I would watch Gotham High because it would be like X-Men Evolution, something that has the general idea right but plays with it and doesn't care about continuity. I love what if stories. Gotham on the other hand shouldn't have any of the things I just said, it should be written by Paul Dini and every single design decision should have come down to "Would we do this in the Arkham Video game or BTAS? Then yes, you may do that other wise no!"
I'd actually be more into Gotham if it was a clear 'what if?' story.
What if someone had killed all three members of the Wayne family? (Is that a story that's ever been explored?)
I'd actually be more into Gotham if it was a clear 'what if?' story.
What if someone had killed all three members of the Wayne family? (Is that a story that's ever been explored?)
Nope, because there's always a Batman. They've done the story where Clark Kent was the surviving child though; it's called Speeding Bullets.
Goitham's premiere felt like it was 2 hours squished into 1.
edit: Ivy, except not.
Ivy's cameo in the premiere would have been perfect, if instead it was a boy named Curt Calhoun.
Sorce on
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
I'd actually be more into Gotham if it was a clear 'what if?' story.
What if someone had killed all three members of the Wayne family? (Is that a story that's ever been explored?)
There was the Crime Syndicate earth where Bruce and his parents were all murdered by Thomas Wayne Jr. And evil Alfred.
I think he means Scorpion. Its about a bunch of geniuses that help the US government. Of course they are all socially inept and of course they have wacky habits.
Watched the beginning again. Anyone else weirded out by the camera male gazing on a way too young catwoman?
It felt more like all of her scenes were filmed separately from everyone else, so she was the only person they could really focus on when she was on screen.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Watched the beginning again. Anyone else weirded out by the camera male gazing on a way too young catwoman?
It felt more like all of her scenes were filmed separately from everyone else, so she was the only person they could really focus on when she was on screen.
I'm pretty sure it felt like this, cause it's what happened.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
Watched the beginning again. Anyone else weirded out by the camera male gazing on a way too young catwoman?
It felt more like all of her scenes were filmed separately from everyone else, so she was the only person they could really focus on when she was on screen.
Actually, this is what happened. She was a last minute addition to the show and all of her scenes were filmed later.
Watched the beginning again. Anyone else weirded out by the camera male gazing on a way too young catwoman?
It felt more like all of her scenes were filmed separately from everyone else, so she was the only person they could really focus on when she was on screen.
Actually, this is what happened. She was a last minute addition to the show and all of her scenes were filmed later.
Her scenes were exceptional. The actress showed immense talent without uttering a word.
Loved Bullock's line about Gordon being a monkey riding a race horse. This episode has embraced the wackiness rather than the noir from the pilot, didn't expect that. Unfortunately they haven't mastered the writing to sell it, making it be campy rather than darkly humorous - like Whedon shows do. To me this dampened how dangerous the setting was, it wasn't Sin City it became Dick Tracy. I can understand they wanted to amplify the insanity from the characters, like Fish Mooney, into chewing scenery and Pinkett-Smith tries so very hard to make her line sing but it comes off as humorous like Riddler was in Batman Forever. She wasn't the only character with terrible lines that attempted to be poetic, sad to say.
I did like the sub-plot with the mayor. They got a great character actor for the role. Gordon had a nice moment standing up to him and
coldly killed a criminal with a single shot. They should have put a situation like that in the pilot, though.
Gordon's more pro-active, still too every man to be truly unique. Montoya improved tremendously, she was excellent in her scenes. Falcone was a scene stealer as usual. Penguin felt too pathatic to take seriously. I think they're trying to make him be an underdog that going to rise in the criminal underworld, i'm not getting that from the scenes he's in. What I'm seeing is a criminal that's lucky he survived to get into the mob in the first place and there's no promising mastermind waiting to be unleashed. I'm mystified why he was that close to Mooney's mob to begin with, he's inept in everything that he does. Selina Cat was enjoyable, kid's got talent. Reminded me of Joey King. Alfred was well done, and Bruce Wayne was alright, though I'm sad to see he'll be a regular character in the supporting cast not a re-occuring. Essen and Bullock were solid. The villains were Scooby-Doo rejects.
I don't know where this show is going, I'll stick around to see where they're headed. AoS worst episode was its second, we'll see if that's going on here.
Of all the characters, I now have a soft spot for Butch. Fish's muscle guy. He had a couple really fun moments in the pilot, and even had a great scene this episode with Jada Pinkett.
Donal Logue is still awesome, Gordon's still too much of an asshole, and the cameos by Nygma and the rest are still kind of offputting, but I thought this was actually a little better than the pilot.
the kidnappers had just drugged the sandwiches instead of using the needle.
And they're already bringing in the Dollmaker? Come on.
The shift between tone and the different worlds is really jarring. There are parts of the show that feel like a serious crime drama that can be set in the real world and then there are other parts that are just... silly.
The way Jada Pinkett acts and the way they shoot her is weird. She's almost Shatnerian in the way that she delivers her lines. The close up when she monologued seemed really unnecessary.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Of all the characters, I now have a soft spot for Butch. Fish's muscle guy. He had a couple really fun moments in the pilot, and even had a great scene this episode with Jada Pinkett.
Donal Logue is still awesome, Gordon's still too much of an asshole, and the cameos by Nygma and the rest are still kind of offputting, but I thought this was actually a little better than the pilot.
Gordon's an asshole? To who? The asshole dirty cops? The mobsters? Don't think that counts. To Montoya who thought he was a dirty asshole himself? Kinda justified and not like he's going out of his way to keep it up. He's obviously nice to Barbra and all the kids. Helping Alfred out. So wherefore is he an asshole?
Moony doesn't belong/has bad direction/writing/is miscast. Falcone should off her already, her scene chewing doesn't hold up against him.
For an episode named "Selena Kyle" it sure waited until the last act almost to get to her...
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
This episode was definitely better than the pilot, and I think it's possible the show will get better.
The thing I like best about the show at this point--and something I'm wondering why nobody has really done consistently before--is that most of the time (Penguin, kids being Jigsaw'd, dude with eyes, etc) the show isn't going for noir, it's going for horror movie. It's a neat tone, especially when paired with black humor, so I hope the show keeps pushing it.
The most ridiculous thing in the episode wasn't somebody not knowing how to search a bus, it was how bad everybody was at paying lip service to legality. Gotham can be really, really corrupt, as corrupt as you want, but as soon as somebody says, "I know I can't tell you to beat a suspect, but come on, beat up suspects" my suspension of disbelief goes out the window. Believable corruption is the Mayor publicly saying "We're doing this [terrible thing]* for the good of the kids" and privately calling the kids "little bastards"; what isn't believable is cops or the Mayor or the chief of detectives talking openly to one another on the job about illegal activities.
And the real problem with that is Gordon; everybody assumes Gordon is with the program (because of what he did at the end of the pilot) but Gordon doesn't act like he's with the program. He gets up in everybody's face and nobody seems to care. It's bizarre.
But is Gordon really, truly, not with the program? Sure, he didn't kill a guy. But what does he say when Bullock beats the suspect with a phone book? "Math. 30 kids versus just you." Which is exactly the same logic that pisses Gordon off earlier in the episode ("Hey, these guys pay me $50 to look out for them. I've got kids to feed"). That's math, too. Gotham the show makes little distinction between certain types of corruption with vastly different stakes and causes (the cop on the graft versus the Mayor being politically disingenuous) but makes a big deal about the actually identical corruption of Bullock (going along because it works and why rock the boat) and Gordon (going along because why rock the boat and, hey, it works). Gordon, and the show, get to pretend he's above it all even when he's not, because it implores you to look at his words and not his actions, even as everybody around him dismisses his words as utterly meaningless.
In fact, the only person who seems to know that actions speak louder than words is Bruce Wayne, which to the show's credit is exactly right.
*Sending a bunch of homeless kids to juvie is portrayed in this episode as a terrible thing--that's the logic--but we're given no actual reason for that fact, it's just assumed. The Mayor may not be doing it for their safety, but he's doing it for the safety of other people who are the victims of homeless crime--sure, it's dishonest, but still a good reason. Meanwhile as far as we know the kids are actually safer at juvie, where, whatever the circumstances, at least they can't be kidnapped and sold overseas. The only concrete evidence that arresting all the homeless kids and getting them placed in foster homes/prison is a bad thing is that it's technically a violation of due process--and regardless of whether or not you agree with that, it's fundamentally the same argument that Bullock makes constantly and Gordon agrees with in this episode--that is to say, due process can be violated if the need is expedient enough and the math comes out right. I'm not saying Gordon or anyone else in this show needs to adhere to my idea of their character; but does it bother anyone else that the apparent moralistic hero of the piece has his ethical compass spinning all over the place?
I don't think that cop needed the $50 to feed his kids.
There's a pretty big difference between an obviously rotten cop making a shitty excuse about making extra on the side and the immediate danger those kids were in from the crazy kidnappers who have no problem shooting cops and killing people.
I don't want to shit all over this show because theres stuff I like about it, most of the casting and performances are good, the sets are great and the goth-campy tone works. There are just aspects of it its impossible to take seriously.
Right and wrong matter, not legal and illegal. Gordon can do all the illegal crap he wants, long as in the end its right. So make with the phone book. And he can do wrong up to a limit (I'll let you know if he hits it :P) if forced into it. The other cops do wrong because they can even when there's no reason to.
Oh, I know why Gordon's an asshole- Bruce was going to make all this kids less poor and he shot it down. Jerk!
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
Right and wrong matter, not legal and illegal. Gordon can do all the illegal crap he wants, long as in the end its right. So make with the phone book. And he can do wrong up to a limit (I'll let you know if he hits it :P) if forced into it. The other cops do wrong because they can even when there's no reason to.
Gordon and the corrupt cops have exactly the same moral reasoning, which is, "the ends justify the means." Gordon just has different ends (sometimes).
Quick edit: For example, it's entirely possible that the guy they beat with a phone book would have responded just as well (and just as quickly) to "We have you cold for child trafficking and illegal drug sales. Tell us what you know or you'll go down for all of it." Either Gordon or the script is jumping to conclusions without any evidence, and either is somewhat disconcerting.
We don't know they didn't try that anyway and they were beating a child kidnapper who turned out thought they were serving the kids for dinner. You can't jump to any incorrect conclusions with that guy and probably a vast majority of that hell hole of a city.
We're going to end up splitting hairs over morality here, though, which probably isn't going to produce anything more than it has.
But Gordon is A-OK so far in my opinion.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
A drinking game needs to be made for how many times the show feels it needs to go out of its way to remind the audience that it's a Batman show. :P
Can't help but think all this Bruce Wayne stuff is unnecessary. Show the murder of his parents to serve as a catalyst for everyone else's (Gordon, Mooney, Falcone, Penguin, whoever else) story, and then never show Bruce Wayne again.
I kind of wish they had just taken the plunge and made a batman tv series, instead of trying to mimic agents of shield.
Just go for it. Smallville worked for the first few seasons, there's no reason you can't get Batman going on TV. Just kind of loosely base it off the Batman:TAS story arcs or whatever until your writers get a feel for how to do him properly. Why do Flash and Green Arrow and tap around Batman?
If this first season was just an introduction and next season the age Bruce 20 years, that'd be great. I say go for it.
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not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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What if someone had killed all three members of the Wayne family? (Is that a story that's ever been explored?)
Goitham's premiere felt like it was 2 hours squished into 1.
edit: Ivy, except not.
There was the Crime Syndicate earth where Bruce and his parents were all murdered by Thomas Wayne Jr. And evil Alfred.
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Also this:
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
I'm watching this show right now.
It's pretty bad.
Dude, spoilers!
/looks at thread already full of people pointing out the obvious problem with the entire idea of this series
Well, my work here is already done.
/strolls out
I'm pretty sure it felt like this, cause it's what happened.
Actually, this is what happened. She was a last minute addition to the show and all of her scenes were filmed later.
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Her scenes were exceptional. The actress showed immense talent without uttering a word.
"My name is Cat."
Welp.
And after seeing the Captain from Almost Human, I'm bitter about that all over again.
I think Gotham just double tapped me.
Well compared to this show I'll take it
how can u guys say this is bad
the latest episode had the most appropriate to batman thing ive ever seen
this is so clearly how it started
I'm really not clear on what Selina has to offer. She saw the shooter? Great, so did Bruce. And...?
He can't even stand punk!
On the other hand, he writes his own music.
NO PARENTS
CONTINUED DARKNESS
MORE DARKNESS
GET IT?
THE OPPOSITE OF LIGHT!!!
Why I fear the ocean.
I did like the sub-plot with the mayor. They got a great character actor for the role. Gordon had a nice moment standing up to him and
I don't know where this show is going, I'll stick around to see where they're headed. AoS worst episode was its second, we'll see if that's going on here.
Donal Logue is still awesome, Gordon's still too much of an asshole, and the cameos by Nygma and the rest are still kind of offputting, but I thought this was actually a little better than the pilot.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
And they're already bringing in the Dollmaker? Come on.
The shift between tone and the different worlds is really jarring. There are parts of the show that feel like a serious crime drama that can be set in the real world and then there are other parts that are just... silly.
The way Jada Pinkett acts and the way they shoot her is weird. She's almost Shatnerian in the way that she delivers her lines. The close up when she monologued seemed really unnecessary.
I once accidentally caught a ride to the bus depot because I was reading a book and not paying attention to everyone getting off at school.
Gordon's an asshole? To who? The asshole dirty cops? The mobsters? Don't think that counts. To Montoya who thought he was a dirty asshole himself? Kinda justified and not like he's going out of his way to keep it up. He's obviously nice to Barbra and all the kids. Helping Alfred out. So wherefore is he an asshole?
Moony doesn't belong/has bad direction/writing/is miscast. Falcone should off her already, her scene chewing doesn't hold up against him.
For an episode named "Selena Kyle" it sure waited until the last act almost to get to her...
The thing I like best about the show at this point--and something I'm wondering why nobody has really done consistently before--is that most of the time (Penguin, kids being Jigsaw'd, dude with eyes, etc) the show isn't going for noir, it's going for horror movie. It's a neat tone, especially when paired with black humor, so I hope the show keeps pushing it.
The most ridiculous thing in the episode wasn't somebody not knowing how to search a bus, it was how bad everybody was at paying lip service to legality. Gotham can be really, really corrupt, as corrupt as you want, but as soon as somebody says, "I know I can't tell you to beat a suspect, but come on, beat up suspects" my suspension of disbelief goes out the window. Believable corruption is the Mayor publicly saying "We're doing this [terrible thing]* for the good of the kids" and privately calling the kids "little bastards"; what isn't believable is cops or the Mayor or the chief of detectives talking openly to one another on the job about illegal activities.
And the real problem with that is Gordon; everybody assumes Gordon is with the program (because of what he did at the end of the pilot) but Gordon doesn't act like he's with the program. He gets up in everybody's face and nobody seems to care. It's bizarre.
But is Gordon really, truly, not with the program? Sure, he didn't kill a guy. But what does he say when Bullock beats the suspect with a phone book? "Math. 30 kids versus just you." Which is exactly the same logic that pisses Gordon off earlier in the episode ("Hey, these guys pay me $50 to look out for them. I've got kids to feed"). That's math, too. Gotham the show makes little distinction between certain types of corruption with vastly different stakes and causes (the cop on the graft versus the Mayor being politically disingenuous) but makes a big deal about the actually identical corruption of Bullock (going along because it works and why rock the boat) and Gordon (going along because why rock the boat and, hey, it works). Gordon, and the show, get to pretend he's above it all even when he's not, because it implores you to look at his words and not his actions, even as everybody around him dismisses his words as utterly meaningless.
In fact, the only person who seems to know that actions speak louder than words is Bruce Wayne, which to the show's credit is exactly right.
*Sending a bunch of homeless kids to juvie is portrayed in this episode as a terrible thing--that's the logic--but we're given no actual reason for that fact, it's just assumed. The Mayor may not be doing it for their safety, but he's doing it for the safety of other people who are the victims of homeless crime--sure, it's dishonest, but still a good reason. Meanwhile as far as we know the kids are actually safer at juvie, where, whatever the circumstances, at least they can't be kidnapped and sold overseas. The only concrete evidence that arresting all the homeless kids and getting them placed in foster homes/prison is a bad thing is that it's technically a violation of due process--and regardless of whether or not you agree with that, it's fundamentally the same argument that Bullock makes constantly and Gordon agrees with in this episode--that is to say, due process can be violated if the need is expedient enough and the math comes out right. I'm not saying Gordon or anyone else in this show needs to adhere to my idea of their character; but does it bother anyone else that the apparent moralistic hero of the piece has his ethical compass spinning all over the place?
There's a pretty big difference between an obviously rotten cop making a shitty excuse about making extra on the side and the immediate danger those kids were in from the crazy kidnappers who have no problem shooting cops and killing people.
Oh, I know why Gordon's an asshole- Bruce was going to make all this kids less poor and he shot it down. Jerk!
Gordon and the corrupt cops have exactly the same moral reasoning, which is, "the ends justify the means." Gordon just has different ends (sometimes).
Quick edit: For example, it's entirely possible that the guy they beat with a phone book would have responded just as well (and just as quickly) to "We have you cold for child trafficking and illegal drug sales. Tell us what you know or you'll go down for all of it." Either Gordon or the script is jumping to conclusions without any evidence, and either is somewhat disconcerting.
We don't know they didn't try that anyway and they were beating a child kidnapper who turned out thought they were serving the kids for dinner. You can't jump to any incorrect conclusions with that guy and probably a vast majority of that hell hole of a city.
We're going to end up splitting hairs over morality here, though, which probably isn't going to produce anything more than it has.
But Gordon is A-OK so far in my opinion.
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Just go for it. Smallville worked for the first few seasons, there's no reason you can't get Batman going on TV. Just kind of loosely base it off the Batman:TAS story arcs or whatever until your writers get a feel for how to do him properly. Why do Flash and Green Arrow and tap around Batman?
If this first season was just an introduction and next season the age Bruce 20 years, that'd be great. I say go for it.