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A (metaphorical) Scoops enema [GIANT BOMB]

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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    indies have it hard

    only an entire subculture 7 figures strong who do nothing but buy every indie title wholesale without thinking twice

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    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Langly wrote: »
    it’s how most successful games are just the same thing with a new filter, and games that want to break away from the norm to create something interesting are shot down for not being homogenized.

    the person with what seems like a color puzzle block game, an asteroids clone, and a contra-esque platform shooter in development says.

    Also, yeah guys, Brothers, Gone Home, Journey, and even weird but not arty stuff like Dive Kick? all of those were pretty spectacular failures

    I have a podcast about Power Rangers:Teenagers With Attitude | TWA Facebook Group
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    DichotomyDichotomy Registered User regular
    Langly wrote: »
    I'm not sure how we're experiencing the death of indie gaming when there are more and better independent games coming out then ever before, and the new consoles are both dedicating significant system resources and attention to small developers.

    but is that the success of all independent developers or the success of a relatively small number of the biggest and most popular independent developers

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    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Dichotomy wrote: »
    Langly wrote: »
    I'm not sure how we're experiencing the death of indie gaming when there are more and better independent games coming out then ever before, and the new consoles are both dedicating significant system resources and attention to small developers.

    but is that the success of all independent developers or the success of a relatively small number of the biggest and most popular independent developers

    You mean like the success of the most popular musicians, authors, actors, and artists?

    Thats how creative output works. He says making a living as a game developer is in part a popularity contest.

    Well. Yeah?

    I have a podcast about Power Rangers:Teenagers With Attitude | TWA Facebook Group
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    SnowbeatSnowbeat i need something to kick this thing's ass over the lineRegistered User regular
    Dichotomy wrote: »
    Langly wrote: »
    I'm not sure how we're experiencing the death of indie gaming when there are more and better independent games coming out then ever before, and the new consoles are both dedicating significant system resources and attention to small developers.

    but is that the success of all independent developers or the success of a relatively small number of the biggest and most popular independent developers

    well

    capitalism

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    who said we're experiencing the death of indie gaming

    that article is about how things are getting better but only because people are working very hard for it, and in the process a lot of people just get burnt out and can't deal with the industry anymore, and then the author encourages people to persevere instead of quit

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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    Dichotomy wrote: »
    Langly wrote: »
    I'm not sure how we're experiencing the death of indie gaming when there are more and better independent games coming out then ever before, and the new consoles are both dedicating significant system resources and attention to small developers.

    but is that the success of all independent developers or the success of a relatively small number of the biggest and most popular independent developers

    You mean like the success of the most popular musicians, authors, actors, and artists?

    Thats how creative output works. He says making a living as a game developer is in part a popularity contest.

    Well. Yeah?

    when popularity is derived from talent, business acumen, and being able to understand your market

    but isn't it easier to blame dickwolves instead?

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    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    I agree with the parts about how gamer culture is generally a toxically concentrated microcosm of all the negative aspects of media/society at large

    But not the dismissive attitude towards "AAA" games or the authors apparent feelings about the plague of capitalism on poor suffering artists

    Or the parts where Phil Fish is described as anything but a huge baby

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    Dichotomy wrote: »
    Langly wrote: »
    I'm not sure how we're experiencing the death of indie gaming when there are more and better independent games coming out then ever before, and the new consoles are both dedicating significant system resources and attention to small developers.

    but is that the success of all independent developers or the success of a relatively small number of the biggest and most popular independent developers

    Phil Fish came out of nowhere with Fez, Minecraft started from nothing as well. Gone Home is a game made in unity by an completely new development team, Brothers is made by an established team but not known for anything huge.

    I mean, the people who make good games get popular. Braid was Blow's first big thing he did himself. World of Goo was done by two people and was massively successful.

    There's a massive list of independent developers who were not established before their game came out. Just because you (the writer of the article) are not successful does not mean that the industry is dying.

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    -Tal wrote: »
    who said we're experiencing the death of indie gaming

    that article is about how things are getting better but only because people are working very hard for it, and in the process a lot of people just get burnt out and can't deal with the industry anymore, and then the author encourages people to persevere instead of quit
    it’s AAA and capitalism shutting down the small indies while continuing to make it big, it’s making a living turning into a popularity contest.
    shutting us little people down while continuing to give the big dogs a place where they can say what they want, and be sure that no matter how much objection they receive, they will always be right.

    Langly on
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    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »

    Look I don't know the answer to this

    But is The Boss being a cool character an accident at this point

    Cause it sure does seem like it

    I have a podcast about Power Rangers:Teenagers With Attitude | TWA Facebook Group
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    SnowbeatSnowbeat i need something to kick this thing's ass over the lineRegistered User regular
    hideo no

    what are you doing

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    RehabRehab Registered User regular
    Langly wrote: »
    I'm not sure how we're experiencing the death of indie gaming when there are more and better independent games coming out then ever before, and the new consoles are both dedicating significant system resources and attention to small developers.

    That and the person clearly doesn't know what led to Phil Fish quitting Fez and moving on otherwise. Really just poorly informed in general.

    NNID: Rehab0
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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    Snowbeat wrote: »
    hideo no

    what are you doing

    he hasn't had the answer to that question since his first day on the job

    don't count on it now

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    Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    Did anyone else see the picture he put up as a possible costume for Quiet.

    Yeah.

    (Switch Friend Code) SW-4910-9735-6014(PSN) timspork (Steam) timspork (XBox) Timspork


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    Bluedude152Bluedude152 Registered User regular
    Well that doesn't sound good

    Certainly explains the Silence though

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    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »

    Man, if he meant all the characters I could be tentatively on board with another episode of Kojima being crazy but you know its just gonna be the female characters

    And the idea of the man who made a game where you can equip a camera to make the Sexy Evil Ladies start posing like they're at a victoria's secret catalogue pushing the erotic envelope makes me vaguely uncomfortable

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    DichotomyDichotomy Registered User regular
    you know I really just do not understand that writer's optimism

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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    I think Kojima at this point just loves being a walking contradiction in everything he does

    All this weird creepy shit, but also he wrote The Boss who might very well be the best female character in any game made

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    Langly wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    who said we're experiencing the death of indie gaming

    that article is about how things are getting better but only because people are working very hard for it, and in the process a lot of people just get burnt out and can't deal with the industry anymore, and then the author encourages people to persevere instead of quit
    it’s AAA and capitalism shutting down the small indies while continuing to make it big, it’s making a living turning into a popularity contest.

    independent developers get shut down or ignored all the time

    did you read the rest of the article which is about how change is happening and things are getting better for independent developers and this is why they should keep working instead of being discouraged by the negative aspects of the industry

    this is an article about positivity, I don't understand how it is being interpreted as "aaaahh indies are dying"

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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    Langly wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    who said we're experiencing the death of indie gaming

    that article is about how things are getting better but only because people are working very hard for it, and in the process a lot of people just get burnt out and can't deal with the industry anymore, and then the author encourages people to persevere instead of quit
    it’s AAA and capitalism shutting down the small indies while continuing to make it big, it’s making a living turning into a popularity contest.

    independent developers get shut down or ignored all the time

    did you read the rest of the article which is about how change is happening and things are getting better for independent developers and this is why they should keep working instead of being discouraged by the negative aspects of the industry

    this is an article about positivity, I don't understand how it is being interpreted as "aaaahh indies are dying"

    possibly because the first 6 or 7 paragraphs are so utterly banal that everyone had to bail out before the end

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »

    I don't know why he wants the character to be more erotic, but he specifically contradicts himself about why he's doing it. First he's saying that he's providing this information so that people can cosplay effectively (so they know what she looks like), and this is divorced from making her more erotic. Because later he says "well maybe if I do this it will be harder to cosplay since it wouldn't be doable."

    It's just super weird. I think part of the problem is stuff being lost in translation or worded poorly and part of the problem is that he just in general has poor track records with female characters and sex in his games in general.

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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    Langly wrote: »
    it’s how most successful games are just the same thing with a new filter, and games that want to break away from the norm to create something interesting are shot down for not being homogenized.

    the person with what seems like a color puzzle block game, an asteroids clone, and a contra-esque platform shooter in development says.

    Also The Last Of Us sure did get shot down by everyone.

    sig.gif
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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »

    Hideo Kojima is the guy in the college movie where there's just been a really uncomfortable conversation about a girl confronting a guy over sexual harassment and then Kojima bursts into the room in his underwear with a beer bong and a porn DVD going CHECK THIS SHIT OUT SHE TAKES 4 DICKS.

    sig.gif
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    RehabRehab Registered User regular
    Jasconius wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    Langly wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    who said we're experiencing the death of indie gaming

    that article is about how things are getting better but only because people are working very hard for it, and in the process a lot of people just get burnt out and can't deal with the industry anymore, and then the author encourages people to persevere instead of quit
    it’s AAA and capitalism shutting down the small indies while continuing to make it big, it’s making a living turning into a popularity contest.

    independent developers get shut down or ignored all the time

    did you read the rest of the article which is about how change is happening and things are getting better for independent developers and this is why they should keep working instead of being discouraged by the negative aspects of the industry

    this is an article about positivity, I don't understand how it is being interpreted as "aaaahh indies are dying"

    possibly because the first 6 or 7 paragraphs are so utterly banal that everyone had to bail out before the end

    I should have quit reading after the first paragraph in which after addressing two facts: a lot of things have happened in our world lately and Mike Krahulik did a thing, everything else said within is almost completely wrong.

    NNID: Rehab0
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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    Langly wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    who said we're experiencing the death of indie gaming

    that article is about how things are getting better but only because people are working very hard for it, and in the process a lot of people just get burnt out and can't deal with the industry anymore, and then the author encourages people to persevere instead of quit
    it’s AAA and capitalism shutting down the small indies while continuing to make it big, it’s making a living turning into a popularity contest.

    independent developers get shut down or ignored all the time

    did you read the rest of the article which is about how change is happening and things are getting better for independent developers and this is why they should keep working instead of being discouraged by the negative aspects of the industry

    this is an article about positivity, I don't understand how it is being interpreted as "aaaahh indies are dying"

    because they're taking the aspect of a martyr when that isn't the case. It is simply not true that good games are being shut down by THE MAN. Good games by small teams have caught huge amounts of popularity. They are only getting more influential and popular. They see things as being horrible with huge AAA games bearing down on their creativity, and that isn't the case. Independent Developers are blowing up right now and with the new consoles have unbridled access to the market. There's no glorious battle here from an oppressed minority, indie games have the momentum. E3 and the Sony conference focused a huge amount of time specifically for indie developers.

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    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    SimBen wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »

    Hideo Kojima is the guy in the college movie where there's just been a really uncomfortable conversation about a girl confronting a guy over sexual harassment and then Kojima bursts into the room in his underwear with a beer bong and a porn DVD going CHECK THIS SHIT OUT SHE TAKES 4 DICKS.

    I don't understand your scenario

    Was he... occupied with the porn DVD and was just so impressed he had to show you?

    How does the beer bong factor in?

    There are just too many questions

    I have a podcast about Power Rangers:Teenagers With Attitude | TWA Facebook Group
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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    SimBen wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »

    Hideo Kojima is the guy in the college movie where there's just been a really uncomfortable conversation about a girl confronting a guy over sexual harassment and then Kojima bursts into the room in his underwear with a beer bong and a porn DVD going CHECK THIS SHIT OUT SHE TAKES 4 DICKS.

    I don't understand your scenario

    Was he... occupied with the porn DVD and was just so impressed he had to show you?

    How does the beer bong factor in?

    There are just too many questions

    I like to think he was watching the porn academically and just enjoying the technical intricacies. The underwear and the beer bong might be unrelated to that (but probably related to each other).

    sig.gif
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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    ps dudes that article may be wrongheaded in a good number of departments but it's overall pretty optimistic and i don't know why you all need to jump down its throat

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    DichotomyDichotomy Registered User regular
    Jasconius wrote: »
    indies have it hard

    only an entire subculture 7 figures strong who do nothing but buy every indie title wholesale without thinking twice
    Jasconius wrote: »
    when popularity is derived from talent, business acumen, and being able to understand your market

    but isn't it easier to blame dickwolves instead?
    Jasconius wrote: »
    possibly because the first 6 or 7 paragraphs are so utterly banal that everyone had to bail out before the end

    you're disgusting.

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    ps dudes that article may be wrongheaded in a good number of departments but it's overall pretty optimistic and i don't know why you all need to jump down its throat

    because it's wrongheaded in almost all of its departments and I'm tired of seeing self-righteous martyrs use anything to bemoan their state. It's only optimistic in the sense that they are continuing to fight the good fight against people not really liking their games and the AAA menace, when that isn't the environment we are currently in.

    The only thing it gets right is jumping into the numerous articles that came out talking about the problems of misogyny and privilege in the gaming community. That's not saying anything new. The main thrust of the article is actually not about that at all, though.

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    Langly wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    Langly wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    who said we're experiencing the death of indie gaming

    that article is about how things are getting better but only because people are working very hard for it, and in the process a lot of people just get burnt out and can't deal with the industry anymore, and then the author encourages people to persevere instead of quit
    it’s AAA and capitalism shutting down the small indies while continuing to make it big, it’s making a living turning into a popularity contest.

    independent developers get shut down or ignored all the time

    did you read the rest of the article which is about how change is happening and things are getting better for independent developers and this is why they should keep working instead of being discouraged by the negative aspects of the industry

    this is an article about positivity, I don't understand how it is being interpreted as "aaaahh indies are dying"

    because they're taking the aspect of a martyr when that isn't the case. It is simply not true that good games are being shut down by THE MAN. Good games by small teams have caught huge amounts of popularity. They are only getting more influential and popular. They see things as being horrible with huge AAA games bearing down on their creativity, and that isn't the case. Independent Developers are blowing up right now and with the new consoles have unbridled access to the market. There's no glorious battle here from an oppressed minority, indie games have the momentum. E3 and the Sony conference focused a huge amount of time specifically for indie developers.

    yeah that stuff about indie games only getting more influential and popular is exactly their point, there are many reasons to be optimistic about the future and the way the big three competed for indie spotlight this e3 was amazing

    but I don't know what to say if you don't think large budget games still have an inherent popularity advantage, and that even with the current momentum for indie games it's still an uphill battle that often discourages aspiring developers

    the author is saying to not be discouraged

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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited September 2013
    Another arrested gear joke I couldn't figure out how to do properly

    Footage of Quiet set to dialogue from AD season 4 about George Sr.'s mute assistant that communicates entirely through her eyes

    With quiet "saying" "This costume is ridiculous and belies the latent misogyny that undermines the artistic triumphs of the metal gear series"

    And big boss responding that yes he would like more lemonade, thank you

    Speed Racer on
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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    Dichotomy wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    indies have it hard

    only an entire subculture 7 figures strong who do nothing but buy every indie title wholesale without thinking twice
    Jasconius wrote: »
    when popularity is derived from talent, business acumen, and being able to understand your market

    but isn't it easier to blame dickwolves instead?
    Jasconius wrote: »
    possibly because the first 6 or 7 paragraphs are so utterly banal that everyone had to bail out before the end

    you're disgusting.

    Oh well

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    SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    i wonder if the threshold for being a "good" or "big" indie game will change soon, or if it is already changing

    i feel like putting out a platform with retro-ish graphics and a gameplay gimmick isn't cutting it anymore and that is a lot of indie games

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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    I had a fairly meandering post typed up that essentially boiled down to: nowadays the biggest obstacle to indie success is other, bigger, more successful indie games. There's not a whole lot of shared mindspace between indie and AAA games.

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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    Furthermore, the idea that innovation is alien to AAA but that churning out sequels is alien to indie is pretty damn unfounded. The biggest AAA successes of this year won't be coming from franchises that put out samey sequels every year, they're either brand-new (TLoU, Watch_Dogs) or come from franchises that have infrequent updates that carry a significant payload of improvements (Infinite, GTA5).

    Meanwhile, I'd be surprised to find anyone calling out Telltale for putting out More Walking Dead and The Wolf Among Us: A Very Walking Dead-Like Thing. Sometimes you want new things, sometimes you want gaming comfort food. Nothing wrong with either.

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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
This discussion has been closed.