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[Marvel MCU] thread wrapped up tight in some kinda web...
Dark Raven X
Laugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered User regular
Laugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered User regular
MAHVEL MAKES THINGS AND I LIKE THEM
Here's what our futures look like;
LUKE CAGE! This impossibly beautiful unbreakable hero for hire will be available to watch on Netflix September 30th!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytkjQvSk2VA
Vrrm VRRRRRM
Agents of SHIELD gets spicy with Ghost Rider, but not that Ghost Rider, a different one I guess. September 20th!
But maybe you like your superheroes on a bigger screen, no prob.
Doctor Strange is going to appear on multiple screens at once, due to being set in several dimensions. In one of those dimensions, I thought of a funnier pun or something to put here. November 4th!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSzx-zryEgM
And then laaaater
is sleepytimes and y'all ate the last thread too quick!
Here's what our futures look like;
LUKE CAGE! This impossibly beautiful unbreakable hero for hire will be available to watch on Netflix September 30th!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytkjQvSk2VAVrrm VRRRRRM
Agents of SHIELD gets spicy with Ghost Rider, but not that Ghost Rider, a different one I guess. September 20th!
But maybe you like your superheroes on a bigger screen, no prob.
Doctor Strange is going to appear on multiple screens at once, due to being set in several dimensions. In one of those dimensions, I thought of a funnier pun or something to put here. November 4th!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSzx-zryEgMAnd then laaaater
is sleepytimes and y'all ate the last thread too quick!
Oh brilliant
Dark Raven X on
+5
Posts
So you're saying that you CAN dig it?
For their own shit? Probably. Their licence deals will include streaming from the get-go by design, so it won't be an inconvenient price-hike like licensing an existing show would be.
Besides, each Luke Cage episode is apparently named after a Gang Star song. I am old and do not know what significance this holds, but the youngs inform me that it is neat, and totally a real thing. So the likelihood of soundtrack is high.
Elfman's Spider-Man theme bugs me because there are hints of Elfman's Batman theme in it that I noticed the first time I heard it and I can't not hear them now.
That kind of music comes around EXTREMELY rarely and it just plays in a different league than standard soundtracks.
Its a silly silly argument.
Marvel has attempted (and thus far pulled off) the hardest trick any movie studio has ever attempted. Creating an entire universe of linked movies that arent small indy films, but huge big budget block busters AND link that to ground breaking Netflix series, AND link that to a TV show and have it all make sense. With stars from one movie appearing in other movies that appear in other movies and it all building to a head more than a decade later.
So i can forgive them that they didn't sink a lot of time into building super memorable theme songs. The sound tracks are mostly decent solid songs (GotG is the exception) that serve the purpose while watching the movie.
What MCU DOES do is give us memorable moments of film. Phrases and situations and scenes that we'll all remember and quote.
The new Star Trek movies managed a pretty great main theme, though.
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And saying that a certain aspect of a film or a series of films serves the purpose and is good enough and therefore not worthy of critical discussion is silly. It's the slightly more attractive sibling of:
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
No, it's like expecting a major studio in charge of one of the largest and culturally significant movie franchises to put a bit more effort in to one particular aspect of that franchise.
Wait it's not like that, it is that.
Comparing them to the all time greats like Star Wars, Indiana Jones, BTTF, Superman etc is silly. Those are far far far away from normal and not even in the realm of what you can reasonably expect from a sound track. Its like asking why every basketball player isn't Michael Jordan.
If any one expects sound tracks to regularly be like those they are really setting themselves up for disappointment.
"Avengers: Infinity War. It serves its purpose. Two thumbs up."
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Pacific Rim, one movie, an iconic theme already. Pirates of the Caravan, 4 movies, one unifying theme. Wonder Woman is in BvS, even if you don't like the music she's got an instantly recognizable theme now.
Take the Star Trek music from the rebooted movies. Not as iconic as Jaws or Jurassic Park, but still impressive and memorable and you might able to call it to mind. I can't do that with a single Marvel movie, and I've seen them all, often more than once. I can half-remember the Avengers theme, but that's it. I can, however, remember the X-Men theme tune.
Or take Tim Burton's Batman. It's a pretty great Danny Elfman theme tune (and a fantastic soundtrack by Prince). Not as ear-catchingly iconic as, say Superman, but still recognisable and memorable in a way no Marvel movie music is. Take the opening music to The Thing, a barely there thrum of disquieting dread that isn't on everyone's lips but is most definitely memorable in a way that somehow no Marvel movie music is. Take any number of movie soundtracks over the years that manage to do more than somehow instantly disappear from your memory the second the movie is over.
That somehow probably has something to do with temp tracks and a more widespread attitude towards film music in general from people in charge.
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The Avengers theme I half remembered and listened to just kind of lies there limply saying 'will this do'? It's not bad, but it's not good either.
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I think the Avengers song is memorable (humming it right now) but i also get that as a whole, there isn't a lot of memorable themes in the MCU, i think that's ok and not really a detraction from the quality of the movies at all. Guardians aside, none of the MCU movies have really attempted to make it a focal point, and what IS there works just fine to move the film and evoke emotions needed at any given time. It clearly isn't where MCU put their money AND THAT'S OK.
Because they DID put time and effort in to legendary CASTING instead (which i'd argue is more important for the thing they're trying to do). So given that you cannot allocate all funds and energy to all things i find the efforts of theme songs in the MCU to be perfectly serviceable and fine for what they do. None of them take away form the movies (in my opinion) so they do the job they need to do. And thats fine, because its clear to me that Marvel spent that time and money on other things.
EDIT: Of note, the GotG soundtrack is amazing, but its all previously written music, so I dont count the "quality" in my argument exactly, since picking good music and writing good music from scratch are two totally different things.
And your point concerning resources is a weird one: how much do the MCU films cost? Do you honestly think that they have mediocre music because of a lack of resources? How large a part of the overall budget do you think goes to the composer?
I agree with you, but I also have to admit that half the time when I start to hum the dwarven song in my head, it ends up as Michael Jackson's "Beat It".
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Nova Corps even got their own little cue that made for a cool moment when they showed up at the end.
Well, it depends on the MCU film, but it looks like any where form $140 million to $250 million per film. And, as i said considering the casting (especially in a film like Avengers, or Civil War) i would say the bulk of the $$ goes to cast, effects (stunts/cgi), sets, costuming, and then stuff like music rights etc etc in that (probable) order.
Marketing aside since that doesn't have any impact on production quality. So, yes, i'd argue that they dont have the money for a Williams sound track. I'm sure they'd love to have one, but that isn't the focus.
Not to mention music rights and royalties to X amount of composers over what, 20 movies and characters all popping in and out of various different films.....the legal rights stuff would be a nightmare i'd think.
Anyway, I don't think we'll come to any common ground here, but I still find your basic argument puzzling, because it seems to boil down to this: if a film has no ambition in a particular regard, it's silly to criticise it for this lack of ambition. And this does translate into mediocrity. We're not asking Annie Hall to have better action scenes or Die Hard to feature more Bergmanesque characterisation and symbolism. We're saying that a series of films that throws hundreds of millions of dollars at the screen and does really well in certain respects but quite clearly doesn't measure up in other respects could do better and would be improved if it did.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
The guy who composed Pacific Rim also composed Iron Man 1.
I'm not content with maintaining continuously low expectations for all time.
I think as, or perhaps more, important than the specific music is the actual incorporation of the music into the movie. Avengers (and most of the Marvel movies) seem to have their soundtracks running as ambient noise while stuff happens, dialogue occurs, and things explode. Contrast that to Fury Road, where there are sections where the soundtrack comes to the fore for long periods of time.
The other bit is the synchronization of the soundtrack to the actions in the movie. Bloodbag in Fury Road has the drumbeat going along and getting louder as you pan past the Doof Wagon, and then as Doof comes into view you get the guitar really kicking in. And flames. Empire Strikes Back has the best example (IMO), with The Asteroid Field having flourishes and whatnots that synch with the flight of both the Falcon and the TIEs. Then you've got a previously mentioned Star Lord dancing to Come and Get Your Love (or O-o-h Child, your choice).
Because the argument doesn't seem to be that they are bad, just that they aren't great.
What they are, is serviceable in the task they set out to do. Which is fine, because the MCU so clearly excels at other things. And because the MCU isn't just ONE movie, or even ONE "franchise" of characters. Its dozens spread across 20 some odd movies all with varying sequels and main themes, all wrapping into one story and one shared universe. I give the "sound track" a pass on simply being serviceable BECAUSE the thing the MCU is trying to do is so extrordinary and unprecedented. They clearly focused on other things and thats ok to me. Because none of the soundtracks are bad, none of them make the movies worse and that is ok.
As bits of music, lots of them are very well composed, and they do an admirable job of filling the void where needed. The music itself is fine. If the argument is that they just aren't super memorable then it just doesn't seem like much of an argument to me. The sound tracks job is not to inherently be memorable (in a hummable sense). Its to serve the film thematically.
*The Avengers theme being a different thing, as a memorable theme there DOES serve a purpose. Of course, i'd advocate that the Avengers theme is the most memorable so....*
Anyway, its like building a character in an RPG. There is only so many points you can award to different attributes. You cant max out every stat. (given a limited time/budget etc) Some movie go for an "all around build" and nail everything pretty well. MCU dumped massive points into casting and concept and then filled out everything else as they could. Music took the short straw on the stat list and that's perfectly ok to me*.
Not even Star Wars has been as ambitious in its reach of universe building movie wise. Nothing ever has. So when blazing new trails its ok to not get everything perfect.
Edit: *perfectly ok to me because none of the sound tracks are bad. they just aren't earth shattering-ly great. If they were bad, i could see the argument.
And I don't really get the money argument when it comes to something like the temp score being more or less copied for the final score. They still have to pay the composer.
Pretty much.
If they want to set out to be mildly above average then that's their choice. It doesn't change that they could be better and many people would like them to be.
Iron Man; Shoot to Thrill
Thor; Thunderstruck
Hawkeye; Big Balls
Black Widow; Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
On to other things: Anyone know when SHIELD comes back?
is in the OP! September 20th. ;D
DOH! so it is. lol
I will say that Shoot to Thrill does make me think of Iron Man. I always go back to the opening of 2 or his arrival in the Avengers
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche