The Winnu: Pass turn. The Emirates of Hacan: Activate the empty Teenage Wasteland system. (CP 3 --> 2)
Move in 4 Dreadnoughts, 1 Carrier, and 4 Fighters from the Mecatol Rex system. The Arborec: Activate the Hacan Home System. (CP 5 --> 4)
Move in 2 Dreadnoughts and 1 Ground Force from the Wormhole Nexus and 1 Cruiser and 1 Shock Troop from Lodor.
During the space battle, Arborec loses 2 Dreadnoughts, 1 Cruiser, 1 Shock Troop, and 1 Ground Force while Hacan loses 1 Destroyer, 1 Carrier, and 3 Fighters; combat resolves in favor of Hacan.
Use the Fleet Logistics technology to make a second tactical action, activating the empty Grace system. (CP 4 --> 3)
Move in 1 Carrier and 5 Fighters from Capha. The Yssaril Tribes: Play Action Card "Local Unrest", targeting Lesab and returning it to neutral status. (AC 11 --> 10) The Emirates of Hacan: Activate the Hacan Home System. (CP 2 --> 1)
Move in 1 Cruiser from Arinam-Meer and load 1 Ground Force from Arretze.
Land 1 Ground Force on Hercant.
Exhaust Arretze (2R), Quann (2R), Saudor (2R), Arinam (1R), 7 Trade Goods (TG 7 --> 0), +1R from Sarween Tools to build 1 Dreadnought (5R) and 3 Cruisers (6R) at Arretze and a Space Dock (4R) at Hercant. The Arborec: Pass turn. The Yssaril Tribes: Use racial ability to skip turn. The Emirates of Hacan: Play Action Card "Local Unrest", targeting Thibah, removing an Arborec Ground Force and returning the planet to neutral status. The Yssaril Tribes: Play Action Card "Alien Technology", exhausting Ashtroth (2R) and Tequ'ran (2R) to gain Gen Synthesis. (AC 10 --> 9) The Emirates of Hacan: Activate the Mecatol Rex system. (CP 2 --> 1)
Use 1R from Sarween Tools to build 2 Fighters (1R) at Mecatol Rex.
The Emirates of Hacan: 8 VP The Winnu: 7 VP The Arborec: 7 VP The Mentak Coalition: 6 VP The Yssaril Tribes: 3 VP The Clan of Saar: 3 VP
Public Objectives
[1 VP] I won a Space Battle against at least 3 opposing ships in one system this turn.: Mentak, Winnu, Saar, Hacan, Arborec
[1 VP] I now spend 3 Command Counters from my Command and/or Strategy Allocation areas.: Winnu, Mentak, Arborec
[1 VP] I control Mecatol Rex.: Mentak, Winnu, Hacan
[1 VP] I successfully invaded one planet containing at least 1 opposing Ground Force or Mechanized Unit this turn.: Yssaril, Hacan, Mentak, Winnu, Arborec
[1 VP] I have 5 Technology Advances.: Hacan, Winnu, Mentak, Saar, Arborec, Yssaril
[1 VP] I control 5 planets outside my Home System.: Mentak, Yssaril, Winnu, Saar, Arborec
[2 VP] I have 5 Technology Advances of the same color.
[GAME OVER] Imperium Rex: As soon as this card is revealed, the game ends immediately. The player with the most victory points wins the game. RED TAPE
[2 VP] I control the Mecatol Rex system and at least 3 systems adjacent to it. I "control" a system if I have at least one (non-Fighter) ship there, and I control every planet in the system. RED TAPE
[WIN] Domination!: I control all the planets in the Home Systems of two other players and have at least 4 (non-Fighter) ships in each.
[2 VP] I won two Space Battles this turn, each in different systems and against at least 3 opposing ships.: Hacan, Arborec
Secret Objectives The Emirates of Hacan: [2 VP] Usurper: I control Mecatol Rex; I have a Space Dock and at least 6 Ground Forces or Mechanized Units here. The Arborec: 1 Secret Objective The Clan of Saar: 1 Secret Objective The Winnu: 1 Secret Objective The Mentak Coalition: 1 Secret Objective The Yssaril Tribes: 1 Secret Objective
Special Objectives
Corrupt Empire - The next player to attack Saar gains 1 Victory Point. This card is then discarded from play. Winnu
Worlds: X - Arretze (2R, 0I) X - Hercant (1R, 1I) R - Kamdorn (0R, 1I) X - Mecatol Rex (1R, 6I) X - Arinam (1R, 2I, B) R - Meer (0R, 4I) X - Quann (2R, 1I, G) X - Saudor (2R, 2I)
Worlds: R - Lisis II (1R, 0I) R - Ragh (2R, 1I) X - Lazar (1R, 0I) R - Mehar Xull (1R, 3I, B) R - Qucen'n (1R, 2I) X - Rarron (0R, 3I, G) X - Sakulag (2R, 1I) X - Tar'mann (1R, 1I)
Worlds: R - Winnu (3R, 4I, Y) X - Moll Primus (4R, 1I) X - Garbozia (2R, 1I, G) X - Hercalor (1R, 0I, Y) R - Industrex (2R, 0I, R (x2)) R - Tiamat (1R, 2I, Y) R - Wellon (1R, 2I)
Trade Contracts: Arborec [2], Saar [1]
Technology: Light/Wave Deflector, Magen Defense Grid, Deep Space Cannon, Graviton Laser System, Hylar V Assault Laser, Graviton Negator, Cybernetics, Mageon Implants
Worlds: R - Retillion (2R, 3I) R - Shalloq (1R, 2I) X - Abaddon (1R, 0I, R) X - Ashtroth (2R, 0I) X - El'nath (2R, 0I, B) X - Loki (1R, 2I) X - Primor (2R, 1I, GF (x2)) X - Tequ'ran (2R, 0I, R) X - Torkan (0R, 3I, B)
Neutral Worlds and Special Effects
X - Lesab (2R, 1I, G) X - Thibah (1R, 1I)
Order of Play The Mentak Coalition: (1) LeadershipPASSED The Arborec: (2) Diplomacy IIPASSED The Clan of Saar: (3) AssemblyPASSED The Yssaril Tribes: (5) Trade IICurrent Player The Winnu: (6) Warfare IIPASSED The Emirates of Hacan: (7) Technology II
Hacan should have one of their CCs on their home system. I think all of their systems with ships have been activated, so they can't pull anything.
Yeah I'll PASS then.
Man, considering how many action cards I had, I just had garbage: 2x In the Silence of Space, some cards that only work with warsuns, and the ability to cancel all trade contracts including my own (yay?).
All hail Hacan. Now about running those Mentak camps...
The Yssaril Tribes: Pass turn. The Emirates of Hacan: Pass turn.
Claim Objectives The Mentak Coalition: Does not control homeworld, cannot claim objectives. The Arborec: [2 VP] I have 5 Technology Advances of the same color. (VP 7 --> 9) The Clan of Saar: [2 VP] I have 5 Technology Advances of the same color. (VP 3 --> 5) The Yssaril Tribes: [2 VP] I have 5 Technology Advances of the same color. (VP 3 --> 5) The Winnu: Does not control homeworld, cannot claim objectives. The Emirates of Hacan: [2 VP] I have 5 Technology Advances of the same color. (VP 8 --> 10)
The Emirates of Hacan have achieved 10 Victory Points and are recognized as galactic rulers!
Final Victory Points and Objectives
The Emirates of Hacan: 10 VP The Arborec: 9 VP The Winnu: 7 VP The Mentak Coalition: 6 VP The Yssaril Tribes: 5 VP The Clan of Saar: 5 VP
Public Objectives
[1 VP] I won a Space Battle against at least 3 opposing ships in one system this turn.: Mentak, Winnu, Saar, Hacan, Arborec
[1 VP] I now spend 3 Command Counters from my Command and/or Strategy Allocation areas.: Winnu, Mentak, Arborec
[1 VP] I control Mecatol Rex.: Mentak, Winnu, Hacan
[1 VP] I successfully invaded one planet containing at least 1 opposing Ground Force or Mechanized Unit this turn.: Yssaril, Hacan, Mentak, Winnu, Arborec
[1 VP] I have 5 Technology Advances.: Hacan, Winnu, Mentak, Saar, Arborec, Yssaril
[1 VP] I control 5 planets outside my Home System.: Mentak, Yssaril, Winnu, Saar, Arborec
[2 VP] I have 5 Technology Advances of the same color.: Arborec, Saar, Yssaril, Hacan
[GAME OVER] Imperium Rex: As soon as this card is revealed, the game ends immediately. The player with the most victory points wins the game. RED TAPE
[2 VP] I control the Mecatol Rex system and at least 3 systems adjacent to it. I "control" a system if I have at least one (non-Fighter) ship there, and I control every planet in the system. RED TAPE
[WIN] Domination!: I control all the planets in the Home Systems of two other players and have at least 4 (non-Fighter) ships in each.
[2 VP] I won two Space Battles this turn, each in different systems and against at least 3 opposing ships.: Hacan, Arborec
Secret Objectives The Emirates of Hacan: [2 VP] Usurper: I control Mecatol Rex; I have a Space Dock and at least 6 Ground Forces or Mechanized Units here. The Arborec: 1 Secret Objective The Clan of Saar: 1 Secret Objective The Winnu: 1 Secret Objective The Mentak Coalition: 1 Secret Objective The Yssaril Tribes: 1 Secret Objective
Special Objectives
Corrupt Empire - The next player to attack Saar gains 1 Victory Point. This card is then discarded from play. Winnu
Blarney makes these seem smooth compared to my hosting bumbling
So was the "5 techs of the same color" objective the only thing keeping everyone from getting warsuns? The new tech tree makes it very easy. Each race starts off only 2 techs away from it. The only reason I never went for it was starting with only 1 tech. Yssaril are actually balanced now with the new tree; only 1 starting tech and no more XRD. L1z1x seem like they've also been balanced now that they don't start with a billion techs. I can't imagine going back to the old tech tree after this one. Gen Synthesis should probably be house ruled though *cough*. Gravity Drive also remains situationally broken.
I don't think I've ever seen a game where Hacan wasn't a top contender. Other races have been balanced through starting tech changes, but a big chunk of Hacan's strength comes from their racial tech production centers, which is probably the single best racial tech in the game.
Not sure what to think of the red tape rule.
What's everyone's thoughts on a variant that only used public objectives? I never felt like S.O.'s added much to the game. Experienced players can spot pretty quickly what someone is going for, and a lot of them are crazy unequal in terms of difficulty.
Be interesting to see a game using the trimmed action/political decks. So much chaff. Flank Speed and that "every cruiser causes a free pre-emptive hit" are bonkers.
That was fun - and yeah, I know I won, but really, I was having fun the entire game.
I really like optional rules we used in this game. The tech tree, for the most part, was great. But the 5 Tech objective wasn't holding me back...I was just really enjoying using some techs that I have not used before to this extent. And at first I was upset that I only started with one tech (and actually, I never did get the other normal starting tech). I don't want to go back to the other tree either. I very much agree about Gravity Drive and am glad it was much harder to get on this tree. Hate that tech.
I also thought the way we chose Home Systems and Races was excellent and have used it in all my table top games since starting this.
As for the Red Tape, I didn't mind it - it added another layer of planning and negotiations to the game. Maybe that is good, maybe not.
I like SOs but maybe a game without them would be an interesting experiment. And I did like the Draw 2, Choose 1 aspect of this game. The alleviated the inequality a bit I think.
What SOs did everyone else have? Was the choice hard at the beginning?
And I thought this WAS the trimmed action/political deck? Would you like to see it trimmed more MrBody?
Thank you so much MrBlarney that was great! Also you have the GM stamina of a bull!
I strongly approved of red tape (felt much more strategic, especially for a forum game), but I dunno about the tech tree. I don't like the original tech tree either, though, maybe I'm just picky.
My SO was to control 8 systems outside my home. For a couple months, I was thinking it was 8 planets, though... Genius. By then my game was over, since I have stretched myself a bit too thinly, trying to get objectives. Strangely, I think I focussed on objectives a bit too much. That's a first.
I made a few mistakes, mostly assuming that Hacan would attack a weakened Yssaril, instead of allowing them to rebuild. Still think that was strange.
I did not like the new tech tree, personally. I won't be playing with it again.
I had a choice between taking a side's last space dock or getting some large number of same color tech worlds that the board layout meant I'd have to be stretched across just about the entire board. We all know which one I chose (although by the wording of the SO, Saar ended up completely immune to it anyway!)
I definitely noticed the trimmed decks, as there was far fewer cards I could casually dismiss. The rebalanced tech tree I'm unsure of; I'd have to play with it a bit more. It at least makes some choices much harder. Lots of no-brainer techs in the base tree are now behind some less useful techs to make you really have to comit to get them, except for war suns of course. :P
Never really seen Gen Synthesis used to defend home worlds, and yeah that's pretty crazy.
I made a few mistakes, mostly assuming that Hacan would attack a weakened Yssaril, instead of allowing them to rebuild. Still think that was strange.
In my own defence, other than just saying 'it worked for me!' but there was absolutely no incentive for me to engage Yssaril. I was extremely lucky in that the Saar also occupied the Arborec and so I was allowed to focus on my objectives. Had I engaged Yssaril, the only thing I could see it doing was making you AND Winnu stronger. Your alliance was scary and the only one on the board. I needed the guerrilla tactics of the Yssaril to keep you honest. Now, had Mentak made any ovature to attack the Yssaril, I would have had to listen, but I didn't feel there was one.
Thanks to everyone for sticking with the game for the nearly ten months for it to go from start to finish. There were some slow points and management mistakes were made, but I'm pleased that the journey was relatively smooth. I'll probably run another play-by-post game in March, though I'm not sure if I'll do another game of Twilight Imperium, or do a Battlestar Galactica game; more feedback on the house rules and other options used in this game are welcome just in case I decide to do another Twilight Imperium game. Feel free to ask any other questions you might have about the game that you think I can answer.
I'll give some opinions on what has already been stated by others, starting with the alternate Tech Tree. I still like the core ideas of the alternate Tree, though the implementation wasn't perfect. The fact that the average depth of technologies is shallower than in the standard tree and that there is a harder amount of specialization built into the tree appeals to me. I actually don't mind that War Sun can be achievable by more races, since it's the same 'depth' as it was on the standard tree, but some races are closer to it at the start. On the other hand, the green side of the Tech Tree is indeed a bit too strong while the weak first tier yellow technologies seemed to turn everyone away from them. I'm leaning in favor of the alternate tree, but more testing and thought is going to be necessary. I'd rather not have to modify the text of the technologies since that might be a step too much - I'd prefer only to do one of modifying the text or modifying the structure - but it might be a good thing to consider.
We were indeed using the trimmed Action and Political card decks, fifty cards from the Action deck to take it from 170 to 120 and fifty cards from the Political deck to take it from 110 to 60. Overall, I'm pretty pleased with the effects of the trimming. The sizes of the decks were good (25 cards left in the Action card deck and 29 left in the Political card deck). I'm actually collecting other peoples' opinions on what cards should be kept and what should be trimmed, so if you're interested in helping me create some kind of consensus, give me a PM and I'll link you some things.
Eight players, you crazy man. Good luck with it if you want to add two more players to juggle.
On the topic of Secret Objectives, I wonder how well an Exclusive Objectives variant would work. In this variant, a number of Secret Objective cards are dealt out face up as a common pool at the start of the game; each player may claim any of the objectives if they satisfy the conditions, but may only claim one Objective. Once an Exclusive (née Secret) Objective has been claimed, no other players may claim it. It might work better with the Preliminary Objectives from the Shards of the Throne expansion, which are worth only 1 VP but are easier to satisfy; Secret Objectives tend to require a much larger plan to execute, so competition over an Exclusive Secret Objective could be devastating for a player who gets scooped by another.
Nah... can't see it working well. Secret objectives are a thing you base your whole play around, because the public ones are fairly generic and you will get some through regular play. Secret objectives... too much damage if another played swoops. SOs are roughly on par with second stage objectives, with similar rewards. You might as well play exclusives with those, or make it one big pool - first player to 5 techs of same color should be a close race for an exclusive, for example.
Well, when your Secret Objective is hidden, it's harder for opponents to know what Objective you have, so it's more difficult for them to counter your plans. The analogy isn't perfect since the game dynamic will probably change quite a bit between having individual Secret Objectives versus a common pool of Exclusive Objectives.
EDIT: Ah, and since I missed Kaneski's post when I was posting (I guess I forgot to refresh and had the draft sitting here for a while), the reasons outlined in his post are exactly why I think using Preliminary Objectives as Exclusive Objectives is a better idea since they require less commitment.
Yeah replacing secret objectives with a pool of preliminary objectives sounds interesting. My problem with SOs is how uneven they are. Often they effectively eliminate players from the game if you get a hard one and it just comes down to a contest between people with realistic objectives. A lot of them can either be a cakewalk or impossible depending on the map setup ("hold X tech specialty worlds", "control all wormholes" (particularly impossible if the game has a Ghosts of Creuss player)). The overall easiest is probably "control 2 systems adjacent to 2 neighbor's homeworld", especially if a neighbor has an empty system next to their HW.
Mine were "have all space docks and all dreadnauts deployed AND control mecatol rex" or "occupy an enemy homeworld". After getting stuck with the former last game, I figured go with the latter. Well, we all see what Gen Synthesis did to that. It took 2 back to back invasions (the 2nd an uncontested space battle) with a combined 3 mech units, 10 ground forces, warsun + 3 dreadnaut bombardment AND bacterial weapon to overcome a mere 5 ground units.
Notice though how nail-biting and and tense this game was, with no one claiming any SOs except only one player at the very end. I don't think it's coincidence that an almost total lack of SOs led to a far more interesting game.
With the red tape...I still don't know. I think I would love it if it was altered so that somehow you wouldn't be able to end the game at the halfway point just by choosing Bureaucracy and choosing Imperium Rex. That action card banning Bureaucracy made it a lot more interesting by preventing that earlier ending. I do agree that with hidden objectives, it's a big luck swing on which stage IIs come up, so maybe going back to the old gradual reveal of objectives, but changing Bureaucracy primary to "look at the top 2 objectives, reveal 1 and return the other either to the top or bottom of the deck" to give more incentive to choosing Bureaucracy by drastically altering the objectives.
The new galaxy creation + race selection system: I'm not sure because I think the races are a lot more balanced now (though Hacan are still powerful, and Xxcha/Saar/Winnu still get the short end of the stick). The thing with map setup, is that having an impassible red system to the coreword space adjacent to your homeworld almost always totally kills your chance at winning. Every game I've played where that happens, the affected players always ended up in the last place. It's a situation much more likely to happen with this setup and the one person stuck with it is screwed no matter which race he gets. I think the best to worst galaxy creation methods go (all experienced players + standard galaxy creation rules) > (new/mixed experienced players + new creation rules) > (new/mixed experienced players + standard creation rules). With a bunch of experienced players knowing each race's "ranking", there's more self-balancing during galaxy creation. The races still aren't totally equal, but there's nothing as blatant as base game Yssaril anymore.
Didn't realize we were already playing with a trimmed deck! Me and Blarney were discussing further trimming. Not sure what he decided on. Personally I think all the cards requiring warsuns could be trimmed (they're useless 90% of the time, and even when you have a warsun they're not any more useful than other cards), as well as Flank Speed (way too powerful, zero warning), the ones that sabotage a space dock (ruins the game for a player if played on them in the first round), and all the Shards of the Throne ones that say "if not playing with X rule, count as 1 trade good instead" simply because 1 TG is weak for an action card and most of the SotT rules don't get used. As far as political cards, "Everyone gets waruns" does little but totally screw over a Muaat player.
Under no circumstance should anyone ever play with the political representatives rule :x
Mine were "have all space docks and all dreadnauts deployed AND control mecatol rex" or "occupy an enemy homeworld". After getting stuck with the former last game, I figured go with the latter. Well, we all see what Gen Synthesis did to that. It took 2 back to back invasions (the 2nd an uncontested space battle) with a combined 3 mech units, 10 ground forces, warsun + 3 dreadnaut bombardment AND bacterial weapon to overcome a mere 5 ground units.
That's not really a problem with secret objectives, though, is it? Better to change Gen Synthesis.
I'll post a recap of all the house rules we play with later. Might prove inspirational, I don't know. We have, I'm guessing, around 75 plays behind our belts, so I feel they've become reasonably balanced over the last ten (what) years.
Mine were "have all space docks and all dreadnauts deployed AND control mecatol rex" or "occupy an enemy homeworld". After getting stuck with the former last game, I figured go with the latter. Well, we all see what Gen Synthesis did to that. It took 2 back to back invasions (the 2nd an uncontested space battle) with a combined 3 mech units, 10 ground forces, warsun + 3 dreadnaut bombardment AND bacterial weapon to overcome a mere 5 ground units.
That's not really a problem with secret objectives, though, is it? Better to change Gen Synthesis.
I'll post a recap of all the house rules we play with later. Might prove inspirational, I don't know. We have, I'm guessing, around 75 plays behind our belts, so I feel they've become reasonably balanced over the last ten (what) years.
Occupying an enemy homeworld is actually one of the easier secret objectives. That's why I took it! Little did I know about infinite regenerating T-1000 ground troops.
Like I said, it's the huge gap in difficulty between the secret objectives that's the problem. Map-dependent ones are either really easy or impossible. "Hold Mecatol with X" where X can be anything from a mere 6 ground forces or a whole 5 dreadnauts. "Capture an enemy homeworld" is objectively easier than "destroy an enemy's last space dock" since the bare minimum for that is capturing their homeworld (unless someone else captures their homeworld first, which is entirely out of your hands).
Since the game is over, I can post the trimmed deck lists, though I want to hold off for a little bit in case anyone wants to survey their keep/marginal/cut choices since I don't want to put undue influence on anyone's opinions, although most of the Action Cards did get revealed through the course of the game. The stuff we discussed didn't influence the cuts, MrBody, but could serve useful for further refinements of the trimming process.
Changing Bureaucracy to state "Look at the top 2 Objectives. Reveal one and return the other to the top or bottom of the Objective Deck" could end the game very quickly if there isn't a caveat requiring all Stage 1 cards to be revealed first. Otherwise, Imperium Rex could come up as soon as Round 3 if Bureaucracy is selected each round, all unrevealed objectives are buried, and Imperium Rex is at the top of the Stage II stack. The
As for galaxy creation, the home position+race draft was simplified for expediency in the forum format; originally, the variant from which I drew my variant had a home position and race auction instead. (I think MrBody was the one to alert me to the pdf containing the variants, many of which were utilized in this game.) With the auction, those in poor galaxy positions would be compensated by starting with additional Trade Goods to boost their starting economies. Race selection remained separate from galaxy generation, but giving up Trade Goods to other players increased the number of options available instead of leaving things to a single random draw. The full version of home position and race auction might be interesting to use for the next game.
The only reason I went all out on red was the immediate need for combat boosting stuff in the face of Mentak, then possibly Hacan aggression. By that point I was so deep into it that I grabbed all the end stuff. Plus it's always been a little fantasy of mine to use a super PDS system with all the techs as a cool area-denial super fortress. The triple planet system was begging for that.
Yellow is probably the least useful color to get into. Enviro Compensator and Nanotech are good, but not dead end tier 3 good. Sarween Tools is decent, but not worth wasting a tech getting transfab. The only yellow tech I'd consider buying is Micro Tech early on.
Green has the best spread out stuff (seriously though Dacxive Animators needs to be tier 1).
But overall, depending on what you start out with, but I'd say the best bet is to either go deep into blue or get warsuns. Those are the game-winners. The only problem with Blue is the completely worthless first 2 tiers. But if you can get one of the drive techs and lightwave, you're golden. To get to those delicious deserts, you have to power through the anti-mass deflector brussels sprouts.
Warsuns are great because not only are they the most efficient combat ship combined with a carrier combined with 4 dreadnauts worth of bombardment, but it's like getting XRD drives included since it's giving you a 2 movement capacity ship.
I don't get why Advanced Fighters has such monumental prerequisites. They don't need a carrier, but without a carrier you can't invade. And without a carrier, they're subject to normal fleet supply limits which negates one of the primary strengths of fighters. Take away the need for a carrier, and it's just cybernetics with 6 prerequisite techs. If you're going to be getting that much tech for a combat unit, why not just get warsuns for only 4 flexible prerequisites?
I'd almost reckon to just make Warsuns a tier 4 yellow tech.
[2 VP] Regulator: I am blockading or have destroyed Space Docks controlled by two different players this turn.
[2 VP] Expansionist: I control 8 systems outside of my Home System. I "control" a system if I have at least one (non-Fighter) ship there, and I control every planet in the system.
Posts
@mrbody up.
I'll pass next turn.
The Winnu: Pass turn.
The Emirates of Hacan: Activate the empty Teenage Wasteland system. (CP 3 --> 2)
Move in 4 Dreadnoughts, 1 Carrier, and 4 Fighters from the Mecatol Rex system.
The Arborec: Activate the Hacan Home System. (CP 5 --> 4)
Move in 2 Dreadnoughts and 1 Ground Force from the Wormhole Nexus and 1 Cruiser and 1 Shock Troop from Lodor.
During the space battle, Arborec loses 2 Dreadnoughts, 1 Cruiser, 1 Shock Troop, and 1 Ground Force while Hacan loses 1 Destroyer, 1 Carrier, and 3 Fighters; combat resolves in favor of Hacan.
Use the Fleet Logistics technology to make a second tactical action, activating the empty Grace system. (CP 4 --> 3)
Move in 1 Carrier and 5 Fighters from Capha.
The Yssaril Tribes: Play Action Card "Local Unrest", targeting Lesab and returning it to neutral status. (AC 11 --> 10)
The Emirates of Hacan: Activate the Hacan Home System. (CP 2 --> 1)
Move in 1 Cruiser from Arinam-Meer and load 1 Ground Force from Arretze.
Land 1 Ground Force on Hercant.
Exhaust Arretze (2R), Quann (2R), Saudor (2R), Arinam (1R), 7 Trade Goods (TG 7 --> 0), +1R from Sarween Tools to build 1 Dreadnought (5R) and 3 Cruisers (6R) at Arretze and a Space Dock (4R) at Hercant.
The Arborec: Pass turn.
The Yssaril Tribes: Use racial ability to skip turn.
The Emirates of Hacan: Play Action Card "Local Unrest", targeting Thibah, removing an Arborec Ground Force and returning the planet to neutral status.
The Yssaril Tribes: Play Action Card "Alien Technology", exhausting Ashtroth (2R) and Tequ'ran (2R) to gain Gen Synthesis. (AC 10 --> 9)
The Emirates of Hacan: Activate the Mecatol Rex system. (CP 2 --> 1)
Use 1R from Sarween Tools to build 2 Fighters (1R) at Mecatol Rex.
Current Map: Round 8, Action Phase Update 6
Current Technologies
Victory Points and Objectives
The Winnu: 7 VP
The Arborec: 7 VP
The Mentak Coalition: 6 VP
The Yssaril Tribes: 3 VP
The Clan of Saar: 3 VP
Public Objectives
[1 VP] I won a Space Battle against at least 3 opposing ships in one system this turn.: Mentak, Winnu, Saar, Hacan, Arborec
[1 VP] I now spend 3 Command Counters from my Command and/or Strategy Allocation areas.: Winnu, Mentak, Arborec
[1 VP] I control Mecatol Rex.: Mentak, Winnu, Hacan
[1 VP] I successfully invaded one planet containing at least 1 opposing Ground Force or Mechanized Unit this turn.: Yssaril, Hacan, Mentak, Winnu, Arborec
[1 VP] I have 5 Technology Advances.: Hacan, Winnu, Mentak, Saar, Arborec, Yssaril
[1 VP] I control 5 planets outside my Home System.: Mentak, Yssaril, Winnu, Saar, Arborec
[2 VP] I have 5 Technology Advances of the same color.
[GAME OVER] Imperium Rex: As soon as this card is revealed, the game ends immediately. The player with the most victory points wins the game. RED TAPE
[2 VP] I control the Mecatol Rex system and at least 3 systems adjacent to it. I "control" a system if I have at least one (non-Fighter) ship there, and I control every planet in the system. RED TAPE
[WIN] Domination!: I control all the planets in the Home Systems of two other players and have at least 4 (non-Fighter) ships in each.
[2 VP] I won two Space Battles this turn, each in different systems and against at least 3 opposing ships.: Hacan, Arborec
Secret Objectives
The Emirates of Hacan: [2 VP] Usurper: I control Mecatol Rex; I have a Space Dock and at least 6 Ground Forces or Mechanized Units here.
The Arborec: 1 Secret Objective
The Clan of Saar: 1 Secret Objective
The Winnu: 1 Secret Objective
The Mentak Coalition: 1 Secret Objective
The Yssaril Tribes: 1 Secret Objective
Special Objectives
Corrupt Empire - The next player to attack Saar gains 1 Victory Point. This card is then discarded from play. Winnu
The Emirates of Hacan - robinlambert
Action Cards: 5
Political Cards: 4
Strategy Allocation: 1
Fleet Supply: 8
Command Pool: 1
Trade Contracts: (Hacan [3], Hacan [3])
Technology: Sarween Tools, Neural Computing, Neural Motivator, Hypermetabolism, Stasis Capsules, Cybernetics, Assault Cannon, Duranium Armor, Hylar V Assault Laser, Production Centers, Quantum Datahub Node
Worlds:
X - Arretze (2R, 0I)
X - Hercant (1R, 1I)
R - Kamdorn (0R, 1I)
X - Mecatol Rex (1R, 6I)
X - Arinam (1R, 2I, B)
R - Meer (0R, 4I)
X - Quann (2R, 1I, G)
X - Saudor (2R, 2I)
Action Cards: 2
Political Cards: 1
Strategy Allocation: 0
Fleet Supply: 6
Command Pool: 5
Trade Contracts: Mentak [1], Yssaril [2]
Technology: Gen Synthesis, Stasis Capsules, Neural Computing, Neural Motivator, Hyper Metabolism, Fleet Logistics, Type IV Drive, Duranium Armor, Spore Acceleration
Worlds:
X - Nestphar (3R, 2I, G)
X - Capha (3R, 0I)
X - Cormund (2R, 0I)
X - Lodor (3R, 1I, G)
X - Mallice (0R, 3I)
Action Cards: 7
Political Cards: 5
Strategy Allocation: 0
Fleet Supply: 6
Command Pool: 4
Trade Contracts: Yssaril [1] (Saar [2])
Technology: Antimass Deflectors, Maneuvering Jets, Gravity Drive, Light/Wave Deflector, Cybernetics, Neural Computing, Assault Cannon, Duranium Armor
Worlds:
R - Lisis II (1R, 0I)
R - Ragh (2R, 1I)
X - Lazar (1R, 0I)
R - Mehar Xull (1R, 3I, B)
R - Qucen'n (1R, 2I)
X - Rarron (0R, 3I, G)
X - Sakulag (2R, 1I)
X - Tar'mann (1R, 1I)
Action Cards: 0
Political Cards: 4
Strategy Allocation: 1
Fleet Supply: 7
Command Pool: 2
Trade Contracts: (Winnu [3], Winnu [1])
Technology: Stasis Capsules, Neural Computing, Neural Motivator, Hypermetabolism, X-89 Bacterial Weapon, Fleet Logistics, Type IV Drive, XRD Transporters, Duranium Armor, Micro Technology, War Sun, Bioptic Recyclers
Worlds:
R - Winnu (3R, 4I, Y)
X - Moll Primus (4R, 1I)
X - Garbozia (2R, 1I, G)
X - Hercalor (1R, 0I, Y)
R - Industrex (2R, 0I, R (x2))
R - Tiamat (1R, 2I, Y)
R - Wellon (1R, 2I)
Action Cards: 2
Political Cards: 4
Strategy Allocation: 0
Fleet Supply: 7
Command Pool: 3
Trade Contracts: Arborec [1] (Mentak [1])
Technology: Micro Technology, Transit Diodes, Gen Synthesis, Stasis Capsules, X-89 Bacterial Weapon, Cybernetics, Neural Motivator, Magen Defense Grid
Worlds:
(None)
Action Cards: 9
Political Cards: 5
Strategy Allocation: 0
Fleet Supply: 8
Command Pool: 1
Trade Contracts: Arborec [2], Saar [1]
Technology: Light/Wave Deflector, Magen Defense Grid, Deep Space Cannon, Graviton Laser System, Hylar V Assault Laser, Graviton Negator, Cybernetics, Mageon Implants
Worlds:
R - Retillion (2R, 3I)
R - Shalloq (1R, 2I)
X - Abaddon (1R, 0I, R)
X - Ashtroth (2R, 0I)
X - El'nath (2R, 0I, B)
X - Loki (1R, 2I)
X - Primor (2R, 1I, GF (x2))
X - Tequ'ran (2R, 0I, R)
X - Torkan (0R, 3I, B)
Neutral Worlds and Special Effects
X - Thibah (1R, 1I)
Order of Play
The Mentak Coalition: (1) Leadership PASSED
The Arborec: (2) Diplomacy II PASSED
The Clan of Saar: (3) Assembly PASSED
The Yssaril Tribes: (5) Trade II Current Player
The Winnu: (6) Warfare II PASSED
The Emirates of Hacan: (7) Technology II
Nothing to stop Hacan.
No funny ACs?
It's just up to @MrBody to pass.
Yeah I'll PASS then.
Man, considering how many action cards I had, I just had garbage: 2x In the Silence of Space, some cards that only work with warsuns, and the ability to cancel all trade contracts including my own (yay?).
All hail Hacan. Now about running those Mentak camps...
Claim the 2VP "I have 5 techs of the same color" objective for status phase.
But we don't.
Claim the 2VP "I have 5 techs of the same color" objective for status phase.
The Yssaril Tribes: Pass turn.
The Emirates of Hacan: Pass turn.
Claim Objectives
The Mentak Coalition: Does not control homeworld, cannot claim objectives.
The Arborec: [2 VP] I have 5 Technology Advances of the same color. (VP 7 --> 9)
The Clan of Saar: [2 VP] I have 5 Technology Advances of the same color. (VP 3 --> 5)
The Yssaril Tribes: [2 VP] I have 5 Technology Advances of the same color. (VP 3 --> 5)
The Winnu: Does not control homeworld, cannot claim objectives.
The Emirates of Hacan: [2 VP] I have 5 Technology Advances of the same color. (VP 8 --> 10)
The Emirates of Hacan have achieved 10 Victory Points and are recognized as galactic rulers!
Final Victory Points and Objectives
The Arborec: 9 VP
The Winnu: 7 VP
The Mentak Coalition: 6 VP
The Yssaril Tribes: 5 VP
The Clan of Saar: 5 VP
Public Objectives
[1 VP] I won a Space Battle against at least 3 opposing ships in one system this turn.: Mentak, Winnu, Saar, Hacan, Arborec
[1 VP] I now spend 3 Command Counters from my Command and/or Strategy Allocation areas.: Winnu, Mentak, Arborec
[1 VP] I control Mecatol Rex.: Mentak, Winnu, Hacan
[1 VP] I successfully invaded one planet containing at least 1 opposing Ground Force or Mechanized Unit this turn.: Yssaril, Hacan, Mentak, Winnu, Arborec
[1 VP] I have 5 Technology Advances.: Hacan, Winnu, Mentak, Saar, Arborec, Yssaril
[1 VP] I control 5 planets outside my Home System.: Mentak, Yssaril, Winnu, Saar, Arborec
[2 VP] I have 5 Technology Advances of the same color.: Arborec, Saar, Yssaril, Hacan
[GAME OVER] Imperium Rex: As soon as this card is revealed, the game ends immediately. The player with the most victory points wins the game. RED TAPE
[2 VP] I control the Mecatol Rex system and at least 3 systems adjacent to it. I "control" a system if I have at least one (non-Fighter) ship there, and I control every planet in the system. RED TAPE
[WIN] Domination!: I control all the planets in the Home Systems of two other players and have at least 4 (non-Fighter) ships in each.
[2 VP] I won two Space Battles this turn, each in different systems and against at least 3 opposing ships.: Hacan, Arborec
Secret Objectives
The Emirates of Hacan: [2 VP] Usurper: I control Mecatol Rex; I have a Space Dock and at least 6 Ground Forces or Mechanized Units here.
The Arborec: 1 Secret Objective
The Clan of Saar: 1 Secret Objective
The Winnu: 1 Secret Objective
The Mentak Coalition: 1 Secret Objective
The Yssaril Tribes: 1 Secret Objective
Special Objectives
Corrupt Empire - The next player to attack Saar gains 1 Victory Point. This card is then discarded from play. Winnu
Wins: NBN; Jenny Barnes; Emperor of Mankind; Werewolf (posthumous), Gregor; Colonel Mustard; USSR
Losses: Silas Marsh Bob Jenkins; Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle; House Harkonnen; Stark; Beravor; Scientist, Dispatcher; Universities of Jol-Nar, Winnu
So was the "5 techs of the same color" objective the only thing keeping everyone from getting warsuns? The new tech tree makes it very easy. Each race starts off only 2 techs away from it. The only reason I never went for it was starting with only 1 tech. Yssaril are actually balanced now with the new tree; only 1 starting tech and no more XRD. L1z1x seem like they've also been balanced now that they don't start with a billion techs. I can't imagine going back to the old tech tree after this one. Gen Synthesis should probably be house ruled though *cough*. Gravity Drive also remains situationally broken.
I don't think I've ever seen a game where Hacan wasn't a top contender. Other races have been balanced through starting tech changes, but a big chunk of Hacan's strength comes from their racial tech production centers, which is probably the single best racial tech in the game.
Not sure what to think of the red tape rule.
What's everyone's thoughts on a variant that only used public objectives? I never felt like S.O.'s added much to the game. Experienced players can spot pretty quickly what someone is going for, and a lot of them are crazy unequal in terms of difficulty.
Be interesting to see a game using the trimmed action/political decks. So much chaff. Flank Speed and that "every cruiser causes a free pre-emptive hit" are bonkers.
I really like optional rules we used in this game. The tech tree, for the most part, was great. But the 5 Tech objective wasn't holding me back...I was just really enjoying using some techs that I have not used before to this extent. And at first I was upset that I only started with one tech (and actually, I never did get the other normal starting tech). I don't want to go back to the other tree either. I very much agree about Gravity Drive and am glad it was much harder to get on this tree. Hate that tech.
I also thought the way we chose Home Systems and Races was excellent and have used it in all my table top games since starting this.
As for the Red Tape, I didn't mind it - it added another layer of planning and negotiations to the game. Maybe that is good, maybe not.
I like SOs but maybe a game without them would be an interesting experiment. And I did like the Draw 2, Choose 1 aspect of this game. The alleviated the inequality a bit I think.
What SOs did everyone else have? Was the choice hard at the beginning?
And I thought this WAS the trimmed action/political deck? Would you like to see it trimmed more MrBody?
I strongly approved of red tape (felt much more strategic, especially for a forum game), but I dunno about the tech tree. I don't like the original tech tree either, though, maybe I'm just picky.
Good game everyone!
I made a few mistakes, mostly assuming that Hacan would attack a weakened Yssaril, instead of allowing them to rebuild. Still think that was strange.
I did not like the new tech tree, personally. I won't be playing with it again.
Maybe I'll post some more thoughts later.
I definitely noticed the trimmed decks, as there was far fewer cards I could casually dismiss. The rebalanced tech tree I'm unsure of; I'd have to play with it a bit more. It at least makes some choices much harder. Lots of no-brainer techs in the base tree are now behind some less useful techs to make you really have to comit to get them, except for war suns of course. :P
Never really seen Gen Synthesis used to defend home worlds, and yeah that's pretty crazy.
Wins: NBN; Jenny Barnes; Emperor of Mankind; Werewolf (posthumous), Gregor; Colonel Mustard; USSR
Losses: Silas Marsh Bob Jenkins; Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle; House Harkonnen; Stark; Beravor; Scientist, Dispatcher; Universities of Jol-Nar, Winnu
In my own defence, other than just saying 'it worked for me!' but there was absolutely no incentive for me to engage Yssaril. I was extremely lucky in that the Saar also occupied the Arborec and so I was allowed to focus on my objectives. Had I engaged Yssaril, the only thing I could see it doing was making you AND Winnu stronger. Your alliance was scary and the only one on the board. I needed the guerrilla tactics of the Yssaril to keep you honest. Now, had Mentak made any ovature to attack the Yssaril, I would have had to listen, but I didn't feel there was one.
How is this different from the other tree?
What I like about it is that for 90% of I can see a "logical" tech increase. I like it a lot and never want to go back.
MrBlarney, what did you think?
I'll give some opinions on what has already been stated by others, starting with the alternate Tech Tree. I still like the core ideas of the alternate Tree, though the implementation wasn't perfect. The fact that the average depth of technologies is shallower than in the standard tree and that there is a harder amount of specialization built into the tree appeals to me. I actually don't mind that War Sun can be achievable by more races, since it's the same 'depth' as it was on the standard tree, but some races are closer to it at the start. On the other hand, the green side of the Tech Tree is indeed a bit too strong while the weak first tier yellow technologies seemed to turn everyone away from them. I'm leaning in favor of the alternate tree, but more testing and thought is going to be necessary. I'd rather not have to modify the text of the technologies since that might be a step too much - I'd prefer only to do one of modifying the text or modifying the structure - but it might be a good thing to consider.
We were indeed using the trimmed Action and Political card decks, fifty cards from the Action deck to take it from 170 to 120 and fifty cards from the Political deck to take it from 110 to 60. Overall, I'm pretty pleased with the effects of the trimming. The sizes of the decks were good (25 cards left in the Action card deck and 29 left in the Political card deck). I'm actually collecting other peoples' opinions on what cards should be kept and what should be trimmed, so if you're interested in helping me create some kind of consensus, give me a PM and I'll link you some things.
On the topic of Secret Objectives, I wonder how well an Exclusive Objectives variant would work. In this variant, a number of Secret Objective cards are dealt out face up as a common pool at the start of the game; each player may claim any of the objectives if they satisfy the conditions, but may only claim one Objective. Once an Exclusive (née Secret) Objective has been claimed, no other players may claim it. It might work better with the Preliminary Objectives from the Shards of the Throne expansion, which are worth only 1 VP but are easier to satisfy; Secret Objectives tend to require a much larger plan to execute, so competition over an Exclusive Secret Objective could be devastating for a player who gets scooped by another.
I really like that exclusive idea. Could be done for both preliminary and secret objectives really.
EDIT: Ah, and since I missed Kaneski's post when I was posting (I guess I forgot to refresh and had the draft sitting here for a while), the reasons outlined in his post are exactly why I think using Preliminary Objectives as Exclusive Objectives is a better idea since they require less commitment.
Mine were "have all space docks and all dreadnauts deployed AND control mecatol rex" or "occupy an enemy homeworld". After getting stuck with the former last game, I figured go with the latter. Well, we all see what Gen Synthesis did to that. It took 2 back to back invasions (the 2nd an uncontested space battle) with a combined 3 mech units, 10 ground forces, warsun + 3 dreadnaut bombardment AND bacterial weapon to overcome a mere 5 ground units.
Notice though how nail-biting and and tense this game was, with no one claiming any SOs except only one player at the very end. I don't think it's coincidence that an almost total lack of SOs led to a far more interesting game.
With the red tape...I still don't know. I think I would love it if it was altered so that somehow you wouldn't be able to end the game at the halfway point just by choosing Bureaucracy and choosing Imperium Rex. That action card banning Bureaucracy made it a lot more interesting by preventing that earlier ending. I do agree that with hidden objectives, it's a big luck swing on which stage IIs come up, so maybe going back to the old gradual reveal of objectives, but changing Bureaucracy primary to "look at the top 2 objectives, reveal 1 and return the other either to the top or bottom of the deck" to give more incentive to choosing Bureaucracy by drastically altering the objectives.
The new galaxy creation + race selection system: I'm not sure because I think the races are a lot more balanced now (though Hacan are still powerful, and Xxcha/Saar/Winnu still get the short end of the stick). The thing with map setup, is that having an impassible red system to the coreword space adjacent to your homeworld almost always totally kills your chance at winning. Every game I've played where that happens, the affected players always ended up in the last place. It's a situation much more likely to happen with this setup and the one person stuck with it is screwed no matter which race he gets. I think the best to worst galaxy creation methods go (all experienced players + standard galaxy creation rules) > (new/mixed experienced players + new creation rules) > (new/mixed experienced players + standard creation rules). With a bunch of experienced players knowing each race's "ranking", there's more self-balancing during galaxy creation. The races still aren't totally equal, but there's nothing as blatant as base game Yssaril anymore.
Didn't realize we were already playing with a trimmed deck! Me and Blarney were discussing further trimming. Not sure what he decided on. Personally I think all the cards requiring warsuns could be trimmed (they're useless 90% of the time, and even when you have a warsun they're not any more useful than other cards), as well as Flank Speed (way too powerful, zero warning), the ones that sabotage a space dock (ruins the game for a player if played on them in the first round), and all the Shards of the Throne ones that say "if not playing with X rule, count as 1 trade good instead" simply because 1 TG is weak for an action card and most of the SotT rules don't get used. As far as political cards, "Everyone gets waruns" does little but totally screw over a Muaat player.
Under no circumstance should anyone ever play with the political representatives rule :x
That's not really a problem with secret objectives, though, is it? Better to change Gen Synthesis.
I'll post a recap of all the house rules we play with later. Might prove inspirational, I don't know. We have, I'm guessing, around 75 plays behind our belts, so I feel they've become reasonably balanced over the last ten (what) years.
Occupying an enemy homeworld is actually one of the easier secret objectives. That's why I took it! Little did I know about infinite regenerating T-1000 ground troops.
Like I said, it's the huge gap in difficulty between the secret objectives that's the problem. Map-dependent ones are either really easy or impossible. "Hold Mecatol with X" where X can be anything from a mere 6 ground forces or a whole 5 dreadnauts. "Capture an enemy homeworld" is objectively easier than "destroy an enemy's last space dock" since the bare minimum for that is capturing their homeworld (unless someone else captures their homeworld first, which is entirely out of your hands).
Changing Bureaucracy to state "Look at the top 2 Objectives. Reveal one and return the other to the top or bottom of the Objective Deck" could end the game very quickly if there isn't a caveat requiring all Stage 1 cards to be revealed first. Otherwise, Imperium Rex could come up as soon as Round 3 if Bureaucracy is selected each round, all unrevealed objectives are buried, and Imperium Rex is at the top of the Stage II stack. The
As for galaxy creation, the home position+race draft was simplified for expediency in the forum format; originally, the variant from which I drew my variant had a home position and race auction instead. (I think MrBody was the one to alert me to the pdf containing the variants, many of which were utilized in this game.) With the auction, those in poor galaxy positions would be compensated by starting with additional Trade Goods to boost their starting economies. Race selection remained separate from galaxy generation, but giving up Trade Goods to other players increased the number of options available instead of leaving things to a single random draw. The full version of home position and race auction might be interesting to use for the next game.
The only reason I went all out on red was the immediate need for combat boosting stuff in the face of Mentak, then possibly Hacan aggression. By that point I was so deep into it that I grabbed all the end stuff. Plus it's always been a little fantasy of mine to use a super PDS system with all the techs as a cool area-denial super fortress. The triple planet system was begging for that.
Yellow is probably the least useful color to get into. Enviro Compensator and Nanotech are good, but not dead end tier 3 good. Sarween Tools is decent, but not worth wasting a tech getting transfab. The only yellow tech I'd consider buying is Micro Tech early on.
Green has the best spread out stuff (seriously though Dacxive Animators needs to be tier 1).
But overall, depending on what you start out with, but I'd say the best bet is to either go deep into blue or get warsuns. Those are the game-winners. The only problem with Blue is the completely worthless first 2 tiers. But if you can get one of the drive techs and lightwave, you're golden. To get to those delicious deserts, you have to power through the anti-mass deflector brussels sprouts.
Warsuns are great because not only are they the most efficient combat ship combined with a carrier combined with 4 dreadnauts worth of bombardment, but it's like getting XRD drives included since it's giving you a 2 movement capacity ship.
I don't get why Advanced Fighters has such monumental prerequisites. They don't need a carrier, but without a carrier you can't invade. And without a carrier, they're subject to normal fleet supply limits which negates one of the primary strengths of fighters. Take away the need for a carrier, and it's just cybernetics with 6 prerequisite techs. If you're going to be getting that much tech for a combat unit, why not just get warsuns for only 4 flexible prerequisites?
I'd almost reckon to just make Warsuns a tier 4 yellow tech.
[2 VP] Expansionist: I control 8 systems outside of my Home System. I "control" a system if I have at least one (non-Fighter) ship there, and I control every planet in the system.
Took Expansionist.