I played a game this weekend with some friends of mine. Looking for maybe some advice on how to handle the composition that we went against. We got rolled hard, and we couldn't really ever figure out what to do. It was a full 5 premade against another 5 premade.
The map was Sky Temple.
My team was: Muradin, Uther (me), Sylvanas, Jaina, and Zagara.
Enemy team was: Stitches, Leoric, Abathur, Malfurion, Valla
So the way the enemy team was playing post level 10 was that Abathur was hatting Stitches or Leoric. He was their primary source of damage. Valla went full AA build, and while her damage was significant, Abathur had highest Hero damage contribution for the match.
We couldn't get through their front line, and the DPS on my team couldn't figure out who to shoot. Valla was the obvious choice since she's squishy and generally easy to kill. But even with our range advantage, we couldn't get to her. If we moved to get into range, Stitches would just hook us back out of range. Also, she just vaulted out of range anytime we shot at her.
The important target was whoever Abathur was hatting, but since he was hatting 2 tanks, neither was a preferred target.
I was the healer, so it wasn't really my job to get the DPS on anyone. I was just frantically trying to keep everyone alive.
Did we just draft a bad team to fight a heavy front-line melee composition? Or is there a way to effectively counter this with the team we drafted?
I played a game this weekend with some friends of mine. Looking for maybe some advice on how to handle the composition that we went against. We got rolled hard, and we couldn't really ever figure out what to do. It was a full 5 premade against another 5 premade.
The map was Sky Temple.
My team was: Muradin, Uther (me), Sylvanas, Jaina, and Zagara.
Enemy team was: Stitches, Leoric, Abathur, Malfurion, Valla
So the way the enemy team was playing post level 10 was that Abathur was hatting Stitches or Leoric. He was their primary source of damage. Valla went full AA build, and while her damage was significant, Abathur had highest Hero damage contribution for the match.
We couldn't get through their front line, and the DPS on my team couldn't figure out who to shoot. Valla was the obvious choice since she's squishy and generally easy to kill. But even with our range advantage, we couldn't get to her. If we moved to get into range, Stitches would just hook us back out of range. Also, she just vaulted out of range anytime we shot at her.
The important target was whoever Abathur was hatting, but since he was hatting 2 tanks, neither was a preferred target.
I was the healer, so it wasn't really my job to get the DPS on anyone. I was just frantically trying to keep everyone alive.
Did we just draft a bad team to fight a heavy front-line melee composition? Or is there a way to effectively counter this with the team we drafted?
There's a few things you could've done.
Zagara should've been aiming to get huge Maws (3+ people, at the very least 2) leading into Jaina combo and Sylvanas Wailing Arrow. That alone, in theory, would win you teamfights.
If they were keen to the whole Maw thing (and thus splitting off), Sylvanas should've been initiating with Wailing Arrow and everyone else going in after that. Jaina Combo, Divine Storm (doesn't seem like a good game for Divine Shield imo), all that jazz.
Muradin and Uther should've been working together to coordinate their stuns on a priority target (Valla). Muradin's very mobile, he'd be able to Dwarf Toss in, Thunderclap, hopefully bait out the Vault, then Stormbolt. Uther follows up with Hammer, then Divine Storm. If not Valla, then Malf. Lock out their healing and they're fucked.
Alternatively, it sounds like Stitches was the real thorn in your sides, so focusing him might not have been a bad idea? From what it sounds like, the Stitches was easily able to get hooks off, which means you were probably not grouping that well?
Regardless, your team comp definitely seemed equipped to handle theirs, or at the very least pick off one or two people and thus giving a teamfight advantage.
If you have a hotslogs link, mind posting that? I'd like to look over talents and such.
the problem with playing a support in solo QM is when you get players that tend to ignore objectives and/or merc camps because you can't do shit by yourself.
That's not a support problem, that's a general problem with QM. A lone assassin is not gonna be able to take an objective by themselves if the enemy team shows up. Mercs are different, because some characters can solo mercs fine. I've had fun being playing Gazlowe as a merc machine. In between objectives, of course.
Well, you can do plenty in those games to decide things... unless you are a support.
Sometimes a lane just needs to be pushed and no one is doing it. Sometimes you can ninja a merc camp cause you see the enemy team on the other side of the map.. except you have no chance as a support (even if you can solo it it will take so long you will prolly get caught). Things like that. Or on spiders you cannot solo down one of the webweavers and your team just ignores it.
The biggest issue though, is in a lot of these games the OTHER team is making these mistakes too. Play an assassin or specialist? You can be the one to make a few risky but high reward plays and push the game in your favor. Play a support? Better hope your team is going to push a good team fight. If they force their way into a 2v5 that only becomes 3v5 if you help is going to basically invalidate your existance. Get in the fight and lose, you are down 3, ignore the fight, you now are defending a push with 3. So either way it sucks. But, if you get at LEAST 4v5s or your team engages but just never at full health you CAN fix those things and turn it around yourself.
Now, a warrior? Try playing THAT in QM with a bad team. You not only tend to do bad damage but your only role is to start a fight. If you have a bad team this will almost always lead to you dieing pointlessly. Sure, you could build damage. You also are basically turning yourself into a bad bruiser/assassin. Warrior is the absolutely most useless role on a bad team. You can be ETC and keep your team topped off before every fight and start EVERY fight with a perfect 5 hit mosh pit. If your team runs away at the beginning of every fight it made your play 100% pointless.
Support in QM = I can heal my team up FOR DAYS but the Assassins aren't focusing damage and the Warrior isn't frontlining or peeling or engaging at all! I can't do anything as a Support!
Warrior in QM = I can frontline and peel and engage FOR DAYS, but the Assassins and Support aren't following up on my setups! I charge forward and they just stand there leaving me to die! I can't do anything as a Warrior!
Assassin in QM = I can do HELLA DAMAGE FOR DAYS, but my Warrior isn't frontlining or peeling or engaging, and my Support isn't healing me or anything, and the rest of the Assassins aren't focusing damage! I can't do anything as an Assassin!
It's a problem with QM, not necessarily with Supports. I will agree that Supports in QM tend to have less overall impact than say, an Assassin/Warrior, though. You can be playing to the best of your ability but you're still relying on the rest of your team to actually make things happen.
Assassins dont need anyone else to kill people. If the other team makes a mistake an assassin can kill them. So no, they do not have the same issues.
And even a bad teamfight can be won by a good support. Only the WORST teams do zero damage, if you keep the right people alive you will come out on top.
But a warrior basically does ONE thing then does mediocre damage. That is initiate (and take and mitigate damage). If your team doesn't know how to take advantage of this then you are 100% useless.
I'd love to know what kind of voodoo you're pulling to get good QM games, cause mine always play out like so:
Support- Never healing anyone, clueless
Warrior- Never frontlining/engaging/peeling, clueless
Assassins- Either splitting damage across the entire enemy team (i.e. not focusing damage) or waddling around in circles like scared little babbies.
Regardless, yeah. Assassins without a doubt have the highest impact out of any role. I'd say Support have the lowest? Whenever I play Support our Assassins split damage like crazy and have no coordination. Aaaand Warriors are probably somewhere in the middle. I wouldn't say Warriors do only one thing. They're there to protect the backline, which means bullying away the enemy team and being a general barricade, as well as CCing.
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Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Abathur doing a shitton of damage is not uncommon.
Before they ruined everything by getting rid of the 'healing done' tab for Abathur (who has healing AND mitigation abilities/talents) I had a game where I topped literally every category for the game.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Can't protect a backline that doesn't engage.
The reason support are more useful is they do not just heal up people in teamfights. They sustain you out of them. If your team isn't teamfighting at least you can keep them healed up to do whatever else they are doing. Makes them less likely to be ganked.
If your team fails engagements, it means they are unprotectable. Likely you are dieing first (as the warrior) and then they either just leave or THEN engage when you are dead. You cannot protect an assassin that does not engage. Nor can you when you are the first to die because you are doing your job. Also, if assassins are splitting damage they are still DOING damage and as a good support you just keep them alive. Eventually something either has to die or disengage and weather its dead or not fighting your job becomes easier because less damage.
My QMs aren't always good. But typically if my side is doing bad things so is the other side. I rarely get ones where I have a complete braindead team and the other one is playing their A game. The only lopsided games I have are when one team comp is just trash and the other is near meta.
However of all the roles I play the most drastic difference in enjoyment is on warriors. On a good game I feel like I am the driving force of a great engagement. On a bad game I feel like there is NOTHING I can do to change it. I never feel that way on support.
I had a Nazeebo game on Battlefield of Eternity last night where the game ended our 15 kills to their 21. We won and had no damage on our structures (even walls) at the end -- I had taken MULE and was using it liberally. I have no idea how we won so decisively lane-wise when they seemed to be outkilling us during the immortal fight clusterfucks. Somehow they didn't win any immortals either.
The other team had an Abathur so I'm going to assume he was stinking it up for them.
Edit: I don't know if I should be taking MULE over Gidbinn as Naz.
I've lost games as the other team in this kind of matchup.
If your team can't convert those kills into a push against the other team's immortal, it doesn't really accomplish much other then weakening you for when they respawn.
Gonna need you to look reeeeal close at what I posted.
Ah, but consider this: he is part of Diablo 2.
*looks at cover*
Nope, it's Diablo II.
Weren't all the Prime Evils absorbed into one new Diablo, a stronger Diablo, a... Diablo 2, even?
Not that I have any clue whether HotS Diablo is that Diablo.
Diablo.
The HotS Diablo is the Diablo 1/2 Diablo.
HotS doesn't respect timelines. Also there was a specific reason for this - Diablo was developed for the game before Femablo was finalized? Or it was to avoid Diablo 3 spoilers for the time? I forget exactly.
Diablo in game is either the Dark Wanderer or the Diablo from the first game. He's bulky as hell.
But yeah, all the cinematics show Femdiablo which is *Goddammit blizzard* Prime Evil Diablo. Even though he was one of the Prime Evils, now he is THE Prime Evil.
God, they just literally couldn't do some more world building and introduce some new shit. No, they had to bring back a character that was killed about as definitively as you could kill a character.
EDIT: For that matter, they brought back basically every one iconic guys that they could. Skeleton King and Butcher are in the game despite being killed/put to rest in the first (and the Butcher goes from being the first boss to the end boss). Then Izazael is somehow brought to heaven by way of the burning legions thanks to the damn new Diablo, despite you killing his cursed form and releasing his spirit.
God, I just hate the story of Diablo III so much.
I really, really want them to bring in Tal Rasha as a character in Heroes of the Storm. He was such an utter fucking badass.
Tal Rasha or Baal?
Because Tal-Rasha as you meet him in the games is Baal.
I played a game this weekend with some friends of mine. Looking for maybe some advice on how to handle the composition that we went against. We got rolled hard, and we couldn't really ever figure out what to do. It was a full 5 premade against another 5 premade.
The map was Sky Temple.
My team was: Muradin, Uther (me), Sylvanas, Jaina, and Zagara.
Enemy team was: Stitches, Leoric, Abathur, Malfurion, Valla
So the way the enemy team was playing post level 10 was that Abathur was hatting Stitches or Leoric. He was their primary source of damage. Valla went full AA build, and while her damage was significant, Abathur had highest Hero damage contribution for the match.
We couldn't get through their front line, and the DPS on my team couldn't figure out who to shoot. Valla was the obvious choice since she's squishy and generally easy to kill. But even with our range advantage, we couldn't get to her. If we moved to get into range, Stitches would just hook us back out of range. Also, she just vaulted out of range anytime we shot at her.
The important target was whoever Abathur was hatting, but since he was hatting 2 tanks, neither was a preferred target.
I was the healer, so it wasn't really my job to get the DPS on anyone. I was just frantically trying to keep everyone alive.
Did we just draft a bad team to fight a heavy front-line melee composition? Or is there a way to effectively counter this with the team we drafted?
There's a few things you could've done.
Zagara should've been aiming to get huge Maws (3+ people, at the very least 2) leading into Jaina combo and Sylvanas Wailing Arrow. That alone, in theory, would win you teamfights.
If they were keen to the whole Maw thing (and thus splitting off), Sylvanas should've been initiating with Wailing Arrow and everyone else going in after that. Jaina Combo, Divine Storm (doesn't seem like a good game for Divine Shield imo), all that jazz.
Muradin and Uther should've been working together to coordinate their stuns on a priority target (Valla). Muradin's very mobile, he'd be able to Dwarf Toss in, Thunderclap, hopefully bait out the Vault, then Stormbolt. Uther follows up with Hammer, then Divine Storm. If not Valla, then Malf. Lock out their healing and they're fucked.
Alternatively, it sounds like Stitches was the real thorn in your sides, so focusing him might not have been a bad idea? From what it sounds like, the Stitches was easily able to get hooks off, which means you were probably not grouping that well?
Regardless, your team comp definitely seemed equipped to handle theirs, or at the very least pick off one or two people and thus giving a teamfight advantage.
If you have a hotslogs link, mind posting that? I'd like to look over talents and such.
That double warrior comp though is pretty tough. They just bully their way into your face and keep you from moving in to target their squishies.
I'm no pro but since they had malf, burst healing is weak so maybe Jaina / Zag could focus down one of their tanks and then disengage for cooldowns (just step back a bit) and repeat?
Stitches and Leoric are tough to kill, more so with Aba as a hat.
I played a game this weekend with some friends of mine. Looking for maybe some advice on how to handle the composition that we went against. We got rolled hard, and we couldn't really ever figure out what to do. It was a full 5 premade against another 5 premade.
The map was Sky Temple.
My team was: Muradin, Uther (me), Sylvanas, Jaina, and Zagara.
Enemy team was: Stitches, Leoric, Abathur, Malfurion, Valla
So the way the enemy team was playing post level 10 was that Abathur was hatting Stitches or Leoric. He was their primary source of damage. Valla went full AA build, and while her damage was significant, Abathur had highest Hero damage contribution for the match.
We couldn't get through their front line, and the DPS on my team couldn't figure out who to shoot. Valla was the obvious choice since she's squishy and generally easy to kill. But even with our range advantage, we couldn't get to her. If we moved to get into range, Stitches would just hook us back out of range. Also, she just vaulted out of range anytime we shot at her.
The important target was whoever Abathur was hatting, but since he was hatting 2 tanks, neither was a preferred target.
I was the healer, so it wasn't really my job to get the DPS on anyone. I was just frantically trying to keep everyone alive.
Did we just draft a bad team to fight a heavy front-line melee composition? Or is there a way to effectively counter this with the team we drafted?
There's a few things you could've done.
Zagara should've been aiming to get huge Maws (3+ people, at the very least 2) leading into Jaina combo and Sylvanas Wailing Arrow. That alone, in theory, would win you teamfights.
If they were keen to the whole Maw thing (and thus splitting off), Sylvanas should've been initiating with Wailing Arrow and everyone else going in after that. Jaina Combo, Divine Storm (doesn't seem like a good game for Divine Shield imo), all that jazz.
Muradin and Uther should've been working together to coordinate their stuns on a priority target (Valla). Muradin's very mobile, he'd be able to Dwarf Toss in, Thunderclap, hopefully bait out the Vault, then Stormbolt. Uther follows up with Hammer, then Divine Storm. If not Valla, then Malf. Lock out their healing and they're fucked.
Alternatively, it sounds like Stitches was the real thorn in your sides, so focusing him might not have been a bad idea? From what it sounds like, the Stitches was easily able to get hooks off, which means you were probably not grouping that well?
Regardless, your team comp definitely seemed equipped to handle theirs, or at the very least pick off one or two people and thus giving a teamfight advantage.
If you have a hotslogs link, mind posting that? I'd like to look over talents and such.
That double warrior comp though is pretty tough. They just bully their way into your face and keep you from moving in to target their squishies.
I'm no pro but since they had malf, burst healing is weak so maybe Jaina / Zag could focus down one of their tanks and then disengage for cooldowns (just step back a bit) and repeat?
Stitches and Leoric are tough to kill, more so with Aba as a hat.
Yeah, you also could've had Zagara use Maw on the tanks. Disable them, unrestrained access to their backline, albeit a somewhat short window.
Double tank comps are pretty nasty to go up against, they're just giant bullies and they tend to control engagements pretty well.
Buuuut, they had Leoric/Stitches, which means although their able to just waltz right into your team, they didn't really have much in the way of CC or lockdown.
What happens to Aba's view/symbiote if the person they're hatting is gorged?
Anything that removes them from play ends the hat, like Gorge, Maw, etc. Anything that merely stuns them will allow it to persist.
If you get stunned, hats end, but that only applies to Apocalypse, pretty much.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
The most annoying thing on earth is trying to hat a fucking Tassadar.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Yay love playing games where we go down in levels 20-14.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
That might be a record.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Would it be possible to make sure that if we talk about data-mined heroes that you spoiler it? I like the idea of logging in one day and seeing the new hero show up.
That's not really feasible, especially when it's been datamined that they're about to drop. A lot of the discussion right before Butcher and Leoric dropped, for example, was potential builds that could be used from the datamined talents.
The week it drops is cool. But I mean the ones that are datamined overall. I'd rather not see a list of who's on the way out.
if it makes you feel any better, the big list of "characters that have stuff in the game" is populated with a bunch of characters that have been abandoned :P
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Don't ask me how, I have no idea how it got to that point.
Uncoordinated teams, keep splitting off into 1's and 2's, leaving me as a Falstad to defend our base while our Leoric and Sylvanas get bruisers. This was a 5 man and we were on voice coms too, so I dunno.
Also Matchmaking for 4 and 5 man teams seems to be unbalanced as fuck. In the last 4 games I played as a 5 man, one has had an MMR difference of 90 (acceptable) two have had a difference of 300 (kinda fucked) and one had an MMR difference of 700 (jesus why). Admittedly going off Hotslogs numbers so they may be inaccurate but it sure doesn't feel like it.
STATE OF THE ART ROBOT on
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Also Matchmaking for 4 and 5 man teams seems to be unbalanced as fuck. In the last 4 games I played as a 5 man, one has had an MMR difference of 90 (acceptable) two have had a difference of 300 (kinda fucked) and one had an MMR difference of 700 (jesus why). Admittedly going off Hotslogs numbers so they may be inaccurate but it sure doesn't feel like it.
Yeah, this is pretty common knowledge; five man queues tend towards stomps, because it's usually five people of similar skill level queuing together, and it's not like two groups of 5 of the same skill level are going to queue at the same time.
Just realized Mecha Tassadar isn't the full 50% off most items are for the weekly sale. Well, guess I'm not grabbing that.
I knew that Mecha was on sale this week, but never saw how much... what's it at pricewise? (At work behind walls atm)
11.25, so think it's only 25% off.
Pfffffffft... I scoff at your pricing blizzard... Pay more than a tenner for a skin? This is not a sale worth the name. I bid thee good day.
I'm not really sure what their goal is there. I'm pretty sure 11 dollars for a skin is still outside the impulse buy range for a lot of people and presumably they've netted almost everyone who's willing to pay over ten bucks for it. I mean, I think I've seen each legendary skin in a match once my entire time playing HotS, but maybe that's just luck.
Kind of hilarious because I was planning on grabbing it at 7.50 despite not being super huge on the skin just for the awesome mount and then possibly grabbing Kaiju Diablo to go with it, but now I'm not gonna get either.
Also Matchmaking for 4 and 5 man teams seems to be unbalanced as fuck. In the last 4 games I played as a 5 man, one has had an MMR difference of 90 (acceptable) two have had a difference of 300 (kinda fucked) and one had an MMR difference of 700 (jesus why). Admittedly going off Hotslogs numbers so they may be inaccurate but it sure doesn't feel like it.
Yeah, this is pretty common knowledge; five man queues tend towards stomps, because it's usually five people of similar skill level queuing together, and it's not like two groups of 5 of the same skill level are going to queue at the same time.
They need to fix that because it is just unfun. I don't mind a bit of a longer wait if it means I get to play an actual game.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Also Matchmaking for 4 and 5 man teams seems to be unbalanced as fuck. In the last 4 games I played as a 5 man, one has had an MMR difference of 90 (acceptable) two have had a difference of 300 (kinda fucked) and one had an MMR difference of 700 (jesus why). Admittedly going off Hotslogs numbers so they may be inaccurate but it sure doesn't feel like it.
Yeah, this is pretty common knowledge; five man queues tend towards stomps, because it's usually five people of similar skill level queuing together, and it's not like two groups of 5 of the same skill level are going to queue at the same time.
They need to fix that because it is just unfun. I don't mind a bit of a longer wait if it means I get to play an actual game.
If you want to get an even 5-stack match I wouldn't be surprised if it was like, 10-20 minutes of waiting on that. Blizzard is clear they don't want to go up that high like the other MOBA's do.
The problem is, Quick Match - by very definition - is meant to happen quickly. Even if they continue to tweak it a bit, they are never going to give entirely satisfactory matches because that isn't the goal. The goal is to get you into a game as fast as possible. Hence the name.
Unfortunately, for them Quick Match is a playground for testing builds, getting as many matches as possible, and raising hero/account levels. It is not intended for serious play. That's how I personally treat it, because that's how Blizzard has defined it. I don't give one flying fuck about my MMR in QM, or really even whether I win or lose. Yes, I always play to win. It's not a matter of not trying. I always try, and I never give up and I never suggest surrendering or any of that. But I just don't care if I lose, because that mode is meaningless other than as a practice mode with real humans**
** Mostly
If you want serious play, get to 30, buy 10 heroes, and jump into Hero League.
The thing is, I'm not terrible at the game by scrub standards, and I find HL stressful as fuck.
The player rage starts as early as the character select screen. It's like you either play with 3-5 friends to offset the random assholes or you just turn the allied chat off - which doesn't really help tactical play anyway.
So then I play QM and find myself getting frustrated with the inconsistency of it, people that are afk right from the start, people that don't want to coordinate, it's just a mess.
Morblitz on
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Please shoot me a PM if you add me so I know to add you back.
Just realized Mecha Tassadar isn't the full 50% off most items are for the weekly sale. Well, guess I'm not grabbing that.
I knew that Mecha was on sale this week, but never saw how much... what's it at pricewise? (At work behind walls atm)
11.25, so think it's only 25% off.
Pfffffffft... I scoff at your pricing blizzard... Pay more than a tenner for a skin? This is not a sale worth the name. I bid thee good day.
I'm not really sure what their goal is there. I'm pretty sure 11 dollars for a skin is still outside the impulse buy range for a lot of people and presumably they've netted almost everyone who's willing to pay over ten bucks for it. I mean, I think I've seen each legendary skin in a match once my entire time playing HotS, but maybe that's just luck.
Kind of hilarious because I was planning on grabbing it at 7.50 despite not being super huge on the skin just for the awesome mount and then possibly grabbing Kaiju Diablo to go with it, but now I'm not gonna get either.
That's the funny part tho, right? I was thinking yeah, I can spend ten bucks on two skins... I know I don't play tass as much, but it's a really sweet skin and I'd probably play him more with it.. and I already like Dibbles, so Kaiju dibbles would be an easy pick for less than a fancy coffee.... yeah... I can totally spend $10.
But spending $14.. man fuck that, who do they think I am? Captain money bags!?
...kinda silly how the impulse buys work....
Still gettin' that kaiju dibbles tho... big ol t-rex lookin mofo tossing people around.
I have a problem spending more on a skin than any hero in the game costs.
Understandable, really. A lot don't. It's how F2P works. I'm a minor whale, and I'm okay with it. Any game that takes huge chunks of my time that I enjoy deserves the money I give it.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I have a problem spending more on a skin than any hero in the game costs.
Understandable, really. A lot don't. It's how F2P works. I'm a minor whale, and I'm okay with it. Any game that takes huge chunks of my time that I enjoy deserves the money I give it.
The technical term for 'minor whale' is 'dolphin'.
I have a problem spending more on a skin than any hero in the game costs.
Understandable, really. A lot don't. It's how F2P works. I'm a minor whale, and I'm okay with it. Any game that takes huge chunks of my time that I enjoy deserves the money I give it.
The technical term for 'minor whale' is 'dolphin'.
I played a game this weekend with some friends of mine. Looking for maybe some advice on how to handle the composition that we went against. We got rolled hard, and we couldn't really ever figure out what to do. It was a full 5 premade against another 5 premade.
The map was Sky Temple.
My team was: Muradin, Uther (me), Sylvanas, Jaina, and Zagara.
Enemy team was: Stitches, Leoric, Abathur, Malfurion, Valla
So the way the enemy team was playing post level 10 was that Abathur was hatting Stitches or Leoric. He was their primary source of damage. Valla went full AA build, and while her damage was significant, Abathur had highest Hero damage contribution for the match.
We couldn't get through their front line, and the DPS on my team couldn't figure out who to shoot. Valla was the obvious choice since she's squishy and generally easy to kill. But even with our range advantage, we couldn't get to her. If we moved to get into range, Stitches would just hook us back out of range. Also, she just vaulted out of range anytime we shot at her.
The important target was whoever Abathur was hatting, but since he was hatting 2 tanks, neither was a preferred target.
I was the healer, so it wasn't really my job to get the DPS on anyone. I was just frantically trying to keep everyone alive.
Did we just draft a bad team to fight a heavy front-line melee composition? Or is there a way to effectively counter this with the team we drafted?
You have a fantastic team for a heavy melee frontline composition. You have two of the best ranged dos in the game, plus Sylvanas to back you up.
I think to be honest it sounds like you fell for a very common fallacy - 'don't focus the tanks!'. I hear it all the time in matches, and whilst sometimes it's true a lot of the time it's completely the opposite of what you should be doing. Your comp can burn Stitches and Leoric *to the ground*. Stitches is a better priority, but whichever one comes forward should be hit with mutualises, both stuns and Jainas blizzard which will kill them. Zagara in participator is a fantastic tank killer - mutualises do very high, sustained damage which tanks cannot get rid of, and her extended range means she's always pinging them from safety.
Save Maw for Malfurion when he pops Tranq - it's one of the few things in the game that cancels it out, and that's a far better use than trying some fiddly split destruction in an uncoordinated game most of the time.
Edit: the other thing is, you are the poke composition in that match up. Someone always is - you win any sustained fight at range. Going after Valla is exactly what they want you do to because you have to go close in, whereas if you stay back and use ranged they have 1.5 heroes versus your 3 - and your three are better straight up anyways. Don't force the fight, force them to come into range of you.
Just realized Mecha Tassadar isn't the full 50% off most items are for the weekly sale. Well, guess I'm not grabbing that.
I knew that Mecha was on sale this week, but never saw how much... what's it at pricewise? (At work behind walls atm)
11.25, so think it's only 25% off.
Pfffffffft... I scoff at your pricing blizzard... Pay more than a tenner for a skin? This is not a sale worth the name. I bid thee good day.
I'm not really sure what their goal is there. I'm pretty sure 11 dollars for a skin is still outside the impulse buy range for a lot of people and presumably they've netted almost everyone who's willing to pay over ten bucks for it. I mean, I think I've seen each legendary skin in a match once my entire time playing HotS, but maybe that's just luck.
Kind of hilarious because I was planning on grabbing it at 7.50 despite not being super huge on the skin just for the awesome mount and then possibly grabbing Kaiju Diablo to go with it, but now I'm not gonna get either.
I see Tassadar's Jet-Robot skin all the time. I'm thinking it sells just fine. Which is why it's still stupid expensive.
I started messing around with nydus worm and its not as bad as I thought. Aside from its intended use its great for blocking. You get 2 charges and it casts instantly. Also the old ones never expire.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I have got to get better with my fundamentals in this damn game. I am ABA right now, and I need to SBD
*Always Be Aggressive
*Sometimes Be Defensive
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Played around 15 games over the past 2 days, many of them solo Q. None of them were with teams that outright sucked, so I think by playing with you guys I've gotten my MMR high enough that I'm not playing with uncoordinated idiots. Holy cow what a difference that makes.
Thanks to I think it was @Teriferin for cluing me in that Sonya can solo boss with Superiority. Holy cow that's neat. I also experimented with spell shield and ignore pain, and I think in certain matches that's the way to go. When your enemy relies heavily on burst damage it's great to just soak it and then wail on them.
I also clicked with Zeratul yesterday. Man, that's some fun I gotta say. He rocks on spider queen. I had zero deaths one game and many takedowns. :-)
I think I tend to play more conservatively than lots of other folks. I've often had the least deaths, but it's meaning that I don't have the highest contribution #s. They're perfectly respectable, though.
Due to a bunch of losses in party of 5 teams in HL my MMR there is in the crapper. I think I'll give it a shot anyway and see what happens.
I started messing around with nydus worm and its not as bad as I thought. Aside from its intended use its great for blocking. You get 2 charges and it casts instantly. Also the old ones never expire.
It also has global range (as long as you have vision)!
Posts
The map was Sky Temple.
My team was: Muradin, Uther (me), Sylvanas, Jaina, and Zagara.
Enemy team was: Stitches, Leoric, Abathur, Malfurion, Valla
So the way the enemy team was playing post level 10 was that Abathur was hatting Stitches or Leoric. He was their primary source of damage. Valla went full AA build, and while her damage was significant, Abathur had highest Hero damage contribution for the match.
We couldn't get through their front line, and the DPS on my team couldn't figure out who to shoot. Valla was the obvious choice since she's squishy and generally easy to kill. But even with our range advantage, we couldn't get to her. If we moved to get into range, Stitches would just hook us back out of range. Also, she just vaulted out of range anytime we shot at her.
The important target was whoever Abathur was hatting, but since he was hatting 2 tanks, neither was a preferred target.
I was the healer, so it wasn't really my job to get the DPS on anyone. I was just frantically trying to keep everyone alive.
Did we just draft a bad team to fight a heavy front-line melee composition? Or is there a way to effectively counter this with the team we drafted?
There's a few things you could've done.
Zagara should've been aiming to get huge Maws (3+ people, at the very least 2) leading into Jaina combo and Sylvanas Wailing Arrow. That alone, in theory, would win you teamfights.
If they were keen to the whole Maw thing (and thus splitting off), Sylvanas should've been initiating with Wailing Arrow and everyone else going in after that. Jaina Combo, Divine Storm (doesn't seem like a good game for Divine Shield imo), all that jazz.
Muradin and Uther should've been working together to coordinate their stuns on a priority target (Valla). Muradin's very mobile, he'd be able to Dwarf Toss in, Thunderclap, hopefully bait out the Vault, then Stormbolt. Uther follows up with Hammer, then Divine Storm. If not Valla, then Malf. Lock out their healing and they're fucked.
Alternatively, it sounds like Stitches was the real thorn in your sides, so focusing him might not have been a bad idea? From what it sounds like, the Stitches was easily able to get hooks off, which means you were probably not grouping that well?
Regardless, your team comp definitely seemed equipped to handle theirs, or at the very least pick off one or two people and thus giving a teamfight advantage.
If you have a hotslogs link, mind posting that? I'd like to look over talents and such.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
I'd love to know what kind of voodoo you're pulling to get good QM games, cause mine always play out like so:
Support- Never healing anyone, clueless
Warrior- Never frontlining/engaging/peeling, clueless
Assassins- Either splitting damage across the entire enemy team (i.e. not focusing damage) or waddling around in circles like scared little babbies.
Regardless, yeah. Assassins without a doubt have the highest impact out of any role. I'd say Support have the lowest? Whenever I play Support our Assassins split damage like crazy and have no coordination. Aaaand Warriors are probably somewhere in the middle. I wouldn't say Warriors do only one thing. They're there to protect the backline, which means bullying away the enemy team and being a general barricade, as well as CCing.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Before they ruined everything by getting rid of the 'healing done' tab for Abathur (who has healing AND mitigation abilities/talents) I had a game where I topped literally every category for the game.
The reason support are more useful is they do not just heal up people in teamfights. They sustain you out of them. If your team isn't teamfighting at least you can keep them healed up to do whatever else they are doing. Makes them less likely to be ganked.
If your team fails engagements, it means they are unprotectable. Likely you are dieing first (as the warrior) and then they either just leave or THEN engage when you are dead. You cannot protect an assassin that does not engage. Nor can you when you are the first to die because you are doing your job. Also, if assassins are splitting damage they are still DOING damage and as a good support you just keep them alive. Eventually something either has to die or disengage and weather its dead or not fighting your job becomes easier because less damage.
My QMs aren't always good. But typically if my side is doing bad things so is the other side. I rarely get ones where I have a complete braindead team and the other one is playing their A game. The only lopsided games I have are when one team comp is just trash and the other is near meta.
However of all the roles I play the most drastic difference in enjoyment is on warriors. On a good game I feel like I am the driving force of a great engagement. On a bad game I feel like there is NOTHING I can do to change it. I never feel that way on support.
I've lost games as the other team in this kind of matchup.
If your team can't convert those kills into a push against the other team's immortal, it doesn't really accomplish much other then weakening you for when they respawn.
Yes.
That double warrior comp though is pretty tough. They just bully their way into your face and keep you from moving in to target their squishies.
I'm no pro but since they had malf, burst healing is weak so maybe Jaina / Zag could focus down one of their tanks and then disengage for cooldowns (just step back a bit) and repeat?
Stitches and Leoric are tough to kill, more so with Aba as a hat.
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wra
Yeah, you also could've had Zagara use Maw on the tanks. Disable them, unrestrained access to their backline, albeit a somewhat short window.
Double tank comps are pretty nasty to go up against, they're just giant bullies and they tend to control engagements pretty well.
Buuuut, they had Leoric/Stitches, which means although their able to just waltz right into your team, they didn't really have much in the way of CC or lockdown.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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Symbiote ends. Same with Void Prison, etc.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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Anything that removes them from play ends the hat, like Gorge, Maw, etc. Anything that merely stuns them will allow it to persist.
If you get stunned, hats end, but that only applies to Apocalypse, pretty much.
if it makes you feel any better, the big list of "characters that have stuff in the game" is populated with a bunch of characters that have been abandoned :P
I've been down 8 levels before.
Don't ask me how, I have no idea how it got to that point.
Uncoordinated teams, keep splitting off into 1's and 2's, leaving me as a Falstad to defend our base while our Leoric and Sylvanas get bruisers. This was a 5 man and we were on voice coms too, so I dunno.
Yeah, this is pretty common knowledge; five man queues tend towards stomps, because it's usually five people of similar skill level queuing together, and it's not like two groups of 5 of the same skill level are going to queue at the same time.
I'm not really sure what their goal is there. I'm pretty sure 11 dollars for a skin is still outside the impulse buy range for a lot of people and presumably they've netted almost everyone who's willing to pay over ten bucks for it. I mean, I think I've seen each legendary skin in a match once my entire time playing HotS, but maybe that's just luck.
Kind of hilarious because I was planning on grabbing it at 7.50 despite not being super huge on the skin just for the awesome mount and then possibly grabbing Kaiju Diablo to go with it, but now I'm not gonna get either.
They need to fix that because it is just unfun. I don't mind a bit of a longer wait if it means I get to play an actual game.
If you want to get an even 5-stack match I wouldn't be surprised if it was like, 10-20 minutes of waiting on that. Blizzard is clear they don't want to go up that high like the other MOBA's do.
Unfortunately, for them Quick Match is a playground for testing builds, getting as many matches as possible, and raising hero/account levels. It is not intended for serious play. That's how I personally treat it, because that's how Blizzard has defined it. I don't give one flying fuck about my MMR in QM, or really even whether I win or lose. Yes, I always play to win. It's not a matter of not trying. I always try, and I never give up and I never suggest surrendering or any of that. But I just don't care if I lose, because that mode is meaningless other than as a practice mode with real humans**
** Mostly
If you want serious play, get to 30, buy 10 heroes, and jump into Hero League.
The player rage starts as early as the character select screen. It's like you either play with 3-5 friends to offset the random assholes or you just turn the allied chat off - which doesn't really help tactical play anyway.
So then I play QM and find myself getting frustrated with the inconsistency of it, people that are afk right from the start, people that don't want to coordinate, it's just a mess.
Please shoot me a PM if you add me so I know to add you back.
That's the funny part tho, right? I was thinking yeah, I can spend ten bucks on two skins... I know I don't play tass as much, but it's a really sweet skin and I'd probably play him more with it.. and I already like Dibbles, so Kaiju dibbles would be an easy pick for less than a fancy coffee.... yeah... I can totally spend $10.
But spending $14.. man fuck that, who do they think I am? Captain money bags!?
...kinda silly how the impulse buys work....
Still gettin' that kaiju dibbles tho... big ol t-rex lookin mofo tossing people around.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Understandable, really. A lot don't. It's how F2P works. I'm a minor whale, and I'm okay with it. Any game that takes huge chunks of my time that I enjoy deserves the money I give it.
The technical term for 'minor whale' is 'dolphin'.
I'm so okay with this.
You have a fantastic team for a heavy melee frontline composition. You have two of the best ranged dos in the game, plus Sylvanas to back you up.
I think to be honest it sounds like you fell for a very common fallacy - 'don't focus the tanks!'. I hear it all the time in matches, and whilst sometimes it's true a lot of the time it's completely the opposite of what you should be doing. Your comp can burn Stitches and Leoric *to the ground*. Stitches is a better priority, but whichever one comes forward should be hit with mutualises, both stuns and Jainas blizzard which will kill them. Zagara in participator is a fantastic tank killer - mutualises do very high, sustained damage which tanks cannot get rid of, and her extended range means she's always pinging them from safety.
Save Maw for Malfurion when he pops Tranq - it's one of the few things in the game that cancels it out, and that's a far better use than trying some fiddly split destruction in an uncoordinated game most of the time.
Edit: the other thing is, you are the poke composition in that match up. Someone always is - you win any sustained fight at range. Going after Valla is exactly what they want you do to because you have to go close in, whereas if you stay back and use ranged they have 1.5 heroes versus your 3 - and your three are better straight up anyways. Don't force the fight, force them to come into range of you.
I see Tassadar's Jet-Robot skin all the time. I'm thinking it sells just fine. Which is why it's still stupid expensive.
*Always Be Aggressive
*Sometimes Be Defensive
It's just that maw is phenomenal
Thanks to I think it was @Teriferin for cluing me in that Sonya can solo boss with Superiority. Holy cow that's neat. I also experimented with spell shield and ignore pain, and I think in certain matches that's the way to go. When your enemy relies heavily on burst damage it's great to just soak it and then wail on them.
I also clicked with Zeratul yesterday. Man, that's some fun I gotta say. He rocks on spider queen. I had zero deaths one game and many takedowns. :-)
I think I tend to play more conservatively than lots of other folks. I've often had the least deaths, but it's meaning that I don't have the highest contribution #s. They're perfectly respectable, though.
Due to a bunch of losses in party of 5 teams in HL my MMR there is in the crapper. I think I'll give it a shot anyway and see what happens.
Switch: 6589-6405-3399
It also has global range (as long as you have vision)!