Incenjucar is a bitter man that's twice his age and seems to have declared a self-contained war on humanity for the crime of unanimous dickity.
I am a natural diplomat that believes every single person on the planet has something to contribute to the greater good of the race, and that understanding any problem of humanity's requires a person-by-person understanding of individual thoughts and feelings.
Yet we are in complete agreement. I believe that means the thread is over.
In the context of saying "omg thats so gay" the word has become about as far removed from homosexuality as is possible.
I would be willing to bet that there are kids out there who picked up on the word "gay" and use it, and don't even know what it means.
Its become just another swear word.
I think you're very wrong. What you're saying is tantamount to saying that black people shouldn't be offended when someone makes a comment that implies that black people are subhuman, because that's exactly what is done when terms about homosexuality are used as epithets.
I would be willing to bet that there are kids out there who picked up on the word "nigg*r" and use it, and don't even know what it means. Doesn't mean black people shouldn't be offended that such a term (and its implications) is in our lexicon of profanities.
Incenjucar is a bitter man that's twice his age and seems to have declared a self-contained war on humanity for the crime of unanimous dickity.
I am a natural diplomat that believes every single person on the planet has something to contribute to the greater good of the race, and that understanding any problem of humanity's requires a person-by-person understanding of individual thoughts and feelings.
Yet we are in complete agreement. I believe that means the thread is over.
In the context of saying "omg thats so gay" the word has become about as far removed from homosexuality as is possible.
I would be willing to bet that there are kids out there who picked up on the word "gay" and use it, and don't even know what it means.
Its become just another swear word.
I think you're very wrong. What you're saying is tantamount to saying that black people shouldn't be offended when someone makes a comment that implies that black people are subhuman, because that's exactly what is done when terms about homosexuality are used as epithets.
I would be willing to bet that there are kids out there who picked up on the word "nigg*r" and use it, and don't even know what it means. Doesn't mean black people shouldn't be offended that such a term (and its implications) is in our lexicon of profanities.
If you are so caught up on words that you don't care to consider the intent of the person using them, then you deserve whatever pain you cause yourself.
Kong: When someone says "The thread is over", unless he or she is a mod, it doesn't mean that the thread is over. It means that a satisfactory conclusion has been reached. Unfortunately, Loren Michael had to come and salvage the thread, so we continue.
It's not comprehensive, but Penny-Packer says there are 27 strips that mention "gay" or present a situation that could be construed as gay. This includes any time Gabe loses his pants, which let's be honest, is more than average.
The Mr. Period Returns strip is it, as far as I can tell, that uses any epithets, and it uses them in a humorous context of telling those dicks on XBL or what have you to expand their monosyllabic vocabulary.
As for my opinion: Christ, even the stupid character isn't homophobic.
Edit: Though, in the context of "I don't mean 'fag' like that", it is my opinion that in mixed company, you should avoid causing offense even if you don't intend a word to be construed that way. I don't think saying "fuck" is particularly damaging, but I'm not enough of a jackass to say it in front of my grandmother. Since you can't immediately ascertain if someone is gay, transgender, etc, it's best not to use derogatory terms in public even if you did grow up thinking gay was another word for stupid.
Also, I don't like leaving the door open for the jackasses who do mean it as derogatory, but puss out when they're called on it.
But, either way. That doesn't apply here, as the only thing I could find relating to this was a comic about a fictional XBL user. That's pretty far removed from "This is a hurtful place for gay people."
Dammit I spent time doing this shit for you jackasses, I'm not going to be BoTP'd.
Again, really, it comes down to context. When someone says "fag" here in D&D, we can tell which way they're using it. If they sling it with malicious intent, they will catch shit. They will get infracted. People here say "fag" all the time. And make gay jokes. And dick jokes. And more gay jokes.
Listen, I can't really explain to you the social dynamics of this forum, or an understanding of the context in which Gabe and Tycho say "faggot."
I used to identify as gay, now I identify as bi, but nowhere along the line did I have any particular aversion to the words "gay" or "faggot."
I have an aversion to the meaning some people put into those words, that can only be put into those words. By building up certain words into monuments of intolerance, you grant them more power, such that they are offensive even when decontextualized or contextualized in an inoffensive setting. This is not doing a service to the people such epithets are aimed at.
Wait, do homo and gay count as epithets? I mean, queer and faggot and fairy yeah. But I've never heard someone call a homosexual gay when they were trying to insult them.
In the context of saying "omg thats so gay" the word has become about as far removed from homosexuality as is possible.
I would be willing to bet that there are kids out there who picked up on the word "gay" and use it, and don't even know what it means.
Its become just another swear word.
I think you're very wrong. What you're saying is tantamount to saying that black people shouldn't be offended when someone makes a comment that implies that black people are subhuman, because that's exactly what is done when terms about homosexuality are used as epithets.
I would be willing to bet that there are kids out there who picked up on the word "nigg*r" and use it, and don't even know what it means. Doesn't mean black people shouldn't be offended that such a term (and its implications) is in our lexicon of profanities.
If you are so caught up on words that you don't care to consider the intent of the person using them, then you deserve whatever pain you cause yourself.
Kong: When someone says "The thread is over", unless he or she is a mod, it doesn't mean that the thread is over. It means that a satisfactory conclusion has been reached. Unfortunately, Loren Michael had to come and salvage the thread, so we continue.
How can I -or you- know a person's intent? Even courtrooms debate a person's intent. A comic strip is generally self-explanatory: you either get it or you don't. My response to the PA comics was that I found the use of "gay" and "homo" offensive.
If you are so caught up on words that you don't care to consider the intent of the person using them, then you deserve whatever pain you cause yourself.
Of course. Intent is very important, and I suspect there's both a large group that uses the term ironically, but there's also a large group that uses it in its fully loaded homophobic glory. I suspect that a large number of people in D&D are a part of the former group. I have no idea about the other forums here. I strongly suspect that Gabe and Tycho are also in the former group, so I tend not to care.
The same advice can be offered to anybody who suffers. Is that really helping them?
There is suffering caused by others, and there is suffering caused by oneself.
This is the latter.
So, yes.
What's something unpleasant in your life that you had to "get over"?
I was conscripted to fight a war when I was nine.
That kind of thing doesn't end. I'm still fighting my own war whenever I close my eyes.
But I didn't choose to go to war. You, in a proverbial sense, did, and the quickest way to end a war is to lose.
Well, I started my war for my personal rights when I was 20. I tried taking my life and two other people's. After being hospitalized, I began robbing people to gain a sense of power. I served three years in prison. Now I draw and paint for my personal therapy.
Do you understand that being gay is a daily thing? I don't get a break from the world. It's not something you "get over".
Hey, wait. They don't use "homo". At least, I'm reasonably sure.
Also, I can't find the "apple users are gay" one. And the XBL one... ...
If I attribute a phrase to a horrible horrible person, it rarely means I like what that person is saying. If, for instance, I were to say "God I am tired of getting on XBL and having three people call me a 'fag' in quick succession", you wouldn't tell me I was being homophobic, would you?
Well, I started my war for my personal rights when I was 20. I tried taking my life and two other people's. After being hospitalized, I began robbing people to gain a sense of power. I served three years in prison. Now I draw and paint for my personal therapy.
Do you understand that being gay is a daily thing? I don't get a break from the world. It's not something you "get over".
You know neither how to identify nor how to secure your personal rights.
Hint: linguistic atrophy does not violate your personal rights.
If you are so caught up on words that you don't care to consider the intent of the person using them, then you deserve whatever pain you cause yourself.
Of course. Intent is very important, and I suspect there's both a large group that uses the term ironically, but there's also a large group that uses it in its fully loaded homophobic glory. I suspect that a large number of people in D&D are a part of the former group. I have no idea about the other forums here. I strongly suspect that Gabe and Tycho are also in the former group, so I tend not to care.
When I concluded my initial post, I pointed out that being neutral doesn't help people. Being apathetic and not caring are just as responsible for pain. I understand if you don't care - move on.
Well, I started my war for my personal rights when I was 20. I tried taking my life and two other people's. After being hospitalized, I began robbing people to gain a sense of power. I served three years in prison. Now I draw and paint for my personal therapy.
Do you understand that being gay is a daily thing? I don't get a break from the world. It's not something you "get over".
Oh sweet mother of god no.
He meant you chose to be offended.
We are not letting this become a thread about whether or not homosexuality is a choice.
We. Just. Aren't.
It's times like this when I wish I were a mod -- I can see the train going off the rails, and into a howling despair that is darker than any man has borne witness to, and I'm just standing there with my dick in my hand looking like an idiot.
Well, I started my war for my personal rights when I was 20. I tried taking my life and two other people's. After being hospitalized, I began robbing people to gain a sense of power. I served three years in prison. Now I draw and paint for my personal therapy.
Do you understand that being gay is a daily thing? I don't get a break from the world. It's not something you "get over".
O_o
You realize that a pretty large segment of non-heterosexuals are living pretty normal, pleasant lives these days?
You can join them now you know. You don't need to do the PTSD thing.
Well, I started my war for my personal rights when I was 20. I tried taking my life and two other people's. After being hospitalized, I began robbing people to gain a sense of power. I served three years in prison. Now I draw and paint for my personal therapy.
Do you understand that being gay is a daily thing? I don't get a break from the world. It's not something you "get over".
Oh sweet mother of god no.
He meant you chose to be offended.
We are not letting this become a thread about whether or not homosexuality is a choice.
We. Just. Aren't.
Also, also.
Did you just say "child soldier, quit your bitching"?
Hey, wait. They don't use "homo". At least, I'm reasonably sure.
Also, I can't find the "apple users are gay" one. And the XBL one... ...
If I attribute a phrase to a horrible horrible person, it rarely means I like what that person is saying. If, for instance, I were to say "God I am tired of getting on XBL and having three people call me a 'fag' in quick succession", you wouldn't tell me I was being homophobic, would you?
I'm not sure I follow you, but... My older brother is straight, and he uses the word gay to describe things that are stupid. He only does it around his friends (though he did say it accidentally in my presence once). He doesn't hate gays, but gays (and gay sex) are foreign to him. The root of fear is not knowing - so yes, he is probably homophobic. That doesn't mean I like him any less.
I was in goonswarm for a while. It's pretty much impossible to become genuinely offended online after you hang out with goons for an extended period of time.
Well, I started my war for my personal rights when I was 20. I tried taking my life and two other people's. After being hospitalized, I began robbing people to gain a sense of power. I served three years in prison. Now I draw and paint for my personal therapy.
Do you understand that being gay is a daily thing? I don't get a break from the world. It's not something you "get over".
Oh sweet mother of god no.
He meant you chose to be offended.
We are not letting this become a thread about whether or not homosexuality is a choice.
We. Just. Aren't.
That'd be pretty g-...
Oho.... Almost got me there.
I don't even think people would be able to settle on a cohesive definition for 'gay' as an adjective except maybe 'lame' or 'boring.' And that is really such a slur to you?
In the context of saying "omg thats so gay" the word has become about as far removed from homosexuality as is possible.
I would be willing to bet that there are kids out there who picked up on the word "gay" and use it, and don't even know what it means.
Its become just another swear word.
I think you're very wrong. What you're saying is tantamount to saying that black people shouldn't be offended when someone makes a comment that implies that black people are subhuman, because that's exactly what is done when terms about homosexuality are used as epithets.
I would be willing to bet that there are kids out there who picked up on the word "nigg*r" and use it, and don't even know what it means. Doesn't mean black people shouldn't be offended that such a term (and its implications) is in our lexicon of profanities.
What I meant was, is that you need to consider the intent behind the words, moreso than the words themselves. There is a reason why words are only a fraction of communication.
If I say to my straight friend, "oh, shut up you gay fag", then obviously I am joking. There is no malicious intent behind my words. I could have easily said "shut up dickhead". They're just words.
Did you just say "child soldier, quit your bitching"?
I don't think he did, but if he did, I don't care. I hear that all the time, and, as I make a point of understanding a person's thoughts, feelings, and most importantly, intent, I've learned not to take offence to it.
Hey, wait. They don't use "homo". At least, I'm reasonably sure.
Also, I can't find the "apple users are gay" one. And the XBL one... ...
If I attribute a phrase to a horrible horrible person, it rarely means I like what that person is saying. If, for instance, I were to say "God I am tired of getting on XBL and having three people call me a 'fag' in quick succession", you wouldn't tell me I was being homophobic, would you?
I'm not sure I follow you, but... My older brother is straight, and he uses the word gay to describe things that are stupid. He only does it around his friends (though he did say it accidentally in my presence once). He doesn't hate gays, but gays (and gay sex) are foreign to him. The root of fear is not knowing - so yes, he is probably homophobic. That doesn't mean I like him any less.
.....are you proposing that homophobes just need some deep dicking?
Wait, do homo and gay count as epithets? I mean, queer and faggot and fairy yeah. But I've never heard someone call a homosexual gay when they were trying to insult them.
Actually, I believe "queer" was the PC term for a homosexual for quite some time. It's only derogatory when used in a derogatory fashion (unlike "faggot").
Well, I started my war for my personal rights when I was 20. I tried taking my life and two other people's. After being hospitalized, I began robbing people to gain a sense of power. I served three years in prison. Now I draw and paint for my personal therapy.
Do you understand that being gay is a daily thing? I don't get a break from the world. It's not something you "get over".
Oh sweet mother of god no.
He meant you chose to be offended.
We are not letting this become a thread about whether or not homosexuality is a choice.
We. Just. Aren't.
Also, also.
Did you just say "child soldier, quit your bitching"?
Essentially?
Because wow... that's um. Hm.
I would never condone child soldiers. One of my dormmates in prison was a former executioner-child from Burma. I read his book.
You are right, though. I do choose to be offended. That's part of what lead to my post.
Actually, I believe "queer" was the PC term for a homosexual for quite some time. It's only derogatory when used in a derogatory fashion (unlike "faggot").
Yep.
"Queer Theory" is still a perfectly acceptable field.
Also, "fairy" is as often applied to "dandyism," just like the term "fruit."
While there is an association there, they're often distinct terms.
Wait, do homo and gay count as epithets? I mean, queer and faggot and fairy yeah. But I've never heard someone call a homosexual gay when they were trying to insult them.
Actually, I believe "queer" was the PC term for a homosexual for quite some time. It's only derogatory when used in a derogatory fashion (unlike "faggot").
Queer is generally used by self-hating gays. It is a common condition. I use queer because it denotes rebellion and anger. It doesn't give a non-gay person the right to use it.
Wait, do homo and gay count as epithets? I mean, queer and faggot and fairy yeah. But I've never heard someone call a homosexual gay when they were trying to insult them.
Actually, I believe "queer" was the PC term for a homosexual for quite some time. It's only derogatory when used in a derogatory fashion (unlike "faggot").
Yep.
"Queer Theory" is still a perfectly acceptable field.
My politics of gender class has a "Queer Studies" unit.
Did you just say "child soldier, quit your bitching"?
I don't think he did, but if he did, I don't care. I hear that all the time, and, as I make a point of understanding a person's thoughts, feelings, and most importantly, intent, I've learned not to take offence to it.
Shock and awe.
Man, no.
Start a thread about it, it's how mature people deal with this sort of thing.
Being president of the GSA I had to learn the dang G(ay)L(esbian)B(i)T(ransgender)Q(ueer)Q(uestioning) acronym, and if Queer is actually a slur, I'm pissed at Youth Pride International.
Posts
I am a natural diplomat that believes every single person on the planet has something to contribute to the greater good of the race, and that understanding any problem of humanity's requires a person-by-person understanding of individual thoughts and feelings.
Yet we are in complete agreement. I believe that means the thread is over.
That's a great way to marginalize my experience.
I think you're very wrong. What you're saying is tantamount to saying that black people shouldn't be offended when someone makes a comment that implies that black people are subhuman, because that's exactly what is done when terms about homosexuality are used as epithets.
I would be willing to bet that there are kids out there who picked up on the word "nigg*r" and use it, and don't even know what it means. Doesn't mean black people shouldn't be offended that such a term (and its implications) is in our lexicon of profanities.
'night
If you are so caught up on words that you don't care to consider the intent of the person using them, then you deserve whatever pain you cause yourself.
Kong: When someone says "The thread is over", unless he or she is a mod, it doesn't mean that the thread is over. It means that a satisfactory conclusion has been reached. Unfortunately, Loren Michael had to come and salvage the thread, so we continue.
hehe
gay-be
What's something unpleasant in your life that you had to "get over"?
Dammit I spent time doing this shit for you jackasses, I'm not going to be BoTP'd.
Listen, I can't really explain to you the social dynamics of this forum, or an understanding of the context in which Gabe and Tycho say "faggot."
I used to identify as gay, now I identify as bi, but nowhere along the line did I have any particular aversion to the words "gay" or "faggot."
I have an aversion to the meaning some people put into those words, that can only be put into those words. By building up certain words into monuments of intolerance, you grant them more power, such that they are offensive even when decontextualized or contextualized in an inoffensive setting. This is not doing a service to the people such epithets are aimed at.
Two of my dogs have died.
On the black screen
I was conscripted to fight a war when I was nine.
That kind of thing doesn't end. I'm still fighting my own war whenever I close my eyes.
But I didn't choose to go to war. You, in a proverbial sense, did, and the quickest way to end a war is to lose.
How can I -or you- know a person's intent? Even courtrooms debate a person's intent. A comic strip is generally self-explanatory: you either get it or you don't. My response to the PA comics was that I found the use of "gay" and "homo" offensive.
I find that a little understanding helps. Your strategy of deciding a person's intent for him is clearly flawed.
Of course. Intent is very important, and I suspect there's both a large group that uses the term ironically, but there's also a large group that uses it in its fully loaded homophobic glory. I suspect that a large number of people in D&D are a part of the former group. I have no idea about the other forums here. I strongly suspect that Gabe and Tycho are also in the former group, so I tend not to care.
This is like asking me to pick out a star in the sky.
But hey: Average American vocabularies.
Well, I started my war for my personal rights when I was 20. I tried taking my life and two other people's. After being hospitalized, I began robbing people to gain a sense of power. I served three years in prison. Now I draw and paint for my personal therapy.
Do you understand that being gay is a daily thing? I don't get a break from the world. It's not something you "get over".
of course there are.
Shit, i HATE most gamers and yet I spend a lot of time gaming.
But only with certain gamers.
The rest can go eat a dick.
Also, I can't find the "apple users are gay" one. And the XBL one... ...
If I attribute a phrase to a horrible horrible person, it rarely means I like what that person is saying. If, for instance, I were to say "God I am tired of getting on XBL and having three people call me a 'fag' in quick succession", you wouldn't tell me I was being homophobic, would you?
You know neither how to identify nor how to secure your personal rights.
When I concluded my initial post, I pointed out that being neutral doesn't help people. Being apathetic and not caring are just as responsible for pain. I understand if you don't care - move on.
Oh sweet mother of god no.
He meant you chose to be offended.
We are not letting this become a thread about whether or not homosexuality is a choice.
We. Just. Aren't.
It's times like this when I wish I were a mod -- I can see the train going off the rails, and into a howling despair that is darker than any man has borne witness to, and I'm just standing there with my dick in my hand looking like an idiot.
O_o
You realize that a pretty large segment of non-heterosexuals are living pretty normal, pleasant lives these days?
You can join them now you know. You don't need to do the PTSD thing.
Then I joined the Goonswarm in EVE Online... where the verbs for various game activities are epithets. It's kind of inescapable.
"I'd like to form a small gang for some belt pirating"
"What? You mean cockfagging?"
"I'm just going to spend the evening grinding for money"
"Huh? You mean jewing?"
Also, also.
Did you just say "child soldier, quit your bitching"?
Essentially?
Because wow... that's um. Hm.
so i guess that's pretty cool
I'm not sure I follow you, but... My older brother is straight, and he uses the word gay to describe things that are stupid. He only does it around his friends (though he did say it accidentally in my presence once). He doesn't hate gays, but gays (and gay sex) are foreign to him. The root of fear is not knowing - so yes, he is probably homophobic. That doesn't mean I like him any less.
On the black screen
That'd be pretty g-...
Oho.... Almost got me there.
I don't even think people would be able to settle on a cohesive definition for 'gay' as an adjective except maybe 'lame' or 'boring.' And that is really such a slur to you?
I'll rather actively tell my relatives to not use it in such a light.
But it isn't something to -spaz- about unless it's being used maliciously.
What I meant was, is that you need to consider the intent behind the words, moreso than the words themselves. There is a reason why words are only a fraction of communication.
If I say to my straight friend, "oh, shut up you gay fag", then obviously I am joking. There is no malicious intent behind my words. I could have easily said "shut up dickhead". They're just words.
So in this case, it IS a case of "get over it".
I don't think he did, but if he did, I don't care. I hear that all the time, and, as I make a point of understanding a person's thoughts, feelings, and most importantly, intent, I've learned not to take offence to it.
Shock and awe.
.....are you proposing that homophobes just need some deep dicking?
I would never condone child soldiers. One of my dormmates in prison was a former executioner-child from Burma. I read his book.
You are right, though. I do choose to be offended. That's part of what lead to my post.
Yep.
"Queer Theory" is still a perfectly acceptable field.
Also, "fairy" is as often applied to "dandyism," just like the term "fruit."
While there is an association there, they're often distinct terms.
Queer is generally used by self-hating gays. It is a common condition. I use queer because it denotes rebellion and anger. It doesn't give a non-gay person the right to use it.
My politics of gender class has a "Queer Studies" unit.
Man, no.
Start a thread about it, it's how mature people deal with this sort of thing.
Being president of the GSA I had to learn the dang G(ay)L(esbian)B(i)T(ransgender)Q(ueer)Q(uestioning) acronym, and if Queer is actually a slur, I'm pissed at Youth Pride International.