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Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited June 2013
I always kind of figured AFFC and DWF will be more enjoyable when the series is over and we know what all of this buildup is all about. Right now you're just left with blue balls though.
Man, why do people think that Jon Snow is going to be the King of the White Walkers? I always figured that role would go to someone like Bran. I mean, he got an escort to somewhere incredibly far north BY a white walker. He's able to warg harder than anyone else and possess heart trees and everything. Admittedly, I've only read the books once, so I might be forgetting some key buildup to Jon becoming that instead of Azor Azhai but...
Man, why do people think that Jon Snow is going to be the King of the White Walkers? I always figured that role would go to someone like Bran. I mean, he got an escort to somewhere incredibly far north BY a white walker. He's able to warg harder than anyone else and possess heart trees and everything. Admittedly, I've only read the books once, so I might be forgetting some key buildup to Jon becoming that instead of Azor Azhai but...
Bran
Coldhands is, I guess, a wight? But he seems to be a very distinct entity from the other wights
But he is not a White Walker
This is probably a stupid question, but why is the three-eyed raven so important?
IIRC, the three-eyed raven is more or less the projection of the last true Greenseer. He's reaching out to Bran because Bran is way more in touch with his warg powers and would be the best to be the Greenseer's successor.
I finished feast, and I have a long hospital appointment tomorrow to make a start on dance. I'm almost certain that the end of feast is the result of the publisher screaming "finish the fucking sentence you're on and ship it"
I'm sure the books would come out at a faster pace if Martin would just admit to himself that he's not going to finish the series in seven books
I imagine him spending a lot of time figuring out the logistsics of wrapping up all the lose ends and various character arcs, while at the same time he keeps coming up with all these new characters he wants to introduce
UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
I think things will go better for him now
it really felt towards the end of Dance like he was starting to pare down and/or combine different plot threads, which should avoid or limit future knots
Having finished and knowing what to expect from it, I didn't mind Feast too much once I stopped expecting something to happen. It's a book full of character moments rather than full of plot. If I'd read it when it came out, knowing that there'd be three years until the next one, I'd probably have hated it. As it is, knowing I can read the next one whenever I want, it's not too bad.
There's not a lot of character development though. Cersei's plot in particular takes a lot of time to tell us that Cersei would be a bad queen and is a pretty unpleasant person. The scales falling from Jaime's eyes seems like the most important thing that happened in her plot. Brienne's character is still Honourable And Good At Fighting. I enjoyed Arya's plot a lot, but found the end point frustrating. Presumably it's going to be two books until we find out what the fuck happened there, ditto Brienne's almost literal cliffhanger
Man, why do people think that Jon Snow is going to be the King of the White Walkers? I always figured that role would go to someone like Bran. I mean, he got an escort to somewhere incredibly far north BY a white walker. He's able to warg harder than anyone else and possess heart trees and everything. Admittedly, I've only read the books once, so I might be forgetting some key buildup to Jon becoming that instead of Azor Azhai but...
Bran
Coldhands is, I guess, a wight? But he seems to be a very distinct entity from the other wights
But he is not a White Walker
Well, I suppose I missed that! I should really be less surprised when that happens with the books I read. The first time I read Fellowship of the Ring, I completely missed when Strider revealed himself to be Aragorn, and only realized my mistake when I read the summary before starting The Two Towers. I spent a loooooot of Fellowship wondering where Strider went off to, because he was so much more intriguing than the new guy.
This is probably a stupid question, but why is the three-eyed raven so important?
IIRC, the three-eyed raven is more or less the projection of the last true Greenseer. He's reaching out to Bran because Bran is way more in touch with his warg powers and would be the best to be the Greenseer's successor.
This is probably a stupid question, but why is the three-eyed raven so important?
IIRC, the three-eyed raven is more or less the projection of the last true Greenseer. He's reaching out to Bran because Bran is way more in touch with his warg powers and would be the best to be the Greenseer's successor.
As a show watcher, I'm not sure what a
Greenseer
is.
Maybe I should read the books.
I don't think this is really a spoiler for the point you're at now, but just to be safe:
The dreams Bran has with the crow, Jojen, etc., they're called "Green Dreams". People who have those dreams are called Greenseers.
Sorry! I probably should've labeled it as book spoilers.
0
Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
Having finished and knowing what to expect from it, I didn't mind Feast too much once I stopped expecting something to happen. It's a book full of character moments rather than full of plot. If I'd read it when it came out, knowing that there'd be three years until the next one, I'd probably have hated it. As it is, knowing I can read the next one whenever I want, it's not too bad.
There's not a lot of character development though. Cersei's plot in particular takes a lot of time to tell us that Cersei would be a bad queen and is a pretty unpleasant person. The scales falling from Jaime's eyes seems like the most important thing that happened in her plot. Brienne's character is still Honourable And Good At Fighting. I enjoyed Arya's plot a lot, but found the end point frustrating. Presumably it's going to be two books until we find out what the fuck happened there, ditto Brienne's almost literal cliffhanger
Well...that's not entirely true. When Martin originally released AFFC, he said that he was splitting it and DWD into the separate parts because of "BIG BOOKS CAN'T BE PUBLISHED"reasons, but that the follow up to AFFC would come out in one year, and that it was already done, edited and ready for print. Just that the whole manuscript was too big. So, COMPROMISE.
Only. 6 years later.
So that could also contribute a bit to the hatred of AFFC. I know that on my 2nd read through, I hated the book much less, and that most of my hatred was that my I had to wait another yearsix years before I actually got some resolution for my favorite plot lines.
Someone did the math somewhere, I forget where, that AFFC is like 23 or 27% Cersei's book, and the next highest was Arya with 11 or 12%, based on page count. And I honestly don't think ANYONE before book 4 was like OH PLEASE MR. MARTIN PLEASE GIVE ME MORE CERSEI.
It doesn't help that you're right, in that he takes an awfully long time to basically show us things we already knew - Cersei is pretty much a bitch, is a horrible queen, and is exactly what Tywin told her in the show - her problem isn't that she's a woman (which she blames for ALL her woes), her problem is that she is not nearly as smart as she thinks she is. Which we already knew. From 3 books worth of her nonsense.
Ah well. I'm stuck in this 'til the end.
I still think that the series is going to end with Gurm's death. I think he's going to have book 7 ready to be published, and he's only going to let it be published after he's already dead. And it's going to be 1,000 pages long. But on page 589, it's going to be:
And Tyrion looked upon the three dragons, whip in hand. And they looked back upon him, and seemed to take his measure, waiting for his comm...
And then I died.
And the rest of the pages will be blank.
E: I always put an additional S in my spoiler(s) tag. Every time.
JustTee on
Diagnosed with AML on 6/1/12. Read about it: www.effleukemia.com
On the one hand, part of me desperately wishes George R.R Martin would hire an edit to slash and burn some of the fat from his manuscripts, and maybe even get the fucking things released in a timely fashion.
On the other hand, I hugely admire him for saying "this medium doesn't require me to limit myself, and the books sell well. I'm going to put everything in that I want to". As a reader, I want an editor. As any kind of artist, I want him to keep doing what he's doing.
re: Cersei, I actually was looking forward to Cersei chapters because I thought we'd learn more about her motivations and how she became who she is. Bearing in mind that in Game of Thrones, Jaime was a cackling cartoon villain and The Hound was a snarling monster, I thought I'd end up feeling a lot of sympathy for her or at least have my preconceptions challenged. If anything, she became more cartoonish, and even the chapter that dealt with her being
I always kind of figured AFFC and DWF will be more enjoyable when the series is over and we know what all of this buildup is all about. Right now you're just left with blue balls though.
Roasted blue balls, served in trenchers, covered with pease. And when you bite into them, the grease and gravy drips heavily into your coarse, matted beard.
On the one hand, part of me desperately wishes George R.R Martin would hire an edit to slash and burn some of the fat from his manuscripts, and maybe even get the fucking things released in a timely fashion.
On the other hand, I hugely admire him for saying "this medium doesn't require me to limit myself, and the books sell well. I'm going to put everything in that I want to". As a reader, I want an editor. As any kind of artist, I want him to keep doing what he's doing.
From what we know, he's already heavily edited. There are entire viewpoints and chapters that have been stripped out of the previous books, and may never be published. Some of the work may or may not be repurposed for the ASOIF Silmarillion or side stories that he is contracted for once the series wraps up, but who knows if/when that will ever happen. FYI, he has left explicit instructions that should he pass, anything that isn't published (notes, manuscripts, drafts, etc.) is to be destroyed. So there is no chance of anything being published posthumously.
You know what's sad is that should, god forbid, that actually happen, people will be more pissed off that he didn't finish than that he passed away. They'll call it something stupid like the Red Publication.
And if the HBO series never concludes, there's every chance that Dan and Dave would respect his wishes and simply never tell anyone what happens at the end.
Could you imagine? Never knowing how this whole damn thing ends?
I actually do think Cersei's chapters made her more sympathetic, though
they prove that she really is just evil and paranoid to the point of insanity, but they also indicate that most of it originates from her love for her children (and a lot of the insanity is bound up in Joffrey's death and her terror of what might happen to Tommen/Myrcella)
it's just that she has a really stupid idea of what's good for her children, and she's really kind of a stupid person
I also always enjoy how Cersei's good at taking power but she's really, really bad at actually using it
Not knowing how it all ends wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
It would suck, but we've still gotten a lot of entertainment out of the series up to now. Not getting the end doesn't negate all that.
I actually do think Cersei's chapters made her more sympathetic, though
they prove that she really is just evil and paranoid to the point of insanity, but they also indicate that most of it originates from her love for her children (and a lot of the insanity is bound up in Joffrey's death and her terror of what might happen to Tommen/Myrcella)
it's just that she has a really stupid idea of what's good for her children, and she's really kind of a stupid person
I also always enjoy how Cersei's good at taking power but she's really, really bad at actually using it
Also her self serving ideals and spoiled attitude obviously come straight from her father. It's no coincidence that the smartest and kindest of the Lannister kids was the one rejected by Tywin, and learning about Cersei's psyche helped drive the point home that no, Tywin's ideals aren't sustainable, because this is what those ideals instilled from an early age ultimately create. You can't destroy every threat, because then you have no one to tell you your wrong.
Book 4 is slow because it's mostly just showing the mass suffering and privation that comes in the aftermath of a civil war.
And without the war there's no overarching plot, just the individual goals of the individual characters.
I actually do think Cersei's chapters made her more sympathetic, though
they prove that she really is just evil and paranoid to the point of insanity, but they also indicate that most of it originates from her love for her children (and a lot of the insanity is bound up in Joffrey's death and her terror of what might happen to Tommen/Myrcella)
it's just that she has a really stupid idea of what's good for her children, and she's really kind of a stupid person
I also always enjoy how Cersei's good at taking power but she's really, really bad at actually using it
Also her self serving ideals and spoiled attitude obviously come straight from her father. It's no coincidence that the smartest and kindest of the Lannister kids was the one rejected by Tywin, and learning about Cersei's psyche helped drive the point home that no, Tywin's ideals aren't sustainable, because this is what those ideals instilled from an early age ultimately create. You can't destroy every threat, because then you have no one to tell you your wrong.
But Tyrion himself notes that he's the one most like Tywin
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Infracted @scherbchen (2 points for 30 days) for "Disallowed phrase: Prohibited phrase "desu""
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Darkstar though, he is the worst.
Bran
But he is not a White Walker
I imagine him spending a lot of time figuring out the logistsics of wrapping up all the lose ends and various character arcs, while at the same time he keeps coming up with all these new characters he wants to introduce
it really felt towards the end of Dance like he was starting to pare down and/or combine different plot threads, which should avoid or limit future knots
There's not a lot of character development though. Cersei's plot in particular takes a lot of time to tell us that Cersei would be a bad queen and is a pretty unpleasant person. The scales falling from Jaime's eyes seems like the most important thing that happened in her plot. Brienne's character is still Honourable And Good At Fighting. I enjoyed Arya's plot a lot, but found the end point frustrating. Presumably it's going to be two books until we find out what the fuck happened there, ditto Brienne's almost literal cliffhanger
Well, I suppose I missed that! I should really be less surprised when that happens with the books I read. The first time I read Fellowship of the Ring, I completely missed when Strider revealed himself to be Aragorn, and only realized my mistake when I read the summary before starting The Two Towers. I spent a loooooot of Fellowship wondering where Strider went off to, because he was so much more intriguing than the new guy.
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no, it's
As a show watcher, I'm not sure what a
Maybe I should read the books.
I don't think this is really a spoiler for the point you're at now, but just to be safe:
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you got me
it's Darkstar
plus Ser Waymar died with balls of steel
Dance with me then
The Royce is Our Choice
Well...that's not entirely true. When Martin originally released AFFC, he said that he was splitting it and DWD into the separate parts because of "BIG BOOKS CAN'T BE PUBLISHED" reasons, but that the follow up to AFFC would come out in one year, and that it was already done, edited and ready for print. Just that the whole manuscript was too big. So, COMPROMISE.
Only. 6 years later.
So that could also contribute a bit to the hatred of AFFC. I know that on my 2nd read through, I hated the book much less, and that most of my hatred was that my I had to wait another year six years before I actually got some resolution for my favorite plot lines.
Someone did the math somewhere, I forget where, that AFFC is like 23 or 27% Cersei's book, and the next highest was Arya with 11 or 12%, based on page count. And I honestly don't think ANYONE before book 4 was like OH PLEASE MR. MARTIN PLEASE GIVE ME MORE CERSEI.
It doesn't help that you're right, in that he takes an awfully long time to basically show us things we already knew - Cersei is pretty much a bitch, is a horrible queen, and is exactly what Tywin told her in the show - her problem isn't that she's a woman (which she blames for ALL her woes), her problem is that she is not nearly as smart as she thinks she is. Which we already knew. From 3 books worth of her nonsense.
Ah well. I'm stuck in this 'til the end.
I still think that the series is going to end with Gurm's death. I think he's going to have book 7 ready to be published, and he's only going to let it be published after he's already dead. And it's going to be 1,000 pages long. But on page 589, it's going to be:
And then I died.
And the rest of the pages will be blank.
E: I always put an additional S in my spoiler(s) tag. Every time.
On the other hand, I hugely admire him for saying "this medium doesn't require me to limit myself, and the books sell well. I'm going to put everything in that I want to". As a reader, I want an editor. As any kind of artist, I want him to keep doing what he's doing.
Did he call her fat? Man, I don't remember that. I agree that some of the best stuff for either of them was Jaime realising who she really is.
Also! This book had two of the grimmest pieces of sexual imagery I've ever read! Well done this book!
Roasted blue balls, served in trenchers, covered with pease. And when you bite into them, the grease and gravy drips heavily into your coarse, matted beard.
From what we know, he's already heavily edited. There are entire viewpoints and chapters that have been stripped out of the previous books, and may never be published. Some of the work may or may not be repurposed for the ASOIF Silmarillion or side stories that he is contracted for once the series wraps up, but who knows if/when that will ever happen. FYI, he has left explicit instructions that should he pass, anything that isn't published (notes, manuscripts, drafts, etc.) is to be destroyed. So there is no chance of anything being published posthumously.
You know what's sad is that should, god forbid, that actually happen, people will be more pissed off that he didn't finish than that he passed away. They'll call it something stupid like the Red Publication.
And if the HBO series never concludes, there's every chance that Dan and Dave would respect his wishes and simply never tell anyone what happens at the end.
Could you imagine? Never knowing how this whole damn thing ends?
it's just that she has a really stupid idea of what's good for her children, and she's really kind of a stupid person
I also always enjoy how Cersei's good at taking power but she's really, really bad at actually using it
I'm fairly certain
It would suck, but we've still gotten a lot of entertainment out of the series up to now. Not getting the end doesn't negate all that.
There are several references to her gaining weight. Including one where she is thinking about how all her dresses are getting tighter.
Back when I was reading it I wondered if maybe she got pregnant from Lancel or one of the Kettleblacks.
And without the war there's no overarching plot, just the individual goals of the individual characters.
But Tyrion himself notes that he's the one most like Tywin