I want to watch a detective show where Tywin goes around solving murders now
Every episode ends with him locking up someone who may or may not have actually done it, but is really useful to the Lannisters to get blamed for it
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
So in Alan Sepinwall's review of tonight's episode he has exceprt of an interview he did with the director of the episode that basically says that they intend for that scene to be read the same as it is in the books, where it starts with Jaime getting rough but turns consensual by the end.
So in Alan Sepinwall's review of tonight's episode he has exceprt of an interview he did with the director of the episode that basically says that they intend for that scene to be read the same as it is in the books, where it starts with Jaime getting rough but turns consensual by the end.
Too bad it dosen't play that way at all.
this wouldn't have happened if michelle maclaren was directing
This just proves the point that she should direct everything
Mr. G on
0
Options
Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I loved everything about that episode except for those 20 seconds but man those 20 seconds.
Like all it would have taken was to end the scene 20 seconds earlier (or have it go 10 seconds longer to make it clear what's actually happening) but nope
@Mr. G and others who might want a map of where the hell Dany is: I took a bare bones Westeros/Essos map and using my old friend MS Paint added her path (roughly) as well as what episode it was when she was there.
(Spoilered for people who want to know nothing of the geography. But when I say "bare bones" I mean this map doesn't even include city names.)
+4
Options
I Win Swordfightsall the traits of greatnessstarlight at my feetRegistered Userregular
yeah other then the jamie/cersei scene this was a good episode
kind of surprised they went with that as-is
Yeah I'm really really perplexed by that scene, and how they could miss the mark so badly
Especially out of what was otherwise a pretty great episode of a great season so far
book spoilers
Plus this scene has pretty much destroyed the eventual impact of Jaime eventually choosing (finally!) not to go rescue Cersei
Like that's a huge character moment for Jaime because he's always prioritized his family's, and especially Cersei's, interests above his own
Making him rape her means none of that makes sense anymore. It throws a massive wrench into his entire journey, it makes Brienne look like an idiot, it's just... really bad
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
uuuh I didn't see any kind of rape here, she was kissing him back?
was that really badly directed? I watched with a non-book person and she didn't see anything remotely resembling rape
but I'm disappointed they didn't pull Joff on top of them because that would have been so hilarious
In the book, she says "no, no, not here" and then quickly moves to "yes, yes, hurry, do me, Jaime, Jaime, Jaime." and physically initiaties the actual sex herself.
knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
I want to say there's been more than a few times on the show where book readers have been all "WTF?" and the show runners insist that they followed the books exactly for that scene.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
When Sansa was climbing up that ladder and I knew Littlefinger was going to be revealed I was flipping out. Husband had a big HOLY SHIT moment when he saw who it was. Littlefinger is so fucking creepy and I loooooove it.
As far as that one scene with Cersei/Jamie, I was very irritated. Didn't read the way that the books did at all, least not for me
yes it wasn't rape but there was a lot of reluctance on her part, not for the sex itself but the place and time, things change at the end but how in the world you're gonna show the "guiding him in" part in tv?
and that yes yes yes do me uuuugh that's some terrible dialogue, now I'm not sure if I'm happy they left it out or sad
now what I'm not sure about is if that was simply bad direction or they ARE going to change, explicitly and on purpose, sex into rape for the sake of who knows what plot?
I'm not as angry as some people because a lot of people by that point are sympathetic to Jamie because of his relationship with Brienne and because he lost his hand but this was the guy who pushed a child from a tower, he will be forever a villain to me.
Tywin Lannister is a great man and a greater grandfather.
Westeros should be so lucky to have him as a patron.
Except for all of the infanticide, mass murder and homophobia, sure, Tywin's a pretty okay guy.
Tywin is most definitely not a great guy
But that's different than being a Great Man
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Im gonna straight up say it, in the books, having that be a moment where Cersei is depraved, was just another example of why book Cersei is a one-dimensional bore compared to show Cersei.
It wasnt rapey for "jamie is evil and a rapist" sake, it was a conflicted scene, and in it both characters are trying to relive and revive things that are gone forever. Even if Jamie is essentially raping her, there are thematic and character reasons why hes doing it, and it made sense and doesnt compromise his character, it makes his journey darker, but he got off too lightly in the books for me.
The scene worked for both characters, it doesnt paint Jamie as purely a rapist, thats not what the scene is doing. And frankly the book scene was just ridiculous and eye rollingly lame. This one had more nuance, theres a lot going on beyond the rapey sex. Its Jamie trying force himself to choose sides between his sister and his brother, and given how the scene ends, its obvious that hes not really going to choose his sister. Hes essentially saying he loves her, but I dont think he believes it anymore, hes trying to force himself to believe it. Whereas Cersei doesnt care about him anymore, and wants him to do what she says. They are no longer equals, they are both spiralling apart. The book made Jamie far too sympathetic and the whole thing very one sided. The show did it better.
I already know im going to get slammed for this, but Jamie is a character who is essentially not a good dude, and it takes more than getting your hand chopped off to change your personality. The 'sex' scene had something to say, it wasnt just him wanting to get off, he was essentially trying to "fuck" their relationship back to what it was. This is a guy that has always gotten what he wants through force, and has only ever loved one woman, and only ever had sex with one woman, and now those things are falling apart.
If Cersei had gone from that Tywin scene, to fucking Jamie, as it was in the book, it wouldnt have shown her depravity, it would have shown incongruous insanity. In this her depravity is shown by her demanding Jamie kill Tyrion, and Jamie's conflict and confusion at this is shown by him ignoring her, in multiple ways. And what Jamie does is understandable, its disgusting and its rape, but its understandble from a character pov and where he is in the show. Which is better than the books. In the books his redemption is far too quick and far too clean.
Saying "WELP JAMIES A RAPIST NOW" is not really a good summary of that scene.
Posts
Every episode ends with him locking up someone who may or may not have actually done it, but is really useful to the Lannisters to get blamed for it
you're one of us now
Not yet.
Too bad it dosen't play that way at all.
kind of surprised they went with that as-is
this wouldn't have happened if michelle maclaren was directing
This just proves the point that she should direct everything
I know.
Like all it would have taken was to end the scene 20 seconds earlier (or have it go 10 seconds longer to make it clear what's actually happening) but nope
Yeah I was kinda confused at how rapey that got.
To reach the West, girl gotta go East.
(Spoilered for people who want to know nothing of the geography. But when I say "bare bones" I mean this map doesn't even include city names.)
That said, (right now at least) I can't say I want to rewatch it.
Steam
Yeah I'm really really perplexed by that scene, and how they could miss the mark so badly
Especially out of what was otherwise a pretty great episode of a great season so far
book spoilers
Like that's a huge character moment for Jaime because he's always prioritized his family's, and especially Cersei's, interests above his own
Making him rape her means none of that makes sense anymore. It throws a massive wrench into his entire journey, it makes Brienne look like an idiot, it's just... really bad
was that really badly directed? I watched with a non-book person and she didn't see anything remotely resembling rape
but I'm disappointed they didn't pull Joff on top of them because that would have been so hilarious
http://www.powernapcomic.com
That's pretty rapey.
http://www.powernapcomic.com
In the book, she says "no, no, not here" and then quickly moves to "yes, yes, hurry, do me, Jaime, Jaime, Jaime." and physically initiaties the actual sex herself.
none of that latter part happens on the show.
http://www.powernapcomic.com
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
As far as that one scene with Cersei/Jamie, I was very irritated. Didn't read the way that the books did at all, least not for me
Also, let's get some Ser Pounce in this show.
I miss Hot Pie.
Westeros should be so lucky to have him as a patron.
yes it wasn't rape but there was a lot of reluctance on her part, not for the sex itself but the place and time, things change at the end but how in the world you're gonna show the "guiding him in" part in tv?
and that yes yes yes do me uuuugh that's some terrible dialogue, now I'm not sure if I'm happy they left it out or sad
now what I'm not sure about is if that was simply bad direction or they ARE going to change, explicitly and on purpose, sex into rape for the sake of who knows what plot?
I'm not as angry as some people because a lot of people by that point are sympathetic to Jamie because of his relationship with Brienne and because he lost his hand but this was the guy who pushed a child from a tower, he will be forever a villain to me.
http://www.powernapcomic.com
Except for all of the infanticide, mass murder and homophobia, sure, Tywin's a pretty okay guy.
Tywin is most definitely not a great guy
But that's different than being a Great Man
I feel like the infanticide alone disqualifies you from being great at anything, much less Great, capital G.
But that's a personal inclination.
a magnificent bastard
http://www.powernapcomic.com
But those babies had it coming so
Are you a bad person for posting this?
Or am I a bad person for laughing at it?
Yes
It wasnt rapey for "jamie is evil and a rapist" sake, it was a conflicted scene, and in it both characters are trying to relive and revive things that are gone forever. Even if Jamie is essentially raping her, there are thematic and character reasons why hes doing it, and it made sense and doesnt compromise his character, it makes his journey darker, but he got off too lightly in the books for me.
The scene worked for both characters, it doesnt paint Jamie as purely a rapist, thats not what the scene is doing. And frankly the book scene was just ridiculous and eye rollingly lame. This one had more nuance, theres a lot going on beyond the rapey sex. Its Jamie trying force himself to choose sides between his sister and his brother, and given how the scene ends, its obvious that hes not really going to choose his sister. Hes essentially saying he loves her, but I dont think he believes it anymore, hes trying to force himself to believe it. Whereas Cersei doesnt care about him anymore, and wants him to do what she says. They are no longer equals, they are both spiralling apart. The book made Jamie far too sympathetic and the whole thing very one sided. The show did it better.
I already know im going to get slammed for this, but Jamie is a character who is essentially not a good dude, and it takes more than getting your hand chopped off to change your personality. The 'sex' scene had something to say, it wasnt just him wanting to get off, he was essentially trying to "fuck" their relationship back to what it was. This is a guy that has always gotten what he wants through force, and has only ever loved one woman, and only ever had sex with one woman, and now those things are falling apart.
If Cersei had gone from that Tywin scene, to fucking Jamie, as it was in the book, it wouldnt have shown her depravity, it would have shown incongruous insanity. In this her depravity is shown by her demanding Jamie kill Tyrion, and Jamie's conflict and confusion at this is shown by him ignoring her, in multiple ways. And what Jamie does is understandable, its disgusting and its rape, but its understandble from a character pov and where he is in the show. Which is better than the books. In the books his redemption is far too quick and far too clean.
Saying "WELP JAMIES A RAPIST NOW" is not really a good summary of that scene.