I should try to sell my "mod" which consists of a barrel I dropped in Riften and filled with a number of items that are needed for various quests but tedious to get, just in case I want to do the quests on a playthrough but don't feel like working at it.
The barrel has the 3 flawless amethysts for that one dude's wedding ring, a flawless sapphire for Madesi's annoying fucking quest, a flawless ruby for that one daedric shield quest, 3 taproots for that annoying mushroom woman quest on Solestheim, and some other goodies.
True, you can just give yourself that shit with the console but that's not immersive.
I will call my mod "Immersive Barrel Overhaul".
Think bigger.
An underground vault that has a duplicate of every single item in the game.
Immersive Thieves Guild Vault Overhaul.
It stands to reason that a good thieves guild will have stolen all the things, right? And if you feel like the Riften Thieves Guild is capable enough (and who can blame you), then I invite you to download my lore-friendly Immersive Ancient Thieves Guild Vault Overhaul, which is identical to the other one, but stipulates that the vault is left over from a previous iteration of the guild that was actually competent.
Actually, we can also do a quest version of the mod that starts with an empty vault, but then right after you become the guild leader, it will run a script to move every single item in the game into the vault.
The thing about a paid mod is that the buyer is going to want stuff up front. So no locking rewards behind a quest chain (particularly not one as arduous as becoming guild master of the Thieves). Unless the quest chain is the mod, but that wouldn't be the case here.
New versions of SkyUI will be paid. They get a cut from mods that use MCM so I guess they like this system.
SkyUI is pretty much fine in its current free version at least.
Edit: Also, they will update the free version with core changes so I presume that means that mods using newer versions of MCM won't require the paid SkyUI, which is a decent gesture.
I should try to sell my "mod" which consists of a barrel I dropped in Riften and filled with a number of items that are needed for various quests but tedious to get, just in case I want to do the quests on a playthrough but don't feel like working at it.
The barrel has the 3 flawless amethysts for that one dude's wedding ring, a flawless sapphire for Madesi's annoying fucking quest, a flawless ruby for that one daedric shield quest, 3 taproots for that annoying mushroom woman quest on Solestheim, and some other goodies.
True, you can just give yourself that shit with the console but that's not immersive.
I will call my mod "Immersive Barrel Overhaul".
Think bigger.
An underground vault that has a duplicate of every single item in the game.
Immersive Thieves Guild Vault Overhaul.
It stands to reason that a good thieves guild will have stolen all the things, right? And if you feel like the Riften Thieves Guild is capable enough (and who can blame you), then I invite you to download my lore-friendly Immersive Ancient Thieves Guild Vault Overhaul, which is identical to the other one, but stipulates that the vault is left over from a previous iteration of the guild that was actually competent.
Actually, we can also do a quest version of the mod that starts with an empty vault, but then right after you become the guild leader, it will run a script to move every single item in the game into the vault.
The thing about a paid mod is that the buyer is going to want stuff up front. So no locking rewards behind a quest chain (particularly not one as arduous as becoming guild master of the Thieves). Unless the quest chain is the mod, but that wouldn't be the case here.
They can buy my Immersive Realistic Vault Unlocker, an add-on mod that removes the quest requirement, and also adds an always-running Papyrus script with a memory leak for no particular reason.
I am going to try out the game in the free weekend - are there any mods I should really really get even before I start?
As someone who came to Skyrim only quite recently, I would advise against trying too hard to install too many mods if you're only playing for a weekend. I found it very difficult to navigate the jargon and heavy acronym use and unexplained dependencies, and it was a very frustrating experience.
Go to the Steam Workshop, sort by most popular for the last year, pick a bunch of stuff that makes it look prettier without messing with the game play, and run with it. most visual mods seem to Just Work, but anything involving physics or animations is touchier.
One of the trickier bits to learn for me was that a phenomenal number of mods require you to have a launcher called SKSE, which you run and which in turn runs Skyrim. This is rarely called out because it's one of those things that everyone assumes you already have.
(everyone should download and use SKSE to launch Skyrim)
The only way I figured it out was that the Nexus Mod Manager has an option to launch Skyrim and an option to launch Skyrim with SKSE and I reasoned that it must be important if they'd made a big friendly button for it.
It was shocking how many things just started working once I did that.
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Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
I've been unable to bring myself to load up Skyrim since reading about this.
I don't know, I just feel weird right now...still a lot of mixed up confused feelings about this.
The thing is, I'm not really bothered about SkyUI itself. It is fine as it is in its current version and it was never going to be updated (for free) anyway.
What concerns me is that while many modders are staying free, the latest post on Nexus talks about some serious negative reaction among modders who are against the paid system. People are taking down content because they are worried it will be used in for-profit mods, etc. If they are doing that, will as many people even get into modding for FO4/TES6 to start with?
SkyUI is getting away with it now and getting their cut from MCM because they are already established. What happens if an essential mod like SkyUI is paid from the start? Mod authors will have to pay for it and then ask users to pay for it just to run their mod? One hopes that for FO4/TES6 other authors would collaborate on a free alternative but who knows?
Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
edited April 2015
Aye.
The "current versions will stay free" is nice and everything for Skyrim but its pretty easy to take that as Fallout 4 (where the real effects of this are going to start to be felt) is going to be heavy of the paid variety and I can't personally see myself paying money to get the UI fixed so whatever iteration of this is coming for Bethesda's game, It bums me out abit.
There should be some decent free alternatives that will arise though, I imagine.
Its not as big a deal for Skyrim where there will be a large assortment of past versions mod makers will leave as demos or what have you but I'm seeing abit of a question mark for future games concerning this.
It's just weird that any modders would even go along with this. Only making 25% of what the customer pays, plus all the negative feedback about the system entirely and "selling out" or whatever. I hope that donations people get through the Nexus goes up a lot in response to this. Places like Patreon show that people are willing to give money to people who are making things they like, but having a paywall behind a game modification is just too big a step from established expectations for it to feel reasonable at all.
The cynical read is that they started this now so that it'll be well embedded by the time Fallout 4 comes out and we'll all be used to it, but I really just hope that no one makes any amount of money at all through this and it is quietly dropped in a few months.
It's just weird that any modders would even go along with this. Only making 25% of what the customer pays, plus all the negative feedback about the system entirely and "selling out" or whatever. I hope that donations people get through the Nexus goes up a lot in response to this. Places like Patreon show that people are willing to give money to people who are making things they like, but having a paywall behind a game modification is just too big a step from established expectations for it to feel reasonable at all.
The cynical read is that they started this now so that it'll be well embedded by the time Fallout 4 comes out and we'll all be used to it, but I really just hope that no one makes any amount of money at all through this and it is quietly dropped in a few months.
Most likely outcome is that the ports of Dota 2 weapons will all make loads of money and the people who make interesting mods will be driven out of modding by the overly hostile modding "community".
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Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
edited April 2015
Valve and Bethesda taking a gigantic 75% cut is the thing I keep coming back to in my head that makes me feel abit gross about this.
Also factor in the modders giving a further percentage to other mod makers for stuff they're using alongside theirs and I can't fully get onboard with the "now we're going to really see people put out their best and everything is going to be awesome and maintained" possibility.
Doesn't sound like its going to be worth it to any other than a select few who can come up with some really mindblowing shit and then they're probably still just going to get pennies for it.
I dunno. I just hope that the 25 cents a download the SkyUI guy is going to get was worth losing all the goodwill he built up from making the most used and recommended mod for the game.
When you buy a Bethesda RPG on PC, it comes with an implicit understanding that the game will have bugs great and small, and a wacky-ass UI that isn't intended for a computer screen. It also comes with an implicit understanding that the community will take over, make the UI usable, and fix the bugs.
What happens when those UI and bug fixes are no longer free? It's one thing to buy a $60 game to have it be completed by fans (which, let's be clear, isn't great, but I guess we all just kinda give Bethesda a pass since they make games of such large scope). It's another thing to buy a $60 game and then pay another $30 for the fixes.
I dunno. I just hope that the 25 cents a download the SkyUI guy is going to get was worth losing all the goodwill he built up from making the most used and recommended mod for the game.
I dunno, a dollar isn't horrible, and it's not like I'm against paying for mods as, like, a concept. Which is why this cut sucks for both modders and consumers. The cut is so one-sided, that it doesn't properly incentivize modders to post their work for appropriate prices if they actually want to see any of the money.
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L Ron HowardThe duckMinnesotaRegistered Userregular
I should try to sell my "mod" which consists of a barrel I dropped in Riften and filled with a number of items that are needed for various quests but tedious to get, just in case I want to do the quests on a playthrough but don't feel like working at it.
The barrel has the 3 flawless amethysts for that one dude's wedding ring, a flawless sapphire for Madesi's annoying fucking quest, a flawless ruby for that one daedric shield quest, 3 taproots for that annoying mushroom woman quest on Solestheim, and some other goodies.
True, you can just give yourself that shit with the console but that's not immersive.
I will call my mod "Immersive Barrel Overhaul".
Add 10 Fire Salts for the Blacksmith in Riften, while you're at it.
I dunno. I just hope that the 25 cents a download the SkyUI guy is going to get was worth losing all the goodwill he built up from making the most used and recommended mod for the game.
I dunno, a dollar isn't horrible, and it's not like I'm against paying for mods as, like, a concept. Which is why this cut sucks for both modders and consumers. The cut is so one-sided, that it doesn't properly incentivize modders to post their work for appropriate prices if they actually want to see any of the money.
I dollar isn't horrible, but he chose the worst possible time to jump in on it. It basically put a gigantic target on his back since a mod that widely used and required going paid is the starting point for the nightmare scenario of no more free mods ever again. Not that that is what is going to happen, but that's the big worry people have.
Valve and Bethesda taking a gigantic 75% cut is the thing I keep coming back to in my head that makes me feel abit gross about this.
See, this is the part that ticks me off.
I understand Valve and Bethesda wanting a cut. But for god's sake, the modders are literally DOING YOUR DAMN WORK FOR YOU. The least you can do is switch the numbers around, or make it 50 / 50.
It's the reason why even if I wasn't broke as shit I wouldn't shell out for some of the funnier troll mods. The problem there is that Bethsoft & Valve still get their damn cut, so they're still winning. If I had money, I'd rather just try to find the modder and be like "yo son you got paypal? uhhh just send me a torrent of that sweet shit i'll give you the cash full price >>; "
Also I don't think it's been mentioned yet, and while it's probably no surprise it bears mentioning that 24-hour no-questions-asked mod refund pays you back in Steam Wallet cash.
So regardless of what happens after you initially pay for a mod, that money is Valve's for good.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
So, like, there was this time where I was a huge Blizzard fanboy, and then they made WoW, and became Activision Blizzard, and I really couldn't stomach their products anymore.
That's basically the place I'm at with Valve, over this.
Man, the nightmare scenario for me is that starting with a probable engine change beginning with Fallout 4, I wonder if we're likely to see Bethsoft games lose the drag-and-drop-into-Data-Files modding they currently have and make the Workshop required to install mods.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
So I've been thinking about it. A lot of people have been quite reasonable and said that, yes, certainly mod authors deserve some money for their time and effort.
I actually think that is not the case (at the moment).
Until now, modders have made their mods for fun, for hobbies, for practice etc. Don't get me wrong, it is wholly reasonable for them to ask for donations as others do get to enjoy what they have worked on, but when they ask for payment (edit: which only a few have done so far, of course) that is something else entirely. They are then providing a product/service and I expect something very different from the buggy, conflicting (albeit fun) system of mods that we have to wade through at the moment. I expect a fully realised product and if not I expect rapid updates and bugfixes. It can't just be dropped like mods are now, authors can't just update when they feel like it or when they have time, features can't just be changed because the author decides he'd like to take the mod in a slightly different direction, etc. There are a number of very good mods that are worth a dollar or two, but they all took some time to get to that point and many of them had help from other authors' assets or advice.
Mod authors are doing paid-mods now because hey, they did all this for fun and now someone wants to give them money for it? Hey .. why not? Maybe they listen to Valve's nice persuasive argument about the good they can do with this system after all (see Chesko's post) or maybe they just aren't going to turn down cash for something they were mostly done with anyway.
So for this situation I can't blame the mod authors nearly as much as I blame Valve and Bethesda. Doubly so when they have the cheek to take fucking 75%
Man, the nightmare scenario for me is that starting with a probable engine change beginning with Fallout 4, I wonder if we're likely to see Bethsoft games lose the drag-and-drop-into-Data-Files modding they currently have and make the Workshop required to install mods.
I'm fully expecting that after this and the way they've handled it.
If not at E3 after the trailer, some time close to launch after they've already got their hooks in people and its just quietly reported.
Since it was a significant point of confusion for at least one person, I'll update the OP to briefly explain what SKSE is and why so many mods require it.
After giving some thought to baudattitude's experience, it occurred to me that back when I started modding Skyrim SKSE was somewhat opaque, and taken for granted that everyone knew about it. Which almost everyone did, because my understanding is it wasn't even the first papyrus script extender, that it started with FO3 or FONV and became ubiquitous before Skyrim even came out.
Since it was a significant point of confusion for at least one person, I'll update the OP to briefly explain what SKSE is and why so many mods require it.
After giving some thought to baudattitude's experience, it occurred to me that back when I started modding Skyrim SKSE was somewhat opaque, and taken for granted that everyone knew about it. Which almost everyone did, because my understanding is it wasn't even the first papyrus script extender, that it started with FO3 or FONV and became ubiquitous before Skyrim even came out.
Actually it goes back to OBSE (Oblivion Script Extender) a couple years before Fallout 3. There was also MWSE (Morrowind Script Extender) but I'm fuzzy on the details now and can't recall if that was a different team or even when it came about. Also, before Skyrim, none of these games used Papyrus - they used an older (and friendlier, imho) scripting language.
Man, the nightmare scenario for me is that starting with a probable engine change beginning with Fallout 4, I wonder if we're likely to see Bethsoft games lose the drag-and-drop-into-Data-Files modding they currently have and make the Workshop required to install mods.
Fuck you for making me consider that possible
Handgimp on
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Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
edited April 2015
I can't see it not happening with the way Bethesda and Valve has set this up.
They really don't seem to care about the way they're perceived doing this (both to the community and modders they're trying the bare minimum to get away with paying them) and seem to be going about this in a brute force manner with the 75% and the poor moderation. They got their eyes locked on the profit, not working with the community.
I like Bethesda and Valve and I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt but seeing how they started this, it feels likely they would be willing to take the next step and lock modding to the workshop.
Of course I hope I'm wrong but the whole thing leaves me feeling abit cynical at the moment.
Since it was a significant point of confusion for at least one person, I'll update the OP to briefly explain what SKSE is and why so many mods require it.
After giving some thought to baudattitude's experience, it occurred to me that back when I started modding Skyrim SKSE was somewhat opaque, and taken for granted that everyone knew about it. Which almost everyone did, because my understanding is it wasn't even the first papyrus script extender, that it started with FO3 or FONV and became ubiquitous before Skyrim even came out.
See, there's this period of roughly 1999 to 2008 where if you asked me what I was doing, I'd just say "Playing Everquest, probably"
So I missed a lot of games. Skyrim is my first PC Elder Scrolls game that didn't come on floppy disks, and I got killed by a rat five minutes into that one and never went back.
I plan to go back and play Fallout 3 at some point, because many people gush about it. I will likely spend far less time trying to figure out how to make my character run around in jiggly platemail bikinis.
It is astonishing how many things I needed to install to make jiggly platemail bikinis work, as an aside. I think I needed new character models, and a new skeletal system, and then armor that supported both the new character models and the new skeletal system? and then there were several other things and mostly now I just don't dare touch anything on the idea that everything is currently working and any changes will make everything explode.*
* OK, I did just turn on something to make butterflies prettier. What could that POSSIBLY break?
Valve and Bethesda taking a gigantic 75% cut is the thing I keep coming back to in my head that makes me feel abit gross about this.
See, this is the part that ticks me off.
I understand Valve and Bethesda wanting a cut. But for god's sake, the modders are literally DOING YOUR DAMN WORK FOR YOU. The least you can do is switch the numbers around, or make it 50 / 50.
As noted before, another form of this is why I still refuse to run SKSE and similar wrappers. Because to me, that would be tantamount to an admission and acceptance that the people who are literally paid to do this right, as their actual job, with all the in-house tools and resources available to them, are incompetent and incapable. That a bunch of amateurs, working in their free time without coordination or access to the source code or any of those things, can do a better job of producing a finished, working game than people who literally have that as their careers, their full-time employment.
And... I can't. I cannot accept that. I'm not being sarcastic here. It is wrong, on a basic level. I cannot accept that Bethesda, collectively, is that fundamentally bad at their jobs.
Valve and Bethesda taking a gigantic 75% cut is the thing I keep coming back to in my head that makes me feel abit gross about this.
See, this is the part that ticks me off.
I understand Valve and Bethesda wanting a cut. But for god's sake, the modders are literally DOING YOUR DAMN WORK FOR YOU. The least you can do is switch the numbers around, or make it 50 / 50.
As noted before, another form of this is why I still refuse to run SKSE and similar wrappers. Because to me, that would be tantamount to an admission and acceptance that the people who are literally paid to do this right, as their actual job, with all the in-house tools and resources available to them, are incompetent and incapable. That a bunch of amateurs, working in their free time without coordination or access to the source code or any of those things, can do a better job of producing a finished, working game than people who literally have that as their careers, their full-time employment.
And... I can't. I cannot accept that. I'm not being sarcastic here. It is wrong, on a basic level. I cannot accept that Bethesda, collectively, is that fundamentally bad at their jobs.
This doesn't make much sense.
Skyrim does not need SKSE to run. The game runs without it, and I played without it for a long time.
Scripted mods need SKSE to run. Making that happen wasn't ever Bethesda's job. What they did do was make a game that allows things like SKSE to work with it so that modders can go even further.
Valve and Bethesda taking a gigantic 75% cut is the thing I keep coming back to in my head that makes me feel abit gross about this.
See, this is the part that ticks me off.
I understand Valve and Bethesda wanting a cut. But for god's sake, the modders are literally DOING YOUR DAMN WORK FOR YOU. The least you can do is switch the numbers around, or make it 50 / 50.
As noted before, another form of this is why I still refuse to run SKSE and similar wrappers. Because to me, that would be tantamount to an admission and acceptance that the people who are literally paid to do this right, as their actual job, with all the in-house tools and resources available to them, are incompetent and incapable. That a bunch of amateurs, working in their free time without coordination or access to the source code or any of those things, can do a better job of producing a finished, working game than people who literally have that as their careers, their full-time employment.
And... I can't. I cannot accept that. I'm not being sarcastic here. It is wrong, on a basic level. I cannot accept that Bethesda, collectively, is that fundamentally bad at their jobs.
Remember also that they needed to get these games to work on last gen consoles. Had they been doing only PC development it would be a different story.
It'll be interesting to see how this all shakes out over the next 12 months or so.
My pattern for Bethesda games over the last decade has been to get the console version first, then a year or so later get the pc version on sale, and reply with a bunch of fun mods installed.
Depending on how this unfolds, I may end up changing this with Fallout 4 (or the next Elder Scrolls, whichever comes first).
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Sir CarcassI have been shown the end of my worldRound Rock, TXRegistered Userregular
Skyrim does not need SKSE to run. The game runs without it, and I played without it for a long time.
Some on this thread and others would say otherwise. I can't always tell how serious they are.
Similarly, I expect the official patches to be superior to unofficial ones. That this is apparently not so (again, I have been told)... bothers me.
It's more that there are a lot of bugs left in the game after the official patches were done (which is pretty common for RPGs of this magnitude), and people needed the extended scripting functions of SKSE to fix them. The game is certainly playable without any of it, but most people would recommend grabbing the unofficial patches as well to make the experience slightly smoother. Otherwise you'll probably end up having to use the console at some point to fix a quest that broke.
Skyrim does not need SKSE to run. The game runs without it, and I played without it for a long time.
Some on this thread and others would say otherwise. I can't always tell how serious they are.
Similarly, I expect the official patches to be superior to unofficial ones. That this is apparently not so (again, I have been told)... bothers me.
It's more that there are a lot of bugs left in the game after the official patches were done (which is pretty common for RPGs of this magnitude), and people needed the extended scripting functions of SKSE to fix them. The game is certainly playable without any of it, but most people would recommend grabbing the unofficial patches as well to make the experience slightly smoother. Otherwise you'll probably end up having to use the console at some point to fix a quest that broke.
Nope, the Unofficial Patches don't have SKSE requirements.
They were done with good old fashioned Construction Set and nothing more.
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Sir CarcassI have been shown the end of my worldRound Rock, TXRegistered Userregular
Skyrim does not need SKSE to run. The game runs without it, and I played without it for a long time.
Some on this thread and others would say otherwise. I can't always tell how serious they are.
Similarly, I expect the official patches to be superior to unofficial ones. That this is apparently not so (again, I have been told)... bothers me.
It's more that there are a lot of bugs left in the game after the official patches were done (which is pretty common for RPGs of this magnitude), and people needed the extended scripting functions of SKSE to fix them. The game is certainly playable without any of it, but most people would recommend grabbing the unofficial patches as well to make the experience slightly smoother. Otherwise you'll probably end up having to use the console at some point to fix a quest that broke.
Nope, the Unofficial Patches don't have SKSE requirements.
They were done with good old fashioned Construction Set and nothing more.
Well slap my ass and call me Slapped Ass. An assumption on my part there.
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Give them a tiny cut and expect them to police the huge frickin problems that are going to arise by themselves.
The thing about a paid mod is that the buyer is going to want stuff up front. So no locking rewards behind a quest chain (particularly not one as arduous as becoming guild master of the Thieves). Unless the quest chain is the mod, but that wouldn't be the case here.
SkyUI is pretty much fine in its current free version at least.
Edit: Also, they will update the free version with core changes so I presume that means that mods using newer versions of MCM won't require the paid SkyUI, which is a decent gesture.
Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
The only way I figured it out was that the Nexus Mod Manager has an option to launch Skyrim and an option to launch Skyrim with SKSE and I reasoned that it must be important if they'd made a big friendly button for it.
It was shocking how many things just started working once I did that.
I don't know, I just feel weird right now...still a lot of mixed up confused feelings about this.
I was very seriously just looking at it on my steam games list with mild disappointment.
What concerns me is that while many modders are staying free, the latest post on Nexus talks about some serious negative reaction among modders who are against the paid system. People are taking down content because they are worried it will be used in for-profit mods, etc. If they are doing that, will as many people even get into modding for FO4/TES6 to start with?
SkyUI is getting away with it now and getting their cut from MCM because they are already established. What happens if an essential mod like SkyUI is paid from the start? Mod authors will have to pay for it and then ask users to pay for it just to run their mod? One hopes that for FO4/TES6 other authors would collaborate on a free alternative but who knows?
Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
The "current versions will stay free" is nice and everything for Skyrim but its pretty easy to take that as Fallout 4 (where the real effects of this are going to start to be felt) is going to be heavy of the paid variety and I can't personally see myself paying money to get the UI fixed so whatever iteration of this is coming for Bethesda's game, It bums me out abit.
There should be some decent free alternatives that will arise though, I imagine.
Its not as big a deal for Skyrim where there will be a large assortment of past versions mod makers will leave as demos or what have you but I'm seeing abit of a question mark for future games concerning this.
The cynical read is that they started this now so that it'll be well embedded by the time Fallout 4 comes out and we'll all be used to it, but I really just hope that no one makes any amount of money at all through this and it is quietly dropped in a few months.
Most likely outcome is that the ports of Dota 2 weapons will all make loads of money and the people who make interesting mods will be driven out of modding by the overly hostile modding "community".
Also factor in the modders giving a further percentage to other mod makers for stuff they're using alongside theirs and I can't fully get onboard with the "now we're going to really see people put out their best and everything is going to be awesome and maintained" possibility.
Doesn't sound like its going to be worth it to any other than a select few who can come up with some really mindblowing shit and then they're probably still just going to get pennies for it.
When you buy a Bethesda RPG on PC, it comes with an implicit understanding that the game will have bugs great and small, and a wacky-ass UI that isn't intended for a computer screen. It also comes with an implicit understanding that the community will take over, make the UI usable, and fix the bugs.
What happens when those UI and bug fixes are no longer free? It's one thing to buy a $60 game to have it be completed by fans (which, let's be clear, isn't great, but I guess we all just kinda give Bethesda a pass since they make games of such large scope). It's another thing to buy a $60 game and then pay another $30 for the fixes.
I dunno, a dollar isn't horrible, and it's not like I'm against paying for mods as, like, a concept. Which is why this cut sucks for both modders and consumers. The cut is so one-sided, that it doesn't properly incentivize modders to post their work for appropriate prices if they actually want to see any of the money.
Add 10 Fire Salts for the Blacksmith in Riften, while you're at it.
I dollar isn't horrible, but he chose the worst possible time to jump in on it. It basically put a gigantic target on his back since a mod that widely used and required going paid is the starting point for the nightmare scenario of no more free mods ever again. Not that that is what is going to happen, but that's the big worry people have.
See, this is the part that ticks me off.
I understand Valve and Bethesda wanting a cut. But for god's sake, the modders are literally DOING YOUR DAMN WORK FOR YOU. The least you can do is switch the numbers around, or make it 50 / 50.
It's the reason why even if I wasn't broke as shit I wouldn't shell out for some of the funnier troll mods. The problem there is that Bethsoft & Valve still get their damn cut, so they're still winning. If I had money, I'd rather just try to find the modder and be like "yo son you got paypal? uhhh just send me a torrent of that sweet shit i'll give you the cash full price >>; "
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
So regardless of what happens after you initially pay for a mod, that money is Valve's for good.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
That's basically the place I'm at with Valve, over this.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
I actually think that is not the case (at the moment).
Until now, modders have made their mods for fun, for hobbies, for practice etc. Don't get me wrong, it is wholly reasonable for them to ask for donations as others do get to enjoy what they have worked on, but when they ask for payment (edit: which only a few have done so far, of course) that is something else entirely. They are then providing a product/service and I expect something very different from the buggy, conflicting (albeit fun) system of mods that we have to wade through at the moment. I expect a fully realised product and if not I expect rapid updates and bugfixes. It can't just be dropped like mods are now, authors can't just update when they feel like it or when they have time, features can't just be changed because the author decides he'd like to take the mod in a slightly different direction, etc. There are a number of very good mods that are worth a dollar or two, but they all took some time to get to that point and many of them had help from other authors' assets or advice.
Mod authors are doing paid-mods now because hey, they did all this for fun and now someone wants to give them money for it? Hey .. why not? Maybe they listen to Valve's nice persuasive argument about the good they can do with this system after all (see Chesko's post) or maybe they just aren't going to turn down cash for something they were mostly done with anyway.
So for this situation I can't blame the mod authors nearly as much as I blame Valve and Bethesda. Doubly so when they have the cheek to take fucking 75%
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If not at E3 after the trailer, some time close to launch after they've already got their hooks in people and its just quietly reported.
After giving some thought to baudattitude's experience, it occurred to me that back when I started modding Skyrim SKSE was somewhat opaque, and taken for granted that everyone knew about it. Which almost everyone did, because my understanding is it wasn't even the first papyrus script extender, that it started with FO3 or FONV and became ubiquitous before Skyrim even came out.
Actually it goes back to OBSE (Oblivion Script Extender) a couple years before Fallout 3. There was also MWSE (Morrowind Script Extender) but I'm fuzzy on the details now and can't recall if that was a different team or even when it came about. Also, before Skyrim, none of these games used Papyrus - they used an older (and friendlier, imho) scripting language.
Fuck you for making me consider that possible
They really don't seem to care about the way they're perceived doing this (both to the community and modders they're trying the bare minimum to get away with paying them) and seem to be going about this in a brute force manner with the 75% and the poor moderation. They got their eyes locked on the profit, not working with the community.
I like Bethesda and Valve and I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt but seeing how they started this, it feels likely they would be willing to take the next step and lock modding to the workshop.
Of course I hope I'm wrong but the whole thing leaves me feeling abit cynical at the moment.
See, there's this period of roughly 1999 to 2008 where if you asked me what I was doing, I'd just say "Playing Everquest, probably"
So I missed a lot of games. Skyrim is my first PC Elder Scrolls game that didn't come on floppy disks, and I got killed by a rat five minutes into that one and never went back.
I plan to go back and play Fallout 3 at some point, because many people gush about it. I will likely spend far less time trying to figure out how to make my character run around in jiggly platemail bikinis.
It is astonishing how many things I needed to install to make jiggly platemail bikinis work, as an aside. I think I needed new character models, and a new skeletal system, and then armor that supported both the new character models and the new skeletal system? and then there were several other things and mostly now I just don't dare touch anything on the idea that everything is currently working and any changes will make everything explode.*
* OK, I did just turn on something to make butterflies prettier. What could that POSSIBLY break?
As noted before, another form of this is why I still refuse to run SKSE and similar wrappers. Because to me, that would be tantamount to an admission and acceptance that the people who are literally paid to do this right, as their actual job, with all the in-house tools and resources available to them, are incompetent and incapable. That a bunch of amateurs, working in their free time without coordination or access to the source code or any of those things, can do a better job of producing a finished, working game than people who literally have that as their careers, their full-time employment.
And... I can't. I cannot accept that. I'm not being sarcastic here. It is wrong, on a basic level. I cannot accept that Bethesda, collectively, is that fundamentally bad at their jobs.
This doesn't make much sense.
Skyrim does not need SKSE to run. The game runs without it, and I played without it for a long time.
Scripted mods need SKSE to run. Making that happen wasn't ever Bethesda's job. What they did do was make a game that allows things like SKSE to work with it so that modders can go even further.
Remember also that they needed to get these games to work on last gen consoles. Had they been doing only PC development it would be a different story.
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Some on this thread and others would say otherwise. I can't always tell how serious they are.
Similarly, I expect the official patches to be superior to unofficial ones. That this is apparently not so (again, I have been told)... bothers me.
My pattern for Bethesda games over the last decade has been to get the console version first, then a year or so later get the pc version on sale, and reply with a bunch of fun mods installed.
Depending on how this unfolds, I may end up changing this with Fallout 4 (or the next Elder Scrolls, whichever comes first).
It's more that there are a lot of bugs left in the game after the official patches were done (which is pretty common for RPGs of this magnitude), and people needed the extended scripting functions of SKSE to fix them. The game is certainly playable without any of it, but most people would recommend grabbing the unofficial patches as well to make the experience slightly smoother. Otherwise you'll probably end up having to use the console at some point to fix a quest that broke.
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Nope, the Unofficial Patches don't have SKSE requirements.
They were done with good old fashioned Construction Set and nothing more.
Well slap my ass and call me Slapped Ass. An assumption on my part there.
Though I'd call SkyUI an unofficial bugfix. :P