Dr. Strange as a flawed protagonist is perfectly fine. And I would like his origin adapted, because I LOVE his origin.
Super-Surgeon who get's into a car accident and loses the precise control needed to use his hands is a fantastic story beat, since he gets into a horrific accident of his own doing, miraculously survives, and the only thing he lost was the ability to perform surgery like he could in the past, and it destroyes him mentally in a way that he WISHES HE DIED, since his hands is what he equated as who he was.
You can fit a good bit of drama in that opening.
This is more or less the plot of the animated movie; better then half of it is dedicated to Strange overcoming the limits his rational mind places on him and how he needs to let go of stupid shit in his past.
GotG got a pass for being in deep space where the rules only kind of apply. They added a bridge between Earth and crazy aliens, but it was still firmly crazy alien territory. It was an additional baby-step towards a universe where the climax of the Infinity Gauntlet shit makes sense.
Marvel has demonstrated an incredible ability to organically introduce us to increasingly weirder stuff, but it needs to remain organic. I think a scene like that depicted in the comic up there could work as a climax to the Strange film, after the viewer has been eased into the world a bit, but the day Marvel decides "THERE ARE NO RULES! ANYTHING GOES!" is the day they stumble.
Alternately, they could pull a GotG in the sense that they make the movie almost completely removed from anything happening in the larger MCU, with a few nods towards it. Make it seem like Dr. Strange's world first and foremost and oh yeah I guess Iron Man was over here doing stuff you know whatevs, and the audience will probably accept it as connected without even realizing it. It'll allow them to get a little crazier because the audience won't be trying to figure out how cosmic magic fits in with robots and super-soldiers.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
GotG got a pass for being in deep space where the rules only kind of apply. They added a bridge between Earth and crazy aliens, but it was still firmly crazy alien territory. It was an additional baby-step towards a universe where the climax of the Infinity Gauntlet shit makes sense.
Marvel has demonstrated an incredible ability to organically introduce us to increasingly weirder stuff, but it needs to remain organic. I think a scene like that depicted in the comic up there could work as a climax to the Strange film, after the viewer has been eased into the world a bit, but the day Marvel decides "THERE ARE NO RULES! ANYTHING GOES!" is the day they stumble.
Alternately, they could pull a GotG in the sense that they make the movie almost completely removed from anything happening in the larger MCU, with a few nods towards it. Make it seem like Dr. Strange's world first and foremost and oh yeah I guess Iron Man was over here doing stuff you know whatevs, and the audience will probably accept it as connected without even realizing it. It'll allow them to get a little crazier because the audience won't be trying to figure out how cosmic magic fits in with robots and super-soldiers.
What made GOTG able to do that was an audience surrogate lead, Quill, and it was the origin for the team. They didn't throw the audience into the deep end with the Guardians already established. They did this with Avengers, too, minus the audience surrogate lead - that was the "prequels" setting up the main characters and world building.
Dr. Strange as a flawed protagonist is perfectly fine. And I would like his origin adapted, because I LOVE his origin.
Super-Surgeon who get's into a car accident and loses the precise control needed to use his hands is a fantastic story beat, since he gets into a horrific accident of his own doing, miraculously survives, and the only thing he lost was the ability to perform surgery like he could in the past, and it destroyes him mentally in a way that he WISHES HE DIED, since his hands is what he equated as who he was.
You can fit a good bit of drama in that opening.
This is more or less the plot of the animated movie; better then half of it is dedicated to Strange overcoming the limits his rational mind places on him and how he needs to let go of stupid shit in his past.
This depends entirely on your tolerance for Kung Fu Power Ranger Doctor Strange.
Yeah, I was never a fan of that movie. When you've taken Dr. Strange doing stuff like this:
...and reduced it to just two guys fighting with energy swords, you've done something wrong.
This is incredibly lame, though. Yelling the names of some abstract concepts and then having your opponent suddenly shrink isn't exactly compelling.
They'll have to do a lot better than that if they want to bring in the really weird stuff.
This is one of the problems I had with the Nicolas Cage Ghost Rider. He just sort of... wins. He invents new powers as necessary to defeat his enemies without any limitation or explanation. It feels like cheating. However, the Dr. Strange thing makes sense in a way.
The In-Betweener was created by Lord Chaos and Master Order, two of the fundamental forces of existence in the Marvel universe, to serve as a sort of enforcer of balance. In the sequence above, Strange has harnessed the power of the In-Betweener's creators in order to bind him within the sub-reality that the In-Betweener himself has created to fight strange.
During the course of the fight, Strange goes insane, and fights his way back to a state of utter calm, he embodies, however briefly, both Order and Chaos, allowing him to channel their power into his battle with the Inbetweener, the only two forces in all of existence against which the Inbetweener is helpless.
But all of that is beside the point, since the purpose of Dr. Strange comics is to be as weird and imaginative as possible.
What is even going on there? I haven't the least idea, but it's AWESOME!
Dr. Strange as a flawed protagonist is perfectly fine. And I would like his origin adapted, because I LOVE his origin.
Super-Surgeon who get's into a car accident and loses the precise control needed to use his hands is a fantastic story beat, since he gets into a horrific accident of his own doing, miraculously survives, and the only thing he lost was the ability to perform surgery like he could in the past, and it destroyes him mentally in a way that he WISHES HE DIED, since his hands is what he equated as who he was.
You can fit a good bit of drama in that opening.
This is more or less the plot of the animated movie; better then half of it is dedicated to Strange overcoming the limits his rational mind places on him and how he needs to let go of stupid shit in his past.
This depends entirely on your tolerance for Kung Fu Power Ranger Doctor Strange.
Yeah, I was never a fan of that movie. When you've taken Dr. Strange doing stuff like this:
...and reduced it to just two guys fighting with energy swords, you've done something wrong.
This is incredibly lame, though. Yelling the names of some abstract concepts and then having your opponent suddenly shrink isn't exactly compelling.
They'll have to do a lot better than that if they want to bring in the really weird stuff.
This is one of the problems I had with the Nicolas Cage Ghost Rider. He just sort of... wins. He invents new powers as necessary to defeat his enemies without any limitation or explanation. It feels like cheating. However, the Dr. Strange thing makes sense in a way.
The In-Betweener was created by Lord Chaos and Master Order, two of the fundamental forces of existence in the Marvel universe, to serve as a sort of enforcer of balance. In the sequence above, Strange has harnessed the power of the In-Betweener's creators in order to bind him within the sub-reality that the In-Betweener himself has created to fight strange.
During the course of the fight, Strange goes insane, and fights his way back to a state of utter calm, he embodies, however briefly, both Order and Chaos, allowing him to channel their power into his battle with the Inbetweener, the only two forces in all of existence against which the Inbetweener is helpless.
But all of that is beside the point, since the purpose of Dr. Strange comics is to be as weird and imaginative as possible.
What is even going on there? I haven't the least idea, but it's AWESOME!
Dr. Strange poured several spells on the star then his astral form was thrown backward then he put protective spells on his real body.
On a minor side note: one of the reasons to "skip" the origin story, is the Strange is already established as SOMETHING in the MCU.
he was named as an Insight target in CA2. At that point he had to already have some sort of powers, at least the beginnings thereof, to be listed as a target.
Dr Strange, excellent surgeon, probably doesn't trigger Insight, and I'm not sure how the program would know "oh hey, this guy might end up able to learn MAGIC and a whole ton of it at that"
According to Fiege, he was mentioned for being a world famous surgeon who's name Sitwell just pulled out of his butt since it's a well known name. It wasn't because he had powers. (And in fact, Sitwell mentions several other people who don't have powers in his rant)
Yeah, it's not that Insight targeted people with powers, it was designed to recognize people who would be a problem.
Basically they designed flying super fortresses that were designed to identify and potentially eliminate John Connor.
Having powers might make one more likely to be targeted, but it wasn't a prerequisite.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Dr. Strange as a flawed protagonist is perfectly fine. And I would like his origin adapted, because I LOVE his origin.
Super-Surgeon who get's into a car accident and loses the precise control needed to use his hands is a fantastic story beat, since he gets into a horrific accident of his own doing, miraculously survives, and the only thing he lost was the ability to perform surgery like he could in the past, and it destroyes him mentally in a way that he WISHES HE DIED, since his hands is what he equated as who he was.
You can fit a good bit of drama in that opening.
This is more or less the plot of the animated movie; better then half of it is dedicated to Strange overcoming the limits his rational mind places on him and how he needs to let go of stupid shit in his past.
This depends entirely on your tolerance for Kung Fu Power Ranger Doctor Strange.
Yeah, I was never a fan of that movie. When you've taken Dr. Strange doing stuff like this:
...and reduced it to just two guys fighting with energy swords, you've done something wrong.
This is incredibly lame, though. Yelling the names of some abstract concepts and then having your opponent suddenly shrink isn't exactly compelling.
They'll have to do a lot better than that if they want to bring in the really weird stuff.
This is one of the problems I had with the Nicolas Cage Ghost Rider. He just sort of... wins. He invents new powers as necessary to defeat his enemies without any limitation or explanation. It feels like cheating. However, the Dr. Strange thing makes sense in a way.
The In-Betweener was created by Lord Chaos and Master Order, two of the fundamental forces of existence in the Marvel universe, to serve as a sort of enforcer of balance. In the sequence above, Strange has harnessed the power of the In-Betweener's creators in order to bind him within the sub-reality that the In-Betweener himself has created to fight strange.
During the course of the fight, Strange goes insane, and fights his way back to a state of utter calm, he embodies, however briefly, both Order and Chaos, allowing him to channel their power into his battle with the Inbetweener, the only two forces in all of existence against which the Inbetweener is helpless.
But all of that is beside the point, since the purpose of Dr. Strange comics is to be as weird and imaginative as possible.
What is even going on there? I haven't the least idea, but it's AWESOME!
Dr. Strange poured several spells on the star then his astral form was thrown backward then he put protective spells on his real body.
I know that. It's from the Inbetweener fight. I was more pointing out that Dr. Strange is supposed to be surreal and pretty visually outlandish.
It helps that Strange is essentially Marvel's very own Doctor Who, complete with a rotating cast of companions and apprentices who can ask questions about magic and what's going on that Strange can then answer. He's got built in mechanics that can easily fill you in on his backstory while taking up relatively little time.
And much like Doctor Who, Strange's powers and knowledge shift with the needs of the plot.
It's up to the writer to establish his limitations and strengths in magic, that's what Whedon did do well with Avengers - he established what they can do before writing the screenplay. Magic isn't like anything else in fiction, writers have to work on the rules that are consistent otherwise they'll end up with duex ex machine. Doctor Who keeps the tension with good writing by doing this.
A few years ago, I remember reading that one of the reasons Marvel had kept Strange off-stage so much was that they were planning to completely revamp and define Marvel's systems of magic. I believe that Kieron Gillen was working on the project, but I haven't heard anything about it in years.
Bendis was writing Avengers in that period. Magic isn't his forte, as talented as he is that's outside his wheelhouse. No wonder he sidelined Dr. Strange. Not all writers do this, though they might retcon subjects if they feel it's required. That's why it's vital for writers to have a plan set up for Dr. Strange's magic and the magic system before putting him in stories.
Wasn't Bendis the one who said there wasn't such a thing as chaos magic?
GotG got a pass for being in deep space where the rules only kind of apply. They added a bridge between Earth and crazy aliens, but it was still firmly crazy alien territory. It was an additional baby-step towards a universe where the climax of the Infinity Gauntlet shit makes sense.
Marvel has demonstrated an incredible ability to organically introduce us to increasingly weirder stuff, but it needs to remain organic. I think a scene like that depicted in the comic up there could work as a climax to the Strange film, after the viewer has been eased into the world a bit, but the day Marvel decides "THERE ARE NO RULES! ANYTHING GOES!" is the day they stumble.
Alternately, they could pull a GotG in the sense that they make the movie almost completely removed from anything happening in the larger MCU, with a few nods towards it. Make it seem like Dr. Strange's world first and foremost and oh yeah I guess Iron Man was over here doing stuff you know whatevs, and the audience will probably accept it as connected without even realizing it. It'll allow them to get a little crazier because the audience won't be trying to figure out how cosmic magic fits in with robots and super-soldiers.
What made GOTG able to do that was an audience surrogate lead, Quill, and it was the origin for the team. They didn't throw the audience into the deep end with the Guardians already established. They did this with Avengers, too, minus the audience surrogate lead - that was the "prequels" setting up the main characters and world building.
Well, that pertains to how they introduced the characters. But the world had no real lead-in. We get ten minutes of OMGSAD on Earth, then Quill is stomping around to 70s rock while singing into an alien rodent and playing with sci-fi tech and then weird aliens accost him and then oh hey a raccoon is yelling at his pet tree and I don't even. All of which they could do because this was in some weird part of the galaxy that had dick to do with Earth, so anything goes.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
It helps that Strange is essentially Marvel's very own Doctor Who, complete with a rotating cast of companions and apprentices who can ask questions about magic and what's going on that Strange can then answer. He's got built in mechanics that can easily fill you in on his backstory while taking up relatively little time.
And much like Doctor Who, Strange's powers and knowledge shift with the needs of the plot.
It's up to the writer to establish his limitations and strengths in magic, that's what Whedon did do well with Avengers - he established what they can do before writing the screenplay. Magic isn't like anything else in fiction, writers have to work on the rules that are consistent otherwise they'll end up with duex ex machine. Doctor Who keeps the tension with good writing by doing this.
A few years ago, I remember reading that one of the reasons Marvel had kept Strange off-stage so much was that they were planning to completely revamp and define Marvel's systems of magic. I believe that Kieron Gillen was working on the project, but I haven't heard anything about it in years.
Bendis was writing Avengers in that period. Magic isn't his forte, as talented as he is that's outside his wheelhouse. No wonder he sidelined Dr. Strange. Not all writers do this, though they might retcon subjects if they feel it's required. That's why it's vital for writers to have a plan set up for Dr. Strange's magic and the magic system before putting him in stories.
Wasn't Bendis the one who said there wasn't such a thing as chaos magic?
GotG got a pass for being in deep space where the rules only kind of apply. They added a bridge between Earth and crazy aliens, but it was still firmly crazy alien territory. It was an additional baby-step towards a universe where the climax of the Infinity Gauntlet shit makes sense.
Marvel has demonstrated an incredible ability to organically introduce us to increasingly weirder stuff, but it needs to remain organic. I think a scene like that depicted in the comic up there could work as a climax to the Strange film, after the viewer has been eased into the world a bit, but the day Marvel decides "THERE ARE NO RULES! ANYTHING GOES!" is the day they stumble.
Alternately, they could pull a GotG in the sense that they make the movie almost completely removed from anything happening in the larger MCU, with a few nods towards it. Make it seem like Dr. Strange's world first and foremost and oh yeah I guess Iron Man was over here doing stuff you know whatevs, and the audience will probably accept it as connected without even realizing it. It'll allow them to get a little crazier because the audience won't be trying to figure out how cosmic magic fits in with robots and super-soldiers.
What made GOTG able to do that was an audience surrogate lead, Quill, and it was the origin for the team. They didn't throw the audience into the deep end with the Guardians already established. They did this with Avengers, too, minus the audience surrogate lead - that was the "prequels" setting up the main characters and world building.
Well, that pertains to how they introduced the characters. But the world had no real lead-in. We get ten minutes of OMGSAD on Earth, then Quill is stomping around to 70s rock while singing into an alien rodent and playing with sci-fi tech and then weird aliens accost him and then oh hey a raccoon is yelling at his pet tree and I don't even. All of which they could do because this was in some weird part of the galaxy that had dick to do with Earth, so anything goes.
I disagree. If you think about it, they did a marvelous (lol) job of bridging from Earth to GotG Space. I'll throw some details in a spoiler:
It opens with Kid Quill on Earth, dealing with very real and human things. Ok, so it's in the same physical reality as Earth, basic rules about physics and stuff probably apply.
Then he's abducted. Ok, Science-fiction rules.
Then we get the scene with him all grown up searching for the orb. It's an alien world, but it's not super-strange. It has ruins, it has geysers, things that are believable on Earth. And little rodent creatures, that while imaginative, aren't that dissimilar to Earth animals, and through it all you have Peter singing and dancing, an incredibly human thing to do. The first aliens they show are humanoid, with human-like behaviors and motivations.
Later, after he escapes on the ship, you get introduced to the red chick; still "human", but we're pushing a bit farther out in that Star Trek TOS kind of way. Also, he totally slept with her, so the audience knows, hey, it's just a red chick. Then you get the call from Yondu, a blue alien with the metal mohawk; visually stepping out a bit further, but his speech sounds like he's from Rural America, and he's mad he got double-crossed; he's an alien, but he's behaving like a Human.
Later still, you get Xandar, in an alien city that looks more advanced than Earth, but it's still a city, full of people, even though more of them looking more alien, and you get Rocket and Groot.
The point is, if you really look at the structure, the movie very deliberately keeps all these alien things and settings grounded in Earth-like expectations and pushes things farther and farther out in small steps, until you're flying into the disembodied head of an ancient celestial giant and no one in the audience is blinking an eye.
I've said it on another forum, but I'll repeat it here: skipping over Strange's origin (or just giving a short cliffnotes version) would be a good thing in my opinion for several reasons:
1. Strange is interesting as the Master of the Mystic Arts or Sorcerer Supreme, not as a disciple who just starts to learn magic. Hell, the comics themselves didn't start out with his origin but with Dr. Strange already established as some expert people seek out when they have nowhere else to go
2. Strange's power is basically knowledge. He has tons of ancient books lying around that he's been studying for decades. Making him go from skeptic to expert in a single movie would either require a large timeskip in the middle of the movie or the standard Hollywood trick where all you need to become a master of some martial art is 2 weeks of training with some old master (and then something just clicks and you know everything).
3. Strange origin as in the comics isn't really very compelling actionwise. Strange never faced Mordo in his origin. He is completely powerless against Mordo and the origin ends with Strange accepting magic and beginning to learn about to one day face Mordo. Also the Ancient One knew about Mordo's plans all along. (This point can be rewritten for a movie, but a rewrite would probably run into point 1 and 2 again.)
Unrelated: 18 hours till my first viewing of GotG and then I'm safe from the spoilers.
GotG got a pass for being in deep space where the rules only kind of apply. They added a bridge between Earth and crazy aliens, but it was still firmly crazy alien territory. It was an additional baby-step towards a universe where the climax of the Infinity Gauntlet shit makes sense.
Marvel has demonstrated an incredible ability to organically introduce us to increasingly weirder stuff, but it needs to remain organic. I think a scene like that depicted in the comic up there could work as a climax to the Strange film, after the viewer has been eased into the world a bit, but the day Marvel decides "THERE ARE NO RULES! ANYTHING GOES!" is the day they stumble.
Alternately, they could pull a GotG in the sense that they make the movie almost completely removed from anything happening in the larger MCU, with a few nods towards it. Make it seem like Dr. Strange's world first and foremost and oh yeah I guess Iron Man was over here doing stuff you know whatevs, and the audience will probably accept it as connected without even realizing it. It'll allow them to get a little crazier because the audience won't be trying to figure out how cosmic magic fits in with robots and super-soldiers.
What made GOTG able to do that was an audience surrogate lead, Quill, and it was the origin for the team. They didn't throw the audience into the deep end with the Guardians already established. They did this with Avengers, too, minus the audience surrogate lead - that was the "prequels" setting up the main characters and world building.
Well, that pertains to how they introduced the characters. But the world had no real lead-in. We get ten minutes of OMGSAD on Earth, then Quill is stomping around to 70s rock while singing into an alien rodent and playing with sci-fi tech and then weird aliens accost him and then oh hey a raccoon is yelling at his pet tree and I don't even. All of which they could do because this was in some weird part of the galaxy that had dick to do with Earth, so anything goes.
I disagree. If you think about it, they did a marvelous (lol) job of bridging from Earth to GotG Space. I'll throw some details in a spoiler:
It opens with Kid Quill on Earth, dealing with very real and human things. Ok, so it's in the same physical reality as Earth, basic rules about physics and stuff probably apply.
Then he's abducted. Ok, Science-fiction rules.
Then we get the scene with him all grown up searching for the orb. It's an alien world, but it's not super-strange. It has ruins, it has geysers, things that are believable on Earth. And little rodent creatures, that while imaginative, aren't that dissimilar to Earth animals, and through it all you have Peter singing and dancing, an incredibly human thing to do. The first aliens they show are humanoid, with human-like behaviors and motivations.
Later, after he escapes on the ship, you get introduced to the red chick; still "human", but we're pushing a bit farther out in that Star Trek TOS kind of way. Also, he totally slept with her, so the audience knows, hey, it's just a red chick. Then you get the call from Yondu, a blue alien with the metal mohawk; visually stepping out a bit further, but his speech sounds like he's from Rural America, and he's mad he got double-crossed; he's an alien, but he's behaving like a Human.
Later still, you get Xandar, in an alien city that looks more advanced than Earth, but it's still a city, full of people, even though more of them looking more alien, and you get Rocket and Groot.
The point is, if you really look at the structure, the movie very deliberately keeps all these alien things and settings grounded in Earth-like expectations and pushes things farther and farther out in small steps, until you're flying into the disembodied head of an ancient celestial giant and no one in the audience is blinking an eye.
Okay, fair enough. I still think the lead-in period is remarkably fast, but I agree that it was pretty meticulously structured.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
All you need to do for Strange is have the "outsider with fresh eyes" archetype for the start. Someone stumbles onto his sanctum possibly running from the bad guy, he does some slight of hand stuff, there's a mid-movie fight or challenge, the character stumbles across press clippings of the surgeon Dr Strange, they cross over to the Astral plane or something, fights the big bad etc.
All you need to do for Strange is have the "outsider with fresh eyes" archetype for the start. Someone stumbles onto his sanctum possibly running from the bad guy, he does some slight of hand stuff, there's a mid-movie fight or challenge, the character stumbles across press clippings of the surgeon Dr Strange, they cross over to the Astral plane or something, fights the big bad etc.
there's almost certainly going to be some kind of audience surrogate character if Strange's origin story isn't going to be a big part of it
if they're going for the horror vibe, that character might even die to show you how serious Strange's opponents are
I was thinking that the "no origin stories" might just mean "no more movies dedicated to origin stories." Like, we might get Captain Marvel's origin in a movie, but it will be Avengers 3 or GotG2 or something, and then just springboard directly into her movie from there. Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch pretty much got their origin story in a stinger; Avengers 2 can fill in the details with exposition as needed.
Doc Strange definitely doesn't need more than very minor detail to his origins. He's a goddamn wizard; everybody has seen Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings; while they're very different sorts of wizards, the general concept is not terribly unfamiliar.
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FakefauxCóiste BodharDriving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered Userregular
Dr. Strange as a flawed protagonist is perfectly fine. And I would like his origin adapted, because I LOVE his origin.
Super-Surgeon who get's into a car accident and loses the precise control needed to use his hands is a fantastic story beat, since he gets into a horrific accident of his own doing, miraculously survives, and the only thing he lost was the ability to perform surgery like he could in the past, and it destroyes him mentally in a way that he WISHES HE DIED, since his hands is what he equated as who he was.
You can fit a good bit of drama in that opening.
This is more or less the plot of the animated movie; better then half of it is dedicated to Strange overcoming the limits his rational mind places on him and how he needs to let go of stupid shit in his past.
Is Xandar just a planet with lots of different species, or is there also a Xandarian race? That was never clear to me. (I've never read Marvel's cosmic books.) At first I thought Xandarians all look like regular humans (eg Nova Prime), but then the Broker talked about Ronan threatening his culture and I started to think that Xandar is more of a melting pot without a single Xandarian race.
It's the only question I really walked out of the theater with.
When I was driving once I saw this painted on a bridge:
"I don't want the world, I just want your half"
Doc Strange definitely doesn't need more than very minor detail to his origins. He's a goddamn wizard; everybody has seen Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings; while they're very different sorts of wizards, the general concept is not terribly unfamiliar.
You have to establish rules and limitations and how far the Sorcerer Supreme can act or else you'll end up with something like the Constantine movie, which confused me. "John Constantine is a wizard who knows how to do things but can't actually do things? Can't he whip up some illusions or summon some angels or do anything?!"
Is Xandar just a planet with lots of different species, or is there also a Xandarian race? That was never clear to me. (I've never read Marvel's cosmic books.) At first I thought Xandarians all look like regular humans (eg Nova Prime), but then the Broker talked about Ronan threatening his culture and I started to think that Xandar is more of a melting pot without a single Xandarian race.
It's the only question I really walked out of the theater with.
I'm not familiar with it from the comics, but
it looked like a busting commerce world to me. Much more of a melting pot than a revered homeworld sort of thing. My impression is that the presence of Nova command was at least part of Ronan's issue with Xandar.
Doc Strange definitely doesn't need more than very minor detail to his origins. He's a goddamn wizard; everybody has seen Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings; while they're very different sorts of wizards, the general concept is not terribly unfamiliar.
You have to establish rules and limitations and how far the Sorcerer Supreme can act or else you'll end up with something like the Constantine movie, which confused me. "John Constantine is a wizard who knows how to do things but can't actually do things? Can't he whip up some illusions or summon some angels or do anything?!"
Part of the issue with Strange is also that he's got so many abilities, to the point that explaining/showcasing all of them in a single movie might be impractical. For example, I expect they will skip his time manipulation abilities. Astral projection, manipulating raw magical energy into zappy bolts/protective shields, teleportation across space and through dimensions, and creating/dispelling illusions are probably all givens, though.
I wonder how they'll portray the Eye of Agamotto. Its exact powers change from writer to writer. Usually it's a sort of magical detective tool, used to give Strange clues when he's otherwise at a dead end, though how exactly it does that varies.
Fakefaux on
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Dr. Strange as a flawed protagonist is perfectly fine. And I would like his origin adapted, because I LOVE his origin.
Super-Surgeon who get's into a car accident and loses the precise control needed to use his hands is a fantastic story beat, since he gets into a horrific accident of his own doing, miraculously survives, and the only thing he lost was the ability to perform surgery like he could in the past, and it destroyes him mentally in a way that he WISHES HE DIED, since his hands is what he equated as who he was.
You can fit a good bit of drama in that opening.
This is more or less the plot of the animated movie; better then half of it is dedicated to Strange overcoming the limits his rational mind places on him and how he needs to let go of stupid shit in his past.
This depends entirely on your tolerance for Kung Fu Power Ranger Doctor Strange.
Yeah, I was never a fan of that movie. When you've taken Dr. Strange doing stuff like this:
...and reduced it to just two guys fighting with energy swords, you've done something wrong.
This is incredibly lame, though. Yelling the names of some abstract concepts and then having your opponent suddenly shrink isn't exactly compelling.
They'll have to do a lot better than that if they want to bring in the really weird stuff.
This is one of the problems I had with the Nicolas Cage Ghost Rider. He just sort of... wins. He invents new powers as necessary to defeat his enemies without any limitation or explanation. It feels like cheating. However, the Dr. Strange thing makes sense in a way.
The In-Betweener was created by Lord Chaos and Master Order, two of the fundamental forces of existence in the Marvel universe, to serve as a sort of enforcer of balance. In the sequence above, Strange has harnessed the power of the In-Betweener's creators in order to bind him within the sub-reality that the In-Betweener himself has created to fight strange.
During the course of the fight, Strange goes insane, and fights his way back to a state of utter calm, he embodies, however briefly, both Order and Chaos, allowing him to channel their power into his battle with the Inbetweener, the only two forces in all of existence against which the Inbetweener is helpless.
But all of that is beside the point, since the purpose of Dr. Strange comics is to be as weird and imaginative as possible.
What is even going on there? I haven't the least idea, but it's AWESOME!
Dr. Strange poured several spells on the star then his astral form was thrown backward then he put protective spells on his real body.
I know that. It's from the Inbetweener fight. I was more pointing out that Dr. Strange is supposed to be surreal and pretty visually outlandish.
This looks like a Beetles Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds trip.
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FakefauxCóiste BodharDriving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered Userregular
edited August 2014
Kevin Feige has said that the Strange movie needs to be a "a Ditko/Kubrick/Miyazaki/The Matrix mind-trip," so hopefully we'll be getting some good visuals in the movie. Speaking of, here's another favorite:
i think it's highly unlikely that they will go with a non-white male for Dr. Strange
Eh, it's possible. A white guy makes sense for Strange's personal journey (materialistic westerner gains enlightenment after being exposed to Eastern spirituality/mysticism), but he can really be any ethnicity. All that truly matters is that he's a born-and-bred westerner of many generations who, before his accident, had no belief system beyond the almighty dollar.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
I will second a Falcon movie. I will give Marvel all of the money I have! (It's not much...sorry)
But Anthony Mackie was so awesome as Falcon that he almost overshadowed Cap for me.
Also, soon we have the Luke Cage series, which I'm pretty stoked for.
Plus Nick Fury IS the MCU, everyone knows that. He has been central to it since the beginning, even in movies he didn't cameo in.
i think it's highly unlikely that they will go with a non-white male for Dr. Strange
Eh, it's possible. A white guy makes sense for Strange's personal journey (materialistic westerner gains enlightenment after being exposed to Eastern spirituality/mysticism), but he can really be any ethnicity. All that truly matters is that he's a born-and-bred westerner of many generations who, before his accident, had no belief system beyond the almighty dollar.
I agree with Evil, Marvel Studios is too conservative at the moment for a minority or female lead - which is disappointing. Dr. Strange would perfect for a minority lead too.
edit: I'd love to see a Gamora spin-off movie.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
Not before a Black Widow spin-off.
Also, Agent Carter has a female lead and Luke Cage will have a minority lead...don't they count? Or are you just talking movies?
Also, Agent Carter has a female lead and Luke Cage will have a minority lead...don't they count? Or are you just talking movies?
Just talking movies.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
edited August 2014
Honestly, I could do without Wong. It's hard to imagine any incarnation of the character that doesn't reinforce stereotypes - even if they strip out the racist caricature and just make him a sidekick, that in and of itself is a stereotype.
Edit: This is based on what little I know from reading wiki articles on the internet for all of 10 minutes.
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FakefauxCóiste BodharDriving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered Userregular
Honestly, I could do without Wong. It's hard to imagine any incarnation of the character that doesn't reinforce stereotypes - even if they strip out the racist caricature and just make him a sidekick, that in and of itself is a stereotype.
Edit: This is based on what little I know from reading wiki articles on the internet for all of 10 minutes.
Wong works just fine if they make him Strange's partner, not his servant, and don't have him dress like he's living through the Boxer rebellion.
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This is incredibly lame, though. Yelling the names of some abstract concepts and then having your opponent suddenly shrink isn't exactly compelling.
They'll have to do a lot better than that if they want to bring in the really weird stuff.
Marvel has demonstrated an incredible ability to organically introduce us to increasingly weirder stuff, but it needs to remain organic. I think a scene like that depicted in the comic up there could work as a climax to the Strange film, after the viewer has been eased into the world a bit, but the day Marvel decides "THERE ARE NO RULES! ANYTHING GOES!" is the day they stumble.
Alternately, they could pull a GotG in the sense that they make the movie almost completely removed from anything happening in the larger MCU, with a few nods towards it. Make it seem like Dr. Strange's world first and foremost and oh yeah I guess Iron Man was over here doing stuff you know whatevs, and the audience will probably accept it as connected without even realizing it. It'll allow them to get a little crazier because the audience won't be trying to figure out how cosmic magic fits in with robots and super-soldiers.
What made GOTG able to do that was an audience surrogate lead, Quill, and it was the origin for the team. They didn't throw the audience into the deep end with the Guardians already established. They did this with Avengers, too, minus the audience surrogate lead - that was the "prequels" setting up the main characters and world building.
This is one of the problems I had with the Nicolas Cage Ghost Rider. He just sort of... wins. He invents new powers as necessary to defeat his enemies without any limitation or explanation. It feels like cheating. However, the Dr. Strange thing makes sense in a way.
The In-Betweener was created by Lord Chaos and Master Order, two of the fundamental forces of existence in the Marvel universe, to serve as a sort of enforcer of balance. In the sequence above, Strange has harnessed the power of the In-Betweener's creators in order to bind him within the sub-reality that the In-Betweener himself has created to fight strange.
During the course of the fight, Strange goes insane, and fights his way back to a state of utter calm, he embodies, however briefly, both Order and Chaos, allowing him to channel their power into his battle with the Inbetweener, the only two forces in all of existence against which the Inbetweener is helpless.
But all of that is beside the point, since the purpose of Dr. Strange comics is to be as weird and imaginative as possible.
What is even going on there? I haven't the least idea, but it's AWESOME!
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Dr. Strange poured several spells on the star then his astral form was thrown backward then he put protective spells on his real body.
Basically they designed flying super fortresses that were designed to identify and potentially eliminate John Connor.
Having powers might make one more likely to be targeted, but it wasn't a prerequisite.
I know that. It's from the Inbetweener fight. I was more pointing out that Dr. Strange is supposed to be surreal and pretty visually outlandish.
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Wasn't Bendis the one who said there wasn't such a thing as chaos magic?
Well, that pertains to how they introduced the characters. But the world had no real lead-in. We get ten minutes of OMGSAD on Earth, then Quill is stomping around to 70s rock while singing into an alien rodent and playing with sci-fi tech and then weird aliens accost him and then oh hey a raccoon is yelling at his pet tree and I don't even. All of which they could do because this was in some weird part of the galaxy that had dick to do with Earth, so anything goes.
I think he did.
I disagree. If you think about it, they did a marvelous (lol) job of bridging from Earth to GotG Space. I'll throw some details in a spoiler:
Then he's abducted. Ok, Science-fiction rules.
Then we get the scene with him all grown up searching for the orb. It's an alien world, but it's not super-strange. It has ruins, it has geysers, things that are believable on Earth. And little rodent creatures, that while imaginative, aren't that dissimilar to Earth animals, and through it all you have Peter singing and dancing, an incredibly human thing to do. The first aliens they show are humanoid, with human-like behaviors and motivations.
Later, after he escapes on the ship, you get introduced to the red chick; still "human", but we're pushing a bit farther out in that Star Trek TOS kind of way. Also, he totally slept with her, so the audience knows, hey, it's just a red chick. Then you get the call from Yondu, a blue alien with the metal mohawk; visually stepping out a bit further, but his speech sounds like he's from Rural America, and he's mad he got double-crossed; he's an alien, but he's behaving like a Human.
Later still, you get Xandar, in an alien city that looks more advanced than Earth, but it's still a city, full of people, even though more of them looking more alien, and you get Rocket and Groot.
The point is, if you really look at the structure, the movie very deliberately keeps all these alien things and settings grounded in Earth-like expectations and pushes things farther and farther out in small steps, until you're flying into the disembodied head of an ancient celestial giant and no one in the audience is blinking an eye.
1. Strange is interesting as the Master of the Mystic Arts or Sorcerer Supreme, not as a disciple who just starts to learn magic. Hell, the comics themselves didn't start out with his origin but with Dr. Strange already established as some expert people seek out when they have nowhere else to go
2. Strange's power is basically knowledge. He has tons of ancient books lying around that he's been studying for decades. Making him go from skeptic to expert in a single movie would either require a large timeskip in the middle of the movie or the standard Hollywood trick where all you need to become a master of some martial art is 2 weeks of training with some old master (and then something just clicks and you know everything).
3. Strange origin as in the comics isn't really very compelling actionwise. Strange never faced Mordo in his origin. He is completely powerless against Mordo and the origin ends with Strange accepting magic and beginning to learn about to one day face Mordo. Also the Ancient One knew about Mordo's plans all along. (This point can be rewritten for a movie, but a rewrite would probably run into point 1 and 2 again.)
Unrelated: 18 hours till my first viewing of GotG and then I'm safe from the spoilers.
Okay, fair enough. I still think the lead-in period is remarkably fast, but I agree that it was pretty meticulously structured.
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there's almost certainly going to be some kind of audience surrogate character if Strange's origin story isn't going to be a big part of it
if they're going for the horror vibe, that character might even die to show you how serious Strange's opponents are
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Doc Strange definitely doesn't need more than very minor detail to his origins. He's a goddamn wizard; everybody has seen Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings; while they're very different sorts of wizards, the general concept is not terribly unfamiliar.
Compared to what's in the animated movie, it's a masterpiece.
It's the only question I really walked out of the theater with.
"I don't want the world, I just want your half"
You have to establish rules and limitations and how far the Sorcerer Supreme can act or else you'll end up with something like the Constantine movie, which confused me. "John Constantine is a wizard who knows how to do things but can't actually do things? Can't he whip up some illusions or summon some angels or do anything?!"
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
And I imagine he's talking about movies given we're getting an Agent Carter series within the year.
Part of the issue with Strange is also that he's got so many abilities, to the point that explaining/showcasing all of them in a single movie might be impractical. For example, I expect they will skip his time manipulation abilities. Astral projection, manipulating raw magical energy into zappy bolts/protective shields, teleportation across space and through dimensions, and creating/dispelling illusions are probably all givens, though.
I wonder how they'll portray the Eye of Agamotto. Its exact powers change from writer to writer. Usually it's a sort of magical detective tool, used to give Strange clues when he's otherwise at a dead end, though how exactly it does that varies.
same hes pretty central to the plot of phase 2 films
In Captain America 2 it could be argue he kicks more ass than the Captain.
Let's not get carried away here. After all, Nick Fury wasn't the one who did this:
This looks like a Beetles Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds trip.
Gotta love Mike Mignola.
Eh, it's possible. A white guy makes sense for Strange's personal journey (materialistic westerner gains enlightenment after being exposed to Eastern spirituality/mysticism), but he can really be any ethnicity. All that truly matters is that he's a born-and-bred westerner of many generations who, before his accident, had no belief system beyond the almighty dollar.
But Anthony Mackie was so awesome as Falcon that he almost overshadowed Cap for me.
Also, soon we have the Luke Cage series, which I'm pretty stoked for.
Plus Nick Fury IS the MCU, everyone knows that. He has been central to it since the beginning, even in movies he didn't cameo in.
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I agree with Evil, Marvel Studios is too conservative at the moment for a minority or female lead - which is disappointing. Dr. Strange would perfect for a minority lead too.
edit: I'd love to see a Gamora spin-off movie.
Also, Agent Carter has a female lead and Luke Cage will have a minority lead...don't they count? Or are you just talking movies?
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That'll happen before a Gamora spin-off.
Just talking movies.
Edit: This is based on what little I know from reading wiki articles on the internet for all of 10 minutes.
Wong works just fine if they make him Strange's partner, not his servant, and don't have him dress like he's living through the Boxer rebellion.