My whole issue with Grey Worm/Missandei is that it feels like it's part of a separate story. It may be a fine story but I'm not sure it really belongs in this show. Dany already has the feel of a side story but at least the themes are consistent. GW/M is a side story to the side story about things that are pretty much not addressed elsewhere in the story.
Show Stannis is really growing on me this seasons; the slight nod to Jon, the speech he gives to his daughter, the hug right after that, correcting people's grammar...
Really hope that he doesn't bite it when trying to take Winterfell.
Also I am very interested to see what his reaction is going to be to Melisandre and Selyse wanting to burn his daughter.
Didn't Hizdahr propose in the books, rather than the way it played out in this episode?
If they want to have Dany be a more forceful ruler, the way they did in the show works better.
It makes her fall better too, if it's her ideas that end up not working out. They're doing a good job with the parallels between Jon and Dany, both are surrounded by people who want to use them, and are making hard decisions on their own. Both will fail, but for different reasons.
Speaking of Jon, they're really building up R+L=J. Aemon's line "A Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing", Jon immediately enters. I'm calling it now, next season opens with another flashback, this one from Bran greenseeing. They build up R+L this whole season, then confirm it to open next season. Brings Bran back into the story in a big way and ties up a loose end.
I'm a little worried that Mel went with Stannis, but I'm still fairly confident she'll play a hand in Jon's resurrection still. More speculation, and I hate to say it, but Stannis is going to die sooner rather than later. Shireen gets burned alive in an effort to resurrect "Azor Ahai", but it ends up being Jon.
Hey, I'm not sure if I just got spoilered?
AFAIK Dany hasn't fallen yet, unless you mean something different, or there is some leaked information. If we are talking about things that happen in books that aren't published, that should be spoiler tagged as such, if I'm just misunderstanding, my bad!
On Stannis: I know, I like Stannis now too (I also grew to like him in the books, which tells me he's died, horribly...) If I follow GRRM to his natural conclusion, the end of the book will be the world getting saved by Ramsay Snow, and his commander Robert Strong.
On Show Spoilers: I'm starting to get worried, I don't want to get spoiled on something important without knowing that I'm seeing something important. And if the show knows the critical peices of the book, but I like the book, does that mean I should stop watching the show like.. now? A few things that have kind of been spoiled on me now by the show are (and conversation in this particular thread are):
- Stoneheart doesn't matter
- Jon Snow gets resurrected (I mean, I kind of thought there was a chance he was coming back, but I don't like that I know that's true before anything is published at all to confirm it)
- Tyrion turns into a dragon and eats the world (ok, made that one up)
Show Stannis is really growing on me this seasons; the slight nod to Jon, the speech he gives to his daughter, the hug right after that, correcting people's grammar...
Really hope that he doesn't bite it when trying to take Winterfell.
Also I am very interested to see what his reaction is going to be to Melisandre and Selyse wanting to burn his daughter.
I hope show Stannis orders Davos to keep her safe instead of Davos acting on his own (again).
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
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Didn't Hizdahr propose in the books, rather than the way it played out in this episode?
If they want to have Dany be a more forceful ruler, the way they did in the show works better.
It makes her fall better too, if it's her ideas that end up not working out. They're doing a good job with the parallels between Jon and Dany, both are surrounded by people who want to use them, and are making hard decisions on their own. Both will fail, but for different reasons.
Speaking of Jon, they're really building up R+L=J. Aemon's line "A Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing", Jon immediately enters. I'm calling it now, next season opens with another flashback, this one from Bran greenseeing. They build up R+L this whole season, then confirm it to open next season. Brings Bran back into the story in a big way and ties up a loose end.
I'm a little worried that Mel went with Stannis, but I'm still fairly confident she'll play a hand in Jon's resurrection still. More speculation, and I hate to say it, but Stannis is going to die sooner rather than later. Shireen gets burned alive in an effort to resurrect "Azor Ahai", but it ends up being Jon.
Hey, I'm not sure if I just got spoilered?
AFAIK Dany hasn't fallen yet, unless you mean something different, or there is some leaked information. If we are talking about things that happen in books that aren't published, that should be spoiler tagged as such, if I'm just misunderstanding, my bad!
On Stannis: I know, I like Stannis now too (I also grew to like him in the books, which tells me he's died, horribly...) If I follow GRRM to his natural conclusion, the end of the book will be the world getting saved by Ramsay Snow, and his commander Robert Strong.
On Show Spoilers: I'm starting to get worried, I don't want to get spoiled on something important without knowing that I'm seeing something important. And if the show knows the critical peices of the book, but I like the book, does that mean I should stop watching the show like.. now? A few things that have kind of been spoiled on me now by the show are (and conversation in this particular thread are):
- Stoneheart doesn't matter
- Jon Snow gets resurrected (I mean, I kind of thought there was a chance he was coming back, but I don't like that I know that's true before anything is published at all to confirm it)
- Tyrion turns into a dragon and eats the world (ok, made that one up)
The only way to avoid spoilers or implied spoilers to the books is to stop watching the show at this point, yep
AFAIK Dany hasn't fallen yet, unless you mean something different, or there is some leaked information. If we are talking about things that happen in books that aren't published, that should be spoiler tagged as such, if I'm just misunderstanding, my bad!
- Jon Snow gets resurrected (I mean, I kind of thought there was a chance he was coming back, but I don't like that I know that's true before anything is published at all to confirm it)
Daney is in the middle of the wilderness after riding away on Drogon. She is found by another Khal to unknown results.
So that can definitely be described as a fall.
In general, the lead up to that. The Sons of the Harpy get worse for a while, the dragons get freed, Mereen is under siege from everyone else in Essos, Pale Mare. All of that is her fall, she thinks she's doing well controlling the city, but all she really does it make it worse for everyone else.
As for Jon, we don't know he's going to get resurrected, it's just generally assumed. Some people WANT Jon to be dead, if only because him coming back would feel cheap/cliched, but I think that's a minority.
thanks for the explanations, yes, that makes sense
Is anyone else surprised we've seen nothing of Bran this season? Will he be recast in the future? His story gets pretty deep after relocating to the tree.
thanks for the explanations, yes, that makes sense
Is anyone else surprised we've seen nothing of Bran this season? Will he be recast in the future? His story gets pretty deep after relocating to the tree.
No Bran this season has been known since before the season aired. He's pretty much caught up to where he is in the books at this point. So long as he doesn't have to move in his new position, they can probably keep the same actor and hide how huge he's gotten compared to season 1.
thanks for the explanations, yes, that makes sense
Is anyone else surprised we've seen nothing of Bran this season? Will he be recast in the future? His story gets pretty deep after relocating to the tree.
There are no scenes with Bran this season, as was revealed during shooting last year.
So yeah, his stuff is a big deal, but none of it directly influences current goings on at this point.
Would be cool for him to get his moment traveling through time via the trees though, but it would involve bringing some actors back for cameo / flashback purposes.
They did it with Khal Drogo.
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Let's play Mario Kart or something...
directly feeding people to your dragons is going to help much with the problem of them randomly eating people up. Which is why they've been locked up in the first place.
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Element BrianPeanut Butter ShillRegistered Userregular
directly feeding people to your dragons is going to help much with the problem of them randomly eating people up. Which is why they've been locked up in the first place.
ehh
she's gotta use those dragons for war anyway, maybe teaching them to only eat humans when you present them to them is better so they depend on you instead of randomly claiming them
directly feeding people to your dragons is going to help much with the problem of them randomly eating people up. Which is why they've been locked up in the first place.
This is why Dany should have had a dog before trying to train dragons
I mean, this is learned behavior 101 girl, now they've tasted human food they're not going to eat their kibble
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HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
its not like you can bring them to the vet when they eat something they shouldn't and get diarrhea Dany
directly feeding people to your dragons is going to help much with the problem of them randomly eating people up. Which is why they've been locked up in the first place.
ehh
she's gotta use those dragons for war anyway, maybe teaching them to only eat humans when you present them to them is better so they depend on you instead of randomly claiming them
The scene also reminds the kind masters that the Dragons exist, and in a way that hides the fact she can't control them anymore.
directly feeding people to your dragons is going to help much with the problem of them randomly eating people up. Which is why they've been locked up in the first place.
ehh
she's gotta use those dragons for war anyway, maybe teaching them to only eat humans when you present them to them is better so they depend on you instead of randomly claiming them
My friend had a similar reaction to some about the feeding and I pointed out that she's not planning on using the dragons as parade mounts.
Daney is in the middle of the wilderness after riding away on Drogon. She is found by another Khal to unknown results.
So that can definitely be described as a fall.
The point would be more that it's a failure of her stab at leadership. Her entire plan to rule Mereen justly and all that completely fails at basically every level.
As I've said before, the likely outcome of all this is Dany decides this peace and justice thing is bullshit and goes back to the old Fire and Blood, regains control of a Mongol Horde and alot of ships and returns to Westeros a much more troubling ruler.
directly feeding people to your dragons is going to help much with the problem of them randomly eating people up. Which is why they've been locked up in the first place.
ehh
she's gotta use those dragons for war anyway, maybe teaching them to only eat humans when you present them to them is better so they depend on you instead of randomly claiming them
The scene also reminds the kind masters that the Dragons exist, and in a way that hides the fact she can't control them anymore.
She wasn't trying to hide that at all. She literally said that they may or may not listen to her. She was comparing them to her unruly children and showing how she punishes such behavior.
directly feeding people to your dragons is going to help much with the problem of them randomly eating people up. Which is why they've been locked up in the first place.
ehh
she's gotta use those dragons for war anyway, maybe teaching them to only eat humans when you present them to them is better so they depend on you instead of randomly claiming them
The scene also reminds the kind masters that the Dragons exist, and in a way that hides the fact she can't control them anymore.
She wasn't trying to hide that at all. She literally said that they may or may not listen to her. She was comparing them to her unruly children and showing how she punishes such behavior.
I was disappointed she didn't compare that to the noble families and how she wants them to get their 'children' under control. How she's not going to give up on them so quickly just because they are unruly.
The issue I have with changing the proposal is... Hizdahr's behind the whole plot and basically seeking to make himself King of Mereen. If they don't change that, the plot... doesn't really make sense.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
The Meereenese Blot guy makes a pretty convincing case for Hizdahr not being behind much of anything.
The issue I have with changing the proposal is... Hizdahr's behind the whole plot and basically seeking to make himself King of Mereen. If they don't change that, the plot... doesn't really make sense.
I think they must be changing that. In the dragon scene Dany clearly made up her mind that he wasn't involved with the Harpys. The way that guy has been playing it in the show so far it would be a feat of acting for him to suddenly appear credibly as the mastermind behind it all.
The Meereenese Blot guy makes a pretty convincing case for Hizdahr not being behind much of anything.
The poisoned honeyed locusts were a red herring?
They were poisoned, but we don't know by who. The Blot's author points out that the supposed confession by the man who did the poisoning was gained by the Shavepate, a character with a reputation for torture. Every poisoning we've read to date involves a patsy being involved while Loraq being the culprit would be very, very clumsy and straightforward in comparison. And the evidence and testimony against Loraq almost all comes from the Shavepate who hates the other noble families and wants war with them.
So it may not be as cut and dry as it seems when we first read things no matter how much we cheered on Selmy and the Beasts.
Time to be that motherfucker in every zombie movie.
So does this mean the white mare is getting replaced by grey scale in Mereen? Not pleased that this is Jorah's fate, I've always pulled for him to shape up and become the queen's man he was meant to be.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
They're probably skipping the white mare.
I also have a feeling that they're going to give the Battle of Meereen the good ol' Green Fork treatment. Dragon CGI is expensive, after all, and they've got a perfectly good dragonless battle about to happen at or near Winterfell.
I doubt that. Jorah has to take his plague somewhere, and he happens to be on the road to Mereen already. I think it's more likely that it never reaches Westeros, since there is no Aegon to drive it across the sea.
Old Targaryen saying and the ginger protection clause got me.
To be serious a bit:
I hope like hell they don't have Aemon leave the wall to go join up with Dany. He refused the crown a couple times before and actually took the black because if he hung around he'd undermine the actual grand maester. For him to turn away from all of that at the end cause he feels bad for Dany would be so weird.
If anything of actual importance happens to Aemon it will be his death. IIRC, didn't Jon send Sam to go get Maester training in the books precisely because Aemon was old and it was past time to start grooming his replacement?
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
If anything of actual importance happens to Aemon it will be his death. IIRC, didn't Jon send Sam to go get Maester training in the books precisely because Aemon was old and it was past time to start grooming his replacement?
Well, it was mostly because Jon was afraid that Melisandre was going to burn Aemon and/or Mance's baby.
If anything of actual importance happens to Aemon it will be his death. IIRC, didn't Jon send Sam to go get Maester training in the books precisely because Aemon was old and it was past time to start grooming his replacement?
Well, it was mostly because Jon was afraid that Melisandre was going to burn Aemon and/or Mance's baby.
I remember that now, so I guess getting the next Castle Black Maester all official was just kind of a bonus?
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Really hope that he doesn't bite it when trying to take Winterfell.
Also I am very interested to see what his reaction is going to be to Melisandre and Selyse wanting to burn his daughter.
Hey, I'm not sure if I just got spoilered?
AFAIK Dany hasn't fallen yet, unless you mean something different, or there is some leaked information. If we are talking about things that happen in books that aren't published, that should be spoiler tagged as such, if I'm just misunderstanding, my bad!
On Stannis: I know, I like Stannis now too (I also grew to like him in the books, which tells me he's died, horribly...) If I follow GRRM to his natural conclusion, the end of the book will be the world getting saved by Ramsay Snow, and his commander Robert Strong.
On Show Spoilers: I'm starting to get worried, I don't want to get spoiled on something important without knowing that I'm seeing something important. And if the show knows the critical peices of the book, but I like the book, does that mean I should stop watching the show like.. now? A few things that have kind of been spoiled on me now by the show are (and conversation in this particular thread are):
- Stoneheart doesn't matter
- Jon Snow gets resurrected (I mean, I kind of thought there was a chance he was coming back, but I don't like that I know that's true before anything is published at all to confirm it)
- Tyrion turns into a dragon and eats the world (ok, made that one up)
So that can definitely be described as a fall.
I hope show Stannis orders Davos to keep her safe instead of Davos acting on his own (again).
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
The only way to avoid spoilers or implied spoilers to the books is to stop watching the show at this point, yep
In general, the lead up to that. The Sons of the Harpy get worse for a while, the dragons get freed, Mereen is under siege from everyone else in Essos, Pale Mare. All of that is her fall, she thinks she's doing well controlling the city, but all she really does it make it worse for everyone else.
As for Jon, we don't know he's going to get resurrected, it's just generally assumed. Some people WANT Jon to be dead, if only because him coming back would feel cheap/cliched, but I think that's a minority.
Is anyone else surprised we've seen nothing of Bran this season? Will he be recast in the future? His story gets pretty deep after relocating to the tree.
No Bran this season has been known since before the season aired. He's pretty much caught up to where he is in the books at this point. So long as he doesn't have to move in his new position, they can probably keep the same actor and hide how huge he's gotten compared to season 1.
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There are no scenes with Bran this season, as was revealed during shooting last year.
So yeah, his stuff is a big deal, but none of it directly influences current goings on at this point.
Would be cool for him to get his moment traveling through time via the trees though, but it would involve bringing some actors back for cameo / flashback purposes.
They did it with Khal Drogo.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
ehh
she's gotta use those dragons for war anyway, maybe teaching them to only eat humans when you present them to them is better so they depend on you instead of randomly claiming them
Arch,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
This is why Dany should have had a dog before trying to train dragons
I mean, this is learned behavior 101 girl, now they've tasted human food they're not going to eat their kibble
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NNID: Hakkekage
The scene also reminds the kind masters that the Dragons exist, and in a way that hides the fact she can't control them anymore.
My friend had a similar reaction to some about the feeding and I pointed out that she's not planning on using the dragons as parade mounts.
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3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
The point would be more that it's a failure of her stab at leadership. Her entire plan to rule Mereen justly and all that completely fails at basically every level.
As I've said before, the likely outcome of all this is Dany decides this peace and justice thing is bullshit and goes back to the old Fire and Blood, regains control of a Mongol Horde and alot of ships and returns to Westeros a much more troubling ruler.
She wasn't trying to hide that at all. She literally said that they may or may not listen to her. She was comparing them to her unruly children and showing how she punishes such behavior.
I was disappointed she didn't compare that to the noble families and how she wants them to get their 'children' under control. How she's not going to give up on them so quickly just because they are unruly.
I think they must be changing that. In the dragon scene Dany clearly made up her mind that he wasn't involved with the Harpys. The way that guy has been playing it in the show so far it would be a feat of acting for him to suddenly appear credibly as the mastermind behind it all.
The poisoned honeyed locusts were a red herring?
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
They were poisoned, but we don't know by who. The Blot's author points out that the supposed confession by the man who did the poisoning was gained by the Shavepate, a character with a reputation for torture. Every poisoning we've read to date involves a patsy being involved while Loraq being the culprit would be very, very clumsy and straightforward in comparison. And the evidence and testimony against Loraq almost all comes from the Shavepate who hates the other noble families and wants war with them.
So it may not be as cut and dry as it seems when we first read things no matter how much we cheered on Selmy and the Beasts.
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by whom
/stannis
Touche.
Also: GoT 5.5
"They killed Grenn and Pyp"
"What have the writers got to do with this?"
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"What have the writers got to do with this?"
edit: How did I totally miss the post above mine...
So does this mean the white mare is getting replaced by grey scale in Mereen? Not pleased that this is Jorah's fate, I've always pulled for him to shape up and become the queen's man he was meant to be.
I also have a feeling that they're going to give the Battle of Meereen the good ol' Green Fork treatment. Dragon CGI is expensive, after all, and they've got a perfectly good dragonless battle about to happen at or near Winterfell.
I doubt that. Jorah has to take his plague somewhere, and he happens to be on the road to Mereen already. I think it's more likely that it never reaches Westeros, since there is no Aegon to drive it across the sea.
/Stannis
I died at #notallmasters
To be serious a bit:
Well, it was mostly because Jon was afraid that Melisandre was going to burn Aemon and/or Mance's baby.
I remember that now, so I guess getting the next Castle Black Maester all official was just kind of a bonus?
I really need to re-read these books sometime.