Just a smal FYI - those that come to your door are JW's or Mormons, they are not Christian. :P
Sweetheart, they use the christian bible, worship Jehovah and Jesus, and call themselves christians. Technically, they're sects that arose as part of a more general backlash against modernity, but you don't get to call them 'not christian' because that's what your pastor told you in order to make your faith seem superior.
t mannings: you're still doing it. Its rather unbecoming.
My pastor? lol please don't assume.
They may use a Bible and the same words - but they pour different meanings into said words. The skin of the truth stuffed with a lie. And that is from a secular/agnostic/atheistic standpoint.
Anyone that studies, for example, Mormonism and then biblical Christianity can see that they adhere to different definitions for God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, salvation, etc etc..
Don't try telling me you're not quoting a sermon verbatim there.
Please stop this pathetic charade of trying to classify me as being brainwashed or simply repeating what I heard someone say. Really, it doesn't help your argument. Attack what I am sharing, not the individual.
As I said, I'm very familiar with the doctrines they hold to. They're really not sufficiently different from a million other recent church splinterings to bother distinguishing - all those groups attempt to resurrect christianity as it was practiced in the first century CE.. And how else are you going to classify them anyway? They're not frickin' Buddhists.
No, they're Mormon or JW or ______.
Let's make this even more simpler: For a person that chooses to call themselves a Christian - their litmus test for such is what? The Bible.
Agreed? Good.
If the Bible says ________________ about God, Jesus, etc.. then is it not common sense to say that if something says something absolutely different about such topics that they are now not discussing the items from the Bible?
You can be the most rabid atheist Christian hater and recognize basic reading comprehension and definitions posed by a group.
The Jesus of JW is not the Jesus described in the Bible. The JW Jesus, as one simple example, is not God, but a created being. The Jesus of the Bible is God and not the angel Michael.
You're a damn fool if you think there's any more merit to their ideas of Jesus than your church's.
My church's? What church do I go to? Why do you keep assuming I am even a Christian?
Dude. You're not listening. Just because they interpret the bible differently to your group does not mean that they aren't christian. They're just a different flavour. This is retarded, you plainly don't even recognise that other belief systems can have equal merit to yours, and you seem to have a lot invested in excluding these groups from your idea of christianity. I'll leave you to your comforting delusions. They're off topic anyway.
Secondly, anyone who actually studies religions for a living places them squarely in the Christian corner. The only people who have a problem with this are certain fundamentalist and orthodox groups.
I guess my secular university professors (who were not Christians) were wrong in saying that they are sects/cults of orthodox Christianity.
How can someone have an entirely different and contradicting set of definitions for core essentials of a religion and still be considered members of said religion?
Do you consider Wahabism, the Taliban/etc to be practitioners of Islam?
Wait, you your calling out what can be christan and what can't? Are you going to say Catholics aren't Christan? How about Protestant? Or any other 100's of Chruches that think that they are the correct group to get into heaven.
Or how about you explain why half of your Bible is from the Old Testament and how Jesus was Jewish and not Christan. Here is another point, he wasn't a WASP either.
The Jesus of JW is not the Jesus described in the Bible. The JW Jesus, as one simple example, is not God, but a created being. The Jesus of the Bible is God and not the angel Michael.
You're a damn fool if you think there's any more merit to their ideas of Jesus than your church's.
My church's? What church do I go to? Why do you keep assuming I am even a Christian?
like it isn't obvious
stop pretending to be clever. You'll never see an atheist giving two shits about whether some random on the internet knows 'real' christians from 'fakes'. I'm out :roll:
Dude. You're not listening. Just because they interpret the bible differently to your group does not mean that they aren't christian. They're just a different flavour. This is retarded, you plainly don't even recognise that other belief systems can have equal merit to yours, and you seem to have a lot invested in excluding these groups from your idea of christianity. I'll leave you to your comforting delusions. They're off topic anyway.
Again, what church do I supposedly go to? What group am I a member of? People who read and comprehend what different faith groups proclaim?
I know it's par for the course in our postmodern society to hold onto to dear life to "it's just a matter of interpretation.. that's just your interpretation... there are no absolutes!!"
All writ has context and when one sees that a group's definition on things are different from another groups - the normal intelligent thing is not to say both groups are one in the same.
As an ex-mormon atheist, I would also like to know how earthless defines Christian.
I don't define it. The Bible does. You can be an atheist, an educated one on these subjects, and recognize the differences between Christianity and something is a complete off shoot with its own meanings and origins.
But they are still Christians (which I define as having a strong religious focus on Christ) despite practicing and believing things that most Christians probably do not. Where exactly do you place the line? Do you think they worship some completely different figure that just happens to be called Jesus?
EDIT: changed the language that assumed earthless was Christian
Just a smal FYI - those that come to your door are JW's or Mormons, they are not Christian. :P
Wait. So Methodists and Baptists aren't Christians either?
As an ex-mormon atheist, I would also like to know how earthless defines Christian.
EDIT: For example, what are those core biblical essentials they are not in keeping with? Also, how does that invalidate their strong religious focus on Jesus?
Well we don't believe Jesus is our brother. We don't believe we will ever be on the same level as him. We don't believe Jesus and Satan are brothers. We don't believe that after we die we can become gods and rule over our own planets, one planet for every wife. We don't believe in different levels of heaven and hell (maybe Catholics believe in different levels of hell I can not speak for them.) We do not think that God was once a human like us. We do not believe Joseph Smith found golden tablets, and the saga that surrounds those believes.
Please, please if I have any misconceptions about what the Mormon religion believes then please correct me (with external links).
as a side note, I don't really understand why it's often acceptable to stereotype Christians around here..
Because this country has already over reacted to the crazy muslims and the crazy jews are both too few in number and don't bother you.
On the other hand, crazy christians bother me at my doorstep, send their children to weirdo camps, popularized shit lit like "Left Behind" in order to create a seperate "christian" universe, and elected GW Bush two times even after he's essentially duped them (Look for the books of the two guys who ran Bush's christian department and quit because he was scamming the fundies).
Also, this board is pretty liberal, and fundie christian is about the opposite of liberal.
Abortion? Check.
Gay Marriage? Check.
Stem cell research? Check.
I could go on, but you get the point.
I agree with this point. While I have no idea of the muslim faith and its practices, all I know is that Christans (of any type) are the ones producing stuff like left behind and thier own universe. At my Synagogue, the Rabbi actually asks why they want to convert and to think about it deeply before. What I see from my local Chruches here, they will take anyone to be "saved".
And they have a thing for calling anything "Christan". Case in point an editorial in my local newspaper said that Canada is a "Christan" country and was founded as such to which another person replied, "No, Canada is the faith of the Native Americans." And for a large part of History, both the Jews and any other non christian people were procuted by so called Christians. I think they have one of the most bloodiest history in Religious terms.
So it's OK to stereotype, as long as you are stereotyping a group of people you don't like, or disagree with their views? Oh well, I guess your views of "open and accepting" are different from mine.
Sterotyping? Maybe if you cracked open a history book and saw who was actually "colonizing" the rest of the world, destorying their cultures and customs to bring "Word of God" to them maybe, just maybe you'll realize that this isn't sterotyping.
Wait, you your calling out what can be christan and what can't? Are you going to say Catholics aren't Christan? How about Protestant? Or any other 100's of Chruches that think that they are the correct group to get into heaven.
Or how about you explain why half of your Bible is from the Old Testament and how Jesus was Jewish and not Christan. Here is another point, he wasn't a WASP either.
Not sure what exactly you're wanting me to answer. But I will say that any group that adheres to the Bible is Christian. Any group that adheres to the Book of Mormon is Mormon. Any group that adheres to the Watchtower Society is a JW. Any group that adheres to the Qu'ran and the Hadith are Muslim. Any group that adheres to a maharishi yogi is a follower of Hinduism. Any group that adheres to L. Ron Hubbard is a Scientologist. etc etc etc.
I am not a WASP either, whew...did I pass the test? ;-)
As an ex-mormon atheist, I would also like to know how earthless defines Christian.
I don't define it. The Bible does. You can be an atheist, an educated one on these subjects, and recognize the differences between Christianity and something is a complete off shoot with its own meanings and origins.
But they are still Christians (which I define as having a strong religious focus on Christ) despite practicing and believing things that most Christians probably do not. Where exactly do you place the line? Do you think they worship some completely different figure that just happens to be called Jesus?
EDIT: changed the language that assumed earthless was Christian
Everything breaks down and falls apart when the Jesus a group focuses on is completely foreign to the Jesus depicted in the Bible. Is the problem here that most people are not aware of that? Sincerely asking here.
The line of demarcation for Christians is the Bible. That is the litmus.
The Jesus of JW is not the Jesus described in the Bible. The JW Jesus, as one simple example, is not God, but a created being. The Jesus of the Bible is God and not the angel Michael.
You're a damn fool if you think there's any more merit to their ideas of Jesus than your church's.
My church's? What church do I go to? Why do you keep assuming I am even a Christian?
like it isn't obvious
stop pretending to be clever. You'll never see an atheist giving two shits about whether some random on the internet knows 'real' christians from 'fakes'. I'm out :roll:
Everything breaks down and falls apart when the Jesus a group focuses on is completely foreign to the Jesus depicted in the Bible. Is the problem here that most people are not aware of that? Sincerely asking here.
The line of demarcation for Christians is the Bible. That is the litmus.
Even those who most commonly say that JWs and mormons are not Christian cannot agree on the character and personality of Jesus as presented in the bible. What is your point?
Everything breaks down and falls apart when the Jesus a group focuses on is completely foreign to the Jesus depicted in the Bible. Is the problem here that most people are not aware of that? Sincerely asking here.
The line of demarcation for Christians is the Bible. That is the litmus.
Even those who most commonly say that JWs and mormons are not Christian cannot agree on the character and personality of Jesus as presented in the bible. What is your point?
I don't agree sorry. Denominations and groups ranging from Catholics to Hyper Pentecostals all agree on the core essentials of Christianity, the nature of Jesus, etc. Again, the litmus for people claiming to be Christians is the Bible and it is not a book where all of it is a matter of interpretation. Core things are plainly spelled out for the reader.
Whether one believes it is the Word of God or a collection of adult fairy tales - the definitions are there to accept or reject.
I fail to see that an authority exists which can credibly define what "Christian" is, therefore I'm left with the definition of whoever claims that label for themselves.
I fail to see that an authority exists which can credibly define what "Christian" is, therefore I'm left with the definition of whoever claims that label for themselves.
Good point - I take whatever group's authoritative writings are and judge them by that.
Take the no true Scotsman bullshit somewhere else. It's OT.
What does that mean?
It means it's off-topic (the opposite on-topic).
Gotcha, my bad. Just was answering questions from those in this thread.
Ok, back on topic - I don't see anything wrong with Halo playing at a church. I actually would have a problem with a church that says video games are evil.
I fail to see that an authority exists which can credibly define what "Christian" is, therefore I'm left with the definition of whoever claims that label for themselves.
Good point - I take whatever group's authoritative writings are and judge them by that.
I fail to see that a collection of scriptures assembled by one group in the fourth century, no matter how widely adopted in current times, possesses said authority. In fact, I don't think you can even get a consensus on the authority of the bible within mainstream Christian groups. Catholics certainly view the Papacy as an alternative source of authoritative decisions while Anglican bishops have been known to flatly disagree with certain sections to give two examples.
Shinto, I would love to and am able to respond to your question.. but I have to respect the moderators rules and wishes here. Maybe you would want to PM me or create a new thread for that discussion, thanks.
I could never see the church I used to go to and my family still goes to doing this. It's an Episcopalian church, and to say that they're slow to change with the times would be an understatement. They actually got a younger assistant priest, and when I visited him he asked me how they could attract young people like me back. I told him to look at the mega churches that have been wildly successful at bringing in young people, but he's already had most of those ideas shot down. The chuch is literally dying of old age, but it's leaders seem oblivious to the fact that the only way it will survive is by catering to a new generation's tastes.
The chuch is literally dying of old age, but it's leaders seem oblivious to the fact that the only way it will survive is by catering to a new generation's tastes.
Yes, I think this is why they do Halo nights and stuff like that. Many non-mega churches are filled with older, dying people... Playing Halo and other fun activities is one way of churches telling youth that "we're not as old and stuffy as you might think!" Perhaps they are trying to tell students that they shouldn't believe all stereotypes about the church and that there are commonalities in interest between themselves and Church members.
And thus you have morons who believe that God was punishing New Orleans and every soldier who dies in Iraq is because America is becoming more tolerant of gays, thanks to some idiot preacher who is hoping and praying to be alive for the rapture. :roll:
Your comment is ignorant of the current situation in America and only addresses the extreme outliers. Your statement seems to suggest that the outliers are the mainstream, and as such the statement is misleading. I hope you are just misinformed and not purposely malicious.
You're absolutely right, living in the Southeast and having been raised in the baptist church until I was 18, I'm completely ignorant of the way things are in "mainstream" Christianity. :roll: Yeah, the "God's killing our soldiers because of the gays!" Christians are only outliers in that they're blaming our losses in Iraq on acceptance of gays. The majority of other conservative and fundamentalist Christians simply point to crime or drugs or whatever other boogeyman and then point to gays/liberals/Islam/whatever the fuck their parishioners don't like as the cause. The idea that everything is terrible today because the country has gotten away from it's Christian roots is as widespread as it is myopic and ignorant.
Besides, no matter what you say about mainstream Christianity, it's always going to fail in my eyes as long as there's this constant need to condemn people for not acting as "Christian" as your sect says they should.
When I was younger I went to a few Mormon events with friends of friends of a friend such as dances and sports tournaments. Being Mormons, I kind of expected to start hearing recruitment pitches, but there weren't any. I was kinda surprised about this so I asked one of the thirty-something organizers about it. His response was that instead of teens getting drunk, doing drugs, vandalizing, etc, the focus was to give kids something to do that wasn't bad for them. From what I understand, he considered it his Christian duty to help young people, regardless of their religion.
I'm not a big fan of evangelicals or fundamentalists, but I think it's pretty hard to argue against that particular type of church activity. It was a pretty upstanding thing to do.
I think that the internet has been for years on the path to creating what is essentially an electronic Necronomicon: A collection of blasphemous unrealities so perverse that to even glimpse at its contents, if but for a moment, is to irrevocably forfeit a portion of your sanity.
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Why real Chrisitans tolerate the Mcdonald's Baptist Churches is beyond me
Fixed, because Baptist churches choose their own interptetation of the Bible, be it liberal or Conservative. James Dobson, et. al. are non-demoninational, evangelical "Christians."
Well as a "real" Christian (I'm just a lot more sane, if I do say so myself) we DO despise faux-hip, Xtreme, Left Behind-loving, "Love Thy Neighbor"-ignroing Mega-churches run by charlitans and snake-oil salesmen. They are no better than for-profit cults, stunting young minds and stealing money.
But, the problem is, they are damn huge and large in number. It is not easy to opoose arch-conservative evangelicals because, well, Christians like be believe they have a right to interpret the Bible as they wish. We believe in freedom of religion. And thankfully some of us kinder, more reasonable Christians are starting to find our voices.
I could care less if churches have youth meetings where they play Halo or paintball or whatever. It's a social thing, mostly. But it does strike me as faux and shallow, in general. I don't need to listen to a Chrisitan pop band, or hang out talking about lame "Chicken Soup for the Teenage Christian Soul" books.
My faith is gospel music, talking about the Letters and the Apostles, adovating for freedom and equality. That's what being a Christian is to me.
Now Premillenial dispensationalism, the crazy-ass "Christian" Biblical interpretation from which the Left Behind books are based, is full of massive amounts of crap. And so are "Christian" apocolyptic novels and "oh noes, rap music is satan talking, and gays are gonna end the world" books are also full of crap.
Fixed it back for you, since your interpretation of non-denominational churches is so far off. In fact, most, IMO, seem to have their own interpretation and are not subject to some national statement of faith. I have nothing against Baptists, but I get just as much Dobson propaganda from them as I do any other denomination (especially SBC).
as a side note, I don't really understand why it's often acceptable to stereotype Christians around here..
On the other hand, crazy christians bother me at my doorstep, send their children to weirdo camps, popularized shit lit like "Left Behind" in order to create a seperate "christian" universe, and elected GW Bush two times even after he's essentially duped them (Look for the books of the two guys who ran Bush's christian department and quit because he was scamming the fundies).
Also, this board is pretty liberal, and fundie christian is about the opposite of liberal.
Abortion? Check.
Gay Marriage? Check.
Stem cell research? Check.
I could go on, but you get the point.
I guess I don't get the point. Is it, "toe the party line or get out?" Is it that all posters are liberal. I always got the feeling that this was a pretty diverse audience, but I am sure you have it all figured out. Maybe you could do a sticky on how we are supposed to think. It would make this so much easier.
FWIW, 36% of the people who voted for Bush in both elections were evangelicals, so you'll have to blame some others, too. In addition, Bush made the biggest gain in infrequent churchgoers between elections.
Geez people. Halo is a videogame. Asking how Christians can take part in something "un-Christian" like Halo is pretty much on par with "oh noes videogames caused columbine". Video games are not evil. They are not "sinful". They're a way to have fun.
I have LAN parties with my buddies in the church basement all the time. We play all sorts of games, including Halo. We have "outsiders" *gasp* join us and I can't remember us ever busting out in prayer or having an impromptu bible study.
We also play road hockey in the parking lot and a lot of "outsiders" come. (Canadian, can you tell?) Again, no pressure, we just like to be known to the community. We recognize that church attendance is on the decline, so we want to show ourselves to the community, and if they want to know more about what we do, and what we believe, then fine.
Either situation, it's just good natured fun and I don't see how playing violent video games can be considered "sinful" or "evil". Then again, I also don't know how reading Harry Potter is sinful or evil either, so take that with a grain of salt, I suppose.
I'm sure it's been said already, but I think it's pretty funny that the NYT article and the churches in question seem to miss that the Halo universe, insofar as it has a message, is about the badness of unscientific religious zealotry. Master Chief = Modern, Secular, Get-It-Done Badass. Arbiter = Faith Questioning Warrior. Covenant = Clueless Fundamentalists who want to Set Off The Galaxy Killing Bomb.
Still, most people probably don't play Halo for the story. I just think it's a story with a decidedly secular and modern heart, more than most games.
/edit: now Bioshock, there's a game that Christians should get behind. Just goes to show you that multiplayer always trumps ideology.
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Yes, Bioshock is a game that everyone should get behind as it is an awesome game.
And I did pick up the underlying story in both Halo and Bioshock. I just don't care that much about the themes, so long as I'm interested in the story.
/edit: now Bioshock, there's a game that Christians should get behind. Just goes to show you that multiplayer always trumps ideology.
I haven't played Bioshock either, but wouldn't that simply force Christians to address the tenets of Objectivism? Though at least the game seems highly critical of Objectivism.
You know, it might be interesting to explore how God and religion work in videogames. Because the mechanics of videogame deities are often very different from the mechanics of real-life deities.
For starters, there tends to be evidence of deities in videogames. Also, in most role-playing games, there is no such thing as a god who you can't either enslave for summoning purposes or kill at the end of the game.
Have there been any notable games with a pro-Christian or even pro-Religious stance? (Excluding games are explicitly made to be Christian games like Left Behind)
But in 12, you got to summon gods, right? Though actually,
those weird statue things in heaven, you never actually got to fight any of them, except the one rebellious one.
I wonder what the person behind FF12 and FFTactics' religious beliefs are.
Edit:
Wait a minute, the church in FFT looks to be completely evil and bent on resurrecting an ancient demon. Doesn't seem pro-Christian or pro-Religion to me. Unless that was your point.
If I'm playing Halo, and I pull off 20 head shots, 3 Stuck, 2 assassinations, and 5 regular kills, how many people did I murder?
Zero. It's a video game.
Wait a minute, the church in FFT looks to be completely evil and bent on resurrecting an ancient demon. Doesn't seem pro-Christian or pro-Religion to me. Unless that was your point.
Anime cliché # 3.
God is a cruel and malicious alien, and the Pope is planning world domination. Hating on Christianity and the West is all the rage in Japan. They must still be raw over those two gifts we gave them during WW2 (I'm exaggerating TREMENDOUSLY)
Oh and in FFT's case:
The Pope wants to conquer Ivalice, that's true. But he didn't know there were the devil's vassals were pulling his strings, trying to resurrect Altima.
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Please stop this pathetic charade of trying to classify me as being brainwashed or simply repeating what I heard someone say. Really, it doesn't help your argument. Attack what I am sharing, not the individual.
No, they're Mormon or JW or ______.
Let's make this even more simpler: For a person that chooses to call themselves a Christian - their litmus test for such is what? The Bible.
Agreed? Good.
If the Bible says ________________ about God, Jesus, etc.. then is it not common sense to say that if something says something absolutely different about such topics that they are now not discussing the items from the Bible?
You can be the most rabid atheist Christian hater and recognize basic reading comprehension and definitions posed by a group.
My church's? What church do I go to? Why do you keep assuming I am even a Christian?
I guess my secular university professors (who were not Christians) were wrong in saying that they are sects/cults of orthodox Christianity.
How can someone have an entirely different and contradicting set of definitions for core essentials of a religion and still be considered members of said religion?
Do you consider Wahabism, the Taliban/etc to be practitioners of Islam?
Or how about you explain why half of your Bible is from the Old Testament and how Jesus was Jewish and not Christan. Here is another point, he wasn't a WASP either.
like it isn't obvious
stop pretending to be clever. You'll never see an atheist giving two shits about whether some random on the internet knows 'real' christians from 'fakes'. I'm out :roll:
Again, what church do I supposedly go to? What group am I a member of? People who read and comprehend what different faith groups proclaim?
I know it's par for the course in our postmodern society to hold onto to dear life to "it's just a matter of interpretation.. that's just your interpretation... there are no absolutes!!"
All writ has context and when one sees that a group's definition on things are different from another groups - the normal intelligent thing is not to say both groups are one in the same.
But they are still Christians (which I define as having a strong religious focus on Christ) despite practicing and believing things that most Christians probably do not. Where exactly do you place the line? Do you think they worship some completely different figure that just happens to be called Jesus?
EDIT: changed the language that assumed earthless was Christian
Well we don't believe Jesus is our brother. We don't believe we will ever be on the same level as him. We don't believe Jesus and Satan are brothers. We don't believe that after we die we can become gods and rule over our own planets, one planet for every wife. We don't believe in different levels of heaven and hell (maybe Catholics believe in different levels of hell I can not speak for them.) We do not think that God was once a human like us. We do not believe Joseph Smith found golden tablets, and the saga that surrounds those believes.
Please, please if I have any misconceptions about what the Mormon religion believes then please correct me (with external links).
Sterotyping? Maybe if you cracked open a history book and saw who was actually "colonizing" the rest of the world, destorying their cultures and customs to bring "Word of God" to them maybe, just maybe you'll realize that this isn't sterotyping.
Not sure what exactly you're wanting me to answer. But I will say that any group that adheres to the Bible is Christian. Any group that adheres to the Book of Mormon is Mormon. Any group that adheres to the Watchtower Society is a JW. Any group that adheres to the Qu'ran and the Hadith are Muslim. Any group that adheres to a maharishi yogi is a follower of Hinduism. Any group that adheres to L. Ron Hubbard is a Scientologist. etc etc etc.
I am not a WASP either, whew...did I pass the test? ;-)
Everything breaks down and falls apart when the Jesus a group focuses on is completely foreign to the Jesus depicted in the Bible. Is the problem here that most people are not aware of that? Sincerely asking here.
The line of demarcation for Christians is the Bible. That is the litmus.
You must be new to the internets, take care.
Even those who most commonly say that JWs and mormons are not Christian cannot agree on the character and personality of Jesus as presented in the bible. What is your point?
I don't agree sorry. Denominations and groups ranging from Catholics to Hyper Pentecostals all agree on the core essentials of Christianity, the nature of Jesus, etc. Again, the litmus for people claiming to be Christians is the Bible and it is not a book where all of it is a matter of interpretation. Core things are plainly spelled out for the reader.
Whether one believes it is the Word of God or a collection of adult fairy tales - the definitions are there to accept or reject.
What does that mean?
Good point - I take whatever group's authoritative writings are and judge them by that.
It means it's off-topic (the opposite on-topic).
Gotcha, my bad. Just was answering questions from those in this thread.
Ok, back on topic - I don't see anything wrong with Halo playing at a church. I actually would have a problem with a church that says video games are evil.
I fail to see that a collection of scriptures assembled by one group in the fourth century, no matter how widely adopted in current times, possesses said authority. In fact, I don't think you can even get a consensus on the authority of the bible within mainstream Christian groups. Catholics certainly view the Papacy as an alternative source of authoritative decisions while Anglican bishops have been known to flatly disagree with certain sections to give two examples.
Yes, I think this is why they do Halo nights and stuff like that. Many non-mega churches are filled with older, dying people... Playing Halo and other fun activities is one way of churches telling youth that "we're not as old and stuffy as you might think!" Perhaps they are trying to tell students that they shouldn't believe all stereotypes about the church and that there are commonalities in interest between themselves and Church members.
You're absolutely right, living in the Southeast and having been raised in the baptist church until I was 18, I'm completely ignorant of the way things are in "mainstream" Christianity. :roll: Yeah, the "God's killing our soldiers because of the gays!" Christians are only outliers in that they're blaming our losses in Iraq on acceptance of gays. The majority of other conservative and fundamentalist Christians simply point to crime or drugs or whatever other boogeyman and then point to gays/liberals/Islam/whatever the fuck their parishioners don't like as the cause. The idea that everything is terrible today because the country has gotten away from it's Christian roots is as widespread as it is myopic and ignorant.
Besides, no matter what you say about mainstream Christianity, it's always going to fail in my eyes as long as there's this constant need to condemn people for not acting as "Christian" as your sect says they should.
I'm not a big fan of evangelicals or fundamentalists, but I think it's pretty hard to argue against that particular type of church activity. It was a pretty upstanding thing to do.
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
Fixed it back for you, since your interpretation of non-denominational churches is so far off. In fact, most, IMO, seem to have their own interpretation and are not subject to some national statement of faith. I have nothing against Baptists, but I get just as much Dobson propaganda from them as I do any other denomination (especially SBC).
I guess I don't get the point. Is it, "toe the party line or get out?" Is it that all posters are liberal. I always got the feeling that this was a pretty diverse audience, but I am sure you have it all figured out. Maybe you could do a sticky on how we are supposed to think. It would make this so much easier.
FWIW, 36% of the people who voted for Bush in both elections were evangelicals, so you'll have to blame some others, too. In addition, Bush made the biggest gain in infrequent churchgoers between elections.
They're religious nut jobs who's ignorance and unquestioning faith is going to cause the destruction of sentient life?
I have LAN parties with my buddies in the church basement all the time. We play all sorts of games, including Halo. We have "outsiders" *gasp* join us and I can't remember us ever busting out in prayer or having an impromptu bible study.
We also play road hockey in the parking lot and a lot of "outsiders" come. (Canadian, can you tell?) Again, no pressure, we just like to be known to the community. We recognize that church attendance is on the decline, so we want to show ourselves to the community, and if they want to know more about what we do, and what we believe, then fine.
Either situation, it's just good natured fun and I don't see how playing violent video games can be considered "sinful" or "evil". Then again, I also don't know how reading Harry Potter is sinful or evil either, so take that with a grain of salt, I suppose.
Still, most people probably don't play Halo for the story. I just think it's a story with a decidedly secular and modern heart, more than most games.
/edit: now Bioshock, there's a game that Christians should get behind. Just goes to show you that multiplayer always trumps ideology.
Pokemans D/P: 1289 4685 0522
And I did pick up the underlying story in both Halo and Bioshock. I just don't care that much about the themes, so long as I'm interested in the story.
You know, it might be interesting to explore how God and religion work in videogames. Because the mechanics of videogame deities are often very different from the mechanics of real-life deities.
For starters, there tends to be evidence of deities in videogames. Also, in most role-playing games, there is no such thing as a god who you can't either enslave for summoning purposes or kill at the end of the game.
Have there been any notable games with a pro-Christian or even pro-Religious stance? (Excluding games are explicitly made to be Christian games like Left Behind)
But in 12, you got to summon gods, right? Though actually,
I wonder what the person behind FF12 and FFTactics' religious beliefs are.
Edit:
Anime cliché # 3.
Oh and in FFT's case: