to be purposefully dodging my intent here. I didn't mean the foreskin, I meant greater damage that was mentioned in that article about how 2-10% of circumcisions have screw ups. What I was saying is that such a number is unimportant seeing as how medicine knows so much about penises that the problems should be easy to fix.
    Also, I should have looked up the definition of anecdote before making that post :oops:. What I meant was exactly how many guys are so tortured by the lack of an unimportant piece skin on their wang as to decide to undergo massive amounts of pain to create one.

    Actually in some cases they've botched them up so bad that they just say "Oh fuck it" and give the kid full gender change surgery because it was easier than restoring the penis.

    Remember, newborns have VERY SMALL PENISES.

    A doctor's hands do not shrink to compensate.

    Smaller piece of tissue, much easier to ruin them.

    You want numbers? Here's some, for one group that does it: http://www.cirp.org/news/thepost01-12-01/
    And as for the idea that he should choose, I note that adult circumcision hurts like a bitch (ask Abraham, you know the one) and if he wants to marry a Jewish girl then he will need to be circumcised, while he will never remember the actual event or its concurrent pain if it is done as a baby, and any girl who refuses to interact with him, sexually or otherwise, is someone who I don't want my son interacting with anyway.

    I can't really identifying with wanting to mutilate your child so he can marry someone who will also want to mutilate a child and so on until the end of humanity.

    My family tends to reduce their potentially harmful behavior with each generation.
    Thats a pretty fucking serious dose of morphine right there, and the pain goes on pretty long too. And yes, kids feel pain, but is he really going to remember it?

    Being unable to remember it may actually be worse. It's harder to get over psychological trauma when you can't even identify the source.
    Is some pain from the youngest days of his infancy really going to affect him later in life? Really? Also, he won't feel as much pain as he would if he was an adult, because crazy enough just because he's popped out of the womb doesn't mean his nervous system has stopped growing.

    Last I heard the younger you are the more events fuck you up.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus IT'S DARE! Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Why is your apathy about this issue superior to caring about it?

    Maybe, just maybe, its because no one should give a fuck about a little vestigal flap of skin that no one will ever notice anyway?

    You already said that line dipshit, and someone already called you on it.

    The foreskin is not vestigial.

    spartasig.gif
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Why is your apathy about this issue superior to caring about it?

    Maybe, just maybe, its because no one should give a fuck about a little vestigal flap of skin that no one will ever notice anyway?

    You already said that line dipshit, and someone already called you on it.

    The foreskin is not vestigial.

    What is it used for?

    sometimes you just gotta do a thing
  • ShoggothShoggoth Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Fallout wrote: »
    Why is your apathy about this issue superior to caring about it?

    Because it's not worth caring about.

    It is worth not giving a fuck about, however. If you think it decreases sensation regardless of the outcome of the scientific study in the OP, sure, keep it, whatever. If you want to have it done to yourself or your kid, it will have zero impact on their life, ever, so snip it off, whatever.

    If you seriously cannot see how the issue of circumcision brings up the interesting topics of choice and medical validity etc I can't help you care about it.

    EDIT: It's not just a piece of skin we're talking about here, look closer.

    11tu0w1.jpg
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus IT'S DARE! Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Why is your apathy about this issue superior to caring about it?

    Maybe, just maybe, its because no one should give a fuck about a little vestigal flap of skin that no one will ever notice anyway?

    You already said that line dipshit, and someone already called you on it.

    The foreskin is not vestigial.

    What is it used for?

    I'll give you a moment to think about retracting your question, because the answer is so goddamn obvious.

    spartasig.gif
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy Fighting the War on String Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Why is your apathy about this issue superior to caring about it?

    Maybe, just maybe, its because no one should give a fuck about a little vestigal flap of skin that no one will ever notice anyway?

    You already said that line dipshit, and someone already called you on it.

    The foreskin is not vestigial.

    What is it used for?

    It's a sheath designed to protect an extremely sensitive part of the body.

    If you see pictures of cut vs uncut (which I view frequently for... uh, research), uncut guys tend to have smoother, pinker doodle heads. It's not vital or anything but that's what it does.

    75trafim7bi2.png
  • FalloutFallout GIRL'S DAY EVERY DAYRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Fallout wrote: »
    Why is your apathy about this issue superior to caring about it?

    Because it's not worth caring about.

    It is worth not giving a fuck about, however. If you think it decreases sensation regardless of the outcome of the scientific study in the OP, sure, keep it, whatever. If you want to have it done to yourself or your kid, it will have zero impact on their life, ever, so snip it off, whatever.

    And yet men go to extraordinary and painful lengths later in life to recover their foreskins.

    Which is completely, profoundly, inutterably retarded.

    xcomsig.png
  • PicardathonPicardathon Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Quid wrote: »
    Lets totally over react to completely inconsequential things that have nothing to do with us and are far less important than we are making them out to be.
    Also a fantastic philosophy.
    Man what? If anything the people saying don't circumcise are the ones showing they don't care about the little things cause they're cool with how they are.

    You want surgery.

    People who don't want circumcision oppose in on a moral basis and, if allowed, would enact legislation preventing it for the sake of a bunch of tiny babies who wont remember it anyway.
    I want to circumcise any sons I have, but I don't have any problem if you don't, because I shouldn't have control over your life.

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Why is your apathy about this issue superior to caring about it?

    Maybe, just maybe, its because no one should give a fuck about a little vestigal flap of skin that no one will ever notice anyway?

    You already said that line dipshit, and someone already called you on it.

    The foreskin is not vestigial.

    What is it used for?
    I do imagine it's purpose was to protect the glans of the penis from incidental environmental damage, sunburn that sort of thing. As it stands it is a handy masturbation aid at the minimum.

  • LadyMLadyM Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I don't think babies should be circumcised. If adults choose to do it, that's fine.

  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Why is your apathy about this issue superior to caring about it?

    Maybe, just maybe, its because no one should give a fuck about a little vestigal flap of skin that no one will ever notice anyway?

    You already said that line dipshit, and someone already called you on it.

    The foreskin is not vestigial.

    What is it used for?

    I'll give you a moment to think about retracting your question, because the answer is so goddamn obvious.

    Well, I've gone eighteen years without one and have never stopped to think, "Man, maybe I would be better off with a bit of skin here," so no, it's not very obvious.

    sometimes you just gotta do a thing
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