For those who don't know, the US has a summer student visa called a J1. This Visa is open in very controlled numbers to full time college students over the age of 18 studying in a very controlled list of countries. Ireland is one of the countries on the list. College students here can apply for the visa and, if successful, spend a summer working and traveling around the US. You can repeat apply if you can afford to, and spend as many summers as you're in college doing this. (The application is expensive and requires a boatload of paperwork, and you have to have a minimum amount in your bank account to enter the country to prove you can support yourself, so most people only apply for the J1 once.)
That's what it's for? There was a scandal back in the Obama administration when students on J1 visas were forced to work in Hershey's Chocolate factories packing candy for the equivalent of $40 a week (after their gap year company deducted housing and food costs, of course). There was also some bullshit with young people who had to sleep in a McDonalds franchise owner's basement and were forced to work in his McDonalds.
I don't like work visas. There's far, far too much potential for abuse. Just the thought of those kids coming here all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to see my native land and then getting forced to work in fucking 1800s conditions or be deported makes me see red.
I don't like work visas. There's far, far too much potential for abuse. Just the thought of those kids coming here all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to see my native land and then getting forced to work in fucking 1800s conditions or be deported makes me see red.
This is not a reason to dislike visas, this is a reason to dislike our (lack of) enforcement regime. Realize that in your bad scenario it isn't the immigrant who has failed to live up to their promise to us. It is us who have failed to live up to our promise to them.
For those who don't know, the US has a summer student visa called a J1. This Visa is open in very controlled numbers to full time college students over the age of 18 studying in a very controlled list of countries. Ireland is one of the countries on the list. College students here can apply for the visa and, if successful, spend a summer working and traveling around the US. You can repeat apply if you can afford to, and spend as many summers as you're in college doing this. (The application is expensive and requires a boatload of paperwork, and you have to have a minimum amount in your bank account to enter the country to prove you can support yourself, so most people only apply for the J1 once.)
That's what it's for? There was a scandal back in the Obama administration when students on J1 visas were forced to work in Hershey's Chocolate factories packing candy for the equivalent of $40 a week (after their gap year company deducted housing and food costs, of course). There was also some bullshit with young people who had to sleep in a McDonalds franchise owner's basement and were forced to work in his McDonalds.
I don't like work visas. There's far, far too much potential for abuse. Just the thought of those kids coming here all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to see my native land and then getting forced to work in fucking 1800s conditions or be deported makes me see red.
So in your book, how the fuck do immigrants ever enter the country?
Work visas are like the only long term visas we have because, big surprise, if you're going to stay here a while, you'll likely need to fuckin work.
Work visas are like the first step towards immigration and citizenship.
Without visas, that allow the visa holder to work, how the fuck do you expect anyone to ever immigrate?
For those who don't know, the US has a summer student visa called a J1. This Visa is open in very controlled numbers to full time college students over the age of 18 studying in a very controlled list of countries. Ireland is one of the countries on the list. College students here can apply for the visa and, if successful, spend a summer working and traveling around the US. You can repeat apply if you can afford to, and spend as many summers as you're in college doing this. (The application is expensive and requires a boatload of paperwork, and you have to have a minimum amount in your bank account to enter the country to prove you can support yourself, so most people only apply for the J1 once.)
That's what it's for? There was a scandal back in the Obama administration when students on J1 visas were forced to work in Hershey's Chocolate factories packing candy for the equivalent of $40 a week (after their gap year company deducted housing and food costs, of course). There was also some bullshit with young people who had to sleep in a McDonalds franchise owner's basement and were forced to work in his McDonalds.
I don't like work visas. There's far, far too much potential for abuse. Just the thought of those kids coming here all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to see my native land and then getting forced to work in fucking 1800s conditions or be deported makes me see red.
So in your book, how the fuck do immigrants ever enter the country?
Work visas are like the only long term visas we have because, big surprise, if you're going to stay here a while, you'll likely need to fuckin work.
Work visas are like the first step towards immigration and citizenship.
Without visas, that allow the visa holder to work, how the fuck do you expect anyone to ever immigrate?
The potential for abuse comes from the fact that the US is a worker-unfriendly country with policies that lead directly to exploitation.
I know multiple people who went on work visas to Australia and made significantly more than they could in the US. Higher cost of living, but waaaaay more than balanced out. Like, waiting tables came with a better salary/benefits package than any job I got before I got my Masters.
Work visas will lead to worker exploitation because we have weak to zero unionization and an aggressive policy of treating workers as disposable pieces that we unfortunately require briefly before we can expel them.
It's incredibly silly to focus on the work visas as the ultimate in worker-unfriendly policies in a country that's absolutely delighted to kill people in order to produce one more can of Spam this week. It's especially ridiculous to suggest that the real best policy to improve the lives of workers is to eliminate the possibility of anyone immigrating to the US who is not independently wealthy and able to absorb 5-10 years of not working.
We need to improve conditions for workers on visas because it is one element of the fight to improve conditions for all workers. We don't need to kick out all our recent PhDs.
Presumably the Trumpkins have decided that it would be a CUNNING PLAN if at the end of the month they can explain that actually immigration hasn't even decreased, look we've got just as many immigrants as before!
The need to have a set bank balance and resulting expectation that they can pay their way if need be makes me think they might believe that it brings more money in than it sends out, so why not allow for more of them?
But that's just a gut reaction. Whenever something adjacent to money comes into view, I assume Trump is laser focused on that money.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Well here's a fascinating little immigration story that broke in Ireland today.
For those who don't know, the US has a summer student visa called a J1. This Visa is open in very controlled numbers to full time college students over the age of 18 studying in a very controlled list of countries. Ireland is one of the countries on the list. College students here can apply for the visa and, if successful, spend a summer working and traveling around the US. You can repeat apply if you can afford to, and spend as many summers as you're in college doing this. (The application is expensive and requires a boatload of paperwork, and you have to have a minimum amount in your bank account to enter the country to prove you can support yourself, so most people only apply for the J1 once.)
Keep that in mind. This visa specifically allows students in Ireland to travel to the US and work for a couple of months.
Now have a gander at this video from RTE News, Ireland's state broadcaster.
That's right, Ireland has been allocated an extra TWO THOUSAND SIX HUNRED of these visas.
Apparently immigrants coming to the US and taking jobs is only a problem if you're coming from Mexico or South America.
the J1 visa actually applies to all international students and researchers. I'm on a J1, as a faculty member. It is a "visiting scholar" visa.
my colleagues and I are very, very nervous about the White House finding out J1s exist.
They know it exists. Trump already pledged to scrap it and replace it with an inner city youth employment program, which is why everyone here is slightly confused that it's been expanded for us instead.
Well, they didn't say it would be US inner cities, did they?
For those who don't know, the US has a summer student visa called a J1. This Visa is open in very controlled numbers to full time college students over the age of 18 studying in a very controlled list of countries. Ireland is one of the countries on the list. College students here can apply for the visa and, if successful, spend a summer working and traveling around the US. You can repeat apply if you can afford to, and spend as many summers as you're in college doing this. (The application is expensive and requires a boatload of paperwork, and you have to have a minimum amount in your bank account to enter the country to prove you can support yourself, so most people only apply for the J1 once.)
That's what it's for? There was a scandal back in the Obama administration when students on J1 visas were forced to work in Hershey's Chocolate factories packing candy for the equivalent of $40 a week (after their gap year company deducted housing and food costs, of course). There was also some bullshit with young people who had to sleep in a McDonalds franchise owner's basement and were forced to work in his McDonalds.
I don't like work visas. There's far, far too much potential for abuse. Just the thought of those kids coming here all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to see my native land and then getting forced to work in fucking 1800s conditions or be deported makes me see red.
Don't see why. It doesn't sound too different from unpaid internships. Hay-oh!
ICE Agents Arrest Men Leaving Alexandria Church Shelter
Some are questioning the way Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials are handling arrests in Fairfax County after at least two men were arrested near a church shelter.
Oscar Ramirez said he had just left the hypothermia shelter at Rising Hope Mission Church on Russell Road in Alexandria, Virginia, when about a dozen ICE agents surround him and other Latino men.
"They were clearly targeting the church because they knew that they stayed here in the hypothermia shelter. So they were waiting for them to cross the street and then jump on them," said Rising Hope Mission Church Rev. Keary Kincannon.
An ICE spokeswoman said the agency's "sensitive location" policy was followed. The policy requires agents to avoid arresting people at places of worship, schools and medical facilities. The spokeswoman emphasized the arrests took place across the street from the church and not on church property.
That is some of the flimsiest bullshit ever. They are going to get people killed.
For those who don't know, the US has a summer student visa called a J1. This Visa is open in very controlled numbers to full time college students over the age of 18 studying in a very controlled list of countries. Ireland is one of the countries on the list. College students here can apply for the visa and, if successful, spend a summer working and traveling around the US. You can repeat apply if you can afford to, and spend as many summers as you're in college doing this. (The application is expensive and requires a boatload of paperwork, and you have to have a minimum amount in your bank account to enter the country to prove you can support yourself, so most people only apply for the J1 once.)
That's what it's for? There was a scandal back in the Obama administration when students on J1 visas were forced to work in Hershey's Chocolate factories packing candy for the equivalent of $40 a week (after their gap year company deducted housing and food costs, of course). There was also some bullshit with young people who had to sleep in a McDonalds franchise owner's basement and were forced to work in his McDonalds.
I don't like work visas. There's far, far too much potential for abuse. Just the thought of those kids coming here all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to see my native land and then getting forced to work in fucking 1800s conditions or be deported makes me see red.
The J1 Student Visa program has been open for decades in Ireland, and I have never heard a single Irish person who availed of it coming back with horror stories about their awful working conditions while they were there. For a start, Irish teenagers are pretty much as I expect American teenagers are. If you stick them in a sweatshop and tell them "Work 16 hours a day here or we'll deport you!" their reaction would be "Fuck this for a lark, I'm going home, suing you into the ground and coming back on a holiday visa to spend the settlement on a trip to Disneyland!"
The J1 Student Visa is mostly seen as a way of having an extra long holiday in the US, with the added bonus that you can work part time to get the cash you need to travel to all the places you'd love to see while you're there. It's also not that easy to afford, not just with the application fee, cost of travel and grabbing all the documentation you need, but also ensuring you have enough in your bank account to gain entry to the country. Working class kids aren't going to be able to avail of it. Hell, I couldn't afford it while I was in college, and I was a kid of a two income family and had a part time job to support myself. Despite the US throwing a couple of thousand extra of these visas at us this year, there was a dip in applications last year because a new rule was put in that you have to find a job before you travel, and most students wanted to plunge right into traveling and partying, then grab a job when they ran low on cash. There are other countries with similar visas - I know plenty of people who traveled to Australia on a visa that had the double advantage of giving you a much longer period in the country and not requiring you to be a full time student, just to be below the age of 24 I think. I'd have to check.
Ireland, on the other hand, doesn't have a visa like this, nor do the UK I believe. The closest we have is a student visa, which allows you to study full time and work part time in Ireland, with permission to work full time during holidays. This has lead to an entire industry in Ireland and the UK with fake colleges selling access to full time courses people don't have to turn up to and supplying fraudulent paperwork to the authorities on their behalf so they can work here, a situation that causes havok for genuine students coming to Ireland as well as massive headaches for teaching and administrative staff in genuine colleges.
A visa that allowed people to work in Ireland for a year or two would solve the problem, but it doesn't seem like it's going to happen.
The work visas that should be abolished (and I think what Marcus was thinking of) are the ones that require you to have employment to maintain your status. (I think the H1B does this.) So those ones are wide open for abuse because the employer can be all "Do what we say and don't complain or we fire you and get you deported."
J1 doesn't seem to have that problem.
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
For those who don't know, the US has a summer student visa called a J1. This Visa is open in very controlled numbers to full time college students over the age of 18 studying in a very controlled list of countries. Ireland is one of the countries on the list. College students here can apply for the visa and, if successful, spend a summer working and traveling around the US. You can repeat apply if you can afford to, and spend as many summers as you're in college doing this. (The application is expensive and requires a boatload of paperwork, and you have to have a minimum amount in your bank account to enter the country to prove you can support yourself, so most people only apply for the J1 once.)
That's what it's for? There was a scandal back in the Obama administration when students on J1 visas were forced to work in Hershey's Chocolate factories packing candy for the equivalent of $40 a week (after their gap year company deducted housing and food costs, of course). There was also some bullshit with young people who had to sleep in a McDonalds franchise owner's basement and were forced to work in his McDonalds.
I don't like work visas. There's far, far too much potential for abuse. Just the thought of those kids coming here all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to see my native land and then getting forced to work in fucking 1800s conditions or be deported makes me see red.
Don't see why. It doesn't sound too different from unpaid internships. Hay-oh!
It does add some scummyness when the person can't really quit, but yeah there is equally scummy stuff going on all the time with internships for citizens as well. I did a 4 hour a week unpaid "volunteer" undergraduate internship at a hospital for a semester and was pretty shocked. Pretty much got there, was told we would be filing charts and pulling them 4 hours at a time, that they considered volunteering a commitment so we needed to make sure to call ahead if we'd miss times, that excessive absences or quitting would be noted on our record and could affect future employment opportunities there, etc. Basically was a total scam designed to replace minimum wage employees with wannabee nursing and med students desperate to build resumes, and later on in life I knew some admin commitee guys at a med school who basically said they only really consider direct patient care experience anyway, so alot of kids were basically being lied to that working these volunteer internships would help them get into school when it made no real difference and they would be better off just spending time shadowing or taking additional health field courses.
I only really have experience in the health field, but my tech field friends have told me such things are pretty much par for the course there, too.
For those who don't know, the US has a summer student visa called a J1. This Visa is open in very controlled numbers to full time college students over the age of 18 studying in a very controlled list of countries. Ireland is one of the countries on the list. College students here can apply for the visa and, if successful, spend a summer working and traveling around the US. You can repeat apply if you can afford to, and spend as many summers as you're in college doing this. (The application is expensive and requires a boatload of paperwork, and you have to have a minimum amount in your bank account to enter the country to prove you can support yourself, so most people only apply for the J1 once.)
That's what it's for? There was a scandal back in the Obama administration when students on J1 visas were forced to work in Hershey's Chocolate factories packing candy for the equivalent of $40 a week (after their gap year company deducted housing and food costs, of course). There was also some bullshit with young people who had to sleep in a McDonalds franchise owner's basement and were forced to work in his McDonalds.
I don't like work visas. There's far, far too much potential for abuse. Just the thought of those kids coming here all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to see my native land and then getting forced to work in fucking 1800s conditions or be deported makes me see red.
Don't see why. It doesn't sound too different from unpaid internships. Hay-oh!
It does add some scummyness when the person can't really quit, but yeah there is equally scummy stuff going on all the time with internships for citizens as well. I did a 4 hour a week unpaid "volunteer" undergraduate internship at a hospital for a semester and was pretty shocked. Pretty much got there, was told we would be filing charts and pulling them 4 hours at a time, that they considered volunteering a commitment so we needed to make sure to call ahead if we'd miss times, that excessive absences or quitting would be noted on our record and could affect future employment opportunities there, etc. Basically was a total scam designed to replace minimum wage employees with wannabee nursing and med students desperate to build resumes, and later on in life I knew some admin commitee guys at a med school who basically said they only really consider direct patient care experience anyway, so alot of kids were basically being lied to that working these volunteer internships would help them get into school when it made no real difference and they would be better off just spending time shadowing or taking additional health field courses.
I only really have experience in the health field, but my tech field friends have told me such things are pretty much par for the course there, too.
There was an internship scheme set up over here to assist the long term unemployed find work. You got to work in a job and got a whole €50 extra a week added onto your unemployment benefits.
A couple of months into it one company advertised for a senior manager under the scheme.
For those who don't know, the US has a summer student visa called a J1. This Visa is open in very controlled numbers to full time college students over the age of 18 studying in a very controlled list of countries. Ireland is one of the countries on the list. College students here can apply for the visa and, if successful, spend a summer working and traveling around the US. You can repeat apply if you can afford to, and spend as many summers as you're in college doing this. (The application is expensive and requires a boatload of paperwork, and you have to have a minimum amount in your bank account to enter the country to prove you can support yourself, so most people only apply for the J1 once.)
That's what it's for? There was a scandal back in the Obama administration when students on J1 visas were forced to work in Hershey's Chocolate factories packing candy for the equivalent of $40 a week (after their gap year company deducted housing and food costs, of course). There was also some bullshit with young people who had to sleep in a McDonalds franchise owner's basement and were forced to work in his McDonalds.
I don't like work visas. There's far, far too much potential for abuse. Just the thought of those kids coming here all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to see my native land and then getting forced to work in fucking 1800s conditions or be deported makes me see red.
Don't see why. It doesn't sound too different from unpaid internships. Hay-oh!
It does add some scummyness when the person can't really quit, but yeah there is equally scummy stuff going on all the time with internships for citizens as well. I did a 4 hour a week unpaid "volunteer" undergraduate internship at a hospital for a semester and was pretty shocked. Pretty much got there, was told we would be filing charts and pulling them 4 hours at a time, that they considered volunteering a commitment so we needed to make sure to call ahead if we'd miss times, that excessive absences or quitting would be noted on our record and could affect future employment opportunities there, etc. Basically was a total scam designed to replace minimum wage employees with wannabee nursing and med students desperate to build resumes, and later on in life I knew some admin commitee guys at a med school who basically said they only really consider direct patient care experience anyway, so alot of kids were basically being lied to that working these volunteer internships would help them get into school when it made no real difference and they would be better off just spending time shadowing or taking additional health field courses.
I only really have experience in the health field, but my tech field friends have told me such things are pretty much par for the course there, too.
The general merits of unpaid internships are not on-topic for this thread.
ICE Agents Arrest Men Leaving Alexandria Church Shelter
Some are questioning the way Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials are handling arrests in Fairfax County after at least two men were arrested near a church shelter.
Oscar Ramirez said he had just left the hypothermia shelter at Rising Hope Mission Church on Russell Road in Alexandria, Virginia, when about a dozen ICE agents surround him and other Latino men.
"They were clearly targeting the church because they knew that they stayed here in the hypothermia shelter. So they were waiting for them to cross the street and then jump on them," said Rising Hope Mission Church Rev. Keary Kincannon.
An ICE spokeswoman said the agency's "sensitive location" policy was followed. The policy requires agents to avoid arresting people at places of worship, schools and medical facilities. The spokeswoman emphasized the arrests took place across the street from the church and not on church property.
That is some of the flimsiest bullshit ever. They are going to get people killed.
ICE Agents Arrest Men Leaving Alexandria Church Shelter
Some are questioning the way Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials are handling arrests in Fairfax County after at least two men were arrested near a church shelter.
Oscar Ramirez said he had just left the hypothermia shelter at Rising Hope Mission Church on Russell Road in Alexandria, Virginia, when about a dozen ICE agents surround him and other Latino men.
"They were clearly targeting the church because they knew that they stayed here in the hypothermia shelter. So they were waiting for them to cross the street and then jump on them," said Rising Hope Mission Church Rev. Keary Kincannon.
An ICE spokeswoman said the agency's "sensitive location" policy was followed. The policy requires agents to avoid arresting people at places of worship, schools and medical facilities. The spokeswoman emphasized the arrests took place across the street from the church and not on church property.
That is some of the flimsiest bullshit ever. They are going to get people killed.
fuck, this is literally right up the road from the church where my mother led a Salvadorean service every week
Today is the Day Without Immigrants, a strike where workers and students don't show up to work/classes to show how many immigrants make up our daily life and how things would change if they all disappeared. Today I had off away on my schedule, but my boss sent me a text asking me to come in because a lot of people didn't show up.
Today is the Day Without Immigrants, a strike where workers and students don't show up to work/classes to show how many immigrants make up our daily life and how things would change if they all disappeared. Today I had off away on my schedule, but my boss sent me a text asking me to come in because a lot of people didn't show up.
Reminder that tomorrow, Feb 17, is the National General Strike. If you can, take off work, buy absolutely nothing, maybe volunteer or join a protest. Just do your part to stall the economy!
Trump just announced a new executive order on immigration coming next week.
We need an "Awesome!" but in a sarcastic tone of voice button.
Does anyone with better American immigration law knowledge than me have any idea what Trump could do that would squeak past the courts but keep his "I hate immigrants and want them gone" thing going on? I'm assuming he'll at least make an attempt to listen to others on the subject this time. Besides Bannon I mean.
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Captain Marcusnow arrives the hour of actionRegistered Userregular
Don't see why. It doesn't sound too different from unpaid internships. Hay-oh!
Zython, you've got me confused with someone else. I hate unpaid internships just as much as the next guy.
And yeah, better oversight of work visas would be nice, but if we couldn't get that during a Democratic administration we're probably not going to get that from Trump. We might though, he's said some stuff about cracking down on abuse.
Trump just announced a new executive order on immigration coming next week.
We need an "Awesome!" but in a sarcastic tone of voice button.
Does anyone with better American immigration law knowledge than me have any idea what Trump could do that would squeak past the courts but keep his "I hate immigrants and want them gone" thing going on? I'm assuming he'll at least make an attempt to listen to others on the subject this time. Besides Bannon I mean.
At a minimum, he would probably have to drop the explicit list of countries & religious test (as these are outright precluded by both the constitution and existing law). He'd also have to somehow reign himself in from repeatedly declaring the EO to be a Muslim ban. If it is still challenged in court (and I imagine it will be), he will have to somehow defend the premise that lies as the foundation of these EOs - that somehow they keep the country safe.
Don't see why. It doesn't sound too different from unpaid internships. Hay-oh!
Zython, you've got me confused with someone else. I hate unpaid internships just as much as the next guy.
And yeah, better oversight of work visas would be nice, but if we couldn't get that during a Democratic administration we're probably not going to get that from Trump. We might though, he's said some stuff about cracking down on abuse.
I'm not sure Trump's definition of abuse is a sane one. Remember this is the man who's idea of bringing jobs back to the US involved "you all make too much money." Cracking down on "abuse" would probably end up with an EO about visa holders not being able to talk B's k or they get deported.
Trump just announced a new executive order on immigration coming next week.
We need an "Awesome!" but in a sarcastic tone of voice button.
Does anyone with better American immigration law knowledge than me have any idea what Trump could do that would squeak past the courts but keep his "I hate immigrants and want them gone" thing going on? I'm assuming he'll at least make an attempt to listen to others on the subject this time. Besides Bannon I mean.
If he words it right, it'll still get shot down in the circuits most likely because there is far too much evidence that he's trying to make it a muslim ban. SCOTUS w/ Gorsch would probably go 5-4 to overturn though, especially if Kennedy stubs his toe on the morning or whatever.
Today is the Day Without Immigrants, a strike where workers and students don't show up to work/classes to show how many immigrants make up our daily life and how things would change if they all disappeared. Today I had off away on my schedule, but my boss sent me a text asking me to come in because a lot of people didn't show up.
Reminder that tomorrow, Feb 17, is the National General Strike. If you can, take off work, buy absolutely nothing, maybe volunteer or join a protest. Just do your part to stall the economy!
...
I was going to go to a locally owned and sourced restaurant with my mother for lunch, then take my wife out to support the liberal Hollywood elites and go to fist fight, but now I guess I'm not.
Thanks, Trump.
Edit: nope, "thanks Trump" just doesn't work. Gotta come up with something else...
In an interview he gave to the Christian Broadcasting Network, on the morning of January 27th, Trump explained that his goal was to end what he portrayed as the overly generous treatment of Muslims under the Obama Administration, at the expense of Christians (“I thought it was very, very unfair”), and to specifically “help” Christians going forward. [Judge] Brinkema noted, “That evening, the EO was signed.” She also quoted Rudy Giuliani telling Fox News that the “whole history” of the executive order began with the promise of a “Muslim ban,” followed by the linguistic wriggling necessary to get such a thing past the courts.
I think this might be the most direct example of a judge who quotes Trump, quotes Giuliani, and then rules against the Trump administration because the quotes show illegal intentions; I think the 9th Circuit was more bashful and indirect when it alluded to the same evidence
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
In an interview he gave to the Christian Broadcasting Network, on the morning of January 27th, Trump explained that his goal was to end what he portrayed as the overly generous treatment of Muslims under the Obama Administration, at the expense of Christians (“I thought it was very, very unfair”), and to specifically “help” Christians going forward. [Judge] Brinkema noted, “That evening, the EO was signed.” She also quoted Rudy Giuliani telling Fox News that the “whole history” of the executive order began with the promise of a “Muslim ban,” followed by the linguistic wriggling necessary to get such a thing past the courts.
I think this might be the most direct example of a judge who quotes Trump, quotes Giuliani, and then rules against the Trump administration because the quotes show illegal intentions; I think the 9th Circuit was more bashful and indirect when it alluded to the same evidence
The 9th was ruling on entirely different grounds. The case in the 9th was a stay on the basis that the EO damages the state. The ruling from the 3 judge panel was about removing the stay. The DOJ was fighting it based on a supposed national emergency. When the panel was asking about the statements made by the Trump admin, it was to determine whether there was a national emergency that prompted it and not some other reason for it. The statements made it pretty clear that it wasn't based on a national emergency.
Still, it's good. There are multiple cases tearing at this EO multiple ways. Which makes it very hard for the DOJ to support it when they have no evidence to back up the claims.
Don't see why. It doesn't sound too different from unpaid internships. Hay-oh!
Zython, you've got me confused with someone else. I hate unpaid internships just as much as the next guy.
And yeah, better oversight of work visas would be nice, but if we couldn't get that during a Democratic administration we're probably not going to get that from Trump. We might though, he's said some stuff about cracking down on abuse.
Are you kidding? Trump's administration loves that shit.
edit: Do not take anything he says that's sane seriously, he has a negative 1000 ranking in credibility on practically everything. It's what made him who he is today.
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BlackDragon480Bluster KerfuffleMaster of Windy ImportRegistered Userregular
In an interview he gave to the Christian Broadcasting Network, on the morning of January 27th, Trump explained that his goal was to end what he portrayed as the overly generous treatment of Muslims under the Obama Administration, at the expense of Christians (“I thought it was very, very unfair”), and to specifically “help” Christians going forward. [Judge] Brinkema noted, “That evening, the EO was signed.” She also quoted Rudy Giuliani telling Fox News that the “whole history” of the executive order began with the promise of a “Muslim ban,” followed by the linguistic wriggling necessary to get such a thing past the courts.
I think this might be the most direct example of a judge who quotes Trump, quotes Giuliani, and then rules against the Trump administration because the quotes show illegal intentions; I think the 9th Circuit was more bashful and indirect when it alluded to the same evidence
The 9th was ruling on entirely different grounds. The case in the 9th was a stay on the basis that the EO damages the state. The ruling from the 3 judge panel was about removing the stay. The DOJ was fighting it based on a supposed national emergency. When the panel was asking about the statements made by the Trump admin, it was to determine whether there was a national emergency that prompted it and not some other reason for it. The statements made it pretty clear that it wasn't based on a national emergency.
Still, it's good. There are multiple cases tearing at this EO multiple ways. Which makes it very hard for the DOJ to support it when they have no evidence to back up the claims.
And given the currently rumblings from the "illegal leaks", this sort of thing is definitely going to be needed, as they have to try and patch up and cover their ass even more on any proposed rewrites and roll-outs of similar EO's going forward.
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
I'm guessing ignorance or trying to look like they're doing something?
Because in what universe do they believe that the people who do the vetting aren't already looking at this stuff? What do they believe the investigators are doing all day long? Not doing research on the people applying to enter the country?
My more cynical self is that this is their way to discriminate without actually calling it discrimination. Instead of welcoming people with open arms, let's have them stew about for months, if not years, on end. Because reasons that have to do with never having learned how to share.
Goose that guy. Goose him in the goose with all of the force necessary that his goosing eyes pop.
All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
(AP) -- A draft memo obtained by The Associated Press outlines a Trump administration proposal under consideration to mobilize as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants. Millions of those who would be affected in 11 states live nowhere near the Mexico border.
The 11-page document calls for the unprecedented militarization of immigration enforcement as far north as Portland, Oregon, and as far east as New Orleans, Louisiana. If the proposal is implemented, governors in the affected states would have final approval on whether troops under their control participate.
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A draft memo obtained by The Associated Press outlines a Trump administration proposal under consideration to mobilize as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants. Millions of those who would be affected in 11 states live nowhere near the Mexico border.
The 11-page document calls for the unprecedented militarization of immigration enforcement as far north as Portland, Oregon, and as far east as New Orleans, Louisiana. If the proposal is implemented, governors in the affected states would have final approval on whether troops under their control participate.
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I don't like work visas. There's far, far too much potential for abuse. Just the thought of those kids coming here all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to see my native land and then getting forced to work in fucking 1800s conditions or be deported makes me see red.
This is good, but it's a bit confusing. If an order came from the top, wouldn't all offices be doing the same thing?
Also didn't they already go on record saying they performed their Not-Raids in New York?
This is not a reason to dislike visas, this is a reason to dislike our (lack of) enforcement regime. Realize that in your bad scenario it isn't the immigrant who has failed to live up to their promise to us. It is us who have failed to live up to our promise to them.
So in your book, how the fuck do immigrants ever enter the country?
Work visas are like the only long term visas we have because, big surprise, if you're going to stay here a while, you'll likely need to fuckin work.
Work visas are like the first step towards immigration and citizenship.
Without visas, that allow the visa holder to work, how the fuck do you expect anyone to ever immigrate?
The potential for abuse comes from the fact that the US is a worker-unfriendly country with policies that lead directly to exploitation.
I know multiple people who went on work visas to Australia and made significantly more than they could in the US. Higher cost of living, but waaaaay more than balanced out. Like, waiting tables came with a better salary/benefits package than any job I got before I got my Masters.
Work visas will lead to worker exploitation because we have weak to zero unionization and an aggressive policy of treating workers as disposable pieces that we unfortunately require briefly before we can expel them.
It's incredibly silly to focus on the work visas as the ultimate in worker-unfriendly policies in a country that's absolutely delighted to kill people in order to produce one more can of Spam this week. It's especially ridiculous to suggest that the real best policy to improve the lives of workers is to eliminate the possibility of anyone immigrating to the US who is not independently wealthy and able to absorb 5-10 years of not working.
We need to improve conditions for workers on visas because it is one element of the fight to improve conditions for all workers. We don't need to kick out all our recent PhDs.
The need to have a set bank balance and resulting expectation that they can pay their way if need be makes me think they might believe that it brings more money in than it sends out, so why not allow for more of them?
But that's just a gut reaction. Whenever something adjacent to money comes into view, I assume Trump is laser focused on that money.
Well, they didn't say it would be US inner cities, did they?
Don't see why. It doesn't sound too different from unpaid internships. Hay-oh!
Steam: pazython
The J1 Student Visa program has been open for decades in Ireland, and I have never heard a single Irish person who availed of it coming back with horror stories about their awful working conditions while they were there. For a start, Irish teenagers are pretty much as I expect American teenagers are. If you stick them in a sweatshop and tell them "Work 16 hours a day here or we'll deport you!" their reaction would be "Fuck this for a lark, I'm going home, suing you into the ground and coming back on a holiday visa to spend the settlement on a trip to Disneyland!"
The J1 Student Visa is mostly seen as a way of having an extra long holiday in the US, with the added bonus that you can work part time to get the cash you need to travel to all the places you'd love to see while you're there. It's also not that easy to afford, not just with the application fee, cost of travel and grabbing all the documentation you need, but also ensuring you have enough in your bank account to gain entry to the country. Working class kids aren't going to be able to avail of it. Hell, I couldn't afford it while I was in college, and I was a kid of a two income family and had a part time job to support myself. Despite the US throwing a couple of thousand extra of these visas at us this year, there was a dip in applications last year because a new rule was put in that you have to find a job before you travel, and most students wanted to plunge right into traveling and partying, then grab a job when they ran low on cash. There are other countries with similar visas - I know plenty of people who traveled to Australia on a visa that had the double advantage of giving you a much longer period in the country and not requiring you to be a full time student, just to be below the age of 24 I think. I'd have to check.
Ireland, on the other hand, doesn't have a visa like this, nor do the UK I believe. The closest we have is a student visa, which allows you to study full time and work part time in Ireland, with permission to work full time during holidays. This has lead to an entire industry in Ireland and the UK with fake colleges selling access to full time courses people don't have to turn up to and supplying fraudulent paperwork to the authorities on their behalf so they can work here, a situation that causes havok for genuine students coming to Ireland as well as massive headaches for teaching and administrative staff in genuine colleges.
A visa that allowed people to work in Ireland for a year or two would solve the problem, but it doesn't seem like it's going to happen.
J1 doesn't seem to have that problem.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
It does add some scummyness when the person can't really quit, but yeah there is equally scummy stuff going on all the time with internships for citizens as well. I did a 4 hour a week unpaid "volunteer" undergraduate internship at a hospital for a semester and was pretty shocked. Pretty much got there, was told we would be filing charts and pulling them 4 hours at a time, that they considered volunteering a commitment so we needed to make sure to call ahead if we'd miss times, that excessive absences or quitting would be noted on our record and could affect future employment opportunities there, etc. Basically was a total scam designed to replace minimum wage employees with wannabee nursing and med students desperate to build resumes, and later on in life I knew some admin commitee guys at a med school who basically said they only really consider direct patient care experience anyway, so alot of kids were basically being lied to that working these volunteer internships would help them get into school when it made no real difference and they would be better off just spending time shadowing or taking additional health field courses.
I only really have experience in the health field, but my tech field friends have told me such things are pretty much par for the course there, too.
There was an internship scheme set up over here to assist the long term unemployed find work. You got to work in a job and got a whole €50 extra a week added onto your unemployment benefits.
A couple of months into it one company advertised for a senior manager under the scheme.
The general merits of unpaid internships are not on-topic for this thread.
thats the plan
fuck, this is literally right up the road from the church where my mother led a Salvadorean service every week
Reminder that tomorrow, Feb 17, is the National General Strike. If you can, take off work, buy absolutely nothing, maybe volunteer or join a protest. Just do your part to stall the economy!
We need an "Awesome!" but in a sarcastic tone of voice button.
Does anyone with better American immigration law knowledge than me have any idea what Trump could do that would squeak past the courts but keep his "I hate immigrants and want them gone" thing going on? I'm assuming he'll at least make an attempt to listen to others on the subject this time. Besides Bannon I mean.
And yeah, better oversight of work visas would be nice, but if we couldn't get that during a Democratic administration we're probably not going to get that from Trump. We might though, he's said some stuff about cracking down on abuse.
At a minimum, he would probably have to drop the explicit list of countries & religious test (as these are outright precluded by both the constitution and existing law). He'd also have to somehow reign himself in from repeatedly declaring the EO to be a Muslim ban. If it is still challenged in court (and I imagine it will be), he will have to somehow defend the premise that lies as the foundation of these EOs - that somehow they keep the country safe.
I'm not sure Trump's definition of abuse is a sane one. Remember this is the man who's idea of bringing jobs back to the US involved "you all make too much money." Cracking down on "abuse" would probably end up with an EO about visa holders not being able to talk B's k or they get deported.
Like King George from Hamilton.
Awesome. Wow.
If he words it right, it'll still get shot down in the circuits most likely because there is far too much evidence that he's trying to make it a muslim ban. SCOTUS w/ Gorsch would probably go 5-4 to overturn though, especially if Kennedy stubs his toe on the morning or whatever.
...
I was going to go to a locally owned and sourced restaurant with my mother for lunch, then take my wife out to support the liberal Hollywood elites and go to fist fight, but now I guess I'm not.
Thanks, Trump.
Edit: nope, "thanks Trump" just doesn't work. Gotta come up with something else...
Got it.
Fuck You, Trump.
I think this might be the most direct example of a judge who quotes Trump, quotes Giuliani, and then rules against the Trump administration because the quotes show illegal intentions; I think the 9th Circuit was more bashful and indirect when it alluded to the same evidence
Now we have the first step in that happening.
The 9th was ruling on entirely different grounds. The case in the 9th was a stay on the basis that the EO damages the state. The ruling from the 3 judge panel was about removing the stay. The DOJ was fighting it based on a supposed national emergency. When the panel was asking about the statements made by the Trump admin, it was to determine whether there was a national emergency that prompted it and not some other reason for it. The statements made it pretty clear that it wasn't based on a national emergency.
Still, it's good. There are multiple cases tearing at this EO multiple ways. Which makes it very hard for the DOJ to support it when they have no evidence to back up the claims.
Are you kidding? Trump's administration loves that shit.
edit: Do not take anything he says that's sane seriously, he has a negative 1000 ranking in credibility on practically everything. It's what made him who he is today.
And given the currently rumblings from the "illegal leaks", this sort of thing is definitely going to be needed, as they have to try and patch up and cover their ass even more on any proposed rewrites and roll-outs of similar EO's going forward.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
I'm guessing ignorance or trying to look like they're doing something?
Because in what universe do they believe that the people who do the vetting aren't already looking at this stuff? What do they believe the investigators are doing all day long? Not doing research on the people applying to enter the country?
My more cynical self is that this is their way to discriminate without actually calling it discrimination. Instead of welcoming people with open arms, let's have them stew about for months, if not years, on end. Because reasons that have to do with never having learned how to share.
Goose that guy. Goose him in the goose with all of the force necessary that his goosing eyes pop.
Edit: Even as just a thing just being seriously considered, that is goddamned horrifying.
Edit2: Article is up:
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-02-17/trump-weighs-mobilizing-nat-guard-for-immigration-roundups
Shit just got real.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
I'm afraid to read into what this means from the implications, this shit is scary.
This is a breaking news story so salt grain.
Would really like the full list of states now.
~ Buckaroo Banzai