Actual grownups need jobs. There are, despite a growing economy, a limited number of jobs available at any given time. It's like a giant game of musical chairs, and some poor fuckers are going to get stuck standing (or, in other words, working at places like Wal-Mart or Wal-Mart specifically).
This is somewhat technical, but I love me some economics, so here goes: The current unemployment rate is pretty near optimal, meaning that anyone that wants a job can get one and no one (barring extraordinary circumstances) is forced to work in any job they do not wish to. 5% (I think that's roughly our current unemployment rate) is just about the number you expect at "full employment" where just short of all jobs are filled by people who want to be working them.
Now, this isn't to ignore the transition costs that may keep people in a job they don't like because they can't afford to risk quiting, but that's going to exist no matter what else is going on.
Long story short, and really tangential to what the issue at hand, I think it IS fair to say that, as much as is ever humanly possible, most people who are currently working at walmart are doing so because they want to.
This is somewhat true, and I'd agree that at the moment our unemployment rate is pretty damn low (I instantly regretted that "0%" comment, because I too know enough about economics to know that "full employment" occurs slightly above that).
But of course, I also learned in economics that unemployment figures often fail to take into account both underemployment (either lack of hours or employment well below one's education level) as well as those who've left the job market because they were unable to find a job.
So yeah, since you threw that "as much as is humanly possible" part in there, I'm inclined to agree with you. But keeping in mind that that 5% unemployment rate is only achieved with Wal-Mart as a major US employer I think imbalanced's attitude is largely horseshit.
What were they doing the whole time? Why is it Walmart's fault that people in this world are lazy idiots? Guess what. I'm not even 30 and I don't EVER have to work there for any reason. It's not like I came from rich parents. I'm from Walmart Country. Arkansas isn't exactly the top 10 economies in the USA, yet I didn't feel the need (nor did anyone I know) to work at Walmart.
Yes, because the only people working at Wal-Mart who don't enjoy it are "lazy idiots." Also, Wal-Mart's policies and practices affect the entire retail industry, and as I said when you open it up to retail as a whole some people are quite honestly going to get "forced" (though lack of other viable options) into such jobs.
However, I'm not expecting to hear much more than libertarian propaganda out of you so I'll be unsurprised when you disagree with another dose of healthy rhetoric.
mcdermott on
0
Options
ShogunHair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get alongRegistered Userregular
edited August 2007
I hate Wal-Mart, but I go there occasionally because I refuse to preorder stuff and they actually carry copies of the game.
There's nothing I hate more than people petitioning because they don't want to be associated with a Walmart, yet have five Starbucks within a three mile radius. "Oh but Starbucks is nicer, and has quality products!" Fuck you.
Well fuck dude, "Starbucks has better products and a nice atmosphere and they treat their suppliers fairly and their employees generously" is pretty much the whole point. What more do you want?
Irond Will on
0
Options
Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
That is so much crap I don't know where to start. I had several friends who worked at Walmart, but none of them felt like they HAD to work there. Most of them were in junior high or high school and didn't even expect more than minimum wage, much less benefits. A high school diploma will get you a job outside of Walmart. Seriously.
Wal-Mart: We're Not That Bad To Work For If You're A High-School Student Living In Some Rural Shithole
So yeah, since you threw that "as much as is humanly possible" part in there, I'm inclined to agree with you. But keeping in mind that that 5% unemployment rate is only achieved with Wal-Mart as a major US employer I think imbalanced's attitude is largely horseshit.
Ok, taking as a given the fact that the US economy is near or at full employment and therefore it is as easy as it currently can be made to move between jobs at will, your caveat that this is only the case with Walmart as a major US employer is irrelevant (at least as far as the point you want to make goes).
If there is full employment and Walmart was treating employees "too" poorly, their employees would leave in sufficient numbers and they would be unable to find enough replacements. This would force Walmart's hand and make them treat employees better (in terms of the a more general "treatment" and more specifically wages and benefits). If that ISN'T happening, the thing we have to assume is that Walmart employees are, if not "happy", then at least sufficiently satisfied with their work relationship to remain employed there.
I'm not in the least saying that Walmart treats their employees well, and I'm certainly not taking the position that workers in shitty jobs deserve what they get (I've been on the shit end of life's stick enough to know what a crock that is) but the fact is, in purely objective terms, the exchange with Walmart treating workers the way it does, and the workers being of the caliber and productivity they are, is a free one both sides are happy with.
Wal-Mart: We're Not That Bad To Work For If You're A High-School Student Living In Some Rural Shithole
You'd be amazed what isn't that bad for anyone in a rural shithole.
Maybe it's just locational bias, but I honestly think we could fix vast swathes of what's wrong with America if we just found a way to improve economic transitions, because the majority of what seems to go wrong in poor neighborhoods is simply that they're poor and no one has any options.
Yes, because the only people working at Wal-Mart who don't enjoy it are "lazy idiots." Also, Wal-Mart's policies and practices affect the entire retail industry, and as I said when you open it up to retail as a whole some people are quite honestly going to get "forced" (though lack of other viable options) into such jobs.
However, I'm not expecting to hear much more than libertarian propaganda out of you so I'll be unsurprised when you disagree with another dose of healthy rhetoric.
I have yet to hear about one person who's actually worked at Walmart and got trapped by it, so this theoretical person is bullshit. Have you worked at Walmart and have no choice but to continue working there? Has anyone in this thread? No? Then you've got no legs to stand on.
People demonize pretty much everything nowadays with power, so it makes sense that the retail sector would be the same, but damn. I have never heard so many people spit acid about something that hasn't affected them AT ALL in their own lives.
I have yet to hear about one person who's actually worked at Walmart and got trapped by it, so this theoretical person is bullshit. Have you worked at Walmart and have no choice but to continue working there? Has anyone in this thread? No? Then you've got no legs to stand on.
Me, the people I know, and the people in this thread (as well as the people they know) are not exactly a large or representative sample of the US population. But whatever.
I have never heard so many people spit acid about something that hasn't affected them AT ALL in their own lives.
Being the single largest retailer in the US, the largest grocer in the US, and the largest private employer in the world I'd say the effects of Wal-Marts policies and practices just might go beyond their employees and customers.
Being the single largest retailer in the US, the largest grocer in the US, and the largest private employer in the world I'd say the effects of Wal-Marts policies and practices just might go beyond their employees and customers.
Okay, name two ways. Wait, I'll make it easy. Name one way in which it has affected you personally.
I hate Wal-Mart, but I go there occasionally because I refuse to preorder stuff and they actually carry copies of the game.
I love that.
Most Wal-Mart shoppers will never buy the games I will buy there.
My dad picked up a PS3 from there, it was just sitting on the shelf.
Crazy
Being the single largest retailer in the US, the largest grocer in the US, and the largest private employer in the world I'd say the effects of Wal-Marts policies and practices just might go beyond their employees and customers.
Okay, name two ways. Wait, I'll make it easy. Name one way in which it has affected you personally.
General downward pressure on retail wages, due to the fact that at least some of the policies people complain about allow them to undercut competition. I worked in retail.
Additionally, their low wages and substandard benefits (as well as policies designed to limit who gets those benefits) result in a disproportionate number of their employees ending up on various forms of public assistance. I pay taxes.
No, it's not like Wal-Mart sent a man over to rape me in my sleep or anything. But to act as though the policies and practices of a company as dominant as Wal-Mart don't effect those besides their customers and employees is pretty fucktarded.
mcdermott on
0
Options
GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
I wish people would leave Walmart alone. Yeah I get it. Some people that shop there are crazy, some people that work there don't get huge benefits. Who the fuck cares. The great thing about a free market economy is you can A) not shop there, and not work there.
Bullshit. Yes, in theory any given individual can choose not to work there. But until we hit 0% unemployment, at some point some people will end up effectively "forced" to work there (or, you know, starve).
That is so much crap I don't know where to start. I had several friends who worked at Walmart, but none of them felt like they HAD to work there. Most of them were in junior high or high school and didn't even expect more than minimum wage, much less benefits. A high school diploma will get you a job outside of Walmart. Seriously.
Keep in mind I grew up in Arkansas, where Walmart DEFINED a "real" city. Despite that, there ARE other jobs out there. Nobody HAS to work ANYWHERE. To be forced to work there is the epitome of laziness.
After six years of finding nothing but seasonal jobs? Yes. Yes, I 'have' to work there, at least for now.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
Being the single largest retailer in the US, the largest grocer in the US, and the largest private employer in the world I'd say the effects of Wal-Marts policies and practices just might go beyond their employees and customers.
Okay, name two ways. Wait, I'll make it easy. Name one way in which it has affected you personally.
General downward pressure on retail wages, due to the fact that at least some of the policies people complain about allow them to undercut competition. I worked in retail.
Additionally, their low wages and substandard benefits (as well as policies designed to limit who gets those benefits) result in a disproportionate number of their employees ending up on various forms of public assistance. I pay taxes.
No, it's not like Wal-Mart sent a man over to rape me in my sleep or anything. But to act as though the policies and practices of a company as dominant as Wal-Mart don't effect those besides their customers and employees is pretty fucktarded.
They also have a general downward pressure on retail prices. Fuck, I wish a decent Walmart was within the DC metropolitan area. Things here are so overpriced I don't know where to begin. To note, I have had at least three other jobs that paid LESS than what Walmart was offering, and I refused to work there because of the standard they provide. That said, I still think the company deserves props for trying to lower prices and increase the ability of people to get decent product. Nobody goes into Walmart without knowing how the company operates. Just look at the office that the CEO works in, that's a testament to how thrifty they are to insure low prices.
Was I trapped there? nah. Did I feel like it? hell yeah.
See, at the time, this town had maybe a population of 5k
The walmart wasn't even a super center.
I was there when they built the walmart and funny things happened since wal mart came in. I'll name a few.
Very few local businesses shut down, the ones that did were predatory in thier pricing anyway. (you'll pay what I make you pay and you'll like it!)
lots of new businesses followed wal-mart into the area. Mcdonalds, Taco bell, KFC, etc.. a lot of major fast food chains (though this was about the time I had gotten laid off due to 9/11 and after I left the town)
A lot of GOOD has happened for that town in terms of grown, when you take a town of 5000 people and one business can employ a good portion of them (iets say 200 employees? sound safe?)
you are breeding money into that economy, and furthermore, with thier employee discount, they were spending less on shit that they already bought from other stores (in spokane, a 2 hour drive away)
and god, they have profit sharing and stock options (price matching) for thier employees, I was rolling in cash working for them, I had no issues with my bills, and since then well, I haven't quite found a job that competes with that kind of pay/benefit options.
I hated the work I did though, I'm inherently lazy and they made me work my ass off, literally, i went into that job weighing 330, and 2 years later when I got laid off I was 265. (im 6'6)
All in all, that job was really good for me, so again, I don't think people know what the fuck they are talking about when it comes to wal-mart.
Fact of the matter is, small business owners got all up in arms that they were being undersold and they started the nasty rumor that wal-mart was a poisonous, evil deity and some crazy rights activist went to town with it and it got so far to press and to the media and people believe everything they see on the tv if it comes from a news person for some reason.
I had a friend who started working at a Walmart neighborhood market when he was 16. He kept his nose clean, showed up on time, and eventually worked his way up. Within a month after graduating from high school he was an assistant manager. Within a year after that he was going to travel to set up Walmarts with semi expenses paid. He was 20.
After he got back he finished up a business administration degree at the local community college. He now is the head guy at the place he started at, at the age of 23. He makes more than me. Last time we talked he said he was up for the district spot. That would make him a district manager at 24-25. (Cant remember his birthday.)
To those who say that walmart has unfair treatments of their employees I offer his story as an example of how "unfair" they are. They hire the retarded and elderly and pay them alright enough... It is very hard for some of them to find -any- job. They hire night crews regularly, and it makes a decent summer job.
I think the walmart problem is really more of a result of the global economy and the sign of our times. We are a service oriented economy and convenience is what we look for.
I will now use an alteration from something said by my friend V:
Good evening, America. Allow me first to apologize for this wake up. I do, like many of you, appreciate the comforts of cheap food and other things Walmart provides. I enjoy them as much as any bloke. But in the spirit of community, thereby those people we have forgotten about of the past usually associated with the old guy down the street who used to run the convenience store, a celebration of friendship, I thought we could mark this association, a thing that is sadly no longer cherished, by taking some time out of our daily lives to help each other and have a little chat. There are of course those who do not want us to speak. I suspect even now, grumblings are being shouted inside their minds, and men with no introspection will soon be on their way to bash me and claim it is Walmart's fault. Why? Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of introspection and evaluation, communities will always retain their power so long as we support each other. Communities offer the means to tolerate each other and live better lives, and for those who will heed this, the enunciation of truth, you too can have a community. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to, to not deal with big business and spend as you saw fit, you now have Walmart and other businesses coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they are wrong for doing so, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were frugal and cheap. Who wouldn't be? Gas prices rising, insurance costs, those luxury items you just had to buy and did since you have no self control. There were and are a myriad of excuses which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Greed got the best of you, and in your panic to save a buck you turned to the now ruler of cheap prices and low wages, Walmart. It promised you cheap prices, it promised you roll back prices, and all it demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent. Tonight you sought to end that silence. Tonight I destroyed the blind ignorance you may have had, to remind this country of what it has forgotten. Less than fifty years ago great citizens wished to have a sense of community forever in the places they resided. Their hope was to remind the world that fairness, community, justice, and freedom are more than words, they are perspectives. So if you've seen nothing, if the crimes of these businesses remain unknown to you then I would suggest you allow them to keep their practices. But if you see what I see, if you feel as I feel, and if you would seek as I seek, then I ask you to stop shopping at Walmart so damn much and beside me one year from tonight, perhaps have a community that did something, and together we shall have a community that shall never, ever be subject to businesses like this again...
The Above passage, albeit altered, was taken from V for Vendetta. Sorry it was so long. It was long in the movie.
-Stork, out. (Hopefully before the flames and bashes.)
I think the walmart problem is really more of a result of the global economy and the sign of our times. We are a service oriented economy and convenience is what we look for.
This. Truth.
Regarding the quality of its products, Walmart doesn't suck because it is owned by evil capitalist assholes. It sucks because the consumer has low standards and is willing to settle for inferior products for the sake of convenience.
I think the walmart problem is really more of a result of the global economy and the sign of our times. We are a service oriented economy and convenience is what we look for.
This. Truth.
Regarding the quality of its products, Walmart doesn't suck because it is owned by evil capitalist assholes. It sucks because the consumer has low standards and is willing to settle for inferior products for the sake of convenience.
Define "low standards". When I pay low prices, I know what I'm getting and pleased that I'm getting it cheap. Most of the time you really don't get your money's worth trying to be buy "quality".
I think the walmart problem is really more of a result of the global economy and the sign of our times. We are a service oriented economy and convenience is what we look for.
This. Truth.
Regarding the quality of its products, Walmart doesn't suck because it is owned by evil capitalist assholes. It sucks because the consumer has low standards and is willing to settle for inferior products for the sake of convenience.
Define "low standards". When I pay low prices, I know what I'm getting and pleased that I'm getting it cheap. Most of the time you really don't get your money's worth trying to be buy "quality".
Suppose you need a vacuum cleaner.
Are you going to get the SuperSucker 5000 XT Mega Extra Amazing (Advanced Version) for five hundred bucks, or the HomeMaid Vacuum Cleaner, which is 40 bucks?
Chances are you'll get the latter one because even though it's lower quality, it "does the job".
What's wrong with Walmart? I worked at one for a few months years ago and got treated really well, everyone was friendly to work with.
The only problem I have now is the only time it seems you can ever go into one is late at night, and it seems everyone has caught on to that idea. And the fact that apparently they don't(?) schedule cashiers and such that the corporate heads do it, so when you go in at 2am and there's 2 cashiers on and 30 people in each line it's not actually the managers fault.
I think the walmart problem is really more of a result of the global economy and the sign of our times. We are a service oriented economy and convenience is what we look for.
This. Truth.
Regarding the quality of its products, Walmart doesn't suck because it is owned by evil capitalist assholes. It sucks because the consumer has low standards and is willing to settle for inferior products for the sake of convenience.
Define "low standards". When I pay low prices, I know what I'm getting and pleased that I'm getting it cheap. Most of the time you really don't get your money's worth trying to be buy "quality".
Suppose you need a vacuum cleaner.
Are you going to get the SuperSucker 5000 XT Mega Extra Amazing (Advanced Version) for five hundred bucks, or the HomeMaid Vacuum Cleaner, which is 40 bucks?
Chances are you'll get the latter one because even though it's lower quality, it "does the job".
So what's your point? If it does the job, it does the job. That's the point - the price difference for something that does the job is so huge that I can afford to experiment with getting the cheaper one first, and frequently, you win out of that. Or, in other cases, it's expendable for difficult jobs as is the case with drills.
So what's your point? If it does the job, it does the job. That's the point - the price difference for something that does the job is so huge that I can afford to experiment with getting the cheaper one first, and frequently, you win out of that. Or, in other cases, it's expendable for difficult jobs as is the case with drills.
My point is that "it does the job" is the reason -- or at least one of the most fundamental reasons -- why Walmart exists.
So what's your point? If it does the job, it does the job. That's the point - the price difference for something that does the job is so huge that I can afford to experiment with getting the cheaper one first, and frequently, you win out of that. Or, in other cases, it's expendable for difficult jobs as is the case with drills.
My point is that "it does the job" is the reason -- or at least one of the most fundamental reasons -- why Walmart exists.
Which begs the question as to why this is a bad thing? It's not my job as the consumer to enforce employee treatment standards. But then again I live in the land of Australia, where we took the bold move of not tying health insurance to what job you work.
And the fact that apparently they don't(?) schedule cashiers and such that the corporate heads do it, so when you go in at 2am and there's 2 cashiers on and 30 people in each line it's not actually the managers fault.
And the fact that apparently they don't(?) schedule cashiers and such that the corporate heads do it, so when you go in at 2am and there's 2 cashiers on and 30 people in each line it's not actually the managers fault.
So what's your point? If it does the job, it does the job. That's the point - the price difference for something that does the job is so huge that I can afford to experiment with getting the cheaper one first, and frequently, you win out of that. Or, in other cases, it's expendable for difficult jobs as is the case with drills.
My point is that "it does the job" is the reason -- or at least one of the most fundamental reasons -- why Walmart exists.
Which begs the question as to why this is a bad thing? It's not my job as the consumer to enforce employee treatment standards. But then again I live in the land of Australia, where we took the bold move of not tying health insurance to what job you work.
I never said it was a bad thing. I'm not anti-Walmart.
Which begs the question as to why this is a bad thing? It's not my job as the consumer to enforce employee treatment standards.
Most people have this attitude.
I find it disagreeable.
Why? It's the demand that government actually do some fucking governing. When I desperately need to buy some basic household necessities I don't want to extensively research the background of some companies to see if they're ethical employers, I want to know they should be and campaign that the body which should be doing this should be doing this. Hence why I am more concerned about the mechanics of WorkChoices then my various big shopping centers employment practices because one is going to beget the other in a very universal way.
And - anyway - employment practices was hardly the issue (nor is it really a clear cut general one as keeps being made out) - my point was, what's wrong with wanting the $40 vacuum cleaner? My success rate with cheap goods which work a long time is rather good, and I don't necessarily have $300 to spend on a freakin' vacuum cleaner.
Which begs the question as to why this is a bad thing? It's not my job as the consumer to enforce employee treatment standards.
Most people have this attitude.
I find it disagreeable.
Why? It's the demand that government actually do some fucking governing. When I desperately need to buy some basic household necessities I don't want to extensively research the background of some companies to see if they're ethical employers, I want to know they should be and campaign that the body which should be doing this should be doing this. Hence why I am more concerned about the mechanics of WorkChoices then my various big shopping centers employment practices because one is going to beget the other in a very universal way.
And - anyway - employment practices was hardly the issue (nor is it really a clear cut general one as keeps being made out) - my point was, what's wrong with wanting the $40 vacuum cleaner? My success rate with cheap goods which work a long time is rather good, and I don't necessarily have $300 to spend on a freakin' vacuum cleaner.
I will say again... there is a post with a long altered quote I wrote below. Maybe you should read it?
Which begs the question as to why this is a bad thing? It's not my job as the consumer to enforce employee treatment standards.
Most people have this attitude.
I find it disagreeable.
Why? It's the demand that government actually do some fucking governing. When I desperately need to buy some basic household necessities I don't want to extensively research the background of some companies to see if they're ethical employers, I want to know they should be and campaign that the body which should be doing this should be doing this. Hence why I am more concerned about the mechanics of WorkChoices then my various big shopping centers employment practices because one is going to beget the other in a very universal way.
And - anyway - employment practices was hardly the issue (nor is it really a clear cut general one as keeps being made out) - my point was, what's wrong with wanting the $40 vacuum cleaner? My success rate with cheap goods which work a long time is rather good, and I don't necessarily have $300 to spend on a freakin' vacuum cleaner.
I will say again... there is a post with a long altered quote I wrote below. Maybe you should read it?
The low prices set by walmart that a small business owner cannot match will eventually shut down the small business.
In a lot of smaller towns where wall mart has moved in there are various vacant buildings that were made so because of the above mentioned.
People lose their way of life, and we lose our sense of community, all to save a few bucks each trip to the store.
All of this was addressed.
Edit: They also tend to slightly raise prices after all the other stores close down.
Yeah except I tend to seriously wonder how many people actually notice this. And then of course, there's the much larger towns where it just doesn't matter, and of course, the cynical city-dwellers like myself.
Posts
This is somewhat true, and I'd agree that at the moment our unemployment rate is pretty damn low (I instantly regretted that "0%" comment, because I too know enough about economics to know that "full employment" occurs slightly above that).
But of course, I also learned in economics that unemployment figures often fail to take into account both underemployment (either lack of hours or employment well below one's education level) as well as those who've left the job market because they were unable to find a job.
So yeah, since you threw that "as much as is humanly possible" part in there, I'm inclined to agree with you. But keeping in mind that that 5% unemployment rate is only achieved with Wal-Mart as a major US employer I think imbalanced's attitude is largely horseshit.
Yes, because the only people working at Wal-Mart who don't enjoy it are "lazy idiots." Also, Wal-Mart's policies and practices affect the entire retail industry, and as I said when you open it up to retail as a whole some people are quite honestly going to get "forced" (though lack of other viable options) into such jobs.
However, I'm not expecting to hear much more than libertarian propaganda out of you so I'll be unsurprised when you disagree with another dose of healthy rhetoric.
Shogun Streams Vidya
Well fuck dude, "Starbucks has better products and a nice atmosphere and they treat their suppliers fairly and their employees generously" is pretty much the whole point. What more do you want?
Wal-Mart: We're Not That Bad To Work For If You're A High-School Student Living In Some Rural Shithole
Ok, taking as a given the fact that the US economy is near or at full employment and therefore it is as easy as it currently can be made to move between jobs at will, your caveat that this is only the case with Walmart as a major US employer is irrelevant (at least as far as the point you want to make goes).
If there is full employment and Walmart was treating employees "too" poorly, their employees would leave in sufficient numbers and they would be unable to find enough replacements. This would force Walmart's hand and make them treat employees better (in terms of the a more general "treatment" and more specifically wages and benefits). If that ISN'T happening, the thing we have to assume is that Walmart employees are, if not "happy", then at least sufficiently satisfied with their work relationship to remain employed there.
I'm not in the least saying that Walmart treats their employees well, and I'm certainly not taking the position that workers in shitty jobs deserve what they get (I've been on the shit end of life's stick enough to know what a crock that is) but the fact is, in purely objective terms, the exchange with Walmart treating workers the way it does, and the workers being of the caliber and productivity they are, is a free one both sides are happy with.
You'd be amazed what isn't that bad for anyone in a rural shithole.
Maybe it's just locational bias, but I honestly think we could fix vast swathes of what's wrong with America if we just found a way to improve economic transitions, because the majority of what seems to go wrong in poor neighborhoods is simply that they're poor and no one has any options.
I have yet to hear about one person who's actually worked at Walmart and got trapped by it, so this theoretical person is bullshit. Have you worked at Walmart and have no choice but to continue working there? Has anyone in this thread? No? Then you've got no legs to stand on.
People demonize pretty much everything nowadays with power, so it makes sense that the retail sector would be the same, but damn. I have never heard so many people spit acid about something that hasn't affected them AT ALL in their own lives.
Wii Code: 1040-1320-0724-3613 :!!:
Me, the people I know, and the people in this thread (as well as the people they know) are not exactly a large or representative sample of the US population. But whatever.
Being the single largest retailer in the US, the largest grocer in the US, and the largest private employer in the world I'd say the effects of Wal-Marts policies and practices just might go beyond their employees and customers.
Okay, name two ways. Wait, I'll make it easy. Name one way in which it has affected you personally.
Wii Code: 1040-1320-0724-3613 :!!:
Most Wal-Mart shoppers will never buy the games I will buy there.
My dad picked up a PS3 from there, it was just sitting on the shelf.
Crazy
General downward pressure on retail wages, due to the fact that at least some of the policies people complain about allow them to undercut competition. I worked in retail.
Additionally, their low wages and substandard benefits (as well as policies designed to limit who gets those benefits) result in a disproportionate number of their employees ending up on various forms of public assistance. I pay taxes.
No, it's not like Wal-Mart sent a man over to rape me in my sleep or anything. But to act as though the policies and practices of a company as dominant as Wal-Mart don't effect those besides their customers and employees is pretty fucktarded.
They also have a general downward pressure on retail prices. Fuck, I wish a decent Walmart was within the DC metropolitan area. Things here are so overpriced I don't know where to begin. To note, I have had at least three other jobs that paid LESS than what Walmart was offering, and I refused to work there because of the standard they provide. That said, I still think the company deserves props for trying to lower prices and increase the ability of people to get decent product. Nobody goes into Walmart without knowing how the company operates. Just look at the office that the CEO works in, that's a testament to how thrifty they are to insure low prices.
Wii Code: 1040-1320-0724-3613 :!!:
Thanks. I really needed a good laugh.
I chuckled as well.
the one I did work at.
Was I trapped there? nah. Did I feel like it? hell yeah.
See, at the time, this town had maybe a population of 5k
The walmart wasn't even a super center.
I was there when they built the walmart and funny things happened since wal mart came in. I'll name a few.
Very few local businesses shut down, the ones that did were predatory in thier pricing anyway. (you'll pay what I make you pay and you'll like it!)
lots of new businesses followed wal-mart into the area. Mcdonalds, Taco bell, KFC, etc.. a lot of major fast food chains (though this was about the time I had gotten laid off due to 9/11 and after I left the town)
A lot of GOOD has happened for that town in terms of grown, when you take a town of 5000 people and one business can employ a good portion of them (iets say 200 employees? sound safe?)
you are breeding money into that economy, and furthermore, with thier employee discount, they were spending less on shit that they already bought from other stores (in spokane, a 2 hour drive away)
and god, they have profit sharing and stock options (price matching) for thier employees, I was rolling in cash working for them, I had no issues with my bills, and since then well, I haven't quite found a job that competes with that kind of pay/benefit options.
I hated the work I did though, I'm inherently lazy and they made me work my ass off, literally, i went into that job weighing 330, and 2 years later when I got laid off I was 265. (im 6'6)
All in all, that job was really good for me, so again, I don't think people know what the fuck they are talking about when it comes to wal-mart.
Fact of the matter is, small business owners got all up in arms that they were being undersold and they started the nasty rumor that wal-mart was a poisonous, evil deity and some crazy rights activist went to town with it and it got so far to press and to the media and people believe everything they see on the tv if it comes from a news person for some reason.
http://www.myspace.com/Shaukdotdj
Shit people, don't let your spawn run rampant. I haven't been inside of a Wal Mart in forever, but man can I blow some money at Target.
After he got back he finished up a business administration degree at the local community college. He now is the head guy at the place he started at, at the age of 23. He makes more than me. Last time we talked he said he was up for the district spot. That would make him a district manager at 24-25. (Cant remember his birthday.)
To those who say that walmart has unfair treatments of their employees I offer his story as an example of how "unfair" they are. They hire the retarded and elderly and pay them alright enough... It is very hard for some of them to find -any- job. They hire night crews regularly, and it makes a decent summer job.
I think the walmart problem is really more of a result of the global economy and the sign of our times. We are a service oriented economy and convenience is what we look for.
I will now use an alteration from something said by my friend V:
Good evening, America. Allow me first to apologize for this wake up. I do, like many of you, appreciate the comforts of cheap food and other things Walmart provides. I enjoy them as much as any bloke. But in the spirit of community, thereby those people we have forgotten about of the past usually associated with the old guy down the street who used to run the convenience store, a celebration of friendship, I thought we could mark this association, a thing that is sadly no longer cherished, by taking some time out of our daily lives to help each other and have a little chat. There are of course those who do not want us to speak. I suspect even now, grumblings are being shouted inside their minds, and men with no introspection will soon be on their way to bash me and claim it is Walmart's fault. Why? Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of introspection and evaluation, communities will always retain their power so long as we support each other. Communities offer the means to tolerate each other and live better lives, and for those who will heed this, the enunciation of truth, you too can have a community. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to, to not deal with big business and spend as you saw fit, you now have Walmart and other businesses coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they are wrong for doing so, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were frugal and cheap. Who wouldn't be? Gas prices rising, insurance costs, those luxury items you just had to buy and did since you have no self control. There were and are a myriad of excuses which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Greed got the best of you, and in your panic to save a buck you turned to the now ruler of cheap prices and low wages, Walmart. It promised you cheap prices, it promised you roll back prices, and all it demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent. Tonight you sought to end that silence. Tonight I destroyed the blind ignorance you may have had, to remind this country of what it has forgotten. Less than fifty years ago great citizens wished to have a sense of community forever in the places they resided. Their hope was to remind the world that fairness, community, justice, and freedom are more than words, they are perspectives. So if you've seen nothing, if the crimes of these businesses remain unknown to you then I would suggest you allow them to keep their practices. But if you see what I see, if you feel as I feel, and if you would seek as I seek, then I ask you to stop shopping at Walmart so damn much and beside me one year from tonight, perhaps have a community that did something, and together we shall have a community that shall never, ever be subject to businesses like this again...
The Above passage, albeit altered, was taken from V for Vendetta. Sorry it was so long. It was long in the movie.
-Stork, out. (Hopefully before the flames and bashes.)
This. Truth.
Regarding the quality of its products, Walmart doesn't suck because it is owned by evil capitalist assholes. It sucks because the consumer has low standards and is willing to settle for inferior products for the sake of convenience.
They help disrupt the communities and economies of small, rural towns.
I fucking hate small, rural towns.
Define "low standards". When I pay low prices, I know what I'm getting and pleased that I'm getting it cheap. Most of the time you really don't get your money's worth trying to be buy "quality".
Suppose you need a vacuum cleaner.
Are you going to get the SuperSucker 5000 XT Mega Extra Amazing (Advanced Version) for five hundred bucks, or the HomeMaid Vacuum Cleaner, which is 40 bucks?
Chances are you'll get the latter one because even though it's lower quality, it "does the job".
The only problem I have now is the only time it seems you can ever go into one is late at night, and it seems everyone has caught on to that idea. And the fact that apparently they don't(?) schedule cashiers and such that the corporate heads do it, so when you go in at 2am and there's 2 cashiers on and 30 people in each line it's not actually the managers fault.
So what's your point? If it does the job, it does the job. That's the point - the price difference for something that does the job is so huge that I can afford to experiment with getting the cheaper one first, and frequently, you win out of that. Or, in other cases, it's expendable for difficult jobs as is the case with drills.
So yeah... I bet the $40 dollar vacuum breaks fast... But you can buy a new shitty one for still cheaper than you could have bought the expensive one.
Then again... the expensive ones can last you 20+ years. (I have a hand me down of one form the early 80's)
My point is that "it does the job" is the reason -- or at least one of the most fundamental reasons -- why Walmart exists.
Yes. The whole disposable culture in general.
Sounds like communism to me.
Most people have this attitude.
I find it disagreeable.
Or just bad management styles.
I wrote a long post a lil earlier... It had a altered version of something it. You may find it informative.
I never said it was a bad thing. I'm not anti-Walmart.
And - anyway - employment practices was hardly the issue (nor is it really a clear cut general one as keeps being made out) - my point was, what's wrong with wanting the $40 vacuum cleaner? My success rate with cheap goods which work a long time is rather good, and I don't necessarily have $300 to spend on a freakin' vacuum cleaner.
I will say again... there is a post with a long altered quote I wrote below. Maybe you should read it?
The low prices set by walmart that a small business owner cannot match will eventually shut down the small business.
In a lot of smaller towns where wall mart has moved in there are various vacant buildings that were made so because of the above mentioned.
People lose their way of life, and we lose our sense of community, all to save a few bucks each trip to the store.
All of this was addressed.
Edit: They also tend to slightly raise prices after all the other stores close down.
Yeah except I tend to seriously wonder how many people actually notice this. And then of course, there's the much larger towns where it just doesn't matter, and of course, the cynical city-dwellers like myself.
Good.