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George R.R. Martin sends his regards. [GoT]

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Posts

  • GethGeth Legion Perseus VeilRegistered User, Moderator, Penny Arcade Staff, Vanilla Staff vanilla
    Information propagation is slow. Many voices speak at once. We do not understand how you function without consensus, @scherbchen.
    Infracted @scherbchen (2 points for 30 days) for "Disallowed phrase: Prohibited phrase "desu""

  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    yeah ok dude we're kind of over you now

  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2013
    I always kind of figured AFFC and DWF will be more enjoyable when the series is over and we know what all of this buildup is all about. Right now you're just left with blue balls though.

    Raijin Quickfoot on
  • CelloCello Registered User regular
    Man, why do people think that Jon Snow is going to be the King of the White Walkers? I always figured that role would go to someone like Bran. I mean, he got an escort to somewhere incredibly far north BY a white walker. He's able to warg harder than anyone else and possess heart trees and everything. Admittedly, I've only read the books once, so I might be forgetting some key buildup to Jon becoming that instead of Azor Azhai but...

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  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    Doran Martell is pretty awesome and I like Arianne too.

    Darkstar though, he is the worst.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • KaplarKaplar On Google MapsRegistered User regular
    This is probably a stupid question, but why is the three-eyed raven so important?

  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    Cello wrote: »
    Man, why do people think that Jon Snow is going to be the King of the White Walkers? I always figured that role would go to someone like Bran. I mean, he got an escort to somewhere incredibly far north BY a white walker. He's able to warg harder than anyone else and possess heart trees and everything. Admittedly, I've only read the books once, so I might be forgetting some key buildup to Jon becoming that instead of Azor Azhai but...

    Bran
    Coldhands is, I guess, a wight? But he seems to be a very distinct entity from the other wights
    But he is not a White Walker

  • GoldenSeducerGoldenSeducer AAAAAUGH!! Registered User regular
    Kaplar wrote: »
    This is probably a stupid question, but why is the three-eyed raven so important?
    IIRC, the three-eyed raven is more or less the projection of the last true Greenseer. He's reaching out to Bran because Bran is way more in touch with his warg powers and would be the best to be the Greenseer's successor.

  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    I finished feast, and I have a long hospital appointment tomorrow to make a start on dance. I'm almost certain that the end of feast is the result of the publisher screaming "finish the fucking sentence you're on and ship it"

  • TurambarTurambar Independent Registered User regular
    I'm sure the books would come out at a faster pace if Martin would just admit to himself that he's not going to finish the series in seven books

    I imagine him spending a lot of time figuring out the logistsics of wrapping up all the lose ends and various character arcs, while at the same time he keeps coming up with all these new characters he wants to introduce

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  • UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    I think things will go better for him now

    it really felt towards the end of Dance like he was starting to pare down and/or combine different plot threads, which should avoid or limit future knots

  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    Having finished and knowing what to expect from it, I didn't mind Feast too much once I stopped expecting something to happen. It's a book full of character moments rather than full of plot. If I'd read it when it came out, knowing that there'd be three years until the next one, I'd probably have hated it. As it is, knowing I can read the next one whenever I want, it's not too bad.

    There's not a lot of character development though. Cersei's plot in particular takes a lot of time to tell us that Cersei would be a bad queen and is a pretty unpleasant person. The scales falling from Jaime's eyes seems like the most important thing that happened in her plot. Brienne's character is still Honourable And Good At Fighting. I enjoyed Arya's plot a lot, but found the end point frustrating. Presumably it's going to be two books until we find out what the fuck happened there, ditto Brienne's almost literal cliffhanger

  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    That line about the end of A Feast For Crows being a 'literal cliffhanger'... well, that's a pretty great joke. I laughed. Pretty hard.

  • CelloCello Registered User regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    Cello wrote: »
    Man, why do people think that Jon Snow is going to be the King of the White Walkers? I always figured that role would go to someone like Bran. I mean, he got an escort to somewhere incredibly far north BY a white walker. He's able to warg harder than anyone else and possess heart trees and everything. Admittedly, I've only read the books once, so I might be forgetting some key buildup to Jon becoming that instead of Azor Azhai but...

    Bran
    Coldhands is, I guess, a wight? But he seems to be a very distinct entity from the other wights
    But he is not a White Walker

    Well, I suppose I missed that! I should really be less surprised when that happens with the books I read. The first time I read Fellowship of the Ring, I completely missed when Strider revealed himself to be Aragorn, and only realized my mistake when I read the summary before starting The Two Towers. I spent a loooooot of Fellowship wondering where Strider went off to, because he was so much more intriguing than the new guy.

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  • LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    Isn't it basically surmised that Coldhands is
    Bran's uncle?

  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    Langly wrote: »
    Isn't it basically surmised that Coldhands is
    Bran's uncle?

    no, it's
    Waymar Royce

  • LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    I don't think that's true at all!

  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    I have never heard otherwise

  • KaplarKaplar On Google MapsRegistered User regular
    Kaplar wrote: »
    This is probably a stupid question, but why is the three-eyed raven so important?
    IIRC, the three-eyed raven is more or less the projection of the last true Greenseer. He's reaching out to Bran because Bran is way more in touch with his warg powers and would be the best to be the Greenseer's successor.

    As a show watcher, I'm not sure what a
    Greenseer
    is.

    Maybe I should read the books.

  • CelloCello Registered User regular
    Kaplar wrote: »
    Kaplar wrote: »
    This is probably a stupid question, but why is the three-eyed raven so important?
    IIRC, the three-eyed raven is more or less the projection of the last true Greenseer. He's reaching out to Bran because Bran is way more in touch with his warg powers and would be the best to be the Greenseer's successor.

    As a show watcher, I'm not sure what a
    Greenseer
    is.

    Maybe I should read the books.

    I don't think this is really a spoiler for the point you're at now, but just to be safe:
    The dreams Bran has with the crow, Jojen, etc., they're called "Green Dreams". People who have those dreams are called Greenseers.

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  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    Langly wrote: »
    I don't think that's true at all!

    you got me

    it's Darkstar
    really though I just kind of want it to be Waymar Royce because Benjen Stark is balls-out obvious

    plus Ser Waymar died with balls of steel

    Dance with me then

  • GoldenSeducerGoldenSeducer AAAAAUGH!! Registered User regular
    Sorry! I probably should've labeled it as book spoilers.

  • Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt proud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelo dorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered User regular
    Langly wrote: »
    I don't think that's true at all!

    you got me

    it's Darkstar
    really though I just kind of want it to be Waymar Royce because Benjen Stark is balls-out obvious

    plus Ser Waymar died with balls of steel

    Dance with me then

    The Royce is Our Choice

    f2ojmwh3geue.png
  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    The Royce is noice

  • JustTeeJustTee Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Tube wrote: »
    Having finished and knowing what to expect from it, I didn't mind Feast too much once I stopped expecting something to happen. It's a book full of character moments rather than full of plot. If I'd read it when it came out, knowing that there'd be three years until the next one, I'd probably have hated it. As it is, knowing I can read the next one whenever I want, it's not too bad.

    There's not a lot of character development though. Cersei's plot in particular takes a lot of time to tell us that Cersei would be a bad queen and is a pretty unpleasant person. The scales falling from Jaime's eyes seems like the most important thing that happened in her plot. Brienne's character is still Honourable And Good At Fighting. I enjoyed Arya's plot a lot, but found the end point frustrating. Presumably it's going to be two books until we find out what the fuck happened there, ditto Brienne's almost literal cliffhanger

    Well...that's not entirely true. When Martin originally released AFFC, he said that he was splitting it and DWD into the separate parts because of "BIG BOOKS CAN'T BE PUBLISHED" reasons, but that the follow up to AFFC would come out in one year, and that it was already done, edited and ready for print. Just that the whole manuscript was too big. So, COMPROMISE.

    Only. 6 years later.

    So that could also contribute a bit to the hatred of AFFC. I know that on my 2nd read through, I hated the book much less, and that most of my hatred was that my I had to wait another year six years before I actually got some resolution for my favorite plot lines.

    Someone did the math somewhere, I forget where, that AFFC is like 23 or 27% Cersei's book, and the next highest was Arya with 11 or 12%, based on page count. And I honestly don't think ANYONE before book 4 was like OH PLEASE MR. MARTIN PLEASE GIVE ME MORE CERSEI.

    It doesn't help that you're right, in that he takes an awfully long time to basically show us things we already knew - Cersei is pretty much a bitch, is a horrible queen, and is exactly what Tywin told her in the show - her problem isn't that she's a woman (which she blames for ALL her woes), her problem is that she is not nearly as smart as she thinks she is. Which we already knew. From 3 books worth of her nonsense.

    Ah well. I'm stuck in this 'til the end.

    I still think that the series is going to end with Gurm's death. I think he's going to have book 7 ready to be published, and he's only going to let it be published after he's already dead. And it's going to be 1,000 pages long. But on page 589, it's going to be:
    And Tyrion looked upon the three dragons, whip in hand. And they looked back upon him, and seemed to take his measure, waiting for his comm...

    And then I died.

    And the rest of the pages will be blank.

    E: I always put an additional S in my spoiler(s) tag. Every time.

    JustTee on
    Diagnosed with AML on 6/1/12. Read about it: www.effleukemia.com
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    On the one hand, part of me desperately wishes George R.R Martin would hire an edit to slash and burn some of the fat from his manuscripts, and maybe even get the fucking things released in a timely fashion.

    On the other hand, I hugely admire him for saying "this medium doesn't require me to limit myself, and the books sell well. I'm going to put everything in that I want to". As a reader, I want an editor. As any kind of artist, I want him to keep doing what he's doing.

  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    re: Cersei, I actually was looking forward to Cersei chapters because I thought we'd learn more about her motivations and how she became who she is. Bearing in mind that in Game of Thrones, Jaime was a cackling cartoon villain and The Hound was a snarling monster, I thought I'd end up feeling a lot of sympathy for her or at least have my preconceptions challenged. If anything, she became more cartoonish, and even the chapter that dealt with her being
    raped by Robert
    didn't treat her with much sympathy.

  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    I was looking forward to the Cersei chapters...

  • SassoriSassori Registered User regular
    Book 4
    I did really enjoy any Jaime chapters where he was looking at Ceresi thinking "She sure is drunk/fat/dumb"

  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    Sassori wrote: »
    Book 4
    I did really enjoy any Jaime chapters where he was looking at Ceresi thinking "She sure is drunk/fat/dumb"

    Did he call her fat? Man, I don't remember that. I agree that some of the best stuff for either of them was Jaime realising who she really is.

    Also! This book had two of the grimmest pieces of sexual imagery I've ever read! Well done this book!

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    I always kind of figured AFFC and DWF will be more enjoyable when the series is over and we know what all of this buildup is all about. Right now you're just left with blue balls though.

    Roasted blue balls, served in trenchers, covered with pease. And when you bite into them, the grease and gravy drips heavily into your coarse, matted beard.

    Tube wrote: »
    On the one hand, part of me desperately wishes George R.R Martin would hire an edit to slash and burn some of the fat from his manuscripts, and maybe even get the fucking things released in a timely fashion.

    On the other hand, I hugely admire him for saying "this medium doesn't require me to limit myself, and the books sell well. I'm going to put everything in that I want to". As a reader, I want an editor. As any kind of artist, I want him to keep doing what he's doing.

    From what we know, he's already heavily edited. There are entire viewpoints and chapters that have been stripped out of the previous books, and may never be published. Some of the work may or may not be repurposed for the ASOIF Silmarillion or side stories that he is contracted for once the series wraps up, but who knows if/when that will ever happen. FYI, he has left explicit instructions that should he pass, anything that isn't published (notes, manuscripts, drafts, etc.) is to be destroyed. So there is no chance of anything being published posthumously.

    You know what's sad is that should, god forbid, that actually happen, people will be more pissed off that he didn't finish than that he passed away. They'll call it something stupid like the Red Publication.

    And if the HBO series never concludes, there's every chance that Dan and Dave would respect his wishes and simply never tell anyone what happens at the end.

    Could you imagine? Never knowing how this whole damn thing ends?

  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    I heard that he's already told the producers the broad strokes of how to finish the series if he karks it.

  • NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    Wait, I heard the opposite that in fact he gave specific details to the show runners about how it should end if he dies

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  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    I actually do think Cersei's chapters made her more sympathetic, though
    they prove that she really is just evil and paranoid to the point of insanity, but they also indicate that most of it originates from her love for her children (and a lot of the insanity is bound up in Joffrey's death and her terror of what might happen to Tommen/Myrcella)

    it's just that she has a really stupid idea of what's good for her children, and she's really kind of a stupid person


    I also always enjoy how Cersei's good at taking power but she's really, really bad at actually using it

  • SassoriSassori Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Sassori wrote: »
    Book 4
    I did really enjoy any Jaime chapters where he was looking at Ceresi thinking "She sure is drunk/fat/dumb"

    Did he call her fat? Man, I don't remember that. I agree that some of the best stuff for either of them was Jaime realising who she really is.

    Also! This book had two of the grimmest pieces of sexual imagery I've ever read! Well done this book!

    I'm fairly certain
    That he mentions at one point that she's been gaining weight from all the drinking.

  • NeoTomaNeoToma Registered User regular
    Not knowing how it all ends wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
    It would suck, but we've still gotten a lot of entertainment out of the series up to now. Not getting the end doesn't negate all that.

  • HoA-playerHoA-player Registered User regular
    Sassori wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    Sassori wrote: »
    Book 4
    I did really enjoy any Jaime chapters where he was looking at Ceresi thinking "She sure is drunk/fat/dumb"

    Did he call her fat? Man, I don't remember that. I agree that some of the best stuff for either of them was Jaime realising who she really is.

    Also! This book had two of the grimmest pieces of sexual imagery I've ever read! Well done this book!

    I'm fairly certain
    That he mentions at one point that she's been gaining weight from all the drinking.

    There are several references to her gaining weight. Including one where she is thinking about how all her dresses are getting tighter.

    Back when I was reading it I wondered if maybe she got pregnant from Lancel or one of the Kettleblacks.

  • masterofmetroidmasterofmetroid Have you ever looked at a world and seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered User regular
    .
    I actually do think Cersei's chapters made her more sympathetic, though
    they prove that she really is just evil and paranoid to the point of insanity, but they also indicate that most of it originates from her love for her children (and a lot of the insanity is bound up in Joffrey's death and her terror of what might happen to Tommen/Myrcella)

    it's just that she has a really stupid idea of what's good for her children, and she's really kind of a stupid person


    I also always enjoy how Cersei's good at taking power but she's really, really bad at actually using it
    Also her self serving ideals and spoiled attitude obviously come straight from her father. It's no coincidence that the smartest and kindest of the Lannister kids was the one rejected by Tywin, and learning about Cersei's psyche helped drive the point home that no, Tywin's ideals aren't sustainable, because this is what those ideals instilled from an early age ultimately create. You can't destroy every threat, because then you have no one to tell you your wrong.

  • AvrahamAvraham Registered User regular
    Book 4 is slow because it's mostly just showing the mass suffering and privation that comes in the aftermath of a civil war.
    And without the war there's no overarching plot, just the individual goals of the individual characters.

    :bz: :bz: :bzz:
  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    .
    I actually do think Cersei's chapters made her more sympathetic, though
    they prove that she really is just evil and paranoid to the point of insanity, but they also indicate that most of it originates from her love for her children (and a lot of the insanity is bound up in Joffrey's death and her terror of what might happen to Tommen/Myrcella)

    it's just that she has a really stupid idea of what's good for her children, and she's really kind of a stupid person


    I also always enjoy how Cersei's good at taking power but she's really, really bad at actually using it
    Also her self serving ideals and spoiled attitude obviously come straight from her father. It's no coincidence that the smartest and kindest of the Lannister kids was the one rejected by Tywin, and learning about Cersei's psyche helped drive the point home that no, Tywin's ideals aren't sustainable, because this is what those ideals instilled from an early age ultimately create. You can't destroy every threat, because then you have no one to tell you your wrong.

    But Tyrion himself notes that he's the one most like Tywin

This discussion has been closed.